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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please.

In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up!

NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious.
Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action.
GreenHorizons
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States24041 Posts
January 30 2016 02:13 GMT
#56181
On January 30 2016 10:24 GoTuNk! wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 30 2016 05:54 Plansix wrote:
On January 30 2016 05:46 ticklishmusic wrote:
I agree with KwarK. For low-skilled labor it makes sense because there's little differentiation in duties. For higher-skilled labor, it gets really complicated-- examples include people with the same title or rank (like VP, manager, etc.) but substantially different amounts/types of responsibility.

Off the top of my head, my firm would look really weird. Black people: my boss (a VP), a bunch of developers, an analyst and our two office managers. Asians: me, a data analyst, a few others (probably some developers). Then a ton of white people. I know most everyone's salary (or at least the ballparks) because it's part of my job though.

Yes, but does collecting that information and going through the thought process harm the business? Many business don’t do what you just did. And there is no specific information about employees released to the public, only broad categories. I don’t make mistakes in my files, but I still audit them just to make sure.


As someone who owns a business (2 actually). Every little minute thing you have to do because the government says so and not because you need, or want to, hurts you.

Business are ALWAYS short on resources, money, man power, etc. Nothing, but nothing, is worse than when you are tired (or your employees) but some lame paper work or report has to be done because the government says so.


Think it would make sense to have something built into it that helps or fully covers the cost of a group to help the businesses closer to 100 employees (with a mind towards the income of the business).

Shouldn't be that tough, it's not like it's information that the owners shouldn't already have, it's just about getting it organized and viewable.
"People like to look at history and think 'If that was me back then, I would have...' We're living through history, and the truth is, whatever you are doing now is probably what you would have done then" "Scratch a Liberal..."
The_Templar
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
your Country52798 Posts
January 30 2016 02:28 GMT
#56182
On January 30 2016 11:10 oBlade wrote:
-Mr. Rubio, critics have accused you of flip-flopping on the issue of amnesty. Your response?

-Thank you. Well, it's interesting that call me a flip-flopper, because you know who wore sandals? Our lord and savior Jesus Christ of Nazareth. Does that answer your question?

:D

That response made me super angry.
ModeratorI am still alive, somehow
TL+ Member
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
January 30 2016 02:32 GMT
#56183
It is a last ditch effort by Rubio to make some appeal if he doesn't get anything out of either Iowa or New Hampshire he will be forced to drop out. Then he has to go back to Florida and try to win the Senate seat he has that he called useless and never shows up for in the first place.
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
Yoav
Profile Joined March 2011
United States1874 Posts
January 30 2016 06:11 GMT
#56184
On January 29 2016 12:39 cLutZ wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 29 2016 12:38 acker wrote:
On January 29 2016 12:36 cLutZ wrote:
*Any primary. Its an off the cuff applause line like, "Millionaires and Billionaires".

*Any Republican primary. I agree it's a suitable off the cuff applause line suitable for Republicans.

So your assertion is that Bernie and Hillary know the Constitutional structure of all the OECD countries?


No Hillary fan her by any means, but I would bet good money she does. Heck, I can do most of them and I'm certainly not an ex Secretary of State running for President.

On January 30 2016 07:52 cLutZ wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 30 2016 06:30 Plansix wrote:
On January 30 2016 06:20 cLutZ wrote:
On January 30 2016 06:03 Plansix wrote:
On January 30 2016 05:53 cLutZ wrote:
So, in Illinois, we have this with schoolteachers, and they absolutely hate it. Every time they go on strike (outside of the City of Chicago) they get mercilessly mocked because people can see that their kid's English teacher is earning 80k. Notoriously one math teacher earned over 150k while only teaching 3 50-minute classes a day.

I think NBA/NFL players also hate that the world knows what they earn, and it really seems to serve them poorly in CBA negotiations as the public never seems to be on their side.

Also, I think it creates a dumb situation where things need to be explained that really just ends of becoming a paperwork nightmare. Employment discrimination law is already totally screwed up because of the application of "disparate impact" standards.

I would point out again that the specific information about employees is not public under the requirement. They couldn't trot out someones pay when they go on strike.


