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On November 20 2015 11:49 Kickstart wrote:Show nested quote +On November 20 2015 11:47 Plansix wrote:On November 20 2015 11:42 Kickstart wrote:On November 20 2015 11:38 Plansix wrote:On November 20 2015 11:31 Kickstart wrote:On November 20 2015 11:27 Plansix wrote:On November 20 2015 11:25 Kickstart wrote:On November 20 2015 11:21 Plansix wrote:On November 20 2015 11:18 Kickstart wrote:On November 20 2015 11:09 Plansix wrote:
[quote]
The whole point of offensive is its based on someone else's rational and that doesn't invalidate it. There are no set rules that you can follow to assure you are "ok" with a costume. In a general sense, if you are thinking "this might offend someone" then it likely will because you thought of it. As long as you are willing to say "I'm sorry, I wasn't aware this would offend you. If I was, I wouldn't have done it," not dig your heels in and become defensive, you should be fine.
The problem comes when people go the road of "I"m wearing this and it shouldn't offend you," with the full knowledge that it likely will. And that is where some colleges are at, expanded out across a lot of campus interactions. There was a black student interviewed recently that talked about white female students touching her hair without asking, because they had never "seen hair like that". And classically they could get upset if voiced her disapproval. The classic "I'm going to do/say this thing and you shouldn't be offended."
Edit: Ah, the classic Stephen Fry quote. The response to that is "You first". How do you square this with the idea of free speech? People are allowed to say or write any number of inflammatory things and this is protected speech. How is a costume any different? I agree costumes can be offensive to some and in poor taste, but that says nothing about the fact that people should still have the right to wear whatever costume they want. And the "You first"response makes no sense. I am aware of how free speech works. This isn't about the government stopping you from doing anything, so its not relevant to the matter at hand. We are not discussing that. We are discussion interactions between people. I know you are aware, that's why I am asking you why in your mind they should work differently. Why should people be able to say whatever they want, but not be allowed to wear whatever they want? Are they not both forms of expressing oneself? Again, my point is that you being offended about it does literally nothing. Social norms already dictate that certain costumes or certain speech is offensive and in poor taste and you can be sure that someone who says certain things or wears certain costumes will face consequences for doing so. I mean it just goes back to my original point. You lot are whining about some costumes being offensive, so my question is "so what", as in, what do you think should be done about it. We were not whining, we were discussing. You don't get to decided was offends others. I can see this is going nowhere. It is the same line you give for any such issue. I am aware that I don't get to decide what others find offensive. My question, for the nth time, is what do you think should be done. I already granted you that some costumes are offensive, we don't disagree there. I just don't understand how this 'discussion' you claim to be having is more than a whine when all you are saying is "this and that are offensive". What isn't being done now that should be happening in your mind. I would posit that there is nothing that should be done that doesn't already happen, so there is little point in getting all bent out of shape over it. I disagree, people should talk and have an understanding on what is and isn't offensive. You can't stop people from offending others, but the dialog that results can be less defensive and not laced with denial of the offense. But again we get into sticky territory here. Some people won't agree on what is offensive. I've seen some people say that men who dress as woman for Halloween is offensive, and I think that anyone who finds that offensive is a moron. If I dressed as a woman for whatever reason ( I wouldn't), and someone told me it offended them, I would think they are a moron no matter the reason for their offense, and I would not think I should change my costume. If someone dresses as a black character and paints their face black, I don't see that as being offensive. If someone dressed up in what we call 'blackface', then yes, that is offensive. And the response to that is "don't be an asshole". If someone is offended by what you do, you have two options: 1: Let them know you feel they shouldn't' be offended. 2: Say that you are sorry you offended them and that you wouldn't have done it if you knew it would have. I know which why I respond, but that is me. Again it seems we don't disagree that much. My response would be a mixture of both. "I am sorry that you are offended as that was not my intent, but I think you may be a bit too sensitive" or something to that effect.
You saying that they're too sensitive is essentially the same as telling them that the reason why they're upset isn't important.
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2nd Worst City in CA8938 Posts
On November 20 2015 11:52 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On November 20 2015 11:49 Kickstart wrote:On November 20 2015 11:47 Plansix wrote:On November 20 2015 11:42 Kickstart wrote:On November 20 2015 11:38 Plansix wrote:On November 20 2015 11:31 Kickstart wrote:On November 20 2015 11:27 Plansix wrote:On November 20 2015 11:25 Kickstart wrote:On November 20 2015 11:21 Plansix wrote:On November 20 2015 11:18 Kickstart wrote:
[quote]
How do you square this with the idea of free speech? People are allowed to say or write any number of inflammatory things and this is protected speech. How is a costume any different? I agree costumes can be offensive to some and in poor taste, but that says nothing about the fact that people should still have the right to wear whatever costume they want.
And the "You first"response makes no sense. I am aware of how free speech works. This isn't about the government stopping you from doing anything, so its not relevant to the matter at hand. We are not discussing that. We are discussion interactions between people. I know you are aware, that's why I am asking you why in your mind they should work differently. Why should people be able to say whatever they want, but not be allowed to wear whatever they want? Are they not both forms of expressing oneself? Again, my point is that you being offended about it does literally nothing. Social norms already dictate that certain costumes or certain speech is offensive and in poor taste and you can be sure that someone who says certain things or wears certain costumes will face consequences for doing so. I mean it just goes back to my original point. You lot are whining about some costumes being offensive, so my question is "so what", as in, what do you think should be done about it. We were not whining, we were discussing. You don't get to decided was offends others. I can see this is going nowhere. It is the same line you give for any such issue. I am aware that I don't get to decide what others find offensive. My question, for the nth time, is what do you think should be done. I already granted you that some costumes are offensive, we don't disagree there. I just don't understand how this 'discussion' you claim to be having is more than a whine when all you are saying is "this and that are offensive". What isn't being done now that should be happening in your mind. I would posit that there is nothing that should be done that doesn't already happen, so there is little point in getting all bent out of shape over it. I disagree, people should talk and have an understanding on what is and isn't offensive. You can't stop people from offending others, but the dialog that results can be less defensive and not laced with denial of the offense. But again we get into sticky territory here. Some people won't agree on what is offensive. I've seen some people say that men who dress as woman for Halloween is offensive, and I think that anyone who finds that offensive is a moron. If I dressed as a woman for whatever reason ( I wouldn't), and someone told me it offended them, I would think they are a moron no matter the reason for their offense, and I would not think I should change my costume. If someone dresses as a black character and paints their face black, I don't see that as being offensive. If someone dressed up in what we call 'blackface', then yes, that is offensive. And the response to that is "don't be an asshole". If someone is offended by what you do, you have two options: 1: Let them know you feel they shouldn't' be offended. 2: Say that you are sorry you offended them and that you wouldn't have done it if you knew it would have. I know which why I respond, but that is me. Again it seems we don't disagree that much. My response would be a mixture of both. "I am sorry that you are offended as that was not my intent, but I think you may be a bit too sensitive" or something to that effect. But you're not really sorry. You don't value their feels or perspective, because if you did you would leave that last part off.
