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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please.In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up! NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious. Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action. |
During his State of the Union address on Tuesday, President Barack Obama will lay out a plan to extend tax credits to the middle class by hiking taxes on wealthier Americans and big banks, according to senior administration officials.
Under the plan, the capital gains tax would be raised from its current level of 15 percent up to 28 percent for couples with incomes over $500,000 a year. The plan would also strip a tax break, known as a "step-up," that allows heirs to avoid capital gains taxes on large inheritances.
In addition, the plan would institute a new tax on the biggest financial institutions, basing the fee on liabilities in order to discourage risky borrowing. The administration says the fee would hit the roughly 100 banks that have assets of $50 billion or more.
The president's plan would use revenues from those tax code changes to finance credits aimed at the middle class, officials said. That includes extending the earned income tax credits to families without children, which would benefit an estimated 13 million low-income workers, while also tripling the maximum tax credits for child care in low- and middle-income homes.
"This proposal is probably the most impactful way we can address the manifest unfairness in our tax system," an administration official said.
The tax hikes on capital gains would run into heavy opposition from Republicans in the GOP-controlled Congress. Other elements of the president's plan, however, have enjoyed some degree of bipartisan support. House Ways and Means Committee Chairman Dave Camp (R-Mich.) has proposed a similar tax on big banks, and many Republicans favor the idea of broadening the earned income tax credit.
According to officials, the capital gains tax reforms would impact "almost exclusively" the top 1 percent of earners, carving out the majority of middle-income families from the hikes.
In addition to the tax credits, the president's proposals will also include a plan to give more workers access to retirement accounts. Employers with at least 10 workers who don't currently offer their employees a 401(k) would have to enroll them in what's known as an automatic IRA, a plan that Obama has included in previous budgets he's proposed.
Source
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On January 18 2015 12:16 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:Show nested quote +During his State of the Union address on Tuesday, President Barack Obama will lay out a plan to extend tax credits to the middle class by hiking taxes on wealthier Americans and big banks, according to senior administration officials.
Under the plan, the capital gains tax would be raised from its current level of 15 percent up to 28 percent for couples with incomes over $500,000 a year. The plan would also strip a tax break, known as a "step-up," that allows heirs to avoid capital gains taxes on large inheritances.
In addition, the plan would institute a new tax on the biggest financial institutions, basing the fee on liabilities in order to discourage risky borrowing. The administration says the fee would hit the roughly 100 banks that have assets of $50 billion or more.
The president's plan would use revenues from those tax code changes to finance credits aimed at the middle class, officials said. That includes extending the earned income tax credits to families without children, which would benefit an estimated 13 million low-income workers, while also tripling the maximum tax credits for child care in low- and middle-income homes.
"This proposal is probably the most impactful way we can address the manifest unfairness in our tax system," an administration official said.
The tax hikes on capital gains would run into heavy opposition from Republicans in the GOP-controlled Congress. Other elements of the president's plan, however, have enjoyed some degree of bipartisan support. House Ways and Means Committee Chairman Dave Camp (R-Mich.) has proposed a similar tax on big banks, and many Republicans favor the idea of broadening the earned income tax credit.
According to officials, the capital gains tax reforms would impact "almost exclusively" the top 1 percent of earners, carving out the majority of middle-income families from the hikes.
In addition to the tax credits, the president's proposals will also include a plan to give more workers access to retirement accounts. Employers with at least 10 workers who don't currently offer their employees a 401(k) would have to enroll them in what's known as an automatic IRA, a plan that Obama has included in previous budgets he's proposed. Source
The tax hikes could be structured a lot better. The tax on bank liabilities should encourage more use of equity (a good thing) but the cap gains hike does the opposite, and is more widespread than just financial firms. I'm not sure about the wisdom of raising tax rates on capital generally when the problem seems to be avoidance through loopholes, special deductions and international tax code arbitrage. I'd rather we deal with that than focus on rates, though the motivation is understandable. I don't know much about the step up, but from what I'm assuming it is off hand (cost basis change), sounds like good fix. Surprised carried interest isn't on the list, unless I'm just not seeing it. I file that one as a 'nice to have' but could do without it. Ending mortgage interest deduction, or limiting it would be good too.
I'm OK with the tax breaks, but I'd rather see something more broad-based like an increase in the standard deduction. They seem reasonable though, at least at first glance. Not sure how affordable they are and to what extent the cuts and hikes match.
Rhetoric like 'the manifest unfairness in our tax system' isn't necessary imo. We have one of the most progressive tax code in the OECD already, so it isn't really true and invites opposition.
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For one whose favorite forum posts are those that state the obvious, the relative progressiveness of the tax code compared to other countries is not indicative of fairness.