First, let me address your general proposition that employees are not identifiable, and its not true for large (but not mega Wal-Mart) firms, like a 100-person law firm, if the data has any meaning. Lets just say at the firm you divide between Paralegals, Associates, and Partners. And lets say it says F 25-35 Paralegal, Chicago Office, 50k, it needs to be at least that specific to have any meaning, and already it probably has narrowed the pool down to probably 1 person, maybe 2. So I'd argue with that premise on its own.

Second, as I referenced, we already have a problem with too much information being given to outside groups and generating frivolous (but very hard to defend against) lawsuits based only on reporting of the racial and sexual makeup of a workforce. If we add another layer of public evidence, it will be a nightmare for everyone besides employment attorneys.

As someone who deals with frivolously counter claims to debt collection, title clearing and like every other dumb type of “sovereign citizen” filing against our cleints, I can respect that. But I am not convinced the collection of this information will increase the number of frivolously claims by any significant number. They passed a number of laws in my state regarding banks and reposed property that people claimed would cause a “flood gate” of litigation. I have yet to see it.


The reason that it isn't really speculation is because there is already a huge number of employment discrimination lawsuits, and hiring practices are already molded to try and get "pleasing" numbers (aka a quota system) at a lat of big employers. I'd actually be in favor of more transparency if it was essentially "traded" for a more sane burden of proof in employment discrimination law overall (along the lines of eliminating the disparate impact test and making plaintiffs show a discriminatory cause).


That would be a reasonable trade. Make it easier for everyone to see income and less risky to hire racial minorities. I'd be down with that. Too many businesses basically don't hire or promote blacks on the fear that they will sue for crazy money if they're fired for whatever random reason. It would be great to get rid of that perverse incentive.
GreenHorizons
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States24041 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-01-30 12:17:18
January 30 2016 09:05 GMT
#56185
According to newly discovered emails, Michigan officials were trucking clean water to a state building in Flint in January 2015, long before they acknowledged to residents that the city had a contamination problem.


One of the emails, which were obtained by the group Progress Michigan, was sent from the state Department of Technology, Management, and Budget. It reads, "While the City of Flint states that corrective actions are not necessary, DTMB is in the process of providing a water cooler on each occupied floor, positioned near the water fountain, so you can choose which water to drink. The coolers will arrive today and will be provided as long as the public water does not meet treatment requirements."

The email was sent just days after the city sent out an advisory about high levels of trihalomethanes in its water but maintained that, for healthy individuals, the water was safe to drink. Residents had been reporting smelly, tainted water and adverse health conditions related to it since shortly after Flint switched water sources in April 2014.


Source

So Trump went there.

Washington (CNN)Donald Trump on Friday called Texas Sen. Ted Cruz an "anchor baby" during a campaign stop in which he also said his chief Republican rival got "pummeled" at Thursday night's GOP debate.

"Ted Cruz may not be a U.S. citizen, right? But he's an anchor baby. No, he's an anchor baby -- Ted Cruz is an anchor baby in Canada," Trump quipped in a speech to supporters in Nashua, New Hampshire.


Source

"People like to look at history and think 'If that was me back then, I would have...' We're living through history, and the truth is, whatever you are doing now is probably what you would have done then" "Scratch a Liberal..."
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
January 30 2016 12:46 GMT
#56186
Environmental officials found this week that at least seven Maryland homes certified as lead-free were actually contaminated by lead paint or not inspected at all. The findings by the Maryland department of the environment and the Environmental Protection Agency have prompted a broader investigation into the unnamed private inspector, and notices to 384 families urging them to have their children tested for lead poisoning.

While attention to the recent crisis in Flint, Michigan, has focused on lead contamination in water, high rates of lead poisoning in Baltimore come from lead paint. Children, particularly those younger than six, are vulnerable to long-term effects when they ingest lead particles from peeling paint.

When people in Baltimore talk about “lead checks” they are not talking about the inspections that are supposed to ensure that children aren’t endangered by lead poisoning; they are talking about the settlement payments that come after the damage is done. In the most recent discovery of fraudulent lead inspections, the inspector was not named, but is known to have worked for American Homeowner Services LLC between 2010 and 2014.