Erh you're taking it a little too far now. For someone who says someone can't say what offends others, I think it's a little hypocritical of you to tell him he's not actually sorry.
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On November 20 2015 11:48 Kickstart wrote:Show nested quote +On November 20 2015 11:41 GreenHorizons wrote:Yeah I could imagine going as a US pilot covered in dead babies (dolls) would get the same people arguing "people are just whining that it hurts their feelings and it doesn't matter, they should just get over it" Surely you wouldn't see outrage on every right leaning site around talking about how the disrespect is unacceptable... It really astonishes me how oblivious some folks can be. Anyway on today's "Why bigots are making everything worse" NEW YORK -- The US is racked with fear and paranoia. Following last week's attacks in Paris, a raft of ugly sentiment has surfaced from across the political right demonising not only Syrian refugees but anyone who professes to follow the Islamic faith.
The fear was stoked on Tuesday when Republican governors from Alabama, Arkansas, Arizona, Florida, Georgia, Kansas, Illinois, Iowa, Indiana, Maine, Michigan, Mississippi, Nebraska, New Mexico, South Carolina, Tennessee and Texas signed a pledge promising to ban refugees from being resettled in their states. Constitutional experts suggest such a ban would be illegal, but the move is symbolic of the type of rightwing rhetoric infecting the country following the massacre in France.
Also on Tuesday, Republican presidential candidate Jeb Bush suggested there should be a religious test for entry into the United States -- if you're Christian you're in, if you're Muslim you're out. How this test would be administred, the younger Bush failed to answer.
This type of overt bigotry was quickly reflected in the populace when on Wednesday a man interrupted a presentation for the building of a new mosque in Virginia, lambasting the speaker with racist abuse. “All Muslims are terrorists,” he shouted at Samer Shalaby, who was presenting the plans.
“I’ll do everything in my power to make sure that does not happen," he continued. "We don’t want it because you are terrorists. Every one of you are terrorists. I don’t care what you say. You can smile at me. You can say whatever you want, but every Muslim is a terrorist.” (audience applauds) Source Indeed some people are oblivious. You don't think people dressed as suicide bombers after 9/11? They did. People even host parties for 'most offensive costumes'. I bet that blows your mind. People can wear things that they know are offensive and have a laugh about it. This "I bet if the thing in question offended right wing sensibilities" is amusing and pretty vapid.
Yeah they still are.
Doesn't blow my mind in the slightest.
Point is when it does offend right wing sensibilities almost all of the people calling out these folks as "whiners" change their tune or stay silent.
You'll have week after week of the "war on Christmas" this year but how many religious freedom folk are going to stand up for the Muslims of that community?
You can't find any group expressing concerns about the way they are being mistreated without white (usually men) coming in and pointing out how hard it is for them to deal with acknowledging that mistreatment if not outright dismissing it.
One day in the not too distant future it will be a lot more clear when the counter arguments aren't just whining about losing the dominance over culture but actually having to deal with structural remnants of oppression turned on them as they become a minority.
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On November 20 2015 11:52 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On November 20 2015 11:49 Kickstart wrote:On November 20 2015 11:47 Plansix wrote:On November 20 2015 11:42 Kickstart wrote:On November 20 2015 11:38 Plansix wrote:On November 20 2015 11:31 Kickstart wrote:On November 20 2015 11:27 Plansix wrote:On November 20 2015 11:25 Kickstart wrote:On November 20 2015 11:21 Plansix wrote:On November 20 2015 11:18 Kickstart wrote:
[quote]
How do you square this with the idea of free speech? People are allowed to say or write any number of inflammatory things and this is protected speech. How is a costume any different? I agree costumes can be offensive to some and in poor taste, but that says nothing about the fact that people should still have the right to wear whatever costume they want.
And the "You first"response makes no sense. I am aware of how free speech works. This isn't about the government stopping you from doing anything, so its not relevant to the matter at hand. We are not discussing that. We are discussion interactions between people. I know you are aware, that's why I am asking you why in your mind they should work differently. Why should people be able to say whatever they want, but not be allowed to wear whatever they want? Are they not both forms of expressing oneself? Again, my point is that you being offended about it does literally nothing. Social norms already dictate that certain costumes or certain speech is offensive and in poor taste and you can be sure that someone who says certain things or wears certain costumes will face consequences for doing so. I mean it just goes back to my original point. You lot are whining about some costumes being offensive, so my question is "so what", as in, what do you think should be done about it. We were not whining, we were discussing. You don't get to decided was offends others. I can see this is going nowhere. It is the same line you give for any such issue. I am aware that I don't get to decide what others find offensive. My question, for the nth time, is what do you think should be done. I already granted you that some costumes are offensive, we don't disagree there. I just don't understand how this 'discussion' you claim to be having is more than a whine when all you are saying is "this and that are offensive". What isn't being done now that should be happening in your mind. I would posit that there is nothing that should be done that doesn't already happen, so there is little point in getting all bent out of shape over it. I disagree, people should talk and have an understanding on what is and isn't offensive. You can't stop people from offending others, but the dialog that results can be less defensive and not laced with denial of the offense. But again we get into sticky territory here. Some people won't agree on what is offensive. I've seen some people say that men who dress as woman for Halloween is offensive, and I think that anyone who finds that offensive is a moron. If I dressed as a woman for whatever reason ( I wouldn't), and someone told me it offended them, I would think they are a moron no matter the reason for their offense, and I would not think I should change my costume. If someone dresses as a black character and paints their face black, I don't see that as being offensive. If someone dressed up in what we call 'blackface', then yes, that is offensive. And the response to that is "don't be an asshole". If someone is offended by what you do, you have two options: 1: Let them know you feel they shouldn't' be offended. 2: Say that you are sorry you offended them and that you wouldn't have done it if you knew it would have. I know which why I respond, but that is me. Again it seems we don't disagree that much. My response would be a mixture of both. "I am sorry that you are offended as that was not my intent, but I think you may be a bit too sensitive" or something to that effect. But you're not really sorry. You don't value their feels or perspective, because if you did you would leave that last part off.
