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On February 03 2016 11:27 cLutZ wrote:
The thing is that it still doesn't seem like Bernie is serious, and the media is picking up on it. Otherwise all the media would be running "U.S.S.A. ?!" Headlines.
What does USSA stand for?
On February 03 2016 11:31 KwarK wrote:
I saw a U.S.S.A. bumper sticker a few days ago and wanted to stop the guy and explain to him that the R in USSR does not stand for Russia and that even if it did USSA would be Union of Socialist Soviet Americas which would be dumb as hell and that if the USA became a Soviet state it would be called the USSR also.
Alas he drove off into the distance.
Oh you already did that one.
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On February 03 2016 12:31 GoTuNk! wrote:Show nested quote +On February 03 2016 11:27 Advantageous wrote:
I'm just surprised there's actually people here on TL that is opposed to Sanders winning lol. Thought everyone on TL would be progressive and looking forward to Sanders missing Hilary by a small margin... Not gonna defend rednecks, but your intelectual high-horse is disgusting. You are basically implying "smart" people are supposed to be Welfare state fans and support a self procclaimed socialist. Jesus.
If you don't want to be talked down to come up on the high horse with me.
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Presumably it's "United Socialist States of America." Or just a play on "U.S.A." I don't see why the R has to stay put.
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On February 03 2016 11:35 Danglars wrote:Show nested quote +On February 03 2016 11:27 Advantageous wrote:
I'm just surprised there's actually people here on TL that is opposed to Sanders winning lol. Thought everyone on TL would be progressive and looking forward to Sanders missing Hilary by a small margin... It's just too diverse a community. The notable lack is actual Hillary supporters not well, we can't have Trump or Cruz, and Bernie just doesn't stand a chance ... so I guess my man woman is Hillary. I literally haven't heard a single positive 'She's the best person for the job, her record shows she can lead, her scandals and corruption have been overblown, she's my girl!'
Eh I think it's fair to say I'm a Hillary supporter. The white papers her campaign has been putting out are super detailed and impressive. She's probably the most knowledgeable candidate on policy in the race right now by a large margin.
If you take her plan for regulating Wall Street for example, it's far more nuanced than Bernie's. One interesting idea in her plan is to tax banks based upon how risky their investments are. Basically banks would have to pay a fee if they take on high amounts of debt. This approach discourages banks from getting too large, and from making risky bets that could go bad and require a government bailout. The extra revenue wouldn't hurt either.
On the other hand, Bernie's plan is focused on having the government break up banks that are "too big to fail." This approach makes for much pithier soundbites, but it ignores the fact that the likelihood of a bailout being necessary isn't just a function of the size an institution, but how risky its investments have been.
And this is just one example - Hillary's campaign has released a couple dozen detailed policy papers like this.
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On February 03 2016 13:02 Mercy13 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 03 2016 11:35 Danglars wrote:On February 03 2016 11:27 Advantageous wrote:
I'm just surprised there's actually people here on TL that is opposed to Sanders winning lol. Thought everyone on TL would be progressive and looking forward to Sanders missing Hilary by a small margin... It's just too diverse a community. The notable lack is actual Hillary supporters not well, we can't have Trump or Cruz, and Bernie just doesn't stand a chance ... so I guess my man woman is Hillary. I literally haven't heard a single positive 'She's the best person for the job, her record shows she can lead, her scandals and corruption have been overblown, she's my girl!' Eh I think it's fair to say I'm a Hillary supporter. The white papers her campaign has been putting out are super detailed and impressive. She's probably the most knowledgeable candidate on policy in the race right now by a large margin. If you take her plan for regulating Wall Street for example, it's far more nuanced than Bernie's. One interesting idea in her plan is to tax banks based upon how risky their investments are. Basically banks would have to pay a fee if they take on high amounts of debt. This approach discourages banks from getting too large, and from making risky bets that could go bad and require a government bailout. The extra revenue wouldn't hurt either. On the other hand, Bernie's plan is focused on having the government break up banks that are "too big to fail." This approach makes for much pithier soundbites, but it ignores the fact that the likelihood of a bailout being necessary isn't just a function of the size an institution, but how risky its investments have been. And this is just one example - Hillary's campaign has released a couple dozen detailed policy papers like this.