Although there have been dramatic reductions in lead poisoning in Baltimore over recent decades, an investigation by the Baltimore Sun in December showed that more than 4,900 children have been affected by lead in the last decade – 129 in the last year alone.


Source
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
TheTenthDoc
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States9561 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-01-30 12:59:31
January 30 2016 12:56 GMT
#56187
On January 30 2016 18:05 GreenHorizons wrote:
Show nested quote +
According to newly discovered emails, Michigan officials were trucking clean water to a state building in Flint in January 2015, long before they acknowledged to residents that the city had a contamination problem.


One of the emails, which were obtained by the group Progress Michigan, was sent from the state Department of Technology, Management, and Budget. It reads, "While the City of Flint states that corrective actions are not necessary, DTMB is in the process of providing a water cooler on each occupied floor, positioned near the water fountain, so you can choose which water to drink. The coolers will arrive today and will be provided as long as the public water does not meet treatment requirements."

The email was sent just days after the city sent out an advisory about high levels of trihalomethanes in its water but maintained that, for healthy individuals, the water was safe to drink. Residents had been reporting smelly, tainted water and adverse health conditions related to it since shortly after Flint switched water sources in April 2014.


Source

So Trump went there.

Show nested quote +
Washington (CNN)Donald Trump on Friday called Texas Sen. Ted Cruz an "anchor baby" during a campaign stop in which he also said his chief Republican rival got "pummeled" at Thursday night's GOP debate.

"Ted Cruz may not be a U.S. citizen, right? But he's an anchor baby. No, he's an anchor baby -- Ted Cruz is an anchor baby in Canada," Trump quipped in a speech to supporters in Nashua, New Hampshire.


Source



I can't even tell what that Trump quote is supposed to mean. It's just total nonsense. Baffling that people are still convinced he's some cunning mastermind when he spews word strings like that.

Everything in it is nonsense. Ted Cruz is supposedly not a U.S. citizen born to other U.S. citizens in another country. An anchor baby is a U.S. citizen born to non-U.S. citizens in the U.S. Those are actually total polar opposites. Surprised Trump didn't throw in a "literally" for good measure.
Toadesstern
Profile Blog Joined October 2008
Germany16350 Posts
January 30 2016 13:02 GMT
#56188
I think he's trying to say that Cruz is an Anchor Baby IN Canada, as in, the parents had him so that they could stay in Canada and only decided to move to the US later?

Otherwise this doesn't really make sense.
<Elem> >toad in charge of judging lewdness <Elem> how bad can it be <Elem> also wew, that is actually p lewd.
TheTenthDoc
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States9561 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-01-30 13:48:14
January 30 2016 13:42 GMT
#56189
On January 30 2016 22:02 Toadesstern wrote:
I think he's trying to say that Cruz is an Anchor Baby IN Canada, as in, the parents had him so that they could stay in Canada and only decided to move to the US later?

Otherwise this doesn't really make sense.


I mean from a quick Wiki search both his parents had concrete jobs with a legitimate company so I don't think they would have had even a teensy tiny problem remaining in the country as long as they wanted. Even if that's what Trump meant it's pretty incoherent.

Incidentally, by saying Cruz isn't a "real" citizen, Trump would be saying he wants to end both just-birthright and just-descent citizenship, which is an...interesting...policy position.
Toadesstern
Profile Blog Joined October 2008
Germany16350 Posts
January 30 2016 14:05 GMT
#56190
I'm trying to make sense of the man, not saying what he says makes sense 8(
<Elem> >toad in charge of judging lewdness <Elem> how bad can it be <Elem> also wew, that is actually p lewd.
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
January 30 2016 14:05 GMT
#56191
From DNA Info, here’s the latest piece of evidence that the corruption and abuse in the Chicago Police Department aren’t limited to a few bad cops — the problems are systemic.

Why are so many police dashcam videos silent?

Chicago Police Department officers stashed microphones in their squad car glove boxes. They pulled out batteries. Microphone antennas got busted or went missing. And sometimes, dashcam systems didn’t have any microphones at all, DNAinfo Chicago has learned.

Police officials last month blamed the absence of audio in 80 percent of dashcam videos on officer error and “intentional destruction.”

