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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please.

In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up!

NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious.
Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action.
lastpuritan
Profile Joined December 2014
United States540 Posts
August 09 2015 01:28 GMT
#43581
Jormundr
Profile Joined July 2011
United States1678 Posts
August 09 2015 01:57 GMT
#43582
On August 09 2015 10:11 cLutZ wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 09 2015 09:34 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
So they disrupt the one candidate who marched with MLK, protested segregated housing?


There were a lot of people debating "PC" earlier. The Black Lives Matter movement is a perfect example of why PC has nothing to do with respect or being an asshole. Those people are clearly assholes and/or not showing respect, but calling them on it is not PC, but what they are doing is PC. Moreover, if you point to stats/etc that don't back up their and/or contradict their movement, that is also not PC. That its a one way street is a hallmark of PC-ness.

I'd contrast that with something like "Gamergate" (which I don't know much about substantively), where media basically wholeheartedly accepted the narrative of one side, and probably due to ignorance of the internet, basically smeared the whole movement due to a few Twitter threats and a doxxing. Things that happen to people like Thorin, Liquid112, etc all the time, and they take steps to avoid it (which these victims did not, and possibly intentionally did not).

Lolwut? That stunt they pulled is bullshit, and plenty of people are talking about how fucking stupid this event and the movement in general are. This is the equivalent of holding up your church service to tell everyone about your mix tape. On top of which the "BLM" is about as progressive as Clarence Thomas. It's like a tea party except nobody really takes them seriously and what little power they did have is fading quickly.
Capitalism is beneficial for people who work harder than other people. Under capitalism the only way to make more money is to work harder then your competitors whether they be other companies or workers. ~ Vegetarian
Introvert
Profile Joined April 2011
United States5089 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-08-09 02:40:48
August 09 2015 02:40 GMT
#43583
Did they actually kick Bernie out to let these idiots talk first? The video doesn't say. Kick them out! I'd be upset.
"But, as the conservative understands it, modification of the rules should always reflect, and never impose, a change in the activities and beliefs of those who are subject to them, and should never on any occasion be so great as to destroy the ensemble."
Karis Vas Ryaar
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
United States4396 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-08-09 02:47:44
August 09 2015 02:41 GMT
#43584
On August 09 2015 09:34 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
So they disrupt the one candidate who marched with MLK, protested segregated housing?



well at least they didn't blow up one of their main supporters like the Irish Republican Army did.

There's idiots in every group who think that disruptive publicity is the way to go.

also this isn't exactly brand new but Trunp's campaign says they fired one of their advisors, who claims that he quit over Trump's debate performance. you'd think they'd at least get their story traight.

http://www.cnn.com/2015/08/08/politics/donald-trump-campaign-roger-stone/index.html


Donald Trump's campaign said Saturday it has fired top political adviser Roger Stone -- who promptly denied being let go and insisted he had quit.

Stone's disassociation from the Trump operation highlights the campaign's seeming lack of veteran political advisers, even as the 2016 season is ramping up in earnest. And the dispute opens a window into two different factions of the campaign: one side that wants to maintain Trump's high visibility by capitalizing on his public feuds and bombastic rhetoric, and another that wants to pull the candidate toward more disciplined political strategy.



"Mr. Trump fired Roger Stone last night. We have a tremendously successful campaign and Roger wanted to use the campaign for his own personal publicity. He has had a number of articles about him recently and Mr. Trump wants to keep the focus of the campaign on how to Make America Great Again," a campaign spokesperson said in a statement.

Stone, however, told CNN that he "categorically denies" being fired, and provided what he said was his resignation letter.

"Unfortunately, the current controversies involving personalities and provocative media fights have reached such a high volume that it has distracted attention from your platform and overwhelmed your core message. With this current direction of the candidacy, I no longer can remain involved in your campaign," the letter to Trump says.