I actually consider myself a rather empathetic person. I just think that if you are easily offended by costumes you shouldn't put yourself in a situation where you are likely to encounter such a costume. To me it is akin to being offended by homosexuality and then going to a gay pride parade and yelling at people with a loudspeaker.
Or if you are offended by antisemitic speech you shouldn't read publications by WAR or something (is that even still a thing).
But you are right in that I am not sorry that I wore the costume, I am still sorry that their feelings are hurt, but in my mind the issue isn't my costume it is that in such an instance they would be too sensitive. (take the example of if I dressed as a woman and someone came up to me and said they found it offensive. I would apologize that they were offended but I still wouldn't think anything was wrong with my costume).
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On November 20 2015 11:57 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On November 20 2015 11:48 Kickstart wrote:On November 20 2015 11:41 GreenHorizons wrote:Yeah I could imagine going as a US pilot covered in dead babies (dolls) would get the same people arguing "people are just whining that it hurts their feelings and it doesn't matter, they should just get over it" Surely you wouldn't see outrage on every right leaning site around talking about how the disrespect is unacceptable... It really astonishes me how oblivious some folks can be. Anyway on today's "Why bigots are making everything worse" NEW YORK -- The US is racked with fear and paranoia. Following last week's attacks in Paris, a raft of ugly sentiment has surfaced from across the political right demonising not only Syrian refugees but anyone who professes to follow the Islamic faith.
The fear was stoked on Tuesday when Republican governors from Alabama, Arkansas, Arizona, Florida, Georgia, Kansas, Illinois, Iowa, Indiana, Maine, Michigan, Mississippi, Nebraska, New Mexico, South Carolina, Tennessee and Texas signed a pledge promising to ban refugees from being resettled in their states. Constitutional experts suggest such a ban would be illegal, but the move is symbolic of the type of rightwing rhetoric infecting the country following the massacre in France.
Also on Tuesday, Republican presidential candidate Jeb Bush suggested there should be a religious test for entry into the United States -- if you're Christian you're in, if you're Muslim you're out. How this test would be administred, the younger Bush failed to answer.
This type of overt bigotry was quickly reflected in the populace when on Wednesday a man interrupted a presentation for the building of a new mosque in Virginia, lambasting the speaker with racist abuse. “All Muslims are terrorists,” he shouted at Samer Shalaby, who was presenting the plans.
“I’ll do everything in my power to make sure that does not happen," he continued. "We don’t want it because you are terrorists. Every one of you are terrorists. I don’t care what you say. You can smile at me. You can say whatever you want, but every Muslim is a terrorist.” (audience applauds) Source Indeed some people are oblivious. You don't think people dressed as suicide bombers after 9/11? They did. People even host parties for 'most offensive costumes'. I bet that blows your mind. People can wear things that they know are offensive and have a laugh about it. This "I bet if the thing in question offended right wing sensibilities" is amusing and pretty vapid. Yeah they still are. Doesn't blow my mind in the slightest. Point is when it does offend right wing sensibilities almost all of the people calling out these folks as "whiners" change their tune or stay silent. You'll have week after week of the "war on Christmas" this year but how many religious freedom folk are going to stand up for the Muslims of that community? You can't find any group expressing concerns about the way they are being mistreated without white (usually men) coming in and pointing out how hard it is for them to deal with acknowledging that mistreatment if not outright dismissing it. One day in the not too distant future it will be a lot more clear when the counter arguments aren't just whining about losing the dominance over culture but actually having to deal with structural remnants of oppression turned on them as they become a minority.
Guess I am a strange individual then. I find the 'war on christmas' thing about as ridiculous as the 'don't wear certain costumes' thing. I would also posit that my line of thought isn't that there isn't racism or offensive costumes etc, but that there is a tendency for the affected parties to whine instead of offer up anything of substance. Letting people know that there is something wrong or that something offends you is fine to an extent, but at some point you have to move on to something constructive, instead of stating that over and over again.
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On November 20 2015 11:57 Kickstart wrote:Show nested quote +On November 20 2015 11:52 Plansix wrote:On November 20 2015 11:49 Kickstart wrote:On November 20 2015 11:47 Plansix wrote:On November 20 2015 11:42 Kickstart wrote:On November 20 2015 11:38 Plansix wrote:On November 20 2015 11:31 Kickstart wrote:On November 20 2015 11:27 Plansix wrote:On November 20 2015 11:25 Kickstart wrote:On November 20 2015 11:21 Plansix wrote:
[quote]
I am aware of how free speech works. This isn't about the government stopping you from doing anything, so its not relevant to the matter at hand. We are not discussing that. We are discussion interactions between people. I know you are aware, that's why I am asking you why in your mind they should work differently. Why should people be able to say whatever they want, but not be allowed to wear whatever they want? Are they not both forms of expressing oneself? Again, my point is that you being offended about it does literally nothing. Social norms already dictate that certain costumes or certain speech is offensive and in poor taste and you can be sure that someone who says certain things or wears certain costumes will face consequences for doing so. I mean it just goes back to my original point. You lot are whining about some costumes being offensive, so my question is "so what", as in, what do you think should be done about it. We were not whining, we were discussing. You don't get to decided was offends others. I can see this is going nowhere. It is the same line you give for any such issue. I am aware that I don't get to decide what others find offensive. My question, for the nth time, is what do you think should be done. I already granted you that some costumes are offensive, we don't disagree there. I just don't understand how this 'discussion' you claim to be having is more than a whine when all you are saying is "this and that are offensive". What isn't being done now that should be happening in your mind. I would posit that there is nothing that should be done that doesn't already happen, so there is little point in getting all bent out of shape over it. I disagree, people should talk and have an understanding on what is and isn't offensive. You can't stop people from offending others, but the dialog that results can be less defensive and not laced with denial of the offense. But again we get into sticky territory here. Some people won't agree on what is offensive. I've seen some people say that men who dress as woman for Halloween is offensive, and I think that anyone who finds that offensive is a moron. If I dressed as a woman for whatever reason ( I wouldn't), and someone told me it offended them, I would think they are a moron no matter the reason for their offense, and I would not think I should change my costume. If someone dresses as a black character and paints their face black, I don't see that as being offensive. If someone dressed up in what we call 'blackface', then yes, that is offensive. And the response to that is "don't be an asshole". If someone is offended by what you do, you have two options: 1: Let them know you feel they shouldn't' be offended. 2: Say that you are sorry you offended them and that you wouldn't have done it if you knew it would have. I know which why I respond, but that is me. Again it seems we don't disagree that much. My response would be a mixture of both. "I am sorry that you are offended as that was not my intent, but I think you may be a bit too sensitive" or something to that effect. But you're not really sorry. You don't value their feels or perspective, because if you did you would leave that last part off. I actually consider myself a rather empathetic person. I just think that if you are easily offended by costumes you shouldn't put yourself in a situation where you are likely to encounter such a costume. To me it is akin to being offended by homosexuality and then going to a gay pride parade and yelling at people with a loudspeaker. Or if you are offended by antisemitic speech you shouldn't read publications by WAR or something (is that even still a thing). But you are right in that I am not sorry that I wore the costume, I am still sorry that their feelings are hurt, but I think the in my mind the issue isn't my costume it is that in such an instance they would be too sensitive. (take the example of if I dressed as a woman and someone came up to me and said they found it offensive. I would apologize that they were offended but I still wouldn't think anything was wrong with my costume).
