• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 05:26
CET 11:26
KST 19:26
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL22] Finals Preview: Sweet Victory!12[ASL22] Ro4 Preview: Mirror Mirror6[ASL22] Ro8 Preview: Within Reach5[ASL22] Ro8 Preview: In A Tizzy11[ASL22] Ro16 Preview: Holy Diver5
Community News
Weekly Cups (Oct 26 - Nov 1): MaxPax, herO, Solar win0Weekly Cups (October 19-25): Clem triples first in 5.0.175Evil Geniuses - shutting down23ISSL (IntoTheTV x SOOP SC2 League): Premier7Weekly Cups (October 12-18): 5.0.17 era begins1
StarCraft 2
General
No more SC2 streamers on team liquid? StarCraft open world shooter announced at BlizzCon [D] Hacker peak in sc2 ? Liquibets sc2 season 30 Evil Geniuses - shutting down
Tourneys
SC2 INu's Battles#22 SC4ALL: II Venue Change Announcement! Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament WardiTV Mondays ISSL (IntoTheTV x SOOP SC2 League): Premier
Strategy
[H] ZvP Mid-Late Game: Stalkers Collossi HT
Custom Maps
Starcraft 2 Advance [G] How to playtest arcade maps [D] the control group Simple Questions/Answers
External Content
Mutation # 551 Robotic Revival Mutation # 550 Graveyard Shift The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 549 Endless Sparkles
Brood War
General
Rollback Netcode in Brood War List of top players active on ShieldBattery Sagi.gg Launcher Released BW General Discussion [Megathread] Daily Funny Videos
Tourneys
[$1250] International ShieldBattery League [Megathread] Daily Proleagues Small VOD Thread 2.0 KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 4
Strategy
50,000-Word Terran Builds Memo 2026-10-22 Cliff Jump Revisited (1 in a 1000 strategy) Simple Questions, Simple Answers
Other Games
General Games
General RTS Discussion Thread Nintendo Switch Thread Path of Exile Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Stratus: Battle for the sky now on steam Early acc
Dota 2
Dota 2 Champions League Season 3 Begins April 25!
League of Legends
[TL LoL EUW IHs] Teemo shall perish
Heroes of the Storm
Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Trading/Investing Thread Dating: How's your luck? Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Russo-Ukrainian War Thread
Fan Clubs
Fan Club Resource Thread Reynor Fan Club The Flash Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! Anime Discussion Thread [Manga] One Piece
Sports
Football (Soccer) Thread TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 MLB/Baseball 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List Recent Gifted Posts
Blogs
Playlenda
Playlendapro
Why I built Repalyzer (1.1.…
BlueStar
Innovate or Game Over?
TrAiDoS
ShieldBattery on Mac
Kraekkling
[ASL22] Ro4 Day1 Ticket Giv…
bITt.mAN
Can Bots Beat Pros?? Starcr…
namkraft
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 11765 users

US Politics Mega-thread - Page 2670

Forum Index > Closed
Post a Reply
Prev 1 2668 2669 2670 2671 2672 10093 Next
Read the rules in the OP before posting, please.

In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up!

NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious.
Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action.
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
December 16 2015 18:39 GMT
#53381
Pretty sure the agreement to leave Iraq was signed by Bush and we followed through with our end since they didn't want us there any more.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S.–Iraq_Status_of_Forces_Agreement

Yep, I'm right. And if we stayed and ANYTHING went wrong or a single American dies, the Republicans would be blaming Obama and Clinton for that. But violating treaties with sovereign nations is something we try to avoid.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
xDaunt
Profile Joined March 2010
United States17988 Posts
December 16 2015 18:45 GMT
#53382
On December 17 2015 03:39 Plansix wrote:
Pretty sure the agreement to leave Iraq was signed by Bush and we followed through with our end since they didn't want us there any more.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S.–Iraq_Status_of_Forces_Agreement

Yep, I'm right. And if we stayed and ANYTHING went wrong or a single American dies, the Republicans would be blaming Obama and Clinton for that. But violating treaties with sovereign nations is something we try to avoid.