Stone added: "I care about you as a friend and wish you well. Be assured I will continue to be vocal and active in the national debate to ensure our nation does not again turn to the failed and distrusted Bush/Clinton families."
"I'm not agreeing with a lot of Virus's decisions but they are working" Tasteless. Ipl4 Losers Bracket Virus 2-1 Maru
Slaughter
Profile Blog Joined November 2003
United States20255 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-08-09 02:46:18
August 09 2015 02:43 GMT
#43585
Those people are idiots and are completely making people against them. I am more surprised that they didn't just have security take them away right away. Do they want their movement to be legitimate?

Jesus they are annoying as shit.
Never Knows Best.
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
August 09 2015 03:01 GMT
#43586
So apparently BLM out of Seattle is apologizing for the incident and saying they have no idea who these people are. As others are saying how is it they are only disrupting the Sanders campaign and not Clinton's or even the GOP...

Also the Colorado river spill keeps getting worse:

FARMINGTON, N.M. (AP) — A yellow sludge spilling from a shuttered gold mine into a southwestern Colorado river has reached northern New Mexico, a state official said Saturday.

The plume arrived in the city of Aztec on Friday night and Farmington on Saturday morning, San Juan County Emergency Management Director Don Cooper said.

Officials in both cities shut down the river's access to water treatment plants and say the communities have a 90-day supply of water and other water sources to draw from.

"There's not a lot we can do. We can keep people away (from the river) and keep testing," Cooper said. "We still don't know how bad it is."

About 1 million gallons of wastewater from Colorado's Gold King Mine began spilling into the Animas River on Wednesday when a cleanup crew supervised by the Environmental Protection Agency accidentally breached a debris dam that had formed inside the mine.

The mine has been inactive since 1923.

No health hazard has been detected, but tests were being analyzed. Federal officials say the spill contains heavy metals including lead and arsenic.

The EPA planned to release additional information Saturday afternoon.

In addition to New Mexico, wastewater from the mine was also inching toward Utah.


Source
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
darthfoley
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States8004 Posts
August 09 2015 03:49 GMT
#43587
On August 09 2015 09:34 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
So they disrupt the one candidate who marched with MLK, protested segregated housing?


While I agree that Bernie has long been on the right side of the civil rights fight, this argument is kinda trivial and I am starting to see why black people get frustrated when they hear that response.

You’re White and Marched With Dr. King: So What?

I think this is well worth a read, and even if you don't particularly agree with the conclusions it draws, I think it gives a much more accurate perspective of some of the BLM people-- and the frustration with the 1960's argument... it isn't the 1960s anymore.

I do think that Bernie needs to seriously talk about racial injustice as an issue separate to economic equality. Sandra Bland was college educated, Christian Taylor (killed yesterday) was a college football player. It's a lot more systematic than just not being paid enough, or not getting to college-- though that's definitely part of it.
watch the wall collide with my fist, mostly over problems that i know i should fix
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-08-09 04:04:47
August 09 2015 04:04 GMT
#43588
On August 09 2015 12:49 darthfoley wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 09 2015 09:34 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
So they disrupt the one candidate who marched with MLK, protested segregated housing?


While I agree that Bernie has long been on the right side of the civil rights fight, this argument is kinda trivial and I am starting to see why black people get frustrated when they hear that response.

You’re White and Marched With Dr. King: So What?

I think this is well worth a read, and even if you don't particularly agree with the conclusions it draws, I think it gives a much more accurate perspective of some of the BLM people-- and the frustration with the 1960's argument... it isn't the 1960s anymore.

I do think that Bernie needs to seriously talk about racial injustice as an issue separate to economic equality. Sandra Bland was college educated, Christian Taylor (killed yesterday) was a college football player. It's a lot more systematic than just not being paid enough, or not getting to college-- though that's definitely part of it.


That argument would only make sense if the BLM movement kept interrupting other campaign events which they haven't. Not even Republican held ones. If I recall Sanders has been the only one to mention Sandra Bland etc on the campaign trail. Also worth noting this wasn't a Sanders event he was just asked to speak there which makes the event more bizarre as they were waiting for him.
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
LimpingGoat
Profile Joined January 2015
898 Posts
August 09 2015 04:10 GMT
#43589
On August 09 2015 09:26 Eskendereya wrote:


Poor Bernie Sanders.


