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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please.

In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up!

NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious.
Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action.
farvacola
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States18857 Posts
July 29 2013 20:52 GMT
#7181
I think there is actually something very interesting at work in the success of conservatism on the radio. I think it makes perfect sense given how radio works.
"when the Dead Kennedys found out they had skinhead fans, they literally wrote a song titled 'Nazi Punks Fuck Off'"
Klondikebar
Profile Joined October 2011
United States2227 Posts
July 29 2013 20:54 GMT
#7182
On July 30 2013 05:52 farvacola wrote:
I think there is actually something very interesting at work in the success of conservatism on the radio. I think it makes perfect sense given how radio works.


Care to elaborate? What do think makes it work so well?
#2throwed
farvacola
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States18857 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-07-29 21:45:39
July 29 2013 21:40 GMT
#7183
On July 30 2013 05:54 Klondikebar wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 30 2013 05:52 farvacola wrote:
I think there is actually something very interesting at work in the success of conservatism on the radio. I think it makes perfect sense given how radio works.


Care to elaborate? What do think makes it work so well?

In terms of reference, I'm thinking of a book from the 60's called Understanding Media: The Extensions of Man by Marshal McLuhan. In it, McLuhan outlines how the majority of media forms fall into either "hot" or "cold" categories; the temperature of a given form of media is related to how easy it is for an audience to find meaning or relate to what is being communicated in terms of participation. In other, oversimple words, "hot" means easy to participate, "cold" means requires active participation. Radio would be a very hot form of media because it does not rely on anything but direct, literal sound; there is very little need for interpretation when it comes to understanding what is being said. Television, on the other hand, throws sight and visual attention into to the equation, which complicates the transmission process, so it's more of a colder form of media.

That's a pretty shorthand summary of a somewhat outdated book, but I think it lines up with the success of conservatism on the radio in some ways. The essence of conservatism as a political ideology revolves around some sort of appeal to tradition, history, or the past; it is not a coincidence that the Tea Party is named as it is or that DC Republicans love Ronald Reagan so. Accordingly, simply saying "No" to new or progressive ideas is oftentimes the appropriate conservative message in the public political arena, and it is for this reason that a "hot" media form like radio, one that does not need to be complex nor constructed, does the ideology well. Conversely, liberal ideas tend to do better with more complex media forms like television or movies, because they not only have to affirm but also construct the supposed progressive path with which we are to follow.

Keep in mind that none of this is definite, I'm talking in a very general sense, and that there are exceptions to everything I said (conservatives do come up with new ideas, and there are definitely liberal panderings to base instincts and folks like FDR) but there are definitely places where the pattern lines up pretty nicely. Just watch MSNBC sometime and consider the weight of their "Lean Forward" commercials. They tend to ask way more of a viewer than anything Fox News ever puts on. Similarly, I don't think conservative punditry will ever lose radio while radio is alive (which, with satellite radio, might be a long time still). It is one of their best means of communicating ideas.
"when the Dead Kennedys found out they had skinhead fans, they literally wrote a song titled 'Nazi Punks Fuck Off'"
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
July 29 2013 23:41 GMT
#7184
Senior US government officials are to be briefed at the White House this week on the danger of an ice-free Arctic in the summer within two years.

The meeting, hosted by the Office of Science and Technology Policy within the Executive Office of the President at the White House, is being organised by the Joint Office for Science Support (JOSS) of the University Corporation for Atmospheric Research (UCAR) on behalf of the Interagency Arctic Research Policy Committee (IARPC). The IARPC, charged with coordinating federal research on the Arctic Ocean, is chaired by the National Science Foundation, and includes among its members Nasa, the US Department of Homeland Security and the Pentagon.

This is the latest indication that US officials are increasingly concerned about the international and domestic security implications of climate change.

Senior scientists advising the US government at the meeting include 10 Arctic specialists, including marine scientist Prof Carlos Duarte, director of the Oceans Institute at the University of Western Australia.