I've explained why this is horseshit revisionist history at least three or four times already in this thread. I'm not interested in doing it again.
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
December 16 2015 19:01 GMT
#53383
I am sure it had a bunch of very good reasons why the shit show that was the Iraq war was all Obama's fault and us leaving wasn't due to both pressure at home and Iraq wanting us to leave.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
oneofthem
Profile Blog Joined November 2005
Cayman Islands24199 Posts
December 16 2015 19:01 GMT
#53384
i mean the only obvious mistake by obama, and this is iwth hindsight, is being too kumbaya with the democracy in teh middle east thing, while not supporting reformists to sufficient degree. it's a progressive, audacious and dreamy move that is part of the immediate dynamic of power vacuum, as well as increased repression by surviving authoritarian regimes.

however, the bed of seething unrest and failed state iraq is just the consequence of the disastrous iraq war. the two are kind of the same mistake of failing a 'liberal' movement over there though
We have fed the heart on fantasies, the heart's grown brutal from the fare, more substance in our enmities than in our love
Cam Connor
Profile Blog Joined September 2011
Canada786 Posts
December 16 2015 19:04 GMT
#53385
rate hike hope you had your trades on
post to be
TL+ Member
JonnyBNoHo
Profile Joined July 2011
United States6277 Posts
December 16 2015 19:09 GMT
#53386
On December 17 2015 03:04 KwarK wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 17 2015 02:52 JonnyBNoHo wrote:
On December 17 2015 02:09 KwarK wrote:
On December 17 2015 02:00 Gorsameth wrote:
On December 17 2015 01:56 Eliezar wrote:
On December 17 2015 01:42 farvacola wrote:
Quite a few Republicans refuse to even entertain the notion that Iran would make a better ally than the Saudis; this same camp similarly refuses to acknowledge the widening gap between the waning political authority of the Ayatollah relative to the increasingly Western-friendly Iranian government. Go figure.


If Iran was going to be able to be our ally it would have happened under Obama. I really don't think Iran or Saudi Arabia are countries you want as allies from a moral perspective, but we definitely could use less tension with Iran than we've had ever since we meddled with their government. I think that's one thing that was good with the debate last night that multiple candidates were stating that regime change just doesn't work...it doesn't change the culture.

Its been less then 40 years since they got rid of an American installed dictator and the last president (Bush) made credible threats about invading them. While Obama was working on a diplomatic deal with Iran the Republicans send a letter to them to tell em that any treaty would be null and void if they got into office.

Ofcourse they aren't really looking towards being America's ally. It takes time to get over stuff like that.

Then there was that time the American military shot down one of their passenger planes killing a few hundred civilians for literally no reason and Bush senior explained that he wouldn't apologize for it because, and I quote, he "doesn't apologize for America, no matter what the facts are". Then the guy who gave the order to target the civilian airliner because it wasn't responding to his demands on the military frequency got a medal.

America is unequivocally the bad guy in the Iran America relationship. America staged a 9/11 style attack on them only rather than it being stateless terrorists it was people wearing uniforms with the American flag on them and then you gave out fucking medals to the sailors who did it.

I'm on a phone right now but that isn't correct according to Wikipedia.

Sailors mistook the plane for a fighter jet after they skirmished with Iranian boats. Bush's comments were a campaign line he'd been using before the event and wiki says he didn't use it in relation to the event. Medals were mainly standard tour of duty, and we're not given out because of the airliner. US later apologized and made restitution.

The US expressed regret that the incident happened in a non apology. They made restitution because they knew damn well they'd murdered a bunch of Iranians but that's not an apology.

It was a routine passenger airliner going down the US approved safe flight route it always took at the scheduled flight time. It was not doing anything that might have led anyone anywhere to believe that it was anything other than it was. Even the destroyer's Aegis Combat System recorded that rather than diving, as the crew claimed it was, it was rising and that it was squawking throughout on the civilian channels it should have been. The crew all adamantly claimed things that directly contradicted the records of their instruments to the point that the US in 2000 explained the incident as "scenario fulfillment", a mass hysteria resulting in working too long under pressure to the point that training protocols are carried out while ignoring sensory information that contradicts the scenario being fulfilled.

It was a fuckup of colossal proportions. Like imagine if you're a police officer and you volunteer to go to a school to do a talk about your job and you accidentally shoot a bunch of the kids because you thought they might be ISIS. That's how bad those sailors fucked up on their day at work. That police officer would not be getting told "don't worry, these things happen" and getting a medal at the end of the year.

The only appropriate response would have been to hand out court martials like candy. You don't give medals and say "these things happen". The American response to that incident was shameful and arrogant, consisting mostly of "well we're a superpower so basically you just have to eat shit because fuck you".