No one knocks her intelligence or knowledge. Her problem is that she's popularly perceived as a lying bitch. No one really likes her. Kinda hard to overcome that.
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On February 03 2016 12:48 IgnE wrote:Show nested quote +On February 03 2016 11:27 cLutZ wrote:
The thing is that it still doesn't seem like Bernie is serious, and the media is picking up on it. Otherwise all the media would be running "U.S.S.A. ?!" Headlines. What does USSA stand for? Show nested quote +On February 03 2016 11:31 KwarK wrote:
I saw a U.S.S.A. bumper sticker a few days ago and wanted to stop the guy and explain to him that the R in USSR does not stand for Russia and that even if it did USSA would be Union of Socialist Soviet Americas which would be dumb as hell and that if the USA became a Soviet state it would be called the USSR also.
Alas he drove off into the distance. Oh you already did that one.
Presumably it would be more fun. United Socialist States of America, or United States, for a Socialist Americas (aka the dream of a Socialist western hemisphere!). You who cannot understand great jokes that play on crappy names of foriegn lands are missing out. Things like the "People's Democratic Republic of Chicago" make John Stewart look like Dane Cook.
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lol This #BernieWontDebate is hilarious. Do HRC supporters actually buy this or is it purely political?
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your Country52798 Posts
On February 03 2016 13:19 GreenHorizons wrote:
lol This #BernieWontDebate is hilarious. Do HRC supporters actually buy this or is it purely political?
Why are they saying that? o_o
Edit: Why*, obviously it's on twitter.
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On February 03 2016 13:14 xDaunt wrote:Show nested quote +On February 03 2016 13:02 Mercy13 wrote:On February 03 2016 11:35 Danglars wrote:On February 03 2016 11:27 Advantageous wrote:
I'm just surprised there's actually people here on TL that is opposed to Sanders winning lol. Thought everyone on TL would be progressive and looking forward to Sanders missing Hilary by a small margin... It's just too diverse a community. The notable lack is actual Hillary supporters not well, we can't have Trump or Cruz, and Bernie just doesn't stand a chance ... so I guess my man woman is Hillary. I literally haven't heard a single positive 'She's the best person for the job, her record shows she can lead, her scandals and corruption have been overblown, she's my girl!' Eh I think it's fair to say I'm a Hillary supporter. The white papers her campaign has been putting out are super detailed and impressive. She's probably the most knowledgeable candidate on policy in the race right now by a large margin. If you take her plan for regulating Wall Street for example, it's far more nuanced than Bernie's. One interesting idea in her plan is to tax banks based upon how risky their investments are. Basically banks would have to pay a fee if they take on high amounts of debt. This approach discourages banks from getting too large, and from making risky bets that could go bad and require a government bailout. The extra revenue wouldn't hurt either. On the other hand, Bernie's plan is focused on having the government break up banks that are "too big to fail." This approach makes for much pithier soundbites, but it ignores the fact that the likelihood of a bailout being necessary isn't just a function of the size an institution, but how risky its investments have been. And this is just one example - Hillary's campaign has released a couple dozen detailed policy papers like this. No one knocks her intelligence or knowledge. Her problem is that she's popularly perceived as a lying bitch. No one really likes her. Kinda hard to overcome that.
I understand Bernie's appeal, but I'd take a pragmatic liar as a politician over a true believer any day of the week.
