US Politics Mega-thread - Page 2271

On September 07 2015 08:46 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:


I think there's a happy medium though. He doesn't have to call his brother the worst president ever, per se. He should be able to tactfully find a way to state that he believes his brother made a mistake, and that while he loves his brother and agreed with other political stances GWB had, they're not the same person.

On September 07 2015 02:02 KwarK wrote:

Not really. He could say "Clearly the situation in the Middle East and in North Africa has gotten less stable, not more. The quality of life of the people there has gotten worse and Islamic extremism has never been stronger. It was a mistake to intervene and I think everyone now recognizes that. We should focus on what we can do to learn from that mistake and to fix the situation."

It's not a controversial point that it was a failure.

"We knew this day would come. We've known it for some time. But still there is something profound about the end of a war that has lasted so long," said Obama. "It's harder to end a war than begin one. Everything that American troops have done in Iraq - all the fighting, all the dying, the bleeding and the building and the training and the partnering, all of it has landed to this moment of success."...

"Iraq's not a perfect place. It has many challenges ahead. But we're leaving behind a sovereign, stable and self reliant Iraq with a representative government that was elected by its people. We're building a new partnership between our nations and we are ending a war not with a final battle but with a final march toward home. This is an extraordinary achievement," he said...

"Our efforts in Iraq have taken many twists and turns. It was a source of great controversy at home with patriots on both sides of the debate. But there was one constant: your patriotism. Your commitment to fulfil your mission. Your abiding commitment to one another. That was constant. That did not change. That did not waver," he said to loud cheers.

On September 07 2015 10:25 zlefin wrote:
I rather doubt there is a good answer, in the absolute sense. So the question is simply what is the best of several bad choices.
I suppose I should come up with a more specific plan for my campaign platform.

I don't think anyone is going to be calling Iraq a failure or a mistake.

The War on Terror: Bill O'Reilly Says the Invading Iraq Was a 'Mistake'

Immigrants to the United States should “speak American,” former Republican vice presidential nominee Sarah Palin said on Sunday, adding her voice to a controversy triggered by Donald Trump’s criticism of Republican rival jeb Bush for speaking Spanish.

“It’s a benefit of Jeb Bush to be able to be so fluent in Spanish, because we have a large and wonderful Hispanic population that is helping to build America,” Palin said on CNN’s State of the Union.

“On the other hand, you know, I think we can send a message and say: ‘You want to be in America? A, you better be here legally, or you’re out of here. B, when you’re here, let’s speak American.’ I mean, that’s just, that’s – let’s speak English,” added Palin, who was John McCain’s running mate in the 2008 presidential race.

Palin, who is popular among some US conservatives, said that “a unifying aspect of a nation is the language that is understood by all”. Most of the illegal immigrants in the United States come from Mexico and other Spanish-speaking Latin American countries.

Bush on Thursday rejected the notion offered by Trump that people should speak only English in the United States. Bush, who is fluent in Spanish and frequently breaks into the language at his events, vowed to keep speaking Spanish whenever he felt like it.

Trump, the Republican front-runner whose hardline stance on illegal immigration is a hallmark of his bid for the party’s nomination in the November 2016 election, said: “We’re a nation that speaks English.”

Bush said Trump’s jibe at him that he “spoke Mexican” while on a visit to the U.S. border was deeply divisive.

Current GOP frontrunner Donald Trump maintains a strong lead in New Hampshire, while establishment pick Jeb Bush has steadily lost support in the early-voting Granite State, says the new NBC News/Marist poll.

Trump is 16 percentage points ahead of his closest competitor, Ohio Gov. John Kasich, and has 28 percent of likely Republican voters backing him.

Dr. Ben Carson came in third place with 11 percent of the vote, while Bush dropped to fourth place at eight percent.

Bush has lost almost half his supporters in New Hampshire since July, when he was in second place behind Trump with 14 percent to Trump’s 21 percent. Since February’s, he’s lost almost two-thirds of his support, when he was at 18 percent.

Bush’s support in Iowa also dropped by half, according to NBC/Marist poll. In July, he placed third with 12 percent. Now, only six percent of likely Republican voters in the Hawkeye state chose him as their first pick.

In New Hampshire, Wisconsin Gov. Scott Walker suffered the greatest decline. He’s lost almost three-quarters of his support, and has crashed from 15 percent in February to four percent in early September. Florida Sen. Marco Rubio (R-FL), another establishment favorite, clocks in at only three percent after trying to sell unpopular, recycled Gang of Eight cheap-labor talking points. Rick Santorum, Rick Perry and George Pataki each have less than one percent support. Louisiana Gov. Bobby Jindal tops them at one percent on likely GOP caucus voters.

For the moment, Bush is afloat in the poll’s broader survey of all registered voters. He still defeats Hillary Clinton in a hypothetical match-up, 48 to 43, and Joe Biden by one percent.