Edit: The Navy's own inquiry had this to say
Show nested quote +
"The data from USS Vincennes tapes, information from USS Sides and reliable intelligence information, corroborate the fact that [Iran Air Flight 655] was on a normal commercial air flight plan profile, in the assigned airway, squawking Mode III 6760, on a continuous ascent in altitude from take-off at Bandar Abbas to shoot-down".


Edit2: The wikipedia article would be funny if it wasn't a tragedy
So the Petty Officer who first picked up the plane on radar thought it was a civilian airliner so he started checking it against the records of the flights that would be happening. But it was dark so he didn't see flight 655 on the list.

Seriously?


Also the navy inquiry ruled out the skirmishing with Iranian gunboat explanation.
Show nested quote +
There are claims that Vincennes was engaged in an operation using a decoy cargo ship to lure Iranian gunboats to a fight.[40] These claims were denied by Fogarty in "Hearing Before The Investigation Subcommittee and The Defense Policy Panel of The Committee on Armed Services, House of Representatives, One Hundred Second Congress, Second Session, 21 July 1992". Also, the initial claims of Vincennes being called for help by a cargo ship attacked by Iranian gunboats have been ruled out.


The navy inquiry basically went with "we checked the actual recordings from the instruments, from other ships and from our intelligence in the area and all of it contradicts the story we got from those dumbasses who decided to shoot down an airliner. We can only conclude that they're fucking morons there was some kind of mass hysteria that caused them to ignore all of the actual information."

So you agree that your previous post was wildly inaccurate, yes?
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
December 16 2015 19:17 GMT
#53387
New York agreed on Wednesday to overhaul how thousands of state inmates are punished within prison walls, settling a longstanding lawsuit by accepting a range of reforms to how solitary confinement operates.

The agreement, filed in federal court in Manhattan, comes after years of negotiations with the New York Civil Liberties Union, which sued the state over 23-hour confinement for rule violations, arguing the practice was extraordinarily harsh and psychologically damaging.

“Massive culture change is a challenge,” Donna Liberman, the executive director of the NYCLU, told reporters in announcing the agreement. “We need to be monitoring like a hawk and we will be monitoring like a hawk to ensure that the reforms are actually carried out.”

Once approved by a judge, some of the reforms outlined in the $62m, five-year plan should be implemented within three months.

Those include moving 1,100 of the roughly 4,000 prisoners currently serving time in solitary confinement for minor or nonviolent offenses into more secure, therapeutic housing units.

There are almost 60,000 prisoners in New York, housed in 54 prisons throughout the state.

The agreement also requires the state to retrain its 20,000 prison guards on de-escalation and other techniques, caps the number of days to 30 a prisoner will serve for a first-time, nonviolent offense, reduces the number of violations that carry solitary sentences and for the first time imposes a three-month maximum sentence for most rule violations.

The agreement leaves open exceptions for prisoners who commit extreme acts of violence or escape but also provides so-called step-down programs to effectively acclimate prisoners who have been in long-term isolation, even for violent offenses, before they’re released from custody.


Source
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
KwarK
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
United States44442 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-12-16 20:19:35
December 16 2015 19:24 GMT
#53388
On December 17 2015 04:09 JonnyBNoHo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 17 2015 03:04 KwarK wrote:
On December 17 2015 02:52 JonnyBNoHo wrote:
On December 17 2015 02:09 KwarK wrote:
On December 17 2015 02:00 Gorsameth wrote:
On December 17 2015 01:56 Eliezar wrote:
On December 17 2015 01:42 farvacola wrote:
Quite a few Republicans refuse to even entertain the notion that Iran would make a better ally than the Saudis; this same camp similarly refuses to acknowledge the widening gap between the waning political authority of the Ayatollah relative to the increasingly Western-friendly Iranian government. Go figure.


If Iran was going to be able to be our ally it would have happened under Obama. I really don't think Iran or Saudi Arabia are countries you want as allies from a moral perspective, but we definitely could use less tension with Iran than we've had ever since we meddled with their government. I think that's one thing that was good with the debate last night that multiple candidates were stating that regime change just doesn't work...it doesn't change the culture.

Its been less then 40 years since they got rid of an American installed dictator and the last president (Bush) made credible threats about invading them. While Obama was working on a diplomatic deal with Iran the Republicans send a letter to them to tell em that any treaty would be null and void if they got into office.

Ofcourse they aren't really looking towards being America's ally. It takes time to get over stuff like that.