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Fox News actually apologized four times for their "no go zone" bullshit frenzy that has been infecting their airwaves the last week. Maybe Hell really has frozen over.
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On January 18 2015 17:56 IgnE wrote:
For one whose favorite forum posts are those that state the obvious, the relative progressiveness of the tax code compared to other countries is not indicative of fairness.
So what is?
The theme seems to be that the rich aren't paying enough relative to everyone else. The plan is to raise taxes on the rich and cut taxes for the poor, which would increase tax progressiveness. The logic seems to be that taxes aren't progressive enough, and that lack of progressiveness is unfair. If it is something else that's unfair I'd like to know what it is, since the policies employed seem to be directly targeting progressiveness. There has also been rhetoric in the past attacking the rich for not paying their 'fair share', so again, progressiveness seems to be the issue.
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Even the most progressive might not be progressive enough in an unjust world.
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I find it funny that Obama suddenly has all these great ideas at a time when they're not going to go through the House and Senate. I can only assume that a fair share of democrats would probably also have objected these kinds of reforms so I guess it's less embarrassing if it at least looks like he has tried.
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On January 19 2015 05:04 Nyxisto wrote:
I find it funny that Obama suddenly has all these great ideas at a time when they're not going to go through the house and senate. I can only assume that a fair share of democrats would probably also have objected these kinds of reforms so at least it's less embarrassing if it at least looks like he tries.
It's also legacy time. If he's going to be known as a president who just couldn't get anything through Congress, better to write his own history and cast himself as a victim of Republican partisan politics and obstructionism than admit he couldn't negotiate his way out of a wet paper bag.
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On January 19 2015 05:00 IgnE wrote:
Even the most progressive might not be progressive enough in an unjust world.
::HUG::
I think you needed that 
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On January 19 2015 05:13 JonnyBNoHo wrote:Show nested quote +On January 19 2015 05:00 IgnE wrote:
Even the most progressive might not be progressive enough in an unjust world. ::HUG:: I think you needed that
how much are you gonna charge him for that hug?
:p
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On January 19 2015 05:43 Doublemint wrote:Show nested quote +On January 19 2015 05:13 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On January 19 2015 05:00 IgnE wrote:
Even the most progressive might not be progressive enough in an unjust world. ::HUG:: I think you needed that how much are you gonna charge him for that hug? :p
The hug is FREE!*
+ Show Spoiler + plus all applicable taxes 
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Cayman Islands24199 Posts
On January 18 2015 16:40 JonnyBNoHo wrote:Show nested quote +On January 18 2015 12:16 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:During his State of the Union address on Tuesday, President Barack Obama will lay out a plan to extend tax credits to the middle class by hiking taxes on wealthier Americans and big banks, according to senior administration officials.
Under the plan, the capital gains tax would be raised from its current level of 15 percent up to 28 percent for couples with incomes over $500,000 a year. The plan would also strip a tax break, known as a "step-up," that allows heirs to avoid capital gains taxes on large inheritances.
In addition, the plan would institute a new tax on the biggest financial institutions, basing the fee on liabilities in order to discourage risky borrowing. The administration says the fee would hit the roughly 100 banks that have assets of $50 billion or more.
The president's plan would use revenues from those tax code changes to finance credits aimed at the middle class, officials said. That includes extending the earned income tax credits to families without children, which would benefit an estimated 13 million low-income workers, while also tripling the maximum tax credits for child care in low- and middle-income homes.
"This proposal is probably the most impactful way we can address the manifest unfairness in our tax system," an administration official said.
The tax hikes on capital gains would run into heavy opposition from Republicans in the GOP-controlled Congress. Other elements of the president's plan, however, have enjoyed some degree of bipartisan support. House Ways and Means Committee Chairman Dave Camp (R-Mich.) has proposed a similar tax on big banks, and many Republicans favor the idea of broadening the earned income tax credit.
According to officials, the capital gains tax reforms would impact "almost exclusively" the top 1 percent of earners, carving out the majority of middle-income families from the hikes.