The problem is that you want a get out of jail free card for this. You want to be able wear/say anything you want, but also be seen as respectful and empathetic. And that is impossible, you can't have both. The offended party won't treat you with respect because you clearly don't respect them and their perspective.
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On November 20 2015 12:03 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On November 20 2015 11:57 Kickstart wrote:On November 20 2015 11:52 Plansix wrote:On November 20 2015 11:49 Kickstart wrote:On November 20 2015 11:47 Plansix wrote:On November 20 2015 11:42 Kickstart wrote:On November 20 2015 11:38 Plansix wrote:On November 20 2015 11:31 Kickstart wrote:On November 20 2015 11:27 Plansix wrote:On November 20 2015 11:25 Kickstart wrote:
[quote]
I know you are aware, that's why I am asking you why in your mind they should work differently. Why should people be able to say whatever they want, but not be allowed to wear whatever they want? Are they not both forms of expressing oneself?
Again, my point is that you being offended about it does literally nothing. Social norms already dictate that certain costumes or certain speech is offensive and in poor taste and you can be sure that someone who says certain things or wears certain costumes will face consequences for doing so.
I mean it just goes back to my original point. You lot are whining about some costumes being offensive, so my question is "so what", as in, what do you think should be done about it.
We were not whining, we were discussing. You don't get to decided was offends others. I can see this is going nowhere. It is the same line you give for any such issue. I am aware that I don't get to decide what others find offensive. My question, for the nth time, is what do you think should be done. I already granted you that some costumes are offensive, we don't disagree there. I just don't understand how this 'discussion' you claim to be having is more than a whine when all you are saying is "this and that are offensive". What isn't being done now that should be happening in your mind. I would posit that there is nothing that should be done that doesn't already happen, so there is little point in getting all bent out of shape over it. I disagree, people should talk and have an understanding on what is and isn't offensive. You can't stop people from offending others, but the dialog that results can be less defensive and not laced with denial of the offense. But again we get into sticky territory here. Some people won't agree on what is offensive. I've seen some people say that men who dress as woman for Halloween is offensive, and I think that anyone who finds that offensive is a moron. If I dressed as a woman for whatever reason ( I wouldn't), and someone told me it offended them, I would think they are a moron no matter the reason for their offense, and I would not think I should change my costume. If someone dresses as a black character and paints their face black, I don't see that as being offensive. If someone dressed up in what we call 'blackface', then yes, that is offensive. And the response to that is "don't be an asshole". If someone is offended by what you do, you have two options: 1: Let them know you feel they shouldn't' be offended. 2: Say that you are sorry you offended them and that you wouldn't have done it if you knew it would have. I know which why I respond, but that is me. Again it seems we don't disagree that much. My response would be a mixture of both. "I am sorry that you are offended as that was not my intent, but I think you may be a bit too sensitive" or something to that effect. But you're not really sorry. You don't value their feels or perspective, because if you did you would leave that last part off. I actually consider myself a rather empathetic person. I just think that if you are easily offended by costumes you shouldn't put yourself in a situation where you are likely to encounter such a costume. To me it is akin to being offended by homosexuality and then going to a gay pride parade and yelling at people with a loudspeaker. Or if you are offended by antisemitic speech you shouldn't read publications by WAR or something (is that even still a thing). But you are right in that I am not sorry that I wore the costume, I am still sorry that their feelings are hurt, but I think the in my mind the issue isn't my costume it is that in such an instance they would be too sensitive. (take the example of if I dressed as a woman and someone came up to me and said they found it offensive. I would apologize that they were offended but I still wouldn't think anything was wrong with my costume). The problem is that you want a get out of jail free card for this. You want to be able wear/say anything you want, but also be seen as respectful and empathetic. And that is impossible, you can't have both. The offended party won't treat you with respect because you clearly don't respect them and their perspective.
Perhaps. But then everyone is like that. If someone is offended by something that I find perfectly reasonable then you are quite right, I probably am not going to think much of their opinion on the matter. But you do the same thing. What is your response to people who are offended by same sex couples? Oh that's right, you tell them to get over it.