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On February 03 2016 13:28 Mercy13 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 03 2016 13:14 xDaunt wrote:On February 03 2016 13:02 Mercy13 wrote:On February 03 2016 11:35 Danglars wrote:On February 03 2016 11:27 Advantageous wrote:
I'm just surprised there's actually people here on TL that is opposed to Sanders winning lol. Thought everyone on TL would be progressive and looking forward to Sanders missing Hilary by a small margin... It's just too diverse a community. The notable lack is actual Hillary supporters not well, we can't have Trump or Cruz, and Bernie just doesn't stand a chance ... so I guess my man woman is Hillary. I literally haven't heard a single positive 'She's the best person for the job, her record shows she can lead, her scandals and corruption have been overblown, she's my girl!' Eh I think it's fair to say I'm a Hillary supporter. The white papers her campaign has been putting out are super detailed and impressive. She's probably the most knowledgeable candidate on policy in the race right now by a large margin. If you take her plan for regulating Wall Street for example, it's far more nuanced than Bernie's. One interesting idea in her plan is to tax banks based upon how risky their investments are. Basically banks would have to pay a fee if they take on high amounts of debt. This approach discourages banks from getting too large, and from making risky bets that could go bad and require a government bailout. The extra revenue wouldn't hurt either. On the other hand, Bernie's plan is focused on having the government break up banks that are "too big to fail." This approach makes for much pithier soundbites, but it ignores the fact that the likelihood of a bailout being necessary isn't just a function of the size an institution, but how risky its investments have been. And this is just one example - Hillary's campaign has released a couple dozen detailed policy papers like this. No one knocks her intelligence or knowledge. Her problem is that she's popularly perceived as a lying bitch. No one really likes her. Kinda hard to overcome that. I understand Bernie's appeal, but I'd take a pragmatic liar as a politician over a true believer any day of the week.
I get the feeling but about 2 more seconds of thinking leads one to wonder why believe she's even going to try to do the "pragmatic" stuff she claims? Not just say what it takes to get votes and blame inaction on Republicans we already know will refuse their own ideas if it comes out of Obama/Hillary's mouth?
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But she's not a lying bitch. The entire cold, awkward, calculating thing is like Jeb's low energy tag-- completely made up. I've heard story after story about how Hillary has been a pretty solid retail politician and has connected well with small (50-100) groups of voters. She doesn't look great in the huge rally/speech situations which are the ones that get really covered.
And my impression is that a lot of Bernie supporters haven't taken a good look at her record or her platform. Krugman actually had a great piece about some of them buying into the entire rightwing smear campaign against her, hilariously a couple of the top links in r/politics and r/bernieforpresident are from The Blaze right now.
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How does her connecting to a small group of voters make her not a lying bitch?
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On February 03 2016 13:33 ticklishmusic wrote:
But she's not a lying bitch. The entire cold, awkward, calculating thing is like Jeb's low energy tag-- completely made up. I've heard story after story about how Hillary has been a pretty solid retail politician and has connected well with small (50-100) groups of voters. She doesn't look great in the huge rally/speech situations which are the ones that get really covered.
And my impression is that a lot of Bernie supporters haven't taken a good look at her record or her platform. Krugman actually had a great piece about some of them buying into the entire rightwing smear campaign against her, hilariously a couple of the top links in r/politics and r/bernieforpresident are from The Blaze right now.
To defend Bernie supporters, the entire premise of her being even a mildly popular and well knowm political figure is based on her association with another political figure. And her current platform sneakily rejects nearly all of that other figure's major legislative and executive accomplishments.