In addition to the tax credits, the president's proposals will also include a plan to give more workers access to retirement accounts. Employers with at least 10 workers who don't currently offer their employees a 401(k) would have to enroll them in what's known as an automatic IRA, a plan that Obama has included in previous budgets he's proposed. Source The tax hikes could be structured a lot better. The tax on bank liabilities should encourage more use of equity (a good thing) but the cap gains hike does the opposite, and is more widespread than just financial firms. I'm not sure about the wisdom of raising tax rates on capital generally when the problem seems to be avoidance through loopholes, special deductions and international tax code arbitrage. I'd rather we deal with that than focus on rates, though the motivation is understandable. I don't know much about the step up, but from what I'm assuming it is off hand (cost basis change), sounds like good fix. Surprised carried interest isn't on the list, unless I'm just not seeing it. I file that one as a 'nice to have' but could do without it. Ending mortgage interest deduction, or limiting it would be good too. I'm OK with the tax breaks, but I'd rather see something more broad-based like an increase in the standard deduction. They seem reasonable though, at least at first glance. Not sure how affordable they are and to what extent the cuts and hikes match. Rhetoric like 'the manifest unfairness in our tax system' isn't necessary imo. We have one of the most progressive tax code in the OECD already, so it isn't really true and invites opposition.
need for closing loopholes isn't really an argument against equalizing capital gains and wage income tax. first step and hardest step imo
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On January 19 2015 06:01 oneofthem wrote:Show nested quote +On January 18 2015 16:40 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On January 18 2015 12:16 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:During his State of the Union address on Tuesday, President Barack Obama will lay out a plan to extend tax credits to the middle class by hiking taxes on wealthier Americans and big banks, according to senior administration officials.
Under the plan, the capital gains tax would be raised from its current level of 15 percent up to 28 percent for couples with incomes over $500,000 a year. The plan would also strip a tax break, known as a "step-up," that allows heirs to avoid capital gains taxes on large inheritances.
In addition, the plan would institute a new tax on the biggest financial institutions, basing the fee on liabilities in order to discourage risky borrowing. The administration says the fee would hit the roughly 100 banks that have assets of $50 billion or more.
The president's plan would use revenues from those tax code changes to finance credits aimed at the middle class, officials said. That includes extending the earned income tax credits to families without children, which would benefit an estimated 13 million low-income workers, while also tripling the maximum tax credits for child care in low- and middle-income homes.
"This proposal is probably the most impactful way we can address the manifest unfairness in our tax system," an administration official said.
The tax hikes on capital gains would run into heavy opposition from Republicans in the GOP-controlled Congress. Other elements of the president's plan, however, have enjoyed some degree of bipartisan support. House Ways and Means Committee Chairman Dave Camp (R-Mich.) has proposed a similar tax on big banks, and many Republicans favor the idea of broadening the earned income tax credit.
According to officials, the capital gains tax reforms would impact "almost exclusively" the top 1 percent of earners, carving out the majority of middle-income families from the hikes.
In addition to the tax credits, the president's proposals will also include a plan to give more workers access to retirement accounts. Employers with at least 10 workers who don't currently offer their employees a 401(k) would have to enroll them in what's known as an automatic IRA, a plan that Obama has included in previous budgets he's proposed. Source The tax hikes could be structured a lot better. The tax on bank liabilities should encourage more use of equity (a good thing) but the cap gains hike does the opposite, and is more widespread than just financial firms. I'm not sure about the wisdom of raising tax rates on capital generally when the problem seems to be avoidance through loopholes, special deductions and international tax code arbitrage. I'd rather we deal with that than focus on rates, though the motivation is understandable. I don't know much about the step up, but from what I'm assuming it is off hand (cost basis change), sounds like good fix. Surprised carried interest isn't on the list, unless I'm just not seeing it. I file that one as a 'nice to have' but could do without it. Ending mortgage interest deduction, or limiting it would be good too. I'm OK with the tax breaks, but I'd rather see something more broad-based like an increase in the standard deduction. They seem reasonable though, at least at first glance. Not sure how affordable they are and to what extent the cuts and hikes match. Rhetoric like 'the manifest unfairness in our tax system' isn't necessary imo. We have one of the most progressive tax code in the OECD already, so it isn't really true and invites opposition. need for closing loopholes isn't really an argument against equalizing capital gains and wage income tax. first step and hardest step imo
Really it forces Republicans hand. They have to propose closing specific (significant) loopholes finally if they want a leg to stand on against the middle class tax cuts.
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Watch Romney come out in support of the tax changes :D
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On January 19 2015 06:01 oneofthem wrote:Show nested quote +On January 18 2015 16:40 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On January 18 2015 12:16 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:During his State of the Union address on Tuesday, President Barack Obama will lay out a plan to extend tax credits to the middle class by hiking taxes on wealthier Americans and big banks, according to senior administration officials.
Under the plan, the capital gains tax would be raised from its current level of 15 percent up to 28 percent for couples with incomes over $500,000 a year. The plan would also strip a tax break, known as a "step-up," that allows heirs to avoid capital gains taxes on large inheritances.
