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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please.

In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up!

NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious.
Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action.
lastpuritan
Profile Joined December 2014
United States540 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-06-09 21:42:39
June 09 2015 21:41 GMT
#40561
On June 10 2015 06:31 Ghostcom wrote:
Uhh, they had Wall Street so you don't have to imagine... I get that you want to shit on US cops, but a least be a little honest whilst doing so.


During OWS, protesters did not hijack a bulldozer and chase police cars, or throw huge rocks and molotov cocktails.
Ghostcom
Profile Joined March 2010
Denmark4783 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-06-09 21:56:55
June 09 2015 21:52 GMT
#40562
On June 10 2015 06:41 lastpuritan wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 10 2015 06:31 Ghostcom wrote:
Uhh, they had Wall Street so you don't have to imagine... I get that you want to shit on US cops, but a least be a little honest whilst doing so.


During OWS, protesters did not hijack a bulldozer and chase police cars, or throw huge rocks and molotov cocktails.


No it was all completely peaceful...

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2049137/Occupy-Wall-Street-Violence-erupts-police-clash-protesters.html

EDIT: That was hit #1 of 176.000 hits on google. Point being, US police has handled violent protests fairly decently without resorting to mass shootings which seemed to be implied in your post.
lastpuritan
Profile Joined December 2014
United States540 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-06-09 21:58:33
June 09 2015 21:57 GMT
#40563
Seems very peaceful to me. :D I mean, what would happen if a group of protesters throw molotovs at their car when cops were in it?
cLutZ
Profile Joined November 2010
United States19574 Posts
June 09 2015 21:59 GMT
#40564
Occupy Wall Street was highly covered (maybe overly so?) by the media so there were cameras everywhere. We know that is a thing that keeps cops restrained.
Freeeeeeedom
Ghostcom
Profile Joined March 2010
Denmark4783 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-06-09 22:03:18
June 09 2015 22:00 GMT
#40565
On June 10 2015 06:57 lastpuritan wrote:
Seems very peaceful to me. :D I mean, what would happen if a group of protesters throw molotovs at their car when cops were in it?


http://rt.com/usa/208891-ferguson-police-tear-gas/

They would use tear gas to disperse crowds as it was no longer a legal demonstration. Whilst plenty could have been handled better in Ferguson, the protesters weren't exactly acting well.

EDIT: It seems odd that I always end up defending the US Police - they could and should do plenty of stuff better, but the sentiment in this thread is to portray them all as rabid racists are gunslingers who will go on a killing spree if they could get away with it.
Sermokala
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States14155 Posts
June 09 2015 22:29 GMT
#40566
The reason why OWS was very restrained was beacuse cops were able to have pre planned operations with lines of them in riot gear for them not to have to worry about their lives.
A wise man will say that he knows nothing. We're gona party like its 2752 Hail Dark Brandon
IgnE
Profile Joined November 2010
United States7681 Posts
June 09 2015 23:45 GMT
#40567
OWS fizzled out because the police and media squelched it. The idea that OWS was "overly" covered is preposterous. Ask 100 random people in Kansas or Illinois what they remember about OWS and it won't be much.
The unrealistic sound of these propositions is indicative, not of their utopian character, but of the strength of the forces which prevent their realization.
cLutZ
Profile Joined November 2010
United States19574 Posts
June 10 2015 00:39 GMT
#40568
There were 4 guys on the street in front of the Merc in Chicago and the media covered it at least weekly. Plus, of course the police "squelched" it, they were trespassing.
Freeeeeeedom
GreenHorizons
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States24130 Posts
June 10 2015 00:44 GMT
#40569
1.....2.... Bernie's Coming for you....

Watch your heels Hillary!
"People like to look at history and think 'If that was me back then, I would have...' We're living through history, and the truth is, whatever you are doing now is probably what you would have done then" "Scratch a Liberal..."
cLutZ
Profile Joined November 2010
United States19574 Posts
June 10 2015 00:49 GMT
#40570
On June 10 2015 09:44 GreenHorizons wrote:
1.....2.... Bernie's Coming for you....