A DNAinfo Chicago review of more than 1,800 police maintenance logs sheds light on the no-sound syndrome plaguing Police Department videos — including its most notorious dashcam case.

Maintenance records of the squad car used by Jason Van Dyke, who shot and killed Laquan McDonald, and his partner, Joseph Walsh, show monthslong delays for two dashcam repairs, including a long wait to fix “intentional damage.”

On June 17, 2014, police technicians reported fixing a dashcam wiring issue in police vehicle No. 6412, the squad shared by Van Dyke and Walsh, about three months after it was reported broken, records show.

A day later, the same vehicle’s dashcam system was reported busted again. It took until Oct. 8, 2014, to complete repairs of what technicians deemed “intentional damage,” according to reports.


The article goes on like that. This isn’t a few bad apples. It’s 80 percent. Why haven’t these officers been prosecuted? Several years ago, a woman named Tiawanda Moore tried to file a report of alleged sexual assault by a Chicago PD officer. When the internal affairs officers with whom she was trying to file the complaint began to intimidate her, Moore began recording the conversation with her cellphone. Under Illinois law at the time, it was a felony to record a police officer without his or her permission. That law has since been struck down, but Anita Alvarez, the state’s attorney for Cook County who had the power and discretion to decline to prosecute given the circumstances, pushed ahead and attempted to put Moore in prison. Her office did the same with Chicago artist Christopher Drew. Moore was eventually acquitted, in what was almost certainly an act of jury nullification.


Source
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
Mohdoo
Profile Joined August 2007
United States15743 Posts
January 30 2016 16:25 GMT
#56192
On January 30 2016 10:24 GoTuNk! wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 30 2016 05:54 Plansix wrote:
On January 30 2016 05:46 ticklishmusic wrote:
I agree with KwarK. For low-skilled labor it makes sense because there's little differentiation in duties. For higher-skilled labor, it gets really complicated-- examples include people with the same title or rank (like VP, manager, etc.) but substantially different amounts/types of responsibility.

Off the top of my head, my firm would look really weird. Black people: my boss (a VP), a bunch of developers, an analyst and our two office managers. Asians: me, a data analyst, a few others (probably some developers). Then a ton of white people. I know most everyone's salary (or at least the ballparks) because it's part of my job though.

Yes, but does collecting that information and going through the thought process harm the business? Many business don’t do what you just did. And there is no specific information about employees released to the public, only broad categories. I don’t make mistakes in my files, but I still audit them just to make sure.


As someone who owns a business (2 actually). Every little minute thing you have to do because the government says so and not because you need, or want to, hurts you.

Business are ALWAYS short on resources, money, man power, etc. Nothing, but nothing, is worse than when you are tired (or your employees) but some lame paper work or report has to be done because the government says so.


And if you aren't able to get by in spite of these things, you're probably not a good business owner.
ticklishmusic
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
United States15977 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-01-30 16:41:11
January 30 2016 16:35 GMT
#56193
He makes a point though-- IIRC he owns gyms though so for his particular situation he's got pretty straightforward payroll with the downside that he's doing the HR stuff himself or the guy he hired to do it isn't a super professional. My company has 800 people, but we're still woefully understaffed in some places which is why I'm working 8AM on a Saturday morning to work on a fire drill (which is weird business speak for emergency project).

I think the pay disclosure would really only apply to large businesses so you get a sufficient sample size. Then make some sort of rule that really protects medium sized employers but makes it easy for people to request salary info from HR and some comparisons and probably further be limited to only positions up to manager.

Right now you can go to glassdoor and check out salaries. You can see what positions are getting at various companies, and there's some additional info like reviews, tenure, ratings, etc. It doesn't have ethnicity or gender info, but with that and some research of your own you should have a good idea if you should be getting less, as much as, or more than what you see online. Likely you want more, so it's up to you to prove you do. I don't think its very difficult. That's basically what I did when I first got hired.

(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
January 30 2016 18:00 GMT
#56194
On January 31 2016 01:25 Mohdoo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 30 2016 10:24 GoTuNk! wrote:
On January 30 2016 05:54 Plansix wrote:
On January 30 2016 05:46 ticklishmusic wrote:
I agree with KwarK. For low-skilled labor it makes sense because there's little differentiation in duties. For higher-skilled labor, it gets really complicated-- examples include people with the same title or rank (like VP, manager, etc.) but substantially different amounts/types of responsibility.

