US Politics Mega-thread - Page 2263
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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please. In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up! NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious. Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action. | ||
Toadesstern
Germany16350 Posts
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{CC}StealthBlue
United States41117 Posts
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On September 04 2015 02:31 Slaughter wrote: Fox is going to eat this shit up. War on Christianity x100000000000000 Just think of the coverage if it was a Muslim woman objecting based on her religion. Just let your mind wrap around that. | ||
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KwarK
United States41989 Posts
On September 04 2015 02:44 Plansix wrote: Just think of the coverage if it was a Muslim woman objecting based on her religion. Just let your mind wrap around that. If they don't like America they can just go home! | ||
Cowboy64
115 Posts
In 2004, [San-Francisco Mayor Gavin] Newsom gained national attention when he directed the San Francisco city–county clerk to issue marriage licenses to same-sex couples, in violation of the then-current state law. In August 2004, the Supreme Court of California annulled the marriages that Newsom had authorized, as they conflicted with state law at that time. Still, Newsom's unexpected move brought national attention to the issues of gay marriage, solidifying political support for Newsom in San Francisco and in the gay community. I wonder if there was this great concern for following the law when it was a liberal mayor in San Francisco. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gavin_Newsom#Early_political_career | ||
{CC}StealthBlue
United States41117 Posts
Arizona stands to generate more than $60 million in marijuana tax revenue annually, if voters decide to legalize and regulate the plant for adult recreational purposes in 2016. That's according to an independent analysis released Monday by Arizona's nonprofit Grand Canyon Institute. It found the state would rake in about $64 million per year from legal marijuana taxes, including $51 million that would go to K-12 education and all-day kindergarten programs in the state. That's significantly more than the $40 million in tax revenue for education backers of the ballot initiative projected last month -- a sum that opponents of the measure lambasted as unrealistically high and a local newspaper characterized as "a lie" in an August op-ed. But at least according to the GCI, a research organization focusing on Arizona's fiscal and tax issues -- one that describes itself as "a centrist think-thank led by a bipartisan group of former state lawmakers, economists, community leaders, and academicians" -- the advocates were being conservative in their estimates. "The revenue gains do exceed the $40 million espoused by proponents of the initiative," GCI's report reads. Further, the research group projects that if the ballot measure were to pass, by 2019, once the regulated market was fully established, the state would raise $72 million annually with about $58 million for education alone. “You can debate whether marijuana should be made legal for adults, but there’s no arguing the fact that this initiative will generate significant revenue for Arizona schools," J.P. Holyoak, chairman of the Campaign to Regulate Marijuana Like Alcohol, said in a statement reacting to GCI's report. "It might not be enough to solve all of our schools’ budget problems, but it will help immensely." In its report, the GCI says it neither supports nor opposes the effort to legalize marijuana in the state. Source | ||
Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On September 04 2015 02:47 Cowboy64 wrote: I wonder if there was this great concern for following the law when it was a liberal mayor in San Francisco. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gavin_Newsom#Early_political_career Well he didn't defy the courts order once the marriages were annulled. He also didn't directly defy Prop 8 when it was passed and let the legal process take it's course. So a lot less to get worked up about. | ||
Yoav
United States1874 Posts
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Cowboy64
115 Posts
On September 04 2015 02:58 Plansix wrote: Well he didn't defy the courts order once the marriages were annulled. He also didn't directly defy Prop 8 when it was passed and let the legal process take it's course. So a lot less to get worked up about. Would you have advocated for jailing him if he had continued to issue the licences? I'm just trying to get a feel for if it's okay to jail this woman because she's a bigoted old coot, or because she broke the law. Forgive me if I have my doubts as to which it really is. | ||
SolaR-
United States2685 Posts
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On September 04 2015 03:03 Cowboy64 wrote: Would you have advocated for jailing him if he had continued to issue the licences? I'm just trying to get a feel for if it's okay to jail this woman because she's a bigoted old coot, or because she broke the law. Forgive me if I have my doubts as to which it really is. Because it wasn't an offence that warranted jail time? His order violated the state law and the court overturned it. He and his office then complied with the court order. She violated the federal ruling on same sex marriage, the court told her she was wrong. Then she disregarded the court order. This isn't rocket surgery. | ||
Cowboy64
115 Posts
On September 04 2015 03:06 Plansix wrote: Because it wasn't an offence that warranted jail time? His order violated the state law and the court overturned it. He and his office then complied with the court order. She violated the federal ruling on same sex marriage, the court told her she was wrong. Then she disregarded the court order. This isn't rocket surgery. So if Gavin Newsome had continued to issue licences, in violation of state law, would you have supported jailing him for it? I understand that she has continued to break the law, whereas he only broke the law once; my question is: if he had continued to break the law, would you support putting him in jail? | ||
Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On September 04 2015 03:10 Cowboy64 wrote: So if Gavin Newsome had continued to issue licences, in violation of state law, would you have supported jailing him for it? I understand that she has continued to break the law, whereas he only broke the law once; my question is: if he had continued to break the law, would you support putting him in jail? I mean, sure, if he when down the crazy road and started to demand people violate the Supreme court's order or be fired. Or started issuing licenses himself in his spare time because no one else would do it. But that would be a pretty good reason for him not to be Mayor by most standards. | ||
cLutZ
United States19573 Posts
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
This case is a clear example of someone pushing against a solved ruled upon issue, like a Governor standing in-front of a public school with a fire ax. | ||
Sermokala
United States13747 Posts
The whole problem was she was the only one to issue licenses doesn't this mean then no one can get licence as she refuses to give them to gay marriage? She must therefore be against straight marriage as well. I wish people would think things through before they make their stands on issues. | ||
zlefin
United States7689 Posts
On September 04 2015 03:10 Cowboy64 wrote: So if Gavin Newsome had continued to issue licences, in violation of state law, would you have supported jailing him for it? I understand that she has continued to break the law, whereas he only broke the law once; my question is: if he had continued to break the law, would you support putting him in jail? The charge under which the woman is being put in jail is contempt of court. In the situation you described, Newsome wouldn't be put in jail for violating that state law (which likely has no penal provisions in it at any rate), but might for contempt of court by ignoring the court order. | ||
Danglars
United States12133 Posts
On September 04 2015 03:19 Plansix wrote: I find the entire analogy to be sort of silly since the main goal of violating the law was to start the discussion about gay marriage and work through the process in the court and political system. His intent was clear and the people who lived in the city supported it. This case is a clear example of someone pushing against a solved ruled upon issue, like a Governor standing in-front of a public school with a fire ax. Mayor violates law, but you agree that the law is bad, therefore it's "start[ing] a discussion" and a clear goal of a court process (???). It sounds like you're advocating judicial immunity for unpopular laws and the supremacy of courts over legislative process. I'm constantly reminded how much of this reduces to faith in justices to govern and outright rejection of government by the people. How easy you find it to whitewash activists that agitate for your preferred direction of social change. | ||
Jormundr
United States1678 Posts
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zlefin
United States7689 Posts
As an empirical observation, the approval ratings of the unelected justices of the Supreme court is consistently higher than that of Congress. The analyses I've seen that compare the performance of elected judges vs appointed judges found appointed judges to be better on average (less corrupt, better performance views by the community, less misconduct). I suspect people have a knee-jerk pro-democracy reaction, that things should be done by vote, regardless of whether those specific things tend to actually turn out more to their satisfaction through voting. All forms of governments have strengths and weaknesses, and most people probably aren't properly aware of the weaknesses in democracy (as typically practiced), so that may be why they default to saying do it through elected people, even though that may be demonstrably inferior. | ||
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