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US Politics Mega-thread - Page 2849

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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please.

In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up!

NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious.
Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action.
GreenHorizons
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States23201 Posts
February 05 2016 04:45 GMT
#56961
On February 05 2016 13:30 ticklishmusic wrote:
oh jeez, sanders' campaign manager needs to go back into his little closet or whatever, he's making his candidate look bad


Podesta should just quit if Hillary is trying to convince us corporate lobbyists aren't influencing her campaign.

Not a big fan of Tad either though.
"People like to look at history and think 'If that was me back then, I would have...' We're living through history, and the truth is, whatever you are doing now is probably what you would have done then" "Scratch a Liberal..."
Souma
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
2nd Worst City in CA8938 Posts
February 05 2016 04:49 GMT
#56962
Not that it matters, but I found this pretty hilarious:

Writer
Doublemint
Profile Joined July 2011
Austria8497 Posts
February 05 2016 05:03 GMT
#56963
On February 05 2016 13:30 Souma wrote:
Hillary is wearing an executioner's mask.

That was a very powerful moment from Bernie, but I actually agree more with Hillary on that front.


I agree. once again sanders has the very principled approach, clear cut values and message. hillary is, let's call it open to the idea of state executions. or just ok with the status quo and does not want to waste time and political resources fighting for something that's not a high priority for her.

just like on countless other issues, she is the pragmatist. he is the idealist.
oneofthem
Profile Blog Joined November 2005
Cayman Islands24199 Posts
February 05 2016 05:08 GMT
#56964
this hillary lobbyist stuff is mostly applicable for someone on the rise. question is, ehat would she do after she gets the throne. based on her grand ego and determination i think hillary may well be an unlikely reformer. she has enough money now she needs the history books
We have fed the heart on fantasies, the heart's grown brutal from the fare, more substance in our enmities than in our love
Souma
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
2nd Worst City in CA8938 Posts
February 05 2016 05:25 GMT
#56965
On February 05 2016 14:03 Doublemint wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 05 2016 13:30 Souma wrote:
Hillary is wearing an executioner's mask.

That was a very powerful moment from Bernie, but I actually agree more with Hillary on that front.


I agree. once again sanders has the very principled approach, clear cut values and message. hillary is, let's call it open to the idea of state executions. or just ok with the status quo and does not want to waste time and political resources fighting for something that's not a high priority for her.

just like on countless other issues, she is the pragmatist. he is the idealist.

Well, no, I was talking about the fact that states need to be required to present a higher degree of evidence before they can execute people (video or bust). I'd go even further and say that executions should be limited to the absolute worst kinds of murderers (serial killers/mass murderers) and that people who kill one or two people should just be jailed.
Writer
Doublemint
Profile Joined July 2011
Austria8497 Posts
February 05 2016 05:28 GMT
#56966
well. ok then
Introvert
Profile Joined April 2011
United States4742 Posts
February 05 2016 05:57 GMT
#56967
Can you go higher than "beyond a reasonable doubt?"
"It is therefore only at the birth of a society that one can be completely logical in the laws. When you see a people enjoying this advantage, do not hasten to conclude that it is wise; think rather that it is young." -Alexis de Tocqueville
acker
Profile Joined September 2010
United States2958 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-02-05 06:32:53
February 05 2016 06:30 GMT
#56968
On February 05 2016 14:57 Introvert wrote:
Can you go higher than "beyond a reasonable doubt?"


"Beyond a shadow of a doubt" is a standard of evidence unto itself.

That said, "he's a nigger" was once evidence beyond question. The same was true for witness testimony, bite marks, hair microscopy, and bullet forensics.
KwarK
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
United States42578 Posts
February 05 2016 06:51 GMT
#56969
On February 05 2016 14:57 Introvert wrote:
Can you go higher than "beyond a reasonable doubt?"