Watch your heels Hillary!


OMG, thank you GH for re-introducing me to my favorite comedian...

Frank Luntz!
Freeeeeeedom
GreenHorizons
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States24130 Posts
June 10 2015 00:54 GMT
#40571
On June 10 2015 09:49 cLutZ wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 10 2015 09:44 GreenHorizons wrote:
1.....2.... Bernie's Coming for you....

Watch your heels Hillary!


OMG, thank you GH for re-introducing me to my favorite comedian...

Frank Luntz!


He is the purest sophist alive I think. At least in the sense of the word referring to:


+ Show Spoiler +
· How to win no matter how bad your case is.

· How to win friends and influence people

· How to succeed in business without really trying

· How to fall into a pigsty and come out smelling like a rose.

· How to succeed in life.

· How to play to win
"People like to look at history and think 'If that was me back then, I would have...' We're living through history, and the truth is, whatever you are doing now is probably what you would have done then" "Scratch a Liberal..."
cLutZ
Profile Joined November 2010
United States19574 Posts
June 10 2015 01:01 GMT
#40572
He has a youtube channel, its amazing. This is like watching Steven Colbert and Bill O'Reilly arguing with Barnie Frank. In fact, that also should be a show.
Freeeeeeedom
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
June 10 2015 13:46 GMT
#40573
The Obama administration is planning a series of actions this summer to rein in greenhouse-gas emissions from wide swaths of the economy, including trucks, airplanes and power plants, kicking into high gear an ambitious climate agenda that the president sees as key to his legacy.

The Environmental Protection Agency is expected to announce as soon as Wednesday plans to regulate carbon emissions from airlines, and soon after that, draft rules to cut carbon emissions from big trucks, according to people familiar with the proposals. In the coming weeks, the EPA is also expected to unveil rules aimed at reducing emissions of methane—a potent greenhouse gas—from oil and natural-gas operations.

And in August, the agency will complete a suite of three regulations lowering carbon from the nation’s power plants—the centerpiece of President Barack Obama’s climate-change agenda.

The proposals represent the biggest climate push by the administration since 2009, when the House passed a national cap-and-trade system proposed by the White House aimed at reducing carbon emissions.

Anticipating the rules, some of which have been telegraphed in advance, opponents of Mr. Obama’s regulatory efforts are moving to block them. Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell (R., Ky.), is urging governors across the country to defy the EPA by not submitting plans to comply with its rule cutting power-plant emissions.

Nearly all Republicans and some Democrats representing states dependent on fossil fuels say the Obama administration is going beyond the boundary of the law and usurping the role of Congress by imposing regulations that amount to a national energy tax driven by ideological considerations.


Source
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
KwarK
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
United States44183 Posts
June 10 2015 14:13 GMT
#40574
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/10/us/politics/marco-rubio-finances-debt-loans-credit.html?_r=1

Marco Rubio can't manage his household finances on $174,000 a year and a $800,000 book deal but thinks other politicians are the problem and that he can fix the government budget.

Not saying that Democrats are any less delusional but wow. It's a long story of ignorance, mismanagement and incompetence that should leave any reasonable person thinking "you know what, I should see if I can get one of those guardianship things that senile people get when society judges them no longer capable of thinking straight", not "hey, I think I should run the country". Although that would be an action of someone aware enough to realize their own stunning limitations. Dunning-Kruger lives on.
ModeratorThe angels have the phone box
Danglars
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States12133 Posts
June 10 2015 17:54 GMT
#40575
On June 10 2015 22:46 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
Show nested quote +
The Obama administration is planning a series of actions this summer to rein in greenhouse-gas emissions from wide swaths of the economy, including trucks, airplanes and power plants, kicking into high gear an ambitious climate agenda that the president sees as key to his legacy.