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On November 20 2015 12:06 Kickstart wrote:Show nested quote +On November 20 2015 12:03 Plansix wrote:On November 20 2015 11:57 Kickstart wrote:On November 20 2015 11:52 Plansix wrote:On November 20 2015 11:49 Kickstart wrote:On November 20 2015 11:47 Plansix wrote:On November 20 2015 11:42 Kickstart wrote:On November 20 2015 11:38 Plansix wrote:On November 20 2015 11:31 Kickstart wrote:On November 20 2015 11:27 Plansix wrote:
[quote]
We were not whining, we were discussing. You don't get to decided was offends others. I can see this is going nowhere. It is the same line you give for any such issue. I am aware that I don't get to decide what others find offensive. My question, for the nth time, is what do you think should be done. I already granted you that some costumes are offensive, we don't disagree there. I just don't understand how this 'discussion' you claim to be having is more than a whine when all you are saying is "this and that are offensive". What isn't being done now that should be happening in your mind. I would posit that there is nothing that should be done that doesn't already happen, so there is little point in getting all bent out of shape over it. I disagree, people should talk and have an understanding on what is and isn't offensive. You can't stop people from offending others, but the dialog that results can be less defensive and not laced with denial of the offense. But again we get into sticky territory here. Some people won't agree on what is offensive. I've seen some people say that men who dress as woman for Halloween is offensive, and I think that anyone who finds that offensive is a moron. If I dressed as a woman for whatever reason ( I wouldn't), and someone told me it offended them, I would think they are a moron no matter the reason for their offense, and I would not think I should change my costume. If someone dresses as a black character and paints their face black, I don't see that as being offensive. If someone dressed up in what we call 'blackface', then yes, that is offensive. And the response to that is "don't be an asshole". If someone is offended by what you do, you have two options: 1: Let them know you feel they shouldn't' be offended. 2: Say that you are sorry you offended them and that you wouldn't have done it if you knew it would have. I know which why I respond, but that is me. Again it seems we don't disagree that much. My response would be a mixture of both. "I am sorry that you are offended as that was not my intent, but I think you may be a bit too sensitive" or something to that effect. But you're not really sorry. You don't value their feels or perspective, because if you did you would leave that last part off. I actually consider myself a rather empathetic person. I just think that if you are easily offended by costumes you shouldn't put yourself in a situation where you are likely to encounter such a costume. To me it is akin to being offended by homosexuality and then going to a gay pride parade and yelling at people with a loudspeaker. Or if you are offended by antisemitic speech you shouldn't read publications by WAR or something (is that even still a thing). But you are right in that I am not sorry that I wore the costume, I am still sorry that their feelings are hurt, but I think the in my mind the issue isn't my costume it is that in such an instance they would be too sensitive. (take the example of if I dressed as a woman and someone came up to me and said they found it offensive. I would apologize that they were offended but I still wouldn't think anything was wrong with my costume). The problem is that you want a get out of jail free card for this. You want to be able wear/say anything you want, but also be seen as respectful and empathetic. And that is impossible, you can't have both. The offended party won't treat you with respect because you clearly don't respect them and their perspective. Perhaps. But then everyone is like that. If someone is offended by something that I find perfectly reasonable then you are quite right, I probably am not going to think much of their opinion on the matter. But you do the same thing. What is your response to people who are offended by same sex couples? Oh that's right, you tell them to get over it.
If people are offended by same sex couples, I'm not going to tell them they shouldn't be unless they ask. But being gay isn't a costume either, so its a different subject. People can't choose not to be gay. People can pick out not racist costumes.
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On November 20 2015 12:02 Kickstart wrote:Show nested quote +On November 20 2015 11:57 GreenHorizons wrote:On November 20 2015 11:48 Kickstart wrote:On November 20 2015 11:41 GreenHorizons wrote:Yeah I could imagine going as a US pilot covered in dead babies (dolls) would get the same people arguing "people are just whining that it hurts their feelings and it doesn't matter, they should just get over it" Surely you wouldn't see outrage on every right leaning site around talking about how the disrespect is unacceptable... It really astonishes me how oblivious some folks can be. Anyway on today's "Why bigots are making everything worse" NEW YORK -- The US is racked with fear and paranoia. Following last week's attacks in Paris, a raft of ugly sentiment has surfaced from across the political right demonising not only Syrian refugees but anyone who professes to follow the Islamic faith.
The fear was stoked on Tuesday when Republican governors from Alabama, Arkansas, Arizona, Florida, Georgia, Kansas, Illinois, Iowa, Indiana, Maine, Michigan, Mississippi, Nebraska, New Mexico, South Carolina, Tennessee and Texas signed a pledge promising to ban refugees from being resettled in their states. Constitutional experts suggest such a ban would be illegal, but the move is symbolic of the type of rightwing rhetoric infecting the country following the massacre in France.
Also on Tuesday, Republican presidential candidate Jeb Bush suggested there should be a religious test for entry into the United States -- if you're Christian you're in, if you're Muslim you're out. How this test would be administred, the younger Bush failed to answer.
This type of overt bigotry was quickly reflected in the populace when on Wednesday a man interrupted a presentation for the building of a new mosque in Virginia, lambasting the speaker with racist abuse. “All Muslims are terrorists,” he shouted at Samer Shalaby, who was presenting the plans.
“I’ll do everything in my power to make sure that does not happen," he continued. "We don’t want it because you are terrorists. Every one of you are terrorists. I don’t care what you say. You can smile at me. You can say whatever you want, but every Muslim is a terrorist.” (audience applauds) Source Indeed some people are oblivious. You don't think people dressed as suicide bombers after 9/11? They did. People even host parties for 'most offensive costumes'. I bet that blows your mind. People can wear things that they know are offensive and have a laugh about it. This "I bet if the thing in question offended right wing sensibilities" is amusing and pretty vapid. Yeah they still are. Doesn't blow my mind in the slightest. Point is when it does offend right wing sensibilities almost all of the people calling out these folks as "whiners" change their tune or stay silent. You'll have week after week of the "war on Christmas" this year but how many religious freedom folk are going to stand up for the Muslims of that community? You can't find any group expressing concerns about the way they are being mistreated without white (usually men) coming in and pointing out how hard it is for them to deal with acknowledging that mistreatment if not outright dismissing it. One day in the not too distant future it will be a lot more clear when the counter arguments aren't just whining about losing the dominance over culture but actually having to deal with structural remnants of oppression turned on them as they become a minority. Guess I am a strange individual then. I find the 'war on christmas' thing about as ridiculous as the 'don't wear certain costumes' thing. I would also posit that my line of thought isn't that there isn't racism or offensive costumes etc, but that there is a tendency for the affected parties to whine instead of offer up anything of substance. Letting people know that there is something wrong or that something offends you is fine to an extent, but at some point you have to move on to something constructive, instead of stating that over and over again.
The simple part is that it's almost universally offensive to black folks (rationally or not) it's reasonable to sacrifice your ability to dress as black entertainment figures (there's a shit ton of white ones to choose from) and be happy you don't have to deal with all the crap that comes with not being able to choose when you're black.
The most basic part of why it is offensive is that being black isn't something people get to do for fun, while not addressing the systemic and institutional racism that is the American system.
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On November 20 2015 11:49 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On November 20 2015 11:48 killa_robot wrote:
People are only "allowed" to say what they want if it's PC. Otherwise you're subject to mob mentality, and subsequently the loss of your job/schooling, reputation, and maybe even imprisonment.
