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US Politics Mega-thread - Page 2265

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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please.

In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up!

NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious.
Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action.
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
September 03 2015 21:35 GMT
#45281
On September 04 2015 06:31 KwarK wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 04 2015 06:12 ticklishmusic wrote:
On September 04 2015 06:09 Gorsameth wrote:
On September 04 2015 05:55 Toadesstern wrote:
Clerk Rejects Proposal to Let Deputies Issue Marriage Licenses
ASHLAND, Ky. — A defiant county clerk rejected a proposal that would have allowed her deputies to grant same-sex marriage licenses, hours after she was sent to jail by a federal judge for disobeying a court order.
Through her lawyer, the clerk, Kim Davis of Rowan County, said she would not agree to allow the licenses to be issued under her authority as county clerk. Had she consented, the judge would have considered releasing her from custody.

Five of the six deputies have told Judge David L. Bunning of Federal District Court that that they will issue the licenses, though some of them said they would do so reluctantly. The lone holdout was Ms. Davis’s son, Nathan.
[...]
Lawyers for the same-sex couples seeking licenses had asked Judge Bunning to fine Ms. Davis and not send her to jail, but the judge said he thought that a fine would not be enough to prompt the clerk’s compliance.

source

this stuff is getting funny

So what is the next step after getting jailed for Contempt?


Crowdfund
Speaking tour
Book deal
Fade into obscurity, except for occasional tweets and public appearances

One Nation Under God: My struggle to defend the sanctity of marriage available in a book store near you

Opening page features her discussing how her 3 previous marriages lead to her having a deep understanding of how important the sanctity of marriage is.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
Gorsameth
Profile Joined April 2010
Netherlands21655 Posts
September 03 2015 21:39 GMT
#45282
It was actually a serious question.
She is jailed. Still refuses to co-operate. What next? Can the Judge remove her from office?
It ignores such insignificant forces as time, entropy, and death
zlefin
Profile Blog Joined October 2012
United States7689 Posts
September 03 2015 21:41 GMT
#45283
Introvert:
One of the problems IIRC was that it didn't get people out of government, it just kept meant they changed positions more. So they'd alternate between state rep and some mid level bureaucratic appointment; or they'd alternate between different elected positions.
Even if you get them out of the government entirely, which would take a much stricter rule, they can still end up part of the apparatus, by going to do party work/campaigning, or just being a lobbyist.
And of course, if they actually leave that stuff entirely, you may just end up with the problem where people alternate between an industry, and the people who regulate that industry, as often happens in regulatory positions.

I'm not sure the intellectual argument for term limits is strong, more like medium.
Great read: http://shorensteincenter.org/news-coverage-2016-general-election/ great book on democracy: http://press.princeton.edu/titles/10671.html zlefin is grumpier due to long term illness. Ignoring some users.
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-09-03 21:42:03
September 03 2015 21:41 GMT
#45284
As Barack Obama wraps up a three-day visit to Alaska centered on the urgency of tackling climate change, Republican presidential candidate Marco Rubio on Wednesday previewed what energy policy would look like under his administration.

Rubio vowed to reverse key components of the climate agenda Obama has been touting in Alaska, while also making the case for turning back some of the nation’s energy authority to the states and away from the federal government. While outlining his proposals during a swing through Oklahoma – currently the fourth largest producer of natural gas in the United States – the Florida senator decried in particular the Environmental Protection Agency’s new rules to reduce greenhouse emissions under its Clean Power Plan.

The rules would have “a devastating impact on affordable energy in exchange for little to no environmental benefit”, Rubio said, while pledging to immediately stop them in their tracks.

“It would truly be one of the most expensive and costly regulations ever created. Yet Hillary Clinton has pledged to make defending and expanding it a ‘top priority’,” Rubio said in remarks before the Oklahoma Independent Petroleum Association in Oklahoma City. “As president, I will immediately stop this massive regulation. I’ll pursue a sweeping overhaul of the regulatory system to make sure costs and benefits of new rules are accurately accounted for and that localities, states, and industries can meet the timelines I set forward.”

Another key component of Rubio’s plan would be to lift the nation’s ban on crude oil exports, which has been in place for four decades. Rubio said lifting the ban would both boost job creation and bolster national security interests by “reducing the leverage of oil-rich anti-American governments”.

“This ban is a perfect example of just how outdated Washington has become,” Rubio said. “Lifting the crude-oil export ban will be an immediate boon to our economy.”

As domestic oil production has dramatically risen in the United States, the oil industry has been urging the White House to reverse the ban on crude oil exports.