In addition, the plan would institute a new tax on the biggest financial institutions, basing the fee on liabilities in order to discourage risky borrowing. The administration says the fee would hit the roughly 100 banks that have assets of $50 billion or more.
The president's plan would use revenues from those tax code changes to finance credits aimed at the middle class, officials said. That includes extending the earned income tax credits to families without children, which would benefit an estimated 13 million low-income workers, while also tripling the maximum tax credits for child care in low- and middle-income homes.
"This proposal is probably the most impactful way we can address the manifest unfairness in our tax system," an administration official said.
The tax hikes on capital gains would run into heavy opposition from Republicans in the GOP-controlled Congress. Other elements of the president's plan, however, have enjoyed some degree of bipartisan support. House Ways and Means Committee Chairman Dave Camp (R-Mich.) has proposed a similar tax on big banks, and many Republicans favor the idea of broadening the earned income tax credit.
According to officials, the capital gains tax reforms would impact "almost exclusively" the top 1 percent of earners, carving out the majority of middle-income families from the hikes.
In addition to the tax credits, the president's proposals will also include a plan to give more workers access to retirement accounts. Employers with at least 10 workers who don't currently offer their employees a 401(k) would have to enroll them in what's known as an automatic IRA, a plan that Obama has included in previous budgets he's proposed. Source The tax hikes could be structured a lot better. The tax on bank liabilities should encourage more use of equity (a good thing) but the cap gains hike does the opposite, and is more widespread than just financial firms. I'm not sure about the wisdom of raising tax rates on capital generally when the problem seems to be avoidance through loopholes, special deductions and international tax code arbitrage. I'd rather we deal with that than focus on rates, though the motivation is understandable. I don't know much about the step up, but from what I'm assuming it is off hand (cost basis change), sounds like good fix. Surprised carried interest isn't on the list, unless I'm just not seeing it. I file that one as a 'nice to have' but could do without it. Ending mortgage interest deduction, or limiting it would be good too. I'm OK with the tax breaks, but I'd rather see something more broad-based like an increase in the standard deduction. They seem reasonable though, at least at first glance. Not sure how affordable they are and to what extent the cuts and hikes match. Rhetoric like 'the manifest unfairness in our tax system' isn't necessary imo. We have one of the most progressive tax code in the OECD already, so it isn't really true and invites opposition. need for closing loopholes isn't really an argument against equalizing capital gains and wage income tax. first step and hardest step imo
If you restructured along those lines I think it would be a net cut, not hike.
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I don't know how much play he's going to get playing robin hood tax politics. The middle class likely remembers his promise not to raise taxes on those making less than 250k, then forced into higher health insurance premiums backed by a tax-penalty structure. I don't think those ears are very receptive after making the choice to pay the same for less coverage or pay more for the coverage they had come to expect. I think his record stands too clear to try and recoup popular support this late in the game. 'Stick it to the rich' and the politics of envy is about as old as the playbook gets, and I think the American people won't buy it, for the most part.
The bigger story here is whether Joni Ernst can play on the big stage with a stinging rebuttal. I don't really think Boehner et al will force on kid gloves for her speech following the state of the union address. I grant you not many will actually hear it (these days, who can really suffer through the entirety of an Obama speech), but the secondary reporting will make it heard.
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Having a rebuttal to the state of the union seems rather unnecessary to me; just on general principle, debate can happen in the coming days, there's no need to waste air time right after.
Probably comes from the huge difference between a constitutionally mandated presentation, and someone being put up just to disagree with stuff (often not even someone that high profile)
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No one watches it anyway, right? Who can sit through an entire Obama speech anyway?
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On January 19 2015 10:46 zlefin wrote:
Having a rebuttal to the state of the union seems rather unnecessary to me; just on general principle, debate can happen in the coming days, there's no need to waste air time right after.
Probably comes from the huge difference between a constitutionally mandated presentation, and someone being put up just to disagree with stuff (often not even someone that high profile) The rebuttal is really just traditional at heart. In this case, it's a platform and a slight chance that they'll hit it out of the park.
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On January 19 2015 17:26 Danglars wrote:Show nested quote +On January 19 2015 10:46 zlefin wrote:
Having a rebuttal to the state of the union seems rather unnecessary to me; just on general principle, debate can happen in the coming days, there's no need to waste air time right after.
Probably comes from the huge difference between a constitutionally mandated presentation, and someone being put up just to disagree with stuff (often not even someone that high profile) The rebuttal is really just traditional at heart. In this case, it's a platform and a slight chance that they'll hit it out of the park.
Anything less than roping and castrating a Janus inspired hog with Boehner's and Obama's face on it and I'll be disappointed. The only time it's really remarkable is when someone does something easily ridiculed.
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EPT