Source
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
Klondikebar
Profile Joined October 2011
United States2227 Posts
July 29 2013 23:47 GMT
#7185
On July 30 2013 06:40 farvacola wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 30 2013 05:54 Klondikebar wrote:
On July 30 2013 05:52 farvacola wrote:
I think there is actually something very interesting at work in the success of conservatism on the radio. I think it makes perfect sense given how radio works.


Care to elaborate? What do think makes it work so well?

In terms of reference, I'm thinking of a book from the 60's called Understanding Media: The Extensions of Man by Marshal McLuhan. In it, McLuhan outlines how the majority of media forms fall into either "hot" or "cold" categories; the temperature of a given form of media is related to how easy it is for an audience to find meaning or relate to what is being communicated in terms of participation. In other, oversimple words, "hot" means easy to participate, "cold" means requires active participation. Radio would be a very hot form of media because it does not rely on anything but direct, literal sound; there is very little need for interpretation when it comes to understanding what is being said. Television, on the other hand, throws sight and visual attention into to the equation, which complicates the transmission process, so it's more of a colder form of media.

That's a pretty shorthand summary of a somewhat outdated book, but I think it lines up with the success of conservatism on the radio in some ways. The essence of conservatism as a political ideology revolves around some sort of appeal to tradition, history, or the past; it is not a coincidence that the Tea Party is named as it is or that DC Republicans love Ronald Reagan so. Accordingly, simply saying "No" to new or progressive ideas is oftentimes the appropriate conservative message in the public political arena, and it is for this reason that a "hot" media form like radio, one that does not need to be complex nor constructed, does the ideology well. Conversely, liberal ideas tend to do better with more complex media forms like television or movies, because they not only have to affirm but also construct the supposed progressive path with which we are to follow.

Keep in mind that none of this is definite, I'm talking in a very general sense, and that there are exceptions to everything I said (conservatives do come up with new ideas, and there are definitely liberal panderings to base instincts and folks like FDR) but there are definitely places where the pattern lines up pretty nicely. Just watch MSNBC sometime and consider the weight of their "Lean Forward" commercials. They tend to ask way more of a viewer than anything Fox News ever puts on. Similarly, I don't think conservative punditry will ever lose radio while radio is alive (which, with satellite radio, might be a long time still). It is one of their best means of communicating ideas.


Ah, that's interesting. Thank you for explaining.
#2throwed
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
July 30 2013 04:39 GMT
#7186
Huge explosion reported in Florida at a Propane Plant

"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
aksfjh
Profile Joined November 2010
United States4853 Posts
July 30 2013 04:46 GMT
#7187
On July 30 2013 13:39 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
Huge explosion reported in Florida at a Propane Plant

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V3QPzofR3xY

I was expecting an explosion like that West, Texas one.
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
July 30 2013 04:51 GMT
#7188
On July 30 2013 13:46 aksfjh wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 30 2013 13:39 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
Huge explosion reported in Florida at a Propane Plant

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V3QPzofR3xY

I was expecting an explosion like that West, Texas one.


They are saying that 10 employees are unaccounted for and that multiple injured. 1 mile evacuation zone.
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
July 30 2013 05:01 GMT
#7189
CIA officials often assert that while the spy agency's failures are known, its successes are hidden. But the clandestine organization celebrated for finding Osama bin Laden has been viewed by many of its own people as a place beset by bad management, where misjudgments by senior officials go unpunished, according to internal CIA documents and interviews with more than 20 former officers.

Fifty-five percent of respondents to a 2009 agency-wide survey who said they were resigning or thinking about it cited poor management as the main reason, according to a 2010 report on retention by the agency's internal watchdog that mirrored the findings of a 2005 report. Although the CIA's overall rate of employee turnover is unusually low, the report cited "challenges" in the retention of officers with unique and crucial skills, such as field operatives.

The heavily redacted, unclassified report by the CIA's inspector general was turned over to the Los Angeles Times/Tribune Washington Bureau recently, two years after a request was filed under the Freedom of Information Act. Retired CIA officers who talk regularly with former colleagues say little has changed. CIA employees are generally prohibited from speaking to the news media and are grilled during periodic polygraph exams about any contacts with reporters.