Then there was that time the American military shot down one of their passenger planes killing a few hundred civilians for literally no reason and Bush senior explained that he wouldn't apologize for it because, and I quote, he "doesn't apologize for America, no matter what the facts are". Then the guy who gave the order to target the civilian airliner because it wasn't responding to his demands on the military frequency got a medal.

America is unequivocally the bad guy in the Iran America relationship. America staged a 9/11 style attack on them only rather than it being stateless terrorists it was people wearing uniforms with the American flag on them and then you gave out fucking medals to the sailors who did it.

I'm on a phone right now but that isn't correct according to Wikipedia.

Sailors mistook the plane for a fighter jet after they skirmished with Iranian boats. Bush's comments were a campaign line he'd been using before the event and wiki says he didn't use it in relation to the event. Medals were mainly standard tour of duty, and we're not given out because of the airliner. US later apologized and made restitution.

The US expressed regret that the incident happened in a non apology. They made restitution because they knew damn well they'd murdered a bunch of Iranians but that's not an apology.

It was a routine passenger airliner going down the US approved safe flight route it always took at the scheduled flight time. It was not doing anything that might have led anyone anywhere to believe that it was anything other than it was. Even the destroyer's Aegis Combat System recorded that rather than diving, as the crew claimed it was, it was rising and that it was squawking throughout on the civilian channels it should have been. The crew all adamantly claimed things that directly contradicted the records of their instruments to the point that the US in 2000 explained the incident as "scenario fulfillment", a mass hysteria resulting in working too long under pressure to the point that training protocols are carried out while ignoring sensory information that contradicts the scenario being fulfilled.

It was a fuckup of colossal proportions. Like imagine if you're a police officer and you volunteer to go to a school to do a talk about your job and you accidentally shoot a bunch of the kids because you thought they might be ISIS. That's how bad those sailors fucked up on their day at work. That police officer would not be getting told "don't worry, these things happen" and getting a medal at the end of the year.

The only appropriate response would have been to hand out court martials like candy. You don't give medals and say "these things happen". The American response to that incident was shameful and arrogant, consisting mostly of "well we're a superpower so basically you just have to eat shit because fuck you".


Edit: The Navy's own inquiry had this to say
"The data from USS Vincennes tapes, information from USS Sides and reliable intelligence information, corroborate the fact that [Iran Air Flight 655] was on a normal commercial air flight plan profile, in the assigned airway, squawking Mode III 6760, on a continuous ascent in altitude from take-off at Bandar Abbas to shoot-down".


Edit2: The wikipedia article would be funny if it wasn't a tragedy
So the Petty Officer who first picked up the plane on radar thought it was a civilian airliner so he started checking it against the records of the flights that would be happening. But it was dark so he didn't see flight 655 on the list.

Seriously?


Also the navy inquiry ruled out the skirmishing with Iranian gunboat explanation.
There are claims that Vincennes was engaged in an operation using a decoy cargo ship to lure Iranian gunboats to a fight.[40] These claims were denied by Fogarty in "Hearing Before The Investigation Subcommittee and The Defense Policy Panel of The Committee on Armed Services, House of Representatives, One Hundred Second Congress, Second Session, 21 July 1992". Also, the initial claims of Vincennes being called for help by a cargo ship attacked by Iranian gunboats have been ruled out.


The navy inquiry basically went with "we checked the actual recordings from the instruments, from other ships and from our intelligence in the area and all of it contradicts the story we got from those dumbasses who decided to shoot down an airliner. We can only conclude that they're fucking morons there was some kind of mass hysteria that caused them to ignore all of the actual information."

So you agree that your previous post was wildly inaccurate, yes?

No, yours was. You brought up the skirmish with Iranian boats which the Navy ruled wasn't a factor in the wikipedia article you cited. I said that it was for no fucking reason while the wikipedia article said it was some kind of mass hysteria which caused them to ignore all the evidence and shoot it down for no fucking reason.

The Flight 655 situation was accurately described by me as a colossal and inexcusable fuckup and was inaccurately defended by you referencing things which were found not to be factors.

It doesn't matter that the medals were not explicitly for the incident. Again, let's compare it to a police officer who shot and killed 66 kids because although all his senses were telling him that they were random kids he decided that they were terrorists. If the police force decided to keep that officer on the force and then, at the end of the year, give him a routine community service medal do you think the parents of the 66 children he murdered would accept that it was a medal that reflected his service generally and that his general conduct throughout the year deserved recognition?