Off the top of my head, my firm would look really weird. Black people: my boss (a VP), a bunch of developers, an analyst and our two office managers. Asians: me, a data analyst, a few others (probably some developers). Then a ton of white people. I know most everyone's salary (or at least the ballparks) because it's part of my job though.

Yes, but does collecting that information and going through the thought process harm the business? Many business don’t do what you just did. And there is no specific information about employees released to the public, only broad categories. I don’t make mistakes in my files, but I still audit them just to make sure.


As someone who owns a business (2 actually). Every little minute thing you have to do because the government says so and not because you need, or want to, hurts you.

Business are ALWAYS short on resources, money, man power, etc. Nothing, but nothing, is worse than when you are tired (or your employees) but some lame paper work or report has to be done because the government says so.


And if you aren't able to get by in spite of these things, you're probably not a good business owner.

As someone who works for banks and has to comply with regulations all the time, it isn't as cumbersome as people make it out to be.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
Deathstar
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
9150 Posts
January 30 2016 18:13 GMT
#56195
Yeah more paperwork is a pain in the ass, but this is directed towards businesses with 100+ employees so they probably have the infrastructure to handle more paperwork. Also, the data collection will bring interesting information to light so not too much harm overall.
rip passion
Mohdoo
Profile Joined August 2007
United States15743 Posts
January 30 2016 18:43 GMT
#56196
NYT has a well articulated article why they endorsed Hilary Clinton

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/01/31/opinion/sunday/hillary-clinton-endorsement.html?smid=fb-nytimes&smtyp=cur
Paljas
Profile Joined October 2011
Germany6926 Posts
January 30 2016 18:57 GMT
#56197
One of the most attractive parts of Mrs. Clinton’s economic platform is her pledge to support the well-being and rights of working Americans

lel

We are not convinced that a no-fly zone is the right approach in Syria, but we have no doubt that Mrs. Clinton would use American military power effectively and with infinitely more care and wisdom than any of the leading Republican contenders.

rofl
a vision in which middle-class Americans have a real shot at prosperity

and the poor working class still gets fucked beyond belief, like during every democratic president.
trash article
TL+ Member
aksfjh
Profile Joined November 2010
United States4853 Posts
January 30 2016 19:06 GMT
#56198
On January 31 2016 03:43 Mohdoo wrote:
NYT has a well articulated article why they endorsed Hilary Clinton

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/01/31/opinion/sunday/hillary-clinton-endorsement.html?smid=fb-nytimes&smtyp=cur


In the end, though, Mr. Sanders does not have the breadth of experience or policy ideas that Mrs. Clinton offers. His boldest proposals — to break up the banks and to start all over on health care reform with a Medicare-for-all system — have earned him support among alienated middle-class voters and young people. But his plans for achieving them aren’t realistic, while Mrs. Clinton has very good, and achievable, proposals in both areas.


That basically sums up the difference between them to me as well.
Mohdoo
Profile Joined August 2007
United States15743 Posts
January 30 2016 19:13 GMT
#56199
On January 31 2016 04:06 aksfjh wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 31 2016 03:43 Mohdoo wrote:
NYT has a well articulated article why they endorsed Hilary Clinton

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/01/31/opinion/sunday/hillary-clinton-endorsement.html?smid=fb-nytimes&smtyp=cur


Show nested quote +
In the end, though, Mr. Sanders does not have the breadth of experience or policy ideas that Mrs. Clinton offers. His boldest proposals — to break up the banks and to start all over on health care reform with a Medicare-for-all system — have earned him support among alienated middle-class voters and young people. But his plans for achieving them aren’t realistic, while Mrs. Clinton has very good, and achievable, proposals in both areas.


That basically sums up the difference between them to me as well.


Yup, that's my continued view on this. Bernie is great because he is essentially giving democrats their own kinda tea party. But in the end, I don't want him as president.
ticklishmusic
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
United States15977 Posts
January 30 2016 19:14 GMT
#56200
I agree 100% with the assessments here and there
(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻
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