"Perceptions of poor management, and a lack of accountability for poor management, comprised five of the top 10 reasons why people leave or consider leaving CIA and were the most frequent topic of concern among those who volunteered comments," the inspector general's report says.

CIA employees complained of "poor first-line supervision, lack of communication about work-related matters and lack of support for prudent risk taking," the report says.

The raw numbers in the survey were blacked out, but CIA human resources officials said in interviews that those who were considering leaving represented about 12% of the respondents. Other internal surveys suggest that most CIA employees have confidence in their managers, the officials asserted — but they declined to release the results.

The officials acknowledged that the inspector general's report identified long-standing concerns about the CIA's culture. In response, they say, they have placed new emphasis on training and evaluating managers. They touted three leadership courses that are required for senior officials as a condition of promotion, all of which were started before the report.

"I really think you would see a different result if the [inspector general] would come back and ask those same questions," said John Pereira, the CIA's chief of corporate learning.

The inspector general's report concluded, however, that "none of these initiatives include a mechanism for improving accountability for poor management."

Seven of 19 reviews of the CIA posted from 2010 to 2012 on Glassdoor, a website that allows employees to review their workplaces anonymously, cite bad management.


Source
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
July 30 2013 06:09 GMT
#7190
The East Baton Rouge sheriff who used Louisiana's defunct anti-sodomy law to arrest a dozen gay men since 2011 now says he didn't know the law was invalidated by the Supreme Court.

"To our knowledge, the Sheriff’s office was never contacted or told that the law was not enforceable or prosecutable," a statement from the Sheriff's Office claims. It was issued Sunday after The Advocate newspaper in Louisiana exposed the illegal undercover sting operation.

That explanation doesn't appear to satisfy Metro Councilman John Delgado.

“Does he know that slavery is no longer around?” an outraged Delgado told The Advocate newspaper in Louisiana. “Does he know that we have cars and no longer horse and buggies?”

The newspaper now reports that Delgado is demanding apologies be issued to the 12 men who were arrested, one as recent as this month.

According to local LGBT rights group Capital City Alliance, the sheriff has committed to no longer enforcing the obsolete law and will work with state legislators to have it removed from the books.

At first, a spokesman for Sheriff Sid J. Gautreaux told the newspaper that it didn't matter the Supreme Court ruled anti-sodomy laws unconstitutional a decade ago, it's still on the books in Louisiana, so they were still arresting men for it.


Source
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
Klondikebar
Profile Joined October 2011
United States2227 Posts
July 30 2013 13:49 GMT
#7191
{CC}Stealth are you a bot? You managed to somehow keep up with a 24 hour news cycle...it's impressive albeit a but inhuman.

Also, of course he'll claim ignorance. It's the only thing he can do. Although he clearly doesn't understand how legislative, executive, and judicial branches differ in function. The legislative branch can write whatever laws it wants. They can put a law on the books that says all brunettes need to be in concentration camps. But when the judicial branch says it's a bad law, the executive branch isn't allowed to enforce it. It's like he didn't even graduate highschool...

And I know it's the deep south, but I guarantee you his higher ups are riding his ass *snicker* because the threat of lawsuits is probably pretty severe right now. And they'd lose badly.
#2throwed
JonnyBNoHo
Profile Joined July 2011
United States6277 Posts
July 30 2013 16:19 GMT
#7192
Doctors Increasingly Ignore Evidence In Treating Back Pain

The misery of low back pain often drives people to the doctor to seek relief. But doctors are doing a pretty miserable job of treating back pain, a study finds.

Physicians are increasingly prescribing expensive scans, narcotic painkillers and other treatments that don't help in most cases, and can make things a lot worse. Since 1 in 10 of all primary care visits are for low back pain, this is no small matter.

What does help? Some ibuprofen or other over-the-counter painkiller, and maybe some physical therapy. That's the evidence-based protocol. With that regimen, most people's back pain goes away within three months.