It doesn't matter if it's a routine medal, if someone kills 290 innocent civilians then not only should you not give him a medal for that specific incident, you should also not give him a medal for his service generally at the time when he was killing civilians. This isn't rocket science.
ModeratorThe angels have the phone box
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
December 16 2015 19:51 GMT
#53389
The fierce debate over screening visa applicants in the wake of the San Bernardino attacks was thrown into question on Wednesday after the head of the FBI said the married couple responsible for the shooting did not, as has been widely reported, make public social media posts supportive of jihad.

FBI director James Comey said there is no evidence to suggest the couple, who killed 14 people in California this month, were part of a terrorist cell and that while they had communicated “a joint commitment to jihad and to martyrdom”, those were private messages rather than open social media postings.

Democrats and Republicans have reacted with outrage in recent days to reports that Tashfeen Malik, 29, openly discussed her support for martyrdom in public social media posts which were overlooked due to a policy in the Department of Homeland Security against immigration officials from routinely inspecting the Facebook and Twitter accounts of visa applicants.

Malik, who was Pakistani, traveled to the US in July last year, two months after acquiring her K-1, or fiancée, visa. She later married Syed Rizwan Farook, 28; though the couple is also thought to have married shortly after meeting in Saudi Arabia in 2013.


Source
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
December 16 2015 19:53 GMT
#53390
The misinformation continues. No matter how many times the FBI says that, the politicians will make up whatever story fits their specific narrative.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
Nyxisto
Profile Joined August 2010
Germany6287 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-12-16 20:29:53
December 16 2015 20:27 GMT
#53391
I'm also pretty sure I read somewhere that the FBI considers the sovereign citizen movement to be a far more bigger domestic threat than Islamic terrorism. I wonder why that never makes it to the news.

http://www.start.umd.edu/news/sovereign-citizen-movement-perceived-top-terrorist-threat
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
December 16 2015 20:34 GMT
#53392
The only time I was worried about a defendant coming to find me was when we were dealing with sovereign citizens who didn't want to pay their bills or move out of property they didn't own. And getting any sheriff to serve legal paperwork on them in a nightmare.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
KwarK
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
United States44442 Posts
December 16 2015 20:42 GMT
#53393
On December 17 2015 05:34 Plansix wrote:
The only time I was worried about a defendant coming to find me was when we were dealing with sovereign citizens who didn't want to pay their bills or move out of property they didn't own. And getting any sheriff to serve legal paperwork on them in a nightmare.

Did their corporate entity own the property? And who were you trying to serve, the individual, the person or the corporate entity? Did you check the capitalization of their name, that often provides clues?
ModeratorThe angels have the phone box
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
December 16 2015 20:48 GMT
#53394
On December 17 2015 05:42 KwarK wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 17 2015 05:34 Plansix wrote:
The only time I was worried about a defendant coming to find me was when we were dealing with sovereign citizens who didn't want to pay their bills or move out of property they didn't own. And getting any sheriff to serve legal paperwork on them in a nightmare.

Did their corporate entity own the property? And who were you trying to serve, the individual, the person or the corporate entity? Did you check the capitalization of their name, that often provides clues?

They have demanded my death or banishment for attempting to contact them on the land they owned. They also cited the magna carta as proof my client had not power over them. One guy sent in 400 pages “documentation” proving his family line back to before the founding of the US, proving that his family and his rights to all claims predated any laws we were attempting to enforce. One issued a “warrant and legal bounty” out my attorney and me, which he attempted to publish in the local paper and Boston Globe. He then attempted to enjoin them into our case for failing to publish the “legal bounty” and have them banished, shut down or "their printing press ruled his legal property."

So yeah, it was all a nightmare and the sheriffs hated us for making them deal with these people. And all their power comes directly from the internet, because they all use the same legal bullshit.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
ticklishmusic
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
United States15977 Posts
December 16 2015 20:54 GMT
#53395
On December 17 2015 05:48 Plansix wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 17 2015 05:42 KwarK wrote:
On December 17 2015 05:34 Plansix wrote:
The only time I was worried about a defendant coming to find me was when we were dealing with sovereign citizens who didn't want to pay their bills or move out of property they didn't own. And getting any sheriff to serve legal paperwork on them in a nightmare.