I'm curious how far the "that offends me so get rid of it" mentality will actually go though before people realize it's just pandering to the people crying the loudest, and not actually helping anything. Are you offended by other people being offended? Aren't you just asking for the thing that offends you to be removed because it offends you?
Thinking that someone being offended by something that is not worth being offended over isn't good, isn't being offended. I'd have to actually take personal insult to it in order for it to be considered offensive to me.
People getting offended by things not worth getting offended over just creates a hostile and toxic environment where nobody is happy.
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He's entirely correct about the underlying hypocrisy of the movement. The intellectual bankruptcy is simply astounding.
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On November 20 2015 12:08 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On November 20 2015 12:06 Kickstart wrote:On November 20 2015 12:03 Plansix wrote:On November 20 2015 11:57 Kickstart wrote:On November 20 2015 11:52 Plansix wrote:On November 20 2015 11:49 Kickstart wrote:On November 20 2015 11:47 Plansix wrote:On November 20 2015 11:42 Kickstart wrote:On November 20 2015 11:38 Plansix wrote:On November 20 2015 11:31 Kickstart wrote:
[quote]
I can see this is going nowhere. It is the same line you give for any such issue. I am aware that I don't get to decide what others find offensive. My question, for the nth time, is what do you think should be done. I already granted you that some costumes are offensive, we don't disagree there. I just don't understand how this 'discussion' you claim to be having is more than a whine when all you are saying is "this and that are offensive". What isn't being done now that should be happening in your mind. I would posit that there is nothing that should be done that doesn't already happen, so there is little point in getting all bent out of shape over it.
I disagree, people should talk and have an understanding on what is and isn't offensive. You can't stop people from offending others, but the dialog that results can be less defensive and not laced with denial of the offense. But again we get into sticky territory here. Some people won't agree on what is offensive. I've seen some people say that men who dress as woman for Halloween is offensive, and I think that anyone who finds that offensive is a moron. If I dressed as a woman for whatever reason ( I wouldn't), and someone told me it offended them, I would think they are a moron no matter the reason for their offense, and I would not think I should change my costume. If someone dresses as a black character and paints their face black, I don't see that as being offensive. If someone dressed up in what we call 'blackface', then yes, that is offensive. And the response to that is "don't be an asshole". If someone is offended by what you do, you have two options: 1: Let them know you feel they shouldn't' be offended. 2: Say that you are sorry you offended them and that you wouldn't have done it if you knew it would have. I know which why I respond, but that is me. Again it seems we don't disagree that much. My response would be a mixture of both. "I am sorry that you are offended as that was not my intent, but I think you may be a bit too sensitive" or something to that effect. But you're not really sorry. You don't value their feels or perspective, because if you did you would leave that last part off. I actually consider myself a rather empathetic person. I just think that if you are easily offended by costumes you shouldn't put yourself in a situation where you are likely to encounter such a costume. To me it is akin to being offended by homosexuality and then going to a gay pride parade and yelling at people with a loudspeaker. Or if you are offended by antisemitic speech you shouldn't read publications by WAR or something (is that even still a thing). But you are right in that I am not sorry that I wore the costume, I am still sorry that their feelings are hurt, but I think the in my mind the issue isn't my costume it is that in such an instance they would be too sensitive. (take the example of if I dressed as a woman and someone came up to me and said they found it offensive. I would apologize that they were offended but I still wouldn't think anything was wrong with my costume). The problem is that you want a get out of jail free card for this. You want to be able wear/say anything you want, but also be seen as respectful and empathetic. And that is impossible, you can't have both. The offended party won't treat you with respect because you clearly don't respect them and their perspective. Perhaps. But then everyone is like that. If someone is offended by something that I find perfectly reasonable then you are quite right, I probably am not going to think much of their opinion on the matter. But you do the same thing. What is your response to people who are offended by same sex couples? Oh that's right, you tell them to get over it. If people are offended by same sex couples, I'm not going to tell them they shouldn't be unless they ask. But being gay isn't a costume either, so its a different subject. People can't choose not to be gay. People can pick out not racist costumes.
I could have just as easily said 'girls who wear skimpy clothes" or something. Point is you wouldn't respect their opinion, which is what you accused me of in the constructed scenario.
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On November 20 2015 12:10 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On November 20 2015 12:02 Kickstart wrote:On November 20 2015 11:57 GreenHorizons wrote:On November 20 2015 11:48 Kickstart wrote:On November 20 2015 11:41 GreenHorizons wrote:Yeah I could imagine going as a US pilot covered in dead babies (dolls) would get the same people arguing "people are just whining that it hurts their feelings and it doesn't matter, they should just get over it" Surely you wouldn't see outrage on every right leaning site around talking about how the disrespect is unacceptable... It really astonishes me how oblivious some folks can be. Anyway on today's "Why bigots are making everything worse" NEW YORK -- The US is racked with fear and paranoia. Following last week's attacks in Paris, a raft of ugly sentiment has surfaced from across the political right demonising not only Syrian refugees but anyone who professes to follow the Islamic faith.
The fear was stoked on Tuesday when Republican governors from Alabama, Arkansas, Arizona, Florida, Georgia, Kansas, Illinois, Iowa, Indiana, Maine, Michigan, Mississippi, Nebraska, New Mexico, South Carolina, Tennessee and Texas signed a pledge promising to ban refugees from being resettled in their states. Constitutional experts suggest such a ban would be illegal, but the move is symbolic of the type of rightwing rhetoric infecting the country following the massacre in France.
Also on Tuesday, Republican presidential candidate Jeb Bush suggested there should be a religious test for entry into the United States -- if you're Christian you're in, if you're Muslim you're out. How this test would be administred, the younger Bush failed to answer.
This type of overt bigotry was quickly reflected in the populace when on Wednesday a man interrupted a presentation for the building of a new mosque in Virginia, lambasting the speaker with racist abuse. “All Muslims are terrorists,” he shouted at Samer Shalaby, who was presenting the plans.