Source
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
September 03 2015 21:43 GMT
#45285
On September 04 2015 06:39 Gorsameth wrote:
It was actually a serious question.
She is jailed. Still refuses to co-operate. What next? Can the Judge remove her from office?

There is a process to remove her, which will either start now if there is the political will to do so. Or the Plaintiffs will request the judge order that process to start if it doesn't happen naturally.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
September 03 2015 21:53 GMT
#45286
Officials from eight cities in the Bay Area are set to announce a plan to raise the minimum wage across the region, the San Jose Mercury News reported Thursday. The move is the latest in the growing fight across the United States to increase the minimum wage.

Mayors from the California cities of San Jose, Campbell, Palo Alto, Cupertino, Milpitas, Morgan Hill and Monte Serano, as well as a representative from Santa Clara, were expected to make the formal announcement within hours, the Mercury News reported, without directly citing a source for the information.

Los Angeles this year approved raising its minimum wage to $15 an hour by 2020. Fast-food workers in New York are set to get raises to take their pay up to $15 an hour over the next few years.

In the Bay Area — a place that has in recent years been increasingly cited as exemplifying the widening U.S. income gap — San Francisco has approved incremental increases to achieve a $15 an hour minimum wage by July of 2018. The Mercury News reported that City of San Jose in 2012 approved a plan that raised the minimum wage to $10.30 in January of 2015. California’s minimum wage is currently $9 an hour, and will rise to $10 an hour in January 2016. The federal minimum wage is currently $7.25 an hour.

"We have to do more to help those dependent on a minimum wage, but we need to proceed in a thoughtful manner that lifts the tide for all residents," the Mercury News quoted San Jose Mayor Sam Liccardo as saying in a statement released Wednesday.


Source
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
zlefin
Profile Blog Joined October 2012
United States7689 Posts
September 03 2015 21:53 GMT
#45287
On September 04 2015 06:39 Gorsameth wrote:
It was actually a serious question.
She is jailed. Still refuses to co-operate. What next? Can the Judge remove her from office?


Mostly what Plansix said.
And of course she stays in jail for contempt.
Great read: http://shorensteincenter.org/news-coverage-2016-general-election/ great book on democracy: http://press.princeton.edu/titles/10671.html zlefin is grumpier due to long term illness. Ignoring some users.
whatisthisasheep
Profile Joined April 2015
624 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-09-03 22:32:09
September 03 2015 22:31 GMT
#45288
Trump signed a Pledge with the RNC assuring them he wouldnt run as a independent
Please help me get in contact with the Pats organization because I'd love to personally deflate Tom's balls.
Saryph
Profile Joined April 2010
United States1955 Posts
September 03 2015 22:36 GMT
#45289
On September 04 2015 07:31 whatisthisasheep wrote:
Trump signed a Pledge with the RNC assuring them he wouldnt run as a independent
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dU4J0dBatS0

Doesn't agree to sign pledge at debate: makes headlines, cheered on by his supporters.

Agrees to sign pledge: makes headlines again, still cheered on by same supporters.

If you believe in the strategy of whoever is talked about the most in the news is the one who wins, makes perfect sense. (Especially when you look at sore-loser rules in most states that would have prevented him from running as an independent.)
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
September 03 2015 22:46 GMT
#45290
The Justice Department says it will beef up legal requirements for using cell-site simulators, an increasingly controversial form of surveillance technology that secretly gathers data about mobile devices.

Under the new policy, federal investigators will be required to get a warrant from a judge demonstrating probable cause, in most domestic criminal probes. Agents will need to explain to judges how the technology is being used. And they'll be directed to destroy volumes of bystanders' data "no less than once daily."

"This policy is really designed to ... try to promote transparency, consistency and accountability, all while being mindful of the public's privacy interest," said Deputy U.S. Attorney General Sally Yates.

Yates said the devices, commonly known as StingRays or dirt boxes, have been critical in cracking drug cases, finding fugitives and determining the whereabouts of kidnap victims. She declined to provide numbers on how often cell-site simulators are used but said they're deployed in only "a fraction" of federal investigations in keeping with public safety.

The new policy applies to federal agents under Justice Department control and to state or local investigators who work on federal task forces. Yates also said she expects the FBI to modify the terms of its "nondisclosure" agreements with state and local entities, some of which have barred those law enforcement agencies from disclosing the use of the devices, even to criminal defendants.

Yates said the Justice Department is trying to balance privacy interests of citizens with a desire to solve crimes while "not giving a road map to the bad guys who are trying to defeat it." In emergency or "exigent" circumstances, agents may not need to secure a warrant, but approval of high-level attorneys will be required.