But when researchers at Beth Israel Deaconess Medical Center in Boston looked at records of 23,918 doctor visits for simple back pain between 1999 and 2010, they found that doctors have actually been getting worse at prescribing scientifically based treatments.

Doctors were recommending NSAID pain relievers and acetaminophen less often. Instead, they were increasingly prescribing prescription opioids like OxyContin, with use rising from 19 percent of cases to 29 percent. Over-the-counter painkiller use declined from 37 percent to 25 percent. Other studies have found that opioids help only slightly with acute back pain and are worthless for treating chronic back pain. ...

Link

Is anyone surprised?
DoubleReed
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United States4130 Posts
July 30 2013 16:28 GMT
#7193
An interesting article about the right wing's ties to get rich quick schemes and scams.

In 2007, I signed on to the email lists of several influential magazines on the right, among them Townhall, which operates under the auspices of evangelical Stuart Epperson’s Salem Communications; Newsmax, the organ more responsible than any other for drumming up the hysteria that culminated in the impeachment of Bill Clinton; and Human Events, one of Ronald Reagan’s favorite publications. The exercise turned out to be far more revealing than I expected. Via the battery of promotional appeals that overran my email inbox, I mainlined a right-wing id that was invisible to readers who encounter conservative opinion at face value.

Subscriber lists to ideological organs are pure gold to the third-party interests who rent them as catchments for potential customers. Who better suits a marketing strategy than a group that voluntarily organizes itself according to their most passionately shared beliefs? That’s why, for instance, the other day I (and probably you) got an advertisement by way of liberal magazine The American Prospect seeking donations to Mercy Corps, a charity that helps starving children in the Third World. But back when I was getting emails every day from Newsmax and Townhall, the come-ons were a little bit different.


The Long Con
aksfjh
Profile Joined November 2010
United States4853 Posts
July 30 2013 16:57 GMT
#7194
On July 31 2013 01:19 JonnyBNoHo wrote:
Show nested quote +
Doctors Increasingly Ignore Evidence In Treating Back Pain

The misery of low back pain often drives people to the doctor to seek relief. But doctors are doing a pretty miserable job of treating back pain, a study finds.

Physicians are increasingly prescribing expensive scans, narcotic painkillers and other treatments that don't help in most cases, and can make things a lot worse. Since 1 in 10 of all primary care visits are for low back pain, this is no small matter.

What does help? Some ibuprofen or other over-the-counter painkiller, and maybe some physical therapy. That's the evidence-based protocol. With that regimen, most people's back pain goes away within three months.

But when researchers at Beth Israel Deaconess Medical Center in Boston looked at records of 23,918 doctor visits for simple back pain between 1999 and 2010, they found that doctors have actually been getting worse at prescribing scientifically based treatments.

Doctors were recommending NSAID pain relievers and acetaminophen less often. Instead, they were increasingly prescribing prescription opioids like OxyContin, with use rising from 19 percent of cases to 29 percent. Over-the-counter painkiller use declined from 37 percent to 25 percent. Other studies have found that opioids help only slightly with acute back pain and are worthless for treating chronic back pain. ...

Link

Is anyone surprised?

Not that surprised. Doctors aren't infallible. I'm sure there's some frustration with patient compliance/adherence and PT. It's much easier to throw technology at a problem and give somebody pills instead of telling them they need to do 30 minutes of a specific set of exercises daily. Especially when the pills will give them instant relief and the PT may take months to materialize any relief.
Klondikebar
Profile Joined October 2011
United States2227 Posts
July 30 2013 17:01 GMT
#7195
On July 31 2013 01:19 JonnyBNoHo wrote:
Show nested quote +
Doctors Increasingly Ignore Evidence In Treating Back Pain

The misery of low back pain often drives people to the doctor to seek relief. But doctors are doing a pretty miserable job of treating back pain, a study finds.

Physicians are increasingly prescribing expensive scans, narcotic painkillers and other treatments that don't help in most cases, and can make things a lot worse. Since 1 in 10 of all primary care visits are for low back pain, this is no small matter.