The Environmental Protection Agency is expected to announce as soon as Wednesday plans to regulate carbon emissions from airlines, and soon after that, draft rules to cut carbon emissions from big trucks, according to people familiar with the proposals. In the coming weeks, the EPA is also expected to unveil rules aimed at reducing emissions of methane—a potent greenhouse gas—from oil and natural-gas operations.

And in August, the agency will complete a suite of three regulations lowering carbon from the nation’s power plants—the centerpiece of President Barack Obama’s climate-change agenda.

The proposals represent the biggest climate push by the administration since 2009, when the House passed a national cap-and-trade system proposed by the White House aimed at reducing carbon emissions.

Anticipating the rules, some of which have been telegraphed in advance, opponents of Mr. Obama’s regulatory efforts are moving to block them. Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell (R., Ky.), is urging governors across the country to defy the EPA by not submitting plans to comply with its rule cutting power-plant emissions.

Nearly all Republicans and some Democrats representing states dependent on fossil fuels say the Obama administration is going beyond the boundary of the law and usurping the role of Congress by imposing regulations that amount to a national energy tax driven by ideological considerations.


Source
Here we go again.

Nearly all Republicans and some Democrats representing states dependent on fossil fuels say the Obama administration is going beyond the boundary of the law and usurping the role of Congress by imposing regulations that amount to a national energy tax driven by ideological considerations.

“The Administration seems determined to double down on the type of deeply regressive regulatory policy we’ve already seen it try to impose on lower-and-middle-class families in every state,” Mr. McConnell said in a statement. “These Obama administration regulations share several things in common with the upcoming directives: they seem motivated more by ideology than science, and they’re likely to negatively affect the economy and hurt both the cost and reliability of energy for hard-working American families and small-business owners.”
Great armies come from happy zealots, and happy zealots come from California!
TL+ Member
kwizach
Profile Joined June 2011
3658 Posts
June 10 2015 18:49 GMT
#40576
On June 11 2015 02:54 Danglars wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 10 2015 22:46 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
The Obama administration is planning a series of actions this summer to rein in greenhouse-gas emissions from wide swaths of the economy, including trucks, airplanes and power plants, kicking into high gear an ambitious climate agenda that the president sees as key to his legacy.

The Environmental Protection Agency is expected to announce as soon as Wednesday plans to regulate carbon emissions from airlines, and soon after that, draft rules to cut carbon emissions from big trucks, according to people familiar with the proposals. In the coming weeks, the EPA is also expected to unveil rules aimed at reducing emissions of methane—a potent greenhouse gas—from oil and natural-gas operations.

And in August, the agency will complete a suite of three regulations lowering carbon from the nation’s power plants—the centerpiece of President Barack Obama’s climate-change agenda.

The proposals represent the biggest climate push by the administration since 2009, when the House passed a national cap-and-trade system proposed by the White House aimed at reducing carbon emissions.

Anticipating the rules, some of which have been telegraphed in advance, opponents of Mr. Obama’s regulatory efforts are moving to block them. Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell (R., Ky.), is urging governors across the country to defy the EPA by not submitting plans to comply with its rule cutting power-plant emissions.

Nearly all Republicans and some Democrats representing states dependent on fossil fuels say the Obama administration is going beyond the boundary of the law and usurping the role of Congress by imposing regulations that amount to a national energy tax driven by ideological considerations.


Source
Here we go again.

Show nested quote +
Nearly all Republicans and some Democrats representing states dependent on fossil fuels say the Obama administration is going beyond the boundary of the law and usurping the role of Congress by imposing regulations that amount to a national energy tax driven by ideological considerations.

“The Administration seems determined to double down on the type of deeply regressive regulatory policy we’ve already seen it try to impose on lower-and-middle-class families in every state,” Mr. McConnell said in a statement. “These Obama administration regulations share several things in common with the upcoming directives: they seem motivated more by ideology than science, and they’re likely to negatively affect the economy and hurt both the cost and reliability of energy for hard-working American families and small-business owners.”