The federal action follows outcry from judges, privacy advocates and members of Congress over the intrusive nature of the technology, which mimics cellphone towers to collect identifying information from mobile phones in a particular area. The StingRays can sweep in high volumes of information from innocent people inside homes or parks.


Source
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
cLutZ
Profile Joined November 2010
United States19574 Posts
September 03 2015 22:46 GMT
#45291
On September 04 2015 06:35 Plansix wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 04 2015 06:31 KwarK wrote:
On September 04 2015 06:12 ticklishmusic wrote:
On September 04 2015 06:09 Gorsameth wrote:
On September 04 2015 05:55 Toadesstern wrote:
Clerk Rejects Proposal to Let Deputies Issue Marriage Licenses
ASHLAND, Ky. — A defiant county clerk rejected a proposal that would have allowed her deputies to grant same-sex marriage licenses, hours after she was sent to jail by a federal judge for disobeying a court order.
Through her lawyer, the clerk, Kim Davis of Rowan County, said she would not agree to allow the licenses to be issued under her authority as county clerk. Had she consented, the judge would have considered releasing her from custody.

Five of the six deputies have told Judge David L. Bunning of Federal District Court that that they will issue the licenses, though some of them said they would do so reluctantly. The lone holdout was Ms. Davis’s son, Nathan.
[...]
Lawyers for the same-sex couples seeking licenses had asked Judge Bunning to fine Ms. Davis and not send her to jail, but the judge said he thought that a fine would not be enough to prompt the clerk’s compliance.

source

this stuff is getting funny

So what is the next step after getting jailed for Contempt?


Crowdfund
Speaking tour
Book deal
Fade into obscurity, except for occasional tweets and public appearances

One Nation Under God: My struggle to defend the sanctity of marriage available in a book store near you

Opening page features her discussing how her 3 previous marriages lead to her having a deep understanding of how important the sanctity of marriage is.

I'm pretty sure she converted after the third dissolved, so its actually a plausible interpretation for her to have.

Even if its quite odd.
Freeeeeeedom
DarkPlasmaBall
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States44256 Posts
September 03 2015 22:58 GMT
#45292
On September 04 2015 07:31 whatisthisasheep wrote:
Trump signed a Pledge with the RNC assuring them he wouldnt run as a independent
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dU4J0dBatS0


Trump just pledged to the RNC that he wouldn't consider running as a third-party candidate if he didn't win the Republican nomination.
I think that's an incredibly smart move for him to make, because Republicans might start to back him since he's in the lead, and he's Donald Trump so the promise is literally meaningless and he can still turn around later on, flip off the Republicans, and run as an Independent if he wants.
lol.
"There is nothing more satisfying than looking at a crowd of people and helping them get what I love." ~Day[9] Daily #100
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
September 04 2015 00:15 GMT
#45293
In a new sign that Iran might consider freeing Jason Rezaian, a powerful Iranian politician tells NPR that there are "practical" ways to liberate the Washington Post reporter and other American prisoners. He then sketched the outline of a trade.

"That's one way," Ali Larijani, the speaker of Iran's Parliament, tells NPR's Steve Inskeep.

Rezaian was arrested in Tehran more than a year ago, prompting an outcry for his release. As they negotiated with Iran over its nuclear program this year, U.S. officials called on Iran to free Rezaian, as well as three other Americans.

The possibility of a prisoner swap came up in an interview Thursday in New York, where Larijani is attending a global conference of parliamentary speakers this week. The speaker does not have direct authority over Rezaian, but he's close to those who do: his brother is the head of Iran's judiciary.

Larijani's suggestion appears to be the most direct public consideration of a trade by an Iranian official. An Iranian diplomat recently hinted at the possibility, only to dismiss it.

Here's today's exchange:

Inskeep: Can you see a practical way that Iran's government could release Jason Rezaian and other Americans who've been held in Iran for months or years?

Larijani: There are practical ways of course. For example, there is a number of Iranians in prison here [in the U.S.]. Definitely for matters of this sort, one can come up with solutions. I think your politicians know about those ways.

Inskeep: There was an occasion recently with Cuba where the United States exchanged prisoners with Cuba. Is that what you're suggesting?

Larijani: That's one way. There are other ways that the judiciary systems of the two countries can come up with. It is the judiciary that has to decide about it.

The Iranian speaker's remarks contrast sharply with a recent statement by an Iranian diplomat who stated, "An exchange of Jason Rezaian is not on the agenda."

That comment by Iran's deputy foreign minister Hassan Qashqavi was seen as noteworthy partly because it was "the first time a high-level official has alluded to the possibility of such a trade," as the AP reported.