The new numbers come as Trump has repeatedly attacked Bush as “low energy,” with an angry Bush declaring he will campaign 16 hours a day and denouncing him in Spanish.

The need to speak Spanish in a country founded and built by English settlers — plus some Dutch — is “the reality of America,” Bush said. “We should celebrate diversity,” he insists, even though scientific studies shows forced cultural variety reduces civic cooperation and even health.

Bush’s favorability ratings continue to slip: In July, 56 percent of New Hampshire Republicans had a favorable view of him, but only 49 percent do now. Thirty-eight percent have an unfavorable view of him, an increase from 32 percent in July. Fifty-one percent of all registered voters and residents in the Granite State have an unfavorable view of him.

In contrast, 56 percent of Republicans look at Trump favorably, up from 39 percent in July. Trump appears to have won over a significant bloc of GOP voters: His unfavorable ratings declined from 53 to 39 percent in two months. Unfavorable ratings from registered voters and residents have likewise declined slightly, with 67 and 65 in July to 59 and 58, respectively.

Trump’s favorability ratings notably increased while voters became more opposed to Bush from July to September.

Trump’s strong immigration stand taken on behalf of Americans, as opposed to foreigners, is appealing to Republicans. Fifty-six percent of voters say they are less likely to support a candidate who offers citizenship to illegal migrants, down from 63 percent in July, but still a firm majority. Forty-three percent say they would be more likely to back a candidate who supports a Constitutional amendment to strip birthright citizenship from anchor babies, one of which is born every 93 seconds.

Bush said Trump’s jibe at him that he “spoke Mexican” while on a visit to the U.S. border was deeply divisive.

On September 07 2015 10:09 coverpunch wrote:

I don't think anyone is going to be calling Iraq a failure or a mistake.

On September 07 2015 11:54 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:


I don't understand this. Even Republicans admit that it was a huge failure. Quite frankly, I don't think anyone is NOT going to be calling Iraq a failure or a mistake, if they want to be president. People can dance around with comments like "Well at the time it was a good call", but 100% of people understand that in retrospect- with 20/20 hindsight- it can be objectively said that it ended up being a bad move overall. The Iraq War fiasco was more than just the initial call- it was the years afterwards, even with correct intelligence, where we overstayed our welcome and fucked up everything anyway.

On September 07 2015 14:18 kwizach wrote:

You're joking, right? Or did you mean that you don't think Republican candidates will be calling the Iraq war a failure or a mistake? Because everyone else who has a grasp on reality knows it was both. It was a failure due to how they handled the country after the initial attack, and it was a mistake because the reasons for entering the country proved to be wrong, plus it had catastrophic effects on the soft power of the U.S., on general respect for international law (it only emboldened others to break it), on the stability of the region and on the Afghan war going on at the same time due to the focus that was put on Iraq.

On September 07 2015 11:31 Plansix wrote:
Iraq is a failure in the fact that it didn't do anything to make us safer. We trained a dictator for a power vacuume. It didn't do anything to improve the world or help us in the Middle East. At the end of the day we spent a lot of money for not a lot and may have to spend more to stableize the region. It was also a mistake because we were proven to be wrong and there were no weapons of mass distraction.

On September 07 2015 18:57 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:


What the heck are you talking about? It takes five seconds to Google this election and the things said about the Iraq War, and the candidates are (appropriately) avoiding the topic like the plague:

"This week, potential Republican presidential candidate Jeb Bush has come under fire for stating he would have invaded Iraq but then changing his position, saying: “Knowing what we know now, I would have not engaged, I would have not gone into Iraq.”
Even more surprising is the fact that Bush isn’t the first Republican candidate to offer that type of response.
Dr. Ben Carson told CNBC that the Iraq war was ‘unnecessary.’
Former HP CEO Carly Fiorina said, ‘The intelligence was wrong’ and that ‘she would not have gone in.’
Florida Senator Marco Rubio agreed with his opponents and went even further claiming President Bush would not have gone in either, if he knew what we know.
Texas Senator Ted Cruz stated that ‘Iraq was a mistake’ because ‘intelligence reports were false.’
Kentucky Senator Rand Paul thinks that invading ‘Iraq was a mistake’…’even as a hypothetical.’"
~ http://www.ijreview.com/2015/05/322015-iraq-war-veterans-respond-every-republican-candidates-statement-iraq-war/

Literally all there's been is backpedaling, because no one wants to be connected with that fiasco. How could you think that the candidates would want to be related to Bush and the Iraq War? Distancing themselves from the Iraq War has been a pretty big priority for everyone- not just Democrats lol.

Why do you think that some candidates would embrace that failure? They can still be big on war and freedom and beating up the Middle East but still admit that the Iraq War was a screw up- there's no reason why they'd need to take on that baggage too.

Even the conservative pundits on Fox News (e.g., Bill O'Reilly) have come out to talk about how much of a failure it was. If even Fox News is admitting it, then there's nothing left to argue lol.