“I’ll do everything in my power to make sure that does not happen," he continued. "We don’t want it because you are terrorists. Every one of you are terrorists. I don’t care what you say. You can smile at me. You can say whatever you want, but every Muslim is a terrorist.” (audience applauds) Source Indeed some people are oblivious. You don't think people dressed as suicide bombers after 9/11? They did. People even host parties for 'most offensive costumes'. I bet that blows your mind. People can wear things that they know are offensive and have a laugh about it. This "I bet if the thing in question offended right wing sensibilities" is amusing and pretty vapid. Yeah they still are. Doesn't blow my mind in the slightest. Point is when it does offend right wing sensibilities almost all of the people calling out these folks as "whiners" change their tune or stay silent. You'll have week after week of the "war on Christmas" this year but how many religious freedom folk are going to stand up for the Muslims of that community? You can't find any group expressing concerns about the way they are being mistreated without white (usually men) coming in and pointing out how hard it is for them to deal with acknowledging that mistreatment if not outright dismissing it. One day in the not too distant future it will be a lot more clear when the counter arguments aren't just whining about losing the dominance over culture but actually having to deal with structural remnants of oppression turned on them as they become a minority. Guess I am a strange individual then. I find the 'war on christmas' thing about as ridiculous as the 'don't wear certain costumes' thing. I would also posit that my line of thought isn't that there isn't racism or offensive costumes etc, but that there is a tendency for the affected parties to whine instead of offer up anything of substance. Letting people know that there is something wrong or that something offends you is fine to an extent, but at some point you have to move on to something constructive, instead of stating that over and over again. The simple part is that it's almost universally offensive to black folks (rationally or not) it's reasonable to sacrifice your ability to dress as black entertainment figures (there's a shit ton of white ones to choose from) and be happy you don't have to deal with all the crap that comes with not being able to choose when you're black. The most basic part of why it is offensive is that being black isn't something people get to do for fun, while not addressing the systemic and institutional racism that is the American system.
But if it is irrational, which you said in some cases it may be, why should people give up doing something that others are irrationally offended by? That line of thinking is stretching it. The problem in such a case is with the people who are irrationally offended, not with the people doing something perfectly reasonable that just so happens to upset some people who aren't thinking clearly.
Speaking in hypotheticals doesn't give much clarity but if we can agree that there could be a case where the problem is the people who are irrationally offended than that illustrates the point that the answer isn't to just stop doing whatever it is that someone is offended by.
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Professor from another school comments on protests that he has not seen first hand and is not involved with. Also a out spoke supporter if Israel in every way(left out of the article for reasons) and is often protested when he speaks. I'll take this one with a big grain of salt.
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It is possible that the reason someone is offended by something is stupid or nonsensical. Its possible for someone to read into something that isn't there and take offense. It's possible for someone to take something completely out of context and take offense to it. It is possible for someone to overreact to something.
People make judgements all the time on whether they give a shit that someone finds something offensive or not. Even the most PC person in the world offends someone else. Its impossible to make 100% of the people happy 100% of the time. So you decide even if a person finds something offensive the offense is so small and silly in your opinion you can't be bothered to care. Just the same as you'll find some things that someone else does offensive, but you'll let it slide because its not worth it. Its offensive, but its not offensive enough to lose it over.
Now days people will take offense at anything and everything. Opinion X is offensive but any discussion to the contrary is also offensive. Doing Y is offensive but doing the opposite of Y is just as offensive. The world needs more empathy in a lot of regards, but I think people think too emotionally in a lot of regards as well. Some people let their emotional mind address things that are meant for the rational mind and everyone just ends up pointing fingers and slinging shit. It seems you just can't win in some regards. People will take things personally that are silly, every offense big or small can lead to harassment, witch hunting, doxing, calling for jobs. Little things get so out of hand so fast.
Hyperbole is the norm on every side. Digging your heels in and doubling down is the norm on every side. There is no grey and grey is such a beautiful color. People go to DEFCON 1 instantly and can't see the forest through the trees. It's gotten sad, we've lost a lot of our common humanity. It's us vs. them. I don't just have a different viewpoint from that guy, he's wrong and he's the devil! Never admit you're wrong, never admit you're sorry, never admit you don't know. Everyone has flaws, big flaws. Everyone is fighting a great battle you no nothing about. Everyone is offensive. But there is strength is looking past those flaws and offenses sometimes and seeing that people are people.
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On November 20 2015 12:16 Plansix wrote:Professor from another school comments on protests that he has not seen first hand and is not involved with. Also a out spoke supporter if Israel in every way(left out of the article for reasons) and is often protested when he speaks. I'll take this one with a big grain of salt.
This entire forum is people commenting on things they aren't involved with and don't see first hand.
Which, admittedly, puts everyone into a position where they're talking shit about shit they know nothing about. But I think everyone here, yourself included, would believe that they have an opinion that's worth considering.
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On November 20 2015 12:16 Kickstart wrote:Show nested quote +On November 20 2015 12:10 GreenHorizons wrote:On November 20 2015 12:02 Kickstart wrote:On November 20 2015 11:57 GreenHorizons wrote:On November 20 2015 11:48 Kickstart wrote:On November 20 2015 11:41 GreenHorizons wrote:Yeah I could imagine going as a US pilot covered in dead babies (dolls) would get the same people arguing "people are just whining that it hurts their feelings and it doesn't matter, they should just get over it" Surely you wouldn't see outrage on every right leaning site around talking about how the disrespect is unacceptable... It really astonishes me how oblivious some folks can be. Anyway on today's "Why bigots are making everything worse" NEW YORK -- The US is racked with fear and paranoia. Following last week's attacks in Paris, a raft of ugly sentiment has surfaced from across the political right demonising not only Syrian refugees but anyone who professes to follow the Islamic faith.
The fear was stoked on Tuesday when Republican governors from Alabama, Arkansas, Arizona, Florida, Georgia, Kansas, Illinois, Iowa, Indiana, Maine, Michigan, Mississippi, Nebraska, New Mexico, South Carolina, Tennessee and Texas signed a pledge promising to ban refugees from being resettled in their states. Constitutional experts suggest such a ban would be illegal, but the move is symbolic of the type of rightwing rhetoric infecting the country following the massacre in France.
Also on Tuesday, Republican presidential candidate Jeb Bush suggested there should be a religious test for entry into the United States -- if you're Christian you're in, if you're Muslim you're out. How this test would be administred, the younger Bush failed to answer.
This type of overt bigotry was quickly reflected in the populace when on Wednesday a man interrupted a presentation for the building of a new mosque in Virginia, lambasting the speaker with racist abuse. “All Muslims are terrorists,” he shouted at Samer Shalaby, who was presenting the plans.