Holy shit, why doesn't Bernie Sanders have security? Also, that video would be much more enjoyable if there wasn't some fucker telling me how to feel about it every 5 seconds while watching.
Shiragaku
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Hong Kong4308 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-08-09 05:06:23
August 09 2015 04:38 GMT
#43590
As annoying as these protesters may be to some people, I am pretty irked when I hear Bernie supporters speaking to these issues and protesters as if they should bow down to Bernie for seemingly being on their side. The memories of the Paul fanboys lecturing racial minorities of how they should bow down to the great Paul because he also opposed excessive use of power. This kind of condescension is very similar to the sudden shift in attitude when the civil rights movement went from focusing on the barbaric South to the problems in the North which is where the real controversy started
I know some people here went "WTF, this guy marched with MLK and fought against segregation" but so did Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton (to a small extent)
Deathstar
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
9150 Posts
August 09 2015 04:51 GMT
#43591
Why is Bernie being targetted by BLM? These "protestors" should go after Hillary who's probably going to be the nominee and can implement change. Why Bernie?
rip passion
darthfoley
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States8004 Posts
August 09 2015 04:53 GMT
#43592
On August 09 2015 13:38 Shiragaku wrote:
As annoying as these protesters may be to some people, I am pretty irked when I hear Bernie supporters speaking to these issues and protesters as if they should bow down to Bernie for seemingly being on their side. The memories of the Paul fanboys lecturing racial minorities of how they should bow down to the great Paul because he also opposed excessive use of power.


Agreed. I'm a huge Bernie Sanders supporter, but the social media aura of BernieGod is getting a bit out of hand
watch the wall collide with my fist, mostly over problems that i know i should fix
Deathstar
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
9150 Posts
August 09 2015 05:20 GMT
#43593
On August 09 2015 13:38 Shiragaku wrote:
As annoying as these protesters may be to some people, I am pretty irked when I hear Bernie supporters speaking to these issues and protesters as if they should bow down to Bernie for seemingly being on their side. The memories of the Paul fanboys lecturing racial minorities of how they should bow down to the great Paul because he also opposed excessive use of power. This kind of condescension is very similar to the sudden shift in attitude when the civil rights movement went from focusing on the barbaric South to the problems in the North which is where the real controversy started
I know some people here went "WTF, this guy marched with MLK and fought against segregation" but so did Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton (to a small extent)


This is so petty. Bernie is bar-none the strongest advocate for minorities and poor people among the presidential candidates. Bernie supporters must be loyal and euphoric about him because the alternative is Hillary, who's slated to be the nominee barring a miracle by the people (political revolution). Why bring him down?

You say "seemingly on their side"... do you really think "seemingly" is the right word to describe Bernie on black people?
rip passion
Yoav
Profile Joined March 2011
United States1874 Posts
August 09 2015 05:21 GMT
#43594
On August 09 2015 13:51 Deathstar wrote:
Why is Bernie being targetted by BLM? These "protestors" should go after Hillary who's probably going to be the nominee and can implement change. Why Bernie?


Because they're not BLM.

Seriously... famously unethical person in race against famously stand-up, even naive, guy, and all of a sudden protesters out of nowhere keeps disrupting his speeches saying he's a racist, despite his better racial record than anyone else in the race. I mean, yeah, maybe people in the movement are that stupid. But I doubt it.
WolfintheSheep
Profile Joined June 2011
Canada14127 Posts
August 09 2015 05:38 GMT
#43595
On August 09 2015 14:21 Yoav wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 09 2015 13:51 Deathstar wrote:
Why is Bernie being targetted by BLM? These "protestors" should go after Hillary who's probably going to be the nominee and can implement change. Why Bernie?


Because they're not BLM.

