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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please.In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up! NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious. Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action. |
Well good thing then that the pilots were killed by the rebels Russia was bombing and not by Turkey.
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learn to read, they were shot by turkmen rebels. Turkmen != turkey.
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The best part about this whole thing is that the US doesn't need to pick. They both sort of suck, but we also sort of need to deal with them. As long as Putin doesn't roll tanks into Turkey like a crazy person, I'm all about Turkey taking some of the wind out of Russia's sails.
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But you said "Turkey shoots down Russian warplane and then executes the pilots".
Turkmen have lived in syria for over 500 years. They are not turkish nationals they are syrians. I don't agree with what they have done but Russia should have thought about that before bombing people who can't fight back against your jets.
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Cayman Islands24199 Posts
that 'turkmen rebels' are not directly turkish military (though probably has tight communication) but a proxy group is part of the comparison with the ukraine situation. it's highly unstable and liable to escalation.
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Okay my mistake.
Turkey shoots down Russian warplane and Turkmen execute pilots
And Turkmen are ethnic Turks in Syria.
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On November 25 2015 01:25 Deathstar wrote:
Okay my mistake.
Turkey shoots down Russian warplane and Turkmen execute pilots
And Turkmen are ethnic Turks in Syria.
If Turkmen are the responsibility of the Turkish government that the Ukrainian rebels are that of Russia and we all know Russia has no soldiers in the Ukraine...
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That Russia is bombing in support of Assad and his forces, rather than ISIS like Russia claims.
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On November 25 2015 01:27 Gorsameth wrote:Show nested quote +On November 25 2015 01:25 Deathstar wrote:
Okay my mistake.
Turkey shoots down Russian warplane and Turkmen execute pilots
And Turkmen are ethnic Turks in Syria. If Turkmen are the responsibility of the Turkish government that the Ukrainian rebels are that of Russia and we all know Russia has no soldiers in the Ukraine...
We already know that Russia is sending in Russian soldiers into Ukraine and that many Ukrainian rebels are straight up Russian soldiers.
Time will tell, but Turkmen are surely the responsibility of the Turkish government if Turkey is training and supplying the Turkmen. Oh wait...
Like the US and Britain, Turkey says Russian forces have been predominantly targeting a range of anti-Assad rebel groups inside Syria, rather than concentrating their fire on Islamic State forces. Turkey also regards the areas in north-west Syria held by the Bayır-Bucak Turkmens as an important buffer preventing the territorial expansion of Syria’s Kurdish minority militias, whom it regards as terrorists linked to the Kurdistan Workers’ party (PKK).
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Turkey’s National Intelligence Organisation (MIT) was accused of involvement in clandestine arms shipments to Turkmen forces earlier this year. The Cumhuriyet newspaper published a report on arms smuggling on 29 May that included images of weapons allegedly carried by trucks operated by MIT.
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/nov/24/turkey-caught-between-aiding-turkmen-and-economic-dependence-on-russia
The relationship between the Turkmen and Turkey are pretty clear. Turkmen are a military arm of the Turkish government. Turkmen are not independent actors.
More information will come out today and tomorrow. But as of now, the case against Turkey is pretty damning.
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So if the Ukrainian rebels are the responsibility of Russia, what about the passenger plane they shot down?
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On November 25 2015 01:43 Plansix wrote:
So if the Ukrainian rebels are the responsibility of Russia, what about the passenger plane they shot down?
Think Russia is still trying to deny that one.
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I would expect nothing less from Putin's Russia.
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Let's briefly be clear here, erdogan is not better or worse than putin. They're actually pretty much the same, and the same is to be expected from both. Both would lie, kill, and manipulate to hide facts.
So, i don't really see the issue here. Putin brought that on himself with constant violations of airspaces all over europe, they gave turkey the excuse they needed themselves.
Funny that they complain now though, if i touch 10 ovens and the 7th is actually on, burning me, i should not complain about the oven being on, but think about how retarded it is to touch them in the first place.