Did their corporate entity own the property? And who were you trying to serve, the individual, the person or the corporate entity? Did you check the capitalization of their name, that often provides clues?

They have demanded my death or banishment for attempting to contact them on the land they owned. They also cited the magna carta as proof my client had not power over them. One guy sent in 400 pages “documentation” proving his family line back to before the founding of the US, proving that his family and his rights to all claims predated any laws we were attempting to enforce. One issued a “warrant and legal bounty” out my attorney and me, which he attempted to publish in the local paper and Boston Globe. He then attempted to enjoin them into our case for failing to publish the “legal bounty” and have them banished, shut down or "their printing press ruled his legal property."

So yeah, it was all a nightmare and the sheriffs hated us for making them deal with these people. And all their power comes directly from the internet, because they all use the same legal bullshit.

Why the hell would you cite the Magna Carta...
(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻
KwarK
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
United States44442 Posts
December 16 2015 20:56 GMT
#53396
They sound less hilarious if you have to interact with them. But the youtube videos of them in court are pretty good.

Incidentally my family tree goes back even longer than the history of the US. I can't trace it but I suspect it might even predate the Roman Empire. And the atoms I'm composed of are even older. You may be able to compel me the person to follow your laws but me, the collection of atoms, does not recognize any authority but physics.
ModeratorThe angels have the phone box
ticklishmusic
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
United States15977 Posts
December 16 2015 20:57 GMT
#53397
On December 17 2015 05:56 KwarK wrote:
They sound less hilarious if you have to interact with them. But the youtube videos of them in court are pretty good.

Incidentally my family tree goes back even longer than the history of the US. I can't trace it but I suspect it might even predate the Roman Empire. And the atoms I'm composed of are even older. You may be able to compel me the person to follow your laws but me, the collection of atoms, does not recognize any authority but physics.


I'm descended from Genghis Khan (more likely than not) so unless you want to me to rape and pillage your stuff you better piss off with that parking violation "mister" police officer.
(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
December 16 2015 20:58 GMT
#53398
Staffers on the Senate Intelligence Committee are looking into whether Sen. Ted Cruz (R-TX) disclosed classified information during the debate, according to the committee chair.

"I'm having my staff look at the transcripts of the debate right now," Sen. Richard Burr (R-NC), chairman of the Senate Intelligence Committee, told reporters on Wednesday, according to The Hill. "Any time you deal with numbers... the question is 'Is that classified or not?' or is there an open source reference to it."

While Rubio and Cruz were debating each other's records on national security and surveillance, Cruz got into some details about what the bulk data program covers.


"What he knows is that the old program covered 20 percent to 30 percent of phone numbers to search for terrorists," Cruz said, referring to Rubio. "The new program covers nearly 100 percent. That gives us greater ability to stop acts of terrorism, and he knows that that’s the case."

It's not clear if Cruz, who is unpopular with many of his Senate colleagues, revealed classified information. But in his response to Cruz, Rubio noted that he did not want to say too much about the program.

"Let me be very careful when answering this, because I don’t think national television in front of 15 million people is the place to discuss classified information," Rubio said. "So let me just be very clear. There is nothing that we are allowed to do under this bill that we could not do before."

And Roll Call noted that just after Cruz made that statement, Burr's communications director indicated that the Texas senator said too much.


Source
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-12-16 20:59:58
December 16 2015 20:58 GMT
#53399
On December 17 2015 05:54 ticklishmusic wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 17 2015 05:48 Plansix wrote:
On December 17 2015 05:42 KwarK wrote:
On December 17 2015 05:34 Plansix wrote:
The only time I was worried about a defendant coming to find me was when we were dealing with sovereign citizens who didn't want to pay their bills or move out of property they didn't own. And getting any sheriff to serve legal paperwork on them in a nightmare.

Did their corporate entity own the property? And who were you trying to serve, the individual, the person or the corporate entity? Did you check the capitalization of their name, that often provides clues?

They have demanded my death or banishment for attempting to contact them on the land they owned. They also cited the magna carta as proof my client had not power over them. One guy sent in 400 pages “documentation” proving his family line back to before the founding of the US, proving that his family and his rights to all claims predated any laws we were attempting to enforce. One issued a “warrant and legal bounty” out my attorney and me, which he attempted to publish in the local paper and Boston Globe. He then attempted to enjoin them into our case for failing to publish the “legal bounty” and have them banished, shut down or "their printing press ruled his legal property."