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On February 03 2016 13:33 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On February 03 2016 13:28 Mercy13 wrote:On February 03 2016 13:14 xDaunt wrote:On February 03 2016 13:02 Mercy13 wrote:On February 03 2016 11:35 Danglars wrote:On February 03 2016 11:27 Advantageous wrote:
I'm just surprised there's actually people here on TL that is opposed to Sanders winning lol. Thought everyone on TL would be progressive and looking forward to Sanders missing Hilary by a small margin... It's just too diverse a community. The notable lack is actual Hillary supporters not well, we can't have Trump or Cruz, and Bernie just doesn't stand a chance ... so I guess my man woman is Hillary. I literally haven't heard a single positive 'She's the best person for the job, her record shows she can lead, her scandals and corruption have been overblown, she's my girl!' Eh I think it's fair to say I'm a Hillary supporter. The white papers her campaign has been putting out are super detailed and impressive. She's probably the most knowledgeable candidate on policy in the race right now by a large margin. If you take her plan for regulating Wall Street for example, it's far more nuanced than Bernie's. One interesting idea in her plan is to tax banks based upon how risky their investments are. Basically banks would have to pay a fee if they take on high amounts of debt. This approach discourages banks from getting too large, and from making risky bets that could go bad and require a government bailout. The extra revenue wouldn't hurt either. On the other hand, Bernie's plan is focused on having the government break up banks that are "too big to fail." This approach makes for much pithier soundbites, but it ignores the fact that the likelihood of a bailout being necessary isn't just a function of the size an institution, but how risky its investments have been. And this is just one example - Hillary's campaign has released a couple dozen detailed policy papers like this. No one knocks her intelligence or knowledge. Her problem is that she's popularly perceived as a lying bitch. No one really likes her. Kinda hard to overcome that. I understand Bernie's appeal, but I'd take a pragmatic liar as a politician over a true believer any day of the week. I get the feeling but about 2 more seconds of thinking leads one to wonder why believe she's even going to try to do the "pragmatic" stuff she claims? Not just say what it takes to get votes and blame inaction on Republicans we already know will refuse their own ideas if it comes out of Obama/Hillary's mouth?
I believe her when she lays out her legislative priorities. If she gets elected she'll obviously have to focus on just a few, but politicians actually try to follow through on a surprising number of their campaign promises. I read the summary of a paper that concluded that on average they at least make a serious effort to implement something like 70-80% of the policies they campaign on. I don't have reason to believe Hillary would be any different.
As for her being generally dishonest, I don't think she's worse than most other politicians. She's worse in this regard than Bernie obviously, but that's not the end all and be all for me : )
On February 03 2016 13:46 cLutZ wrote:Show nested quote +On February 03 2016 13:33 ticklishmusic wrote:
But she's not a lying bitch. The entire cold, awkward, calculating thing is like Jeb's low energy tag-- completely made up. I've heard story after story about how Hillary has been a pretty solid retail politician and has connected well with small (50-100) groups of voters. She doesn't look great in the huge rally/speech situations which are the ones that get really covered.
And my impression is that a lot of Bernie supporters haven't taken a good look at her record or her platform. Krugman actually had a great piece about some of them buying into the entire rightwing smear campaign against her, hilariously a couple of the top links in r/politics and r/bernieforpresident are from The Blaze right now. To defend Bernie supporters, the entire premise of her being even a mildly popular and well knowm political figure is based on her association with another political figure. And her current platform sneakily rejects nearly all of that other figure's major legislative and executive accomplishments.
This is patently ridiculous. Do you think Obama made her Secretary of State because of who her husband is?
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Not entirely, but do you honestly think that if Bill wasn't President that she would of been chosen?
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It's impossible to say for sure obviously, but she's smart, talented, and ambitious. It's very possible that we would know her name even if she had never married Bill. Heck, maybe she would already have been president already if she hadn't had so much baggage from Bill's time in office to deal with.