Yes. The people who you ask whether or not they have a doubt are extremely fallible. The basic standard of "beyond any informed doubt" would be higher. Experts, forensics, police testimony, eyewitness testimony, all extremely fallible. If someone with a proper understanding of the limitations of evidence believes the weight of evidence is sufficient that's one thing, if the average layman who thinks it's like a tv show does, that's quite another.
ModeratorThe angels have the phone box
Introvert
Profile Joined April 2011
United States4742 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-02-05 07:05:25
February 05 2016 06:54 GMT
#56970
Well obviously you can invent one. I meant does it exist legally. Because saying you need some more random evidence ("video or bust") doesn't make much sense to me. You don't imprison people because they probably-but-I'm not-sure are murderers.

Basically if you have the evidence to convict I'd say you have the evidence to go for death row. (i.e., they are guilty, so now you can figure out which sentencing laws apply).
"It is therefore only at the birth of a society that one can be completely logical in the laws. When you see a people enjoying this advantage, do not hasten to conclude that it is wise; think rather that it is young." -Alexis de Tocqueville
IgnE
Profile Joined November 2010
United States7681 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-02-05 07:06:52
February 05 2016 07:05 GMT
#56971
On February 05 2016 14:08 oneofthem wrote:
this hillary lobbyist stuff is mostly applicable for someone on the rise. question is, ehat would she do after she gets the throne. based on her grand ego and determination i think hillary may well be an unlikely reformer. she has enough money now she needs the history books


Obama is probably more progressive than her (in his personal opinions), and he had an easy shot at the history books and look at how little he's little accomplished. He's basically Professorial Clinton, and did what Clintons do.

On February 05 2016 12:44 Plansix wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 05 2016 12:34 Acrofales wrote:
The email issue is really dumb.

If they dig long enough, they will find a crime...where no one was harmed and its super likely that Hilary isn't the only one doing it. I don't know how the Republican's think that is going to play in the general, but it has been super obvious that they don't give a fuck about the emails, its all about throwing shade. Literally admitted in on a talk show.


http://www.nytimes.com/2016/02/05/us/politics/state-dept-classified-data-found-ex-secretaries-personal-email-john-kerry-condeleezza-rice-colin-powell.html

Yes. They found someone else that did it.
The unrealistic sound of these propositions is indicative, not of their utopian character, but of the strength of the forces which prevent their realization.
Doublemint
Profile Joined July 2011
Austria8497 Posts
February 05 2016 08:32 GMT
#56972
that's another point in the story telling me that the email-scandal will go poof. I mean, who in their right mind would go after all these other ex-secretaries?

it's kinda like if Obama all of a sudden would want Bush (and Rumsfeld) put on the stand in the Hague for god knows what.
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
February 05 2016 10:12 GMT
#56973
U.S. President Barack Obama will launch a long-shot bid next week to impose a $10-a-barrel tax on crude oil that would fund the overhaul of the nation's aging transportation infrastructure, the White House said Thursday.

The proposed fee, which would be paid by oil companies and phased in over five years, was quickly met with scorn by lawmakers in the Republican-controlled Congress.

In the last year of his presidency, Obama has said the country must stop subsidizing the "dirty" fossil fuels of the past and focus on clean, renewable fuels that do not exacerbate climate change.

"By placing a fee on oil, the President's plan creates a clear incentive for private sector innovation to reduce our reliance on oil and at the same time invests in clean energy technologies that will power our future," the White House said in a statement.

Set to be officially announced in Obama's fiscal 2017 budget plan on Tuesday, the fee would provide nearly $20 billion a year to help expand transit systems across the country and more than $2 billion a year to support the research and development of self-driving vehicles and other low-carbon technologies.


Source
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
DickMcFanny
Profile Blog Joined September 2015
Ireland1076 Posts
February 05 2016 12:05 GMT
#56974
Not going to get through, but nice notion anyway.
| (• ◡•)|╯ ╰(❍ᴥ❍ʋ)
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
February 05 2016 12:15 GMT
#56975
So CNN has removed the video of Clinton being booed at the debate, first they just muted the response. Anyways...

Swiss bank Julius Baer, facing a criminal charge, has agreed to pay $547 million and cooperate for three years with American authorities to shut down accounts that enabled wealthy Americans to evade taxes, authorities announced Thursday.