Seriously... famously unethical person in race against famously stand-up, even naive, guy, and all of a sudden protesters out of nowhere keeps disrupting his speeches saying he's a racist, despite his better racial record than anyone else in the race. I mean, yeah, maybe people in the movement are that stupid. But I doubt it.

Ah, the classic "No True Scotsman" fallacy.

I don't know why people hold "protest" groups in such high regard, no matter what their cause is. Once they get large enough, there will be plenty of idiots under the banner.

And the longer they've existed for, the more their MOs will generally devolve into just being loud and disruptive. Partly because most have goals that will never be met in short time spans and they get collectively angrier about that, and partly because being loud and disruptive gets you a lot more attention than reaching out to the people who can assist your cause does.
Average means I'm better than half of you.
LimpingGoat
Profile Joined January 2015
898 Posts
August 09 2015 06:10 GMT
#43596
They are true BLM, the Seattle chapter even released statement supporting their actions.
Deathstar
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
9150 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-08-09 06:19:26
August 09 2015 06:14 GMT
#43597
Another perspective by AP. The disruption is sad but the crowd was awesome.

So I'm pretty open-minded about these 2 kids throwing a tantrum (whatever their political affiliation or objectives are), but man I had to fight a visceral "I'm getting tired of these black people" feeling for a while.

rip passion
GreenHorizons
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States24505 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-08-09 06:24:33
August 09 2015 06:24 GMT
#43598
From what I have gathered on the ground this was likely a stunt by an offshoot of BLM at most. Regardless Bernie gave his platform to some people who spoke about it at the rally.

You can watch some of it here.

"People like to look at history and think 'If that was me back then, I would have...' We're living through history, and the truth is, whatever you are doing now is probably what you would have done then" "Scratch a Liberal..."
Deathstar
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
9150 Posts
August 09 2015 06:38 GMT
#43599
Thanks for the link Greenhorizons. Yeah I'm over BLM. The Seattle rally WAS INSANE THOUGH. 15k people showed up! Bernie's speech begins at 1:23:33 in GH's vid

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-politics/wp/2015/08/08/bernie-sanders-leaves-seattle-stage-after-event-disrupted-by-black-lives-matter-protesters/
rip passion
Yoav
Profile Joined March 2011
United States1874 Posts
August 09 2015 06:42 GMT
#43600
On August 09 2015 14:38 WolfintheSheep wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 09 2015 14:21 Yoav wrote:
On August 09 2015 13:51 Deathstar wrote:
Why is Bernie being targetted by BLM? These "protestors" should go after Hillary who's probably going to be the nominee and can implement change. Why Bernie?


Because they're not BLM.

Seriously... famously unethical person in race against famously stand-up, even naive, guy, and all of a sudden protesters out of nowhere keeps disrupting his speeches saying he's a racist, despite his better racial record than anyone else in the race. I mean, yeah, maybe people in the movement are that stupid. But I doubt it.

Ah, the classic "No True Scotsman" fallacy.

I don't know why people hold "protest" groups in such high regard, no matter what their cause is. Once they get large enough, there will be plenty of idiots under the banner.

And the longer they've existed for, the more their MOs will generally devolve into just being loud and disruptive. Partly because most have goals that will never be met in short time spans and they get collectively angrier about that, and partly because being loud and disruptive gets you a lot more attention than reaching out to the people who can assist your cause does.


No, No True Scotsman would be if I were redefining BLM. My point was that the whole targeting Bernie thing is probably due to Hillary & Co., rather than an organic outgrowth of the movement. Yes, BLM people are defending them, since how can you not. And if this were happening to everybody, then, yeah, it would look less suspiscious. But the timing and targeting suggests something more directed. Are they literally paid Hillary Shills? Who knows. Could just be her having convinced a few people in the movement that Bernie is unelectable. Or maybe she offered jobs or favors, or who knows what. But I'm just not buying that BLM's entire movement of disruptive activists have decided that Bernie is the guy to go after, and she's obviously capable of this kind of thing and willing to do anything to win.
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