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On February 03 2016 13:48 Mercy13 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 03 2016 13:33 GreenHorizons wrote:On February 03 2016 13:28 Mercy13 wrote:On February 03 2016 13:14 xDaunt wrote:On February 03 2016 13:02 Mercy13 wrote:On February 03 2016 11:35 Danglars wrote:On February 03 2016 11:27 Advantageous wrote:
I'm just surprised there's actually people here on TL that is opposed to Sanders winning lol. Thought everyone on TL would be progressive and looking forward to Sanders missing Hilary by a small margin... It's just too diverse a community. The notable lack is actual Hillary supporters not well, we can't have Trump or Cruz, and Bernie just doesn't stand a chance ... so I guess my man woman is Hillary. I literally haven't heard a single positive 'She's the best person for the job, her record shows she can lead, her scandals and corruption have been overblown, she's my girl!' Eh I think it's fair to say I'm a Hillary supporter. The white papers her campaign has been putting out are super detailed and impressive. She's probably the most knowledgeable candidate on policy in the race right now by a large margin. If you take her plan for regulating Wall Street for example, it's far more nuanced than Bernie's. One interesting idea in her plan is to tax banks based upon how risky their investments are. Basically banks would have to pay a fee if they take on high amounts of debt. This approach discourages banks from getting too large, and from making risky bets that could go bad and require a government bailout. The extra revenue wouldn't hurt either. On the other hand, Bernie's plan is focused on having the government break up banks that are "too big to fail." This approach makes for much pithier soundbites, but it ignores the fact that the likelihood of a bailout being necessary isn't just a function of the size an institution, but how risky its investments have been. And this is just one example - Hillary's campaign has released a couple dozen detailed policy papers like this. No one knocks her intelligence or knowledge. Her problem is that she's popularly perceived as a lying bitch. No one really likes her. Kinda hard to overcome that. I understand Bernie's appeal, but I'd take a pragmatic liar as a politician over a true believer any day of the week. I get the feeling but about 2 more seconds of thinking leads one to wonder why believe she's even going to try to do the "pragmatic" stuff she claims? Not just say what it takes to get votes and blame inaction on Republicans we already know will refuse their own ideas if it comes out of Obama/Hillary's mouth? I believe her when she lays out her legislative priorities. If she gets elected she'll obviously have to focus on just a few, but politicians actually try to follow through on a surprising number of their campaign promises. I read the summary of a paper that concluded that on average they at least make a serious effort to implement something like 70-80% of the policies they campaign on. I don't have reason to believe Hillary would be any different. As for her being generally dishonest, I don't think she's worse than most other politicians. She's worse in this regard than Bernie obviously, but that's not the end all and be all for me : ) Show nested quote +On February 03 2016 13:46 cLutZ wrote:On February 03 2016 13:33 ticklishmusic wrote:
But she's not a lying bitch. The entire cold, awkward, calculating thing is like Jeb's low energy tag-- completely made up. I've heard story after story about how Hillary has been a pretty solid retail politician and has connected well with small (50-100) groups of voters. She doesn't look great in the huge rally/speech situations which are the ones that get really covered.
And my impression is that a lot of Bernie supporters haven't taken a good look at her record or her platform. Krugman actually had a great piece about some of them buying into the entire rightwing smear campaign against her, hilariously a couple of the top links in r/politics and r/bernieforpresident are from The Blaze right now. To defend Bernie supporters, the entire premise of her being even a mildly popular and well knowm political figure is based on her association with another political figure. And her current platform sneakily rejects nearly all of that other figure's major legislative and executive accomplishments. This is patently ridiculous. Do you think Obama made her Secretary of State because of who her husband is?
He did that to solidify the Democratic party after a hard fought primary, and to set her up as a plausible successor. She only was in that primary because of Bill (outside of being a Martin O'Malley level candidate), and only became a Senator (to give her plausibility at all) in an all- but uncontested race because of Bill's popularity.
Even in the Senate she was mostly unaccomplished. Gillibrand, her successor, who is mostly ignored has done more.
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Cricketer12
United States14003 Posts
On February 03 2016 11:40 The_Templar wrote:
I'd vote hillary against any of the current top 5+ republicans, but I wouldn't like it.
Agreed
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Well Obama put her in his cabinet to prevent her from being able to Primary him. At least that was the universal interpretation at the time.
Surely without Bill she wouldn't have been Sen. From New York because there wouldn't be a Clinton foundation to funnel money through for Wall st.
I agree that's standard politics and doesn't make her unusually corrupt but that's the whole point, this is our last shot at changing that system and Hillary isn't it.
No question though she's the single best/most powerful person using standard politics.
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A vote for Hillary is a vote for the status-quo in America with lip-service for certain social issues.
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EPT