Before lawyers for the bank appeared in Manhattan federal court to confirm a non-prosecution deal, two of its former bankers pleaded guilty to a conspiracy charge and agreed to cooperate. Cooperation for the bankers was expected to bring leniency at sentencing on a charge that carries a potential penalty of five years in prison.

The bank's agreement calls for it to share documents and provide witnesses at any U.S. court proceedings until February 2019. The bank will forfeit $547 million in penalties and restitution within a week and close any U.S. accounts established to evade taxes. In return, U.S. authorities will defer a conspiracy charge against the bank with the expectation that it will be dropped after three years. A bank lawyer pleaded not guilty to the charge.

"Bank Julius Baer not only turned a blind eye to tax avoiders but actually conspired with them to break the law," U.S. Attorney Preet Bharara said in a release.

Internal Revenue Service chief Richard Weber said the court appearances send "a strong message to the international banking community as well as U.S. taxpayers who think they can outsmart the system by hiding their money in these international banks."

Prosecutors said the bank from at least the 1990s through 2009 helped many of its U.S. taxpayer clients evade taxes by filing false federal tax returns with the IRS and otherwise hide accounts at the bank from the agency.


Source
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
DickMcFanny
Profile Blog Joined September 2015
Ireland1076 Posts
February 05 2016 13:25 GMT
#56976
When was she booed? After she said Bernie's campaign was a smear campaign?

The whole interview seemed a bit biased, expected more of Rachel Maddow.
| (• ◡•)|╯ ╰(❍ᴥ❍ʋ)
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
February 05 2016 14:01 GMT
#56977
The U.S. economy added just 151,000 jobs in January while unemployment dropped slightly, to 4.9 percent, according to the latest figures from the Bureau of Labor Statistics.

Economists had expected to see about 190,000 new jobs.

The unemployment rate, which has held steady at 5 percent the past few months, "changed little," the BLS notes, dropping to 4.9 percent. It's the first time unemployment has dropped below 5 percent since the recession.

The more robust job growth during the end of 2015 was also revised downward overall: November's job gains were changed from 252,000 to 280,000, the BLS says, and in December, the economy added 262,000 new jobs, rather than 292,000.


Source
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
GreenHorizons
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States23201 Posts
February 05 2016 14:58 GMT
#56978
Democratic presidential hopeful Bernie Sanders has dramatically cut into the nationwide lead of primary rival Hillary Clinton, according to a new Quinnipiac University poll.

The poll released Friday finds Clinton leading the race with 44 percent support, compared to 42 percent support for Sanders, within the survey's margin of error.
The last iteration of the poll in December had Clinton leading Sanders nationwide by a 61-30 point margin.

“Democrats nationwide are feeling the Bern as Sen. Bernie Sanders closes a 31-point gap to tie Secretary Hillary Clinton,” said Tim Malloy, assistant director of the Quinnipiac University Poll.

The poll also finds that Sanders matches up better with top Republican primary candidates than Clinton.


Source

It's just one national poll but that's a 29 point swing in the same poll. The inevitability and electability arguments are struggling.
"People like to look at history and think 'If that was me back then, I would have...' We're living through history, and the truth is, whatever you are doing now is probably what you would have done then" "Scratch a Liberal..."
The_Templar
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
your Country52797 Posts
February 05 2016 14:59 GMT
#56979
That poll is really weird, and I'm not sure what to take from it yet.
Moderatorshe/her
TL+ Member
GreenHorizons
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States23201 Posts
February 05 2016 15:19 GMT
#56980
On February 05 2016 23:59 The_Templar wrote:
That poll is really weird, and I'm not sure what to take from it yet.


I think the fair takeaway is what I said. That the inevitability and electability arguments are struggling. Polls for weeks have shown that Sanders matches up better vs Republicans and it deals another blow to the idea that Bernie doesn't have wide enough appeal to beat her outside of the whitest states.

If Hillary's more frequent Spanish tweets are any indication I suspect their own data in NV is showing what I mentioned before, that her support in Hispanic communities isn't as strong as the media suggests.

"People like to look at history and think 'If that was me back then, I would have...' We're living through history, and the truth is, whatever you are doing now is probably what you would have done then" "Scratch a Liberal..."
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