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On November 25 2015 01:13 Plansix wrote:
The best part about this whole thing is that the US doesn't need to pick. They both sort of suck, but we also sort of need to deal with them. As long as Putin doesn't roll tanks into Turkey like a crazy person, I'm all about Turkey taking some of the wind out of Russia's sails.
You realize that Turkey is part of NATO and therefore the US (and Europe for that matter) indeed doesn't need to pick, because we are bound by treaty to Turkey already.
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World leaders are scheduled to meet in Paris soon, trying to draft an agreement on how to combat climate change. Among the heads of state, you'll also see California Gov. Jerry Brown, who is spearheading his own international climate movement.
Brown has been on an international diplomatic tour the last few months — all about climate change.
"The world faces an existential threat," he told Canadian leaders in July.
Then, he went to the Vatican. "Whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap," he said.
And he met with Chinese leaders in September. The reason for all these meetings? "Troglodytes," he says. That's what Brown calls those who doubt climate change.
"The Republican Congress and all of the Republican candidates are in very deep state of denial despite the vast, vast overwhelming scientific consensus," he says.
Brown says the political stalemate in Washington, D.C., has left a huge void on climate change.
"Somebody has to wake up the country to the real danger," he says.
And that somebody is California, he says. Brown has been brokering his own international climate agreement — not with other countries, but with regional governments, including states and provinces in Brazil, Germany and Mexico. They've agreed to cut their emissions 80 percent or more by mid-century.
"That's more than the nation-states," he says.
It's not a binding promise to cut emissions. But Brown says the more than 50 signatories represent what would be the largest economy in the world. And he's bringing their message to the Paris climate conference.
Source
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On November 25 2015 02:43 ACrow wrote:Show nested quote +On November 25 2015 01:13 Plansix wrote:
The best part about this whole thing is that the US doesn't need to pick. They both sort of suck, but we also sort of need to deal with them. As long as Putin doesn't roll tanks into Turkey like a crazy person, I'm all about Turkey taking some of the wind out of Russia's sails. You realize that Turkey is part of NATO and therefore the US (and Europe for that matter) indeed doesn't need to pick, because we are bound by treaty to Turkey already.
Yes, I am aware of that, which is why I feel confident it won't happen. I thought that was kinda clear by the comment about tanks at the end.
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Ben Carson continued to walk back his assertion on Monday night that, like Donald Trump, he also saw video footage of Muslims in New Jersey celebrating the collapse of the World Trade Center on 9/11, blaming the media in the process for having “an agenda.”
“Well what we were talking about was the reaction of Muslims after the 9/11 attack, and if they were in a celebratory mood,” the retired neurosurgeon and current Republican candidate told Fox News’ “The Kelly File.” “And you know, I was really focusing on that it was an inappropriate thing to do, no matter where they were. They asked me: Did I see the film? I did see the film. I don’t know where they were, but I did see a film of Muslims celebrating. And I was making the point that it was inappropriate.”
Asked whether he would admit to a lack of caution in answering the question from reporters, Carson said he would.
“Yeah, yeah. I thought we were just talking about the fact that Muslims were inappropriately celebrating,” he said. “I didn’t know that they had an agenda behind the question.”
Carson then said that he had not heard Trump's remarks in which he claimed to have seen “thousands” of people “cheering” and tailgating across the river from the smoldering rubble of the twin towers in lower Manhattan in September 2001.
Source
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Eh, who cares? It was documented at the time that "some" (though not "thousands") Muslims celebrated in New Jersey on 9/11, and there certainly was no shortage of video of Muslims in other countries celebrating in large numbers that day.
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Cayman Islands24199 Posts
lots of nonmuslims in brooklyn talking about jews bombing the wtc and whatnot. lunatic and dangerous conspiracies are not limited to muslims. there is just an organization out there able to take advantage of them.
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EPT