What does help? Some ibuprofen or other over-the-counter painkiller, and maybe some physical therapy. That's the evidence-based protocol. With that regimen, most people's back pain goes away within three months.

But when researchers at Beth Israel Deaconess Medical Center in Boston looked at records of 23,918 doctor visits for simple back pain between 1999 and 2010, they found that doctors have actually been getting worse at prescribing scientifically based treatments.

Doctors were recommending NSAID pain relievers and acetaminophen less often. Instead, they were increasingly prescribing prescription opioids like OxyContin, with use rising from 19 percent of cases to 29 percent. Over-the-counter painkiller use declined from 37 percent to 25 percent. Other studies have found that opioids help only slightly with acute back pain and are worthless for treating chronic back pain. ...

Link

Is anyone surprised?


Well long term tylenol use is really damaging to your liver. It's awesome and cheap but it is actually rougher than alcohol, so doctors have started to shy away from it. It's great for a one time headache. For three months of treatment? Nuh-uh.

Physical therapy is also crazy expensive, insurance is a bitch about paying for it, and most patients don't stick with it anyway. Doctors really can't be arsed to fight with an insurance company on behalf of their patient only to have their patient wuss out halfway through and not really get any better.

Also, it's actually REALLY effing hard to get addicted to opioids. You have to have an addictive personality otherwise you'd just end up puking your guts out taking enough to cause an addiction. The people who are addicted to them are trainwrecks, but they're rare. Aside from constipation, they don't have many nasty side effects (the variants that come without tylenol in them).

Back pain is this incredibly nebulous thing that's super hard to diagnose (which is why drug shoppers cite it so often) and a lot of people will complain about it just cause they slept on their back funny. Throw em 4 OxyContin, let em be giggly for a couple of hours, most of them won't even remember they complained about it. If it's not better in a couple days, yeah move on to something more serious. But when a patient complains about pain you're not allowed to say "I think you're lying or wrong." You have to take it at face value. So you toss em something quick, easy, and relatively harm free.

I'm quite certain there's some gaming the system going on here. I'm just offering the other side of the story.
#2throwed
Mohdoo
Profile Joined August 2007
United States15743 Posts
July 30 2013 17:02 GMT
#7196
On July 31 2013 01:19 JonnyBNoHo wrote:
Show nested quote +
Doctors Increasingly Ignore Evidence In Treating Back Pain

The misery of low back pain often drives people to the doctor to seek relief. But doctors are doing a pretty miserable job of treating back pain, a study finds.

Physicians are increasingly prescribing expensive scans, narcotic painkillers and other treatments that don't help in most cases, and can make things a lot worse. Since 1 in 10 of all primary care visits are for low back pain, this is no small matter.

What does help? Some ibuprofen or other over-the-counter painkiller, and maybe some physical therapy. That's the evidence-based protocol. With that regimen, most people's back pain goes away within three months.

But when researchers at Beth Israel Deaconess Medical Center in Boston looked at records of 23,918 doctor visits for simple back pain between 1999 and 2010, they found that doctors have actually been getting worse at prescribing scientifically based treatments.

Doctors were recommending NSAID pain relievers and acetaminophen less often. Instead, they were increasingly prescribing prescription opioids like OxyContin, with use rising from 19 percent of cases to 29 percent. Over-the-counter painkiller use declined from 37 percent to 25 percent. Other studies have found that opioids help only slightly with acute back pain and are worthless for treating chronic back pain. ...

Link

Is anyone surprised?