Source
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
Sermokala
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States13909 Posts
September 04 2015 01:16 GMT
#45294
Trump is strong right now in the crowded field but any poll with him head to head shows him behind a bit.
A wise man will say that he knows nothing. We're gona party like its 2752 Hail Dark Brandon
Falling
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
Canada11349 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-09-04 01:32:43
September 04 2015 01:31 GMT
#45295
On September 04 2015 07:36 Saryph wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 04 2015 07:31 whatisthisasheep wrote:
Trump signed a Pledge with the RNC assuring them he wouldnt run as a independent
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dU4J0dBatS0

Doesn't agree to sign pledge at debate: makes headlines, cheered on by his supporters.

Agrees to sign pledge: makes headlines again, still cheered on by same supporters.

If you believe in the strategy of whoever is talked about the most in the news is the one who wins, makes perfect sense. (Especially when you look at sore-loser rules in most states that would have prevented him from running as an independent.)

It's a great time for him to pledge. If you are that far ahead in the polls, why wouldn't sign a pledge? Especially because it was made such a big deal early on. What came first Trump's hold out, or the media's question to him? I'm pretty sure the independent question came from the media, but I could be wrong. But yeah, after that hoopla early on, there's zero risk to signing a pledge now. When you are ahead, get more ahead.
Moderator"In Trump We Trust," says the Golden Goat of Mars Lago. Have faith and believe! Trump moves in mysterious ways. Like the wind he blows where he pleases...
Mohdoo
Profile Joined August 2007
United States15673 Posts
September 04 2015 04:27 GMT
#45296
The pledge is so stupid, anyway. I mean, what. How fucking stupid. "I hereby pinky promise" rofl. Such a silly thing to emphasize the importance of. No one would actually take it seriously if they wanted to run as third party. And trump of ALL people wouldn't.
ticklishmusic
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
United States15977 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-09-04 04:35:28
September 04 2015 04:35 GMT
#45297
I promise that I will not run as a third party candidate and to support the Republican nominee which is pretty much definitely gonna be me.

You can take a promise like that to the bank.
(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻
Silvanel
Profile Blog Joined March 2003
Poland4726 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-09-04 06:43:14
September 04 2015 06:42 GMT
#45298
On September 04 2015 06:43 Plansix wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 04 2015 06:39 Gorsameth wrote:
It was actually a serious question.
She is jailed. Still refuses to co-operate. What next? Can the Judge remove her from office?

There is a process to remove her, which will either start now if there is the political will to do so. Or the Plaintiffs will request the judge order that process to start if it doesn't happen naturally.


Hypothetical question - just out of curiosity. What would happend if she would get pardoned right now? Can the judge put her back in jail since she is still in contempt or he cant cause You cant be punished twice for the same crime?

Can people being held conetempt by the court even be pardoned?
Pathetic Greta hater.
Cowboy64
Profile Joined April 2015
115 Posts
September 04 2015 08:05 GMT
#45299
On September 04 2015 03:19 Plansix wrote:
I find the entire analogy to be sort of silly since the main goal of violating the law was to start the discussion about gay marriage and work through the process in the court and political system. His intent was clear and the people who lived in the city supported it.

This case is a clear example of someone pushing against a solved ruled upon issue, like a Governor standing in-front of a public school with a fire ax.

I guess my analogy probably was flawed in some key ways, so let me try to dispense with analogies:

Kim Davis is unquestionably breaking the law in the name of activism. She is engaging in civil disobedience. I suppose my question would be this:

Are we okay with jailing everyone who engages in civil disobedience, or are we not? How do we decide which people it's okay to arrest and which people it isn't? I personally think it would be unjust to arrest a black woman in the 1950s for sitting at the front of a bus, even if it was in violation of the law. Obviously the law was unjust, so breaking it was not an act worthy of imprisonment.

But then I have to ask myself if it is only wrong to jail people for civil disobedience when I disagree with the law in question. It's unjust to jail the black man because segregation laws are wrong, but it's just to jail the county-clerk because legalizing homosexual marriage is right? I suppose that argument makes sense, and it's a valid position to take.

I guess I just hope that the government always agrees with me about what's the right and wrong kind of civil disobedience.
cLutZ
Profile Joined November 2010
United States19574 Posts
September 04 2015 08:19 GMT
#45300
There are better analogies, really, that got less attention because they were better hidden by officials (and were not a popular media cause). Such as my home state of IL consistently violating court orders to implement gun rights in accordance with the Constitution (such that the 7th Circuit issued an ultimatum where all gun laws in IL would be invalid if it was not done by a certain date). And even further the City of Chicago which imposed licensing restrictions that required range practice on city limits, and then denied all permits for gun ranges.
Freeeeeeedom
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