The quote "they seem motivated more by ideology than science", coming from Mitch McConnell, is just too funny. Talk about being a massive hypocrite.
"Oedipus ruined a great sex life by asking too many questions." -- Stephen Colbert
heliusx
Profile Blog Joined May 2012
United States2306 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-06-10 20:26:07
June 10 2015 20:25 GMT
#40577
On June 11 2015 03:49 kwizach wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 11 2015 02:54 Danglars wrote:
On June 10 2015 22:46 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
The Obama administration is planning a series of actions this summer to rein in greenhouse-gas emissions from wide swaths of the economy, including trucks, airplanes and power plants, kicking into high gear an ambitious climate agenda that the president sees as key to his legacy.

The Environmental Protection Agency is expected to announce as soon as Wednesday plans to regulate carbon emissions from airlines, and soon after that, draft rules to cut carbon emissions from big trucks, according to people familiar with the proposals. In the coming weeks, the EPA is also expected to unveil rules aimed at reducing emissions of methane—a potent greenhouse gas—from oil and natural-gas operations.

And in August, the agency will complete a suite of three regulations lowering carbon from the nation’s power plants—the centerpiece of President Barack Obama’s climate-change agenda.

The proposals represent the biggest climate push by the administration since 2009, when the House passed a national cap-and-trade system proposed by the White House aimed at reducing carbon emissions.

Anticipating the rules, some of which have been telegraphed in advance, opponents of Mr. Obama’s regulatory efforts are moving to block them. Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell (R., Ky.), is urging governors across the country to defy the EPA by not submitting plans to comply with its rule cutting power-plant emissions.

Nearly all Republicans and some Democrats representing states dependent on fossil fuels say the Obama administration is going beyond the boundary of the law and usurping the role of Congress by imposing regulations that amount to a national energy tax driven by ideological considerations.


Source
Here we go again.

Nearly all Republicans and some Democrats representing states dependent on fossil fuels say the Obama administration is going beyond the boundary of the law and usurping the role of Congress by imposing regulations that amount to a national energy tax driven by ideological considerations.

“The Administration seems determined to double down on the type of deeply regressive regulatory policy we’ve already seen it try to impose on lower-and-middle-class families in every state,” Mr. McConnell said in a statement. “These Obama administration regulations share several things in common with the upcoming directives: they seem motivated more by ideology than science, and they’re likely to negatively affect the economy and hurt both the cost and reliability of energy for hard-working American families and small-business owners.”

The quote "they seem motivated more by ideology than science", coming from Mitch McConnell, is just too funny. Talk about being a massive hypocrite.


Instead of focusing on his hypocrisy why don't you focus on the validity of his statement? Politicians are all hypocrites, as are most people.
dude bro.
zlefin
Profile Blog Joined October 2012
United States7689 Posts
June 10 2015 21:56 GMT
#40578
Why are you focusing on someone's statement about a statement rather than addressing the underlying issues yourself, helius?
Also, there's nothing wrong with calling people out on hypocrisy. With enough work we could get some non-hypocritical politicians; since there are some such people, it stands to reason it's possible, in principle, to get such people into positions of power.
Great read: http://shorensteincenter.org/news-coverage-2016-general-election/ great book on democracy: http://press.princeton.edu/titles/10671.html zlefin is grumpier due to long term illness. Ignoring some users.
GreenHorizons
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States24130 Posts
June 10 2015 22:14 GMT
#40579
Would conservatives admit it was their policies and not their politicians that are losers if Bernie Sanders managed to win (as remote as a possibility as that seems to some people)?

Or would they continue to blame their messengers?
"People like to look at history and think 'If that was me back then, I would have...' We're living through history, and the truth is, whatever you are doing now is probably what you would have done then" "Scratch a Liberal..."
Gorsameth
Profile Joined April 2010
Netherlands22454 Posts
June 10 2015 22:20 GMT
#40580
For any ideology is it very hard to admit that you principles are the problem. To get someone to re-examine the place they hold in the world and the way the world looks at them is not easy.

I don't fault anyone for blaming the messenger when the other option is to admit that your view of the world is critically flawed.
It ignores such insignificant forces as time, entropy, and death
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