So yeah, it was all a nightmare and the sheriffs hated us for making them deal with these people. And all their power comes directly from the internet, because they all use the same legal bullshit.

Why the hell would you cite the Magna Carta...

That dude also asked for a judgment for "my weight in troy ounces of gold" but then realized that wasn't the 50 million he was asking for.

And the answer always is "the internet told them to". They work on 100% moon law and space logic. One of them was bared by the judge from filing anything with the court without his express approval after our case because all his filings were 400 pages with wax seals.

On December 17 2015 05:56 KwarK wrote:
They sound less hilarious if you have to interact with them. But the youtube videos of them in court are pretty good.

Incidentally my family tree goes back even longer than the history of the US. I can't trace it but I suspect it might even predate the Roman Empire. And the atoms I'm composed of are even older. You may be able to compel me the person to follow your laws but me, the collection of atoms, does not recognize any authority but physics.


They were super funny until one of them told me my fiancee's name during a call. Now I'm happy I don't deal with them.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
Falling
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
Canada11607 Posts
December 16 2015 21:15 GMT
#53400
Wow. You have so many strange movements I have never heard about before: dominionists, survivalists, militia movements, and now these sovereign citizens... except it turns out I guess we have our own version of them in the Freemen on the land movement. My curiosity is rather aroused as to this movement.
ModeratorWake me up when Trump's term is finished. Slava Ukraini.
Prev 1 2668 2669 2670 2671 2672 10093 Next
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 1h 34m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
SortOf 199
ProTech163
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 26663
Rain 3040
BeSt 384
Leta 373
Larva 331
ZerO 325
actioN 205
firebathero 178
Zeus 144
Stork 136
[ Show more ]
Rush 123
Light 119
EffOrt 101
Pusan 85
Jaedong 71
Shine 65
Barracks 63
Mini 61
910 49
Shinee 44
Bale 35
Free 28
Sharp 25
Aegong 18
ggaemo 18
soO 15
HiyA 13
yabsab 12
ZergMaN 11
sSak 10
Dota 2
monkeys_forever136
League of Legends
JimRising 370
Counter-Strike
olofmeister977
Other Games
summit1g10797
ceh9586
XaKoH 297
Lowko232
Fuzer 173
dupreeh137
KnowMe110
B2W.Neo95
NeuroSwarm64
Sick64
Railgan19
ZerO(Twitch)12
Organizations
Counter-Strike
PGL111
[ Show 10 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• LUISG 25
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• Migwel
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Stunt450
Upcoming Events
Ultimate Battle
1h 34m
Soma vs Royal
Replay Cast
12h 34m
Sparkling Tuna Cup
23h 34m
WardiTV Invitational
1d 1h
YoungYakov vs Lambo
SHIN vs TBD
Percival vs Shameless
Solar vs TBD
OSC
1d 12h
ByuN vs MaxPax
herO vs Krystianer
Percival vs Shameless
LetaleX vs YoungYakov
Nicoract vs Gerald
GgMaChine vs ArT
PiGosaur Cup
1d 14h
The PondCast
2 days
KCM Race Survival
2 days
WardiTV Invitational
3 days
CranKy Ducklings
4 days
[ Show More ]
IPSL
5 days
TerrOr vs IJ_Terran
rasowy vs Hazorath
Sparkling Tuna Cup
5 days
IPSL
6 days
Art_Of_Turtle vs KameZerg
Radley vs George
Replay Cast
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-11-06
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
HCC Season 3

Ongoing

Acropolis #5
KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 4
International ShieldBattery League
BSL Season 23
IPSL Winter 2026-27
Calamity Cup Div. A Season 8
IEM Beijing 2026
PGL Masters Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 5
1win Private Club #2
Thunderpick World Champ. '26
ESL Pro League Season 24
Stake Ranked Episode 4
1win Private Club #1
Logitech G Play Connect 2026
SL StarSeries Fall 2026
FISSURE Playground #3
BLAST Open Fall 2026

Upcoming

Sector 951
SC4ALL II: Brood War
BSL 23: Non-Korean Championship
HSC XXX
Stellar Fest 2: Lunar Cup
SC4ALL II: StarCraft II
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
RSL Offline Finals
Underdog Cup 2026 Div 2-3
PGL Bucharest 2027
BLAST Bounty Winter 2027
eXTREMESLAND 2026
PGL Major Singapore 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 6
BLAST Rivals Fall 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.