“I’ll do everything in my power to make sure that does not happen," he continued. "We don’t want it because you are terrorists. Every one of you are terrorists. I don’t care what you say. You can smile at me. You can say whatever you want, but every Muslim is a terrorist.” (audience applauds) Source Indeed some people are oblivious. You don't think people dressed as suicide bombers after 9/11? They did. People even host parties for 'most offensive costumes'. I bet that blows your mind. People can wear things that they know are offensive and have a laugh about it. This "I bet if the thing in question offended right wing sensibilities" is amusing and pretty vapid. Yeah they still are. Doesn't blow my mind in the slightest. Point is when it does offend right wing sensibilities almost all of the people calling out these folks as "whiners" change their tune or stay silent. You'll have week after week of the "war on Christmas" this year but how many religious freedom folk are going to stand up for the Muslims of that community? You can't find any group expressing concerns about the way they are being mistreated without white (usually men) coming in and pointing out how hard it is for them to deal with acknowledging that mistreatment if not outright dismissing it. One day in the not too distant future it will be a lot more clear when the counter arguments aren't just whining about losing the dominance over culture but actually having to deal with structural remnants of oppression turned on them as they become a minority. Guess I am a strange individual then. I find the 'war on christmas' thing about as ridiculous as the 'don't wear certain costumes' thing. I would also posit that my line of thought isn't that there isn't racism or offensive costumes etc, but that there is a tendency for the affected parties to whine instead of offer up anything of substance. Letting people know that there is something wrong or that something offends you is fine to an extent, but at some point you have to move on to something constructive, instead of stating that over and over again. The simple part is that it's almost universally offensive to black folks (rationally or not) it's reasonable to sacrifice your ability to dress as black entertainment figures (there's a shit ton of white ones to choose from) and be happy you don't have to deal with all the crap that comes with not being able to choose when you're black. The most basic part of why it is offensive is that being black isn't something people get to do for fun, while not addressing the systemic and institutional racism that is the American system. But if it is irrational, which you said in some cases it may be, why should people give up doing something that others are irrationally offended by? That line of thinking is stretching it. The problem in such a case is with the people who are irrationally offended, not with the people doing something perfectly reasonable that just so happens to upset some people who aren't thinking clearly. Speaking in hypotheticals doesn't give much clarity but if we can agree that there could be a case where the problem is the people who are irrationally offended than that illustrates the point that the answer isn't to just stop doing whatever it is that someone is offended by.
I still can't quite grasp how you expect people to tell somebody that they're have a hurtful costume but at the same time saying that they shouldn't let it personally affect them.
Now, do you live this way in all aspects of your life? Does literally nothing which isn't illegal bother you?
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On November 20 2015 12:11 Kickstart wrote:Show nested quote +On November 20 2015 12:08 Plansix wrote:On November 20 2015 12:06 Kickstart wrote:On November 20 2015 12:03 Plansix wrote:On November 20 2015 11:57 Kickstart wrote:On November 20 2015 11:52 Plansix wrote:On November 20 2015 11:49 Kickstart wrote:On November 20 2015 11:47 Plansix wrote:On November 20 2015 11:42 Kickstart wrote:On November 20 2015 11:38 Plansix wrote:
[quote]
I disagree, people should talk and have an understanding on what is and isn't offensive. You can't stop people from offending others, but the dialog that results can be less defensive and not laced with denial of the offense. But again we get into sticky territory here. Some people won't agree on what is offensive. I've seen some people say that men who dress as woman for Halloween is offensive, and I think that anyone who finds that offensive is a moron. If I dressed as a woman for whatever reason ( I wouldn't), and someone told me it offended them, I would think they are a moron no matter the reason for their offense, and I would not think I should change my costume. If someone dresses as a black character and paints their face black, I don't see that as being offensive. If someone dressed up in what we call 'blackface', then yes, that is offensive. And the response to that is "don't be an asshole". If someone is offended by what you do, you have two options: 1: Let them know you feel they shouldn't' be offended. 2: Say that you are sorry you offended them and that you wouldn't have done it if you knew it would have. I know which why I respond, but that is me. Again it seems we don't disagree that much. My response would be a mixture of both. "I am sorry that you are offended as that was not my intent, but I think you may be a bit too sensitive" or something to that effect. But you're not really sorry. You don't value their feels or perspective, because if you did you would leave that last part off. I actually consider myself a rather empathetic person. I just think that if you are easily offended by costumes you shouldn't put yourself in a situation where you are likely to encounter such a costume. To me it is akin to being offended by homosexuality and then going to a gay pride parade and yelling at people with a loudspeaker. Or if you are offended by antisemitic speech you shouldn't read publications by WAR or something (is that even still a thing). But you are right in that I am not sorry that I wore the costume, I am still sorry that their feelings are hurt, but I think the in my mind the issue isn't my costume it is that in such an instance they would be too sensitive. (take the example of if I dressed as a woman and someone came up to me and said they found it offensive. I would apologize that they were offended but I still wouldn't think anything was wrong with my costume). The problem is that you want a get out of jail free card for this. You want to be able wear/say anything you want, but also be seen as respectful and empathetic. And that is impossible, you can't have both. The offended party won't treat you with respect because you clearly don't respect them and their perspective. Perhaps. But then everyone is like that. If someone is offended by something that I find perfectly reasonable then you are quite right, I probably am not going to think much of their opinion on the matter. But you do the same thing. What is your response to people who are offended by same sex couples? Oh that's right, you tell them to get over it. If people are offended by same sex couples, I'm not going to tell them they shouldn't be unless they ask. But being gay isn't a costume either, so its a different subject. People can't choose not to be gay. People can pick out not racist costumes. I could have just as easily said 'girls who wear skimpy clothes" or something. Point is you wouldn't respect their opinion, which is what you accused me of in the constructed scenario.
Lets say for example that someone was offended that I came under dressed to a formal party or engagement. I would still apologize and I would feel bad if I made the mistake, which we will assume it was. But if some rando told me I was under dress for a wedding and it upset them, I might tell them to buzz off. But the key is I would totally accept they would be mad at me.
There is no get out of jail free card on this one. You can not care if someone is offended at a costume. Just don't expect them to be happy about it.
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United States43296 Posts
On November 20 2015 08:56 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +At my firm no one would give a shit... Sorry, i meant in my country... We just don't understand the rage about black face... That is what is commonly known as "white privilege" "Me and my buddies/compatriots don't get what the big deal is, so rather than figure it out, we'll use our ignorance as justification for our racism/bigotry".
Or, if he's Swiss, your racial baggage is just nothing to do with him. Blackface doesn't have the same legacy in countries that aren't the United States. Morris dancers, for example, traditionally use blackface without any racist context.
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EPT