Major in a subject where there are a lot of pre-med students and it'll make sense. The common perception of doctors is a giant lie.
farvacola
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States18857 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-07-30 17:04:31
July 30 2013 17:03 GMT
#7197
Methadone is highly addictive, and is an opioid. If you're referencing something more like tramadol, that makes more sense, but opioids in general can vary widely. Also Mohdoo is on point. Doctors are a part of the problem as much as they are victims of it.
"when the Dead Kennedys found out they had skinhead fans, they literally wrote a song titled 'Nazi Punks Fuck Off'"
Klondikebar
Profile Joined October 2011
United States2227 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-07-30 17:12:43
July 30 2013 17:11 GMT
#7198
On July 31 2013 02:03 farvacola wrote:
Methadone is highly addictive, and is an opioid. If you're referencing something more like tramadol, that makes more sense, but opioids in general can vary widely. Also Mohdoo is on point. Doctors are a part of the problem as much as they are victims of it.


Well you have a massive sampling problem with Methadone. It's most common use is treating more severe drug addiction...so it's gonna look like it has a massive addiction rate. You're giving it to people who have addictive personalities almost exclusively.
#2throwed
Sermokala
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States14110 Posts
July 30 2013 17:22 GMT
#7199
On July 30 2013 22:49 Klondikebar wrote:
{CC}Stealth are you a bot? You managed to somehow keep up with a 24 hour news cycle...it's impressive albeit a but inhuman.

Also, of course he'll claim ignorance. It's the only thing he can do. Although he clearly doesn't understand how legislative, executive, and judicial branches differ in function. The legislative branch can write whatever laws it wants. They can put a law on the books that says all brunettes need to be in concentration camps. But when the judicial branch says it's a bad law, the executive branch isn't allowed to enforce it. It's like he didn't even graduate highschool...

And I know it's the deep south, but I guarantee you his higher ups are riding his ass *snicker* because the threat of lawsuits is probably pretty severe right now. And they'd lose badly.

You're an ass. The guys a country sheriff and he probably has a ton of work on his desk every day. His budget is constantly cut and he has to make do with inept cops who can't get a better job working for a city anywhere else and probably didn't graduate high school. Do you know how much a country cop even gets paid? Around where I live its $13 an hour to put your life on the line and it can't be any higher in some poor state in the south. If no one is there to tell him to stop doing something then how the hell is he suppose to know to stop doing it? Theres no reason for him to keep up on national news when he is intently focused on the local scene. He has no responsibility tword making the law or revising it in any way. its the fault of whoever is the country commissioner for not updating the laws on the books like he is suppose to.

You have no idea how police works and should have more respect for the people who protect you.
A wise man will say that he knows nothing. We're gona party like its 2752 Hail Dark Brandon
Klondikebar
Profile Joined October 2011
United States2227 Posts
July 30 2013 17:28 GMT
#7200
On July 31 2013 02:22 Sermokala wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 30 2013 22:49 Klondikebar wrote:
{CC}Stealth are you a bot? You managed to somehow keep up with a 24 hour news cycle...it's impressive albeit a but inhuman.

Also, of course he'll claim ignorance. It's the only thing he can do. Although he clearly doesn't understand how legislative, executive, and judicial branches differ in function. The legislative branch can write whatever laws it wants. They can put a law on the books that says all brunettes need to be in concentration camps. But when the judicial branch says it's a bad law, the executive branch isn't allowed to enforce it. It's like he didn't even graduate highschool...

And I know it's the deep south, but I guarantee you his higher ups are riding his ass *snicker* because the threat of lawsuits is probably pretty severe right now. And they'd lose badly.

You're an ass. The guys a country sheriff and he probably has a ton of work on his desk every day. His budget is constantly cut and he has to make do with inept cops who can't get a better job working for a city anywhere else and probably didn't graduate high school. Do you know how much a country cop even gets paid? Around where I live its $13 an hour to put your life on the line and it can't be any higher in some poor state in the south. If no one is there to tell him to stop doing something then how the hell is he suppose to know to stop doing it? Theres no reason for him to keep up on national news when he is intently focused on the local scene. He has no responsibility tword making the law or revising it in any way. its the fault of whoever is the country commissioner for not updating the laws on the books like he is suppose to.

You have no idea how police works and should have more respect for the people who protect you.


Cop who enforces the law doesn't know what the laws are. And google doesn't exist in his office. Yeah, I'm the ass.
#2throwed
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