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US Politics Mega-thread - Page 1129

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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please.

In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up!

NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious.
Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action.
aksfjh
Profile Joined November 2010
United States4853 Posts
June 20 2014 17:31 GMT
#22561
On June 21 2014 02:27 Yoav wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 21 2014 00:47 GreenHorizons wrote:

Let me say first this thing sounds a bit sketchy. That being said, the servers only store email for 6 months with each users inbox having a 500mb limit. (this is common when running enterprise solutions.)



Which is why Wall St. firms have to store all that stuff indefinitely or be liable to the Feds. We really should demand that kind of accountability of our government.


That costs money that Congress doesn't want to give them.
Roswell
Profile Joined November 2013
United States250 Posts
June 20 2014 17:50 GMT
#22562
No worries Saryph, heres a pretty good article for explaining basic common questions Link
Would it really cost 10 million to back up emails? Gmail for me has saved since 06, (the ones I havent deleted.) its text for gods sake. What is each email less than 140KB?
"You are the bravest boy I have ever met"
ticklishmusic
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
United States15977 Posts
June 20 2014 17:54 GMT
#22563
On June 21 2014 02:50 Roswell wrote:
No worries Saryph, heres a pretty good article for explaining basic common questions Link
Would it really cost 10 million to back up emails? Gmail for me has saved since 06, (the ones I havent deleted.) its text for gods sake. What is each email less than 140KB?


Google also collects a significant amount of data from your emails (not reading your emails necessarily) and uses it to generate ad revenue as well as analyzing and selling it generate even more money.
(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻
Roswell
Profile Joined November 2013
United States250 Posts
June 20 2014 17:57 GMT
#22564
But 10 million dollars? I could go out and buy 4 Hardrives and have a trillion emails for 200$
"You are the bravest boy I have ever met"
Jormundr
Profile Joined July 2011
United States1678 Posts
June 20 2014 18:00 GMT
#22565
On June 21 2014 02:57 Roswell wrote:
But 10 million dollars? I could go out and buy 4 Hardrives and have a trillion emails for 200$

Yeah but what if they failed?
Capitalism is beneficial for people who work harder than other people. Under capitalism the only way to make more money is to work harder then your competitors whether they be other companies or workers. ~ Vegetarian
ticklishmusic
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
United States15977 Posts
June 20 2014 18:02 GMT
#22566
On June 21 2014 02:57 Roswell wrote:
But 10 million dollars? I could go out and buy 4 Hardrives and have a trillion emails for 200$


Okay sure

Except the IRS now needs to find a location for the hard drives/ servers, pay for utilities and hire a team of techs to administer them. I'm sure I'm forgetting a bunch of other expenses as well.
(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻
zlefin
Profile Blog Joined October 2012
United States7689 Posts
June 20 2014 18:02 GMT
#22567
It's pretty pathetic to lose records. Storing text data is cheap; I see no reason not to have the government backup such stuff forever in case it's needed.
Great read: http://shorensteincenter.org/news-coverage-2016-general-election/ great book on democracy: http://press.princeton.edu/titles/10671.html zlefin is grumpier due to long term illness. Ignoring some users.
GreenHorizons
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States24505 Posts
June 20 2014 18:04 GMT
#22568
Which is why Wall St. firms have to store all that stuff indefinitely or be liable to the Feds. We really should demand that kind of accountability of our government.


It's expensive. I'll let you guess who wouldn't want to give the IRS money for infrastructure improvements...

But it's bad reasoning to say "nothing happens" means "no scandal." Nobody was arrested for obviously illegal activity prompting the financial meltdown. Did no-one do anything wrong? Silvio Berlusconi repeatedly evaded conviction. Did he really not do anything illegal before they finally busted him? Al Capone? Hell, Narendra Modi? The Clintons financial dealings?


You forgot the financial collapse and The Iraq War among others but yeah.

The timeline is really damning.


Not really, but it doesn't help much either

Neither is it plausible for 6 hard drives to have crashed in the time-frame we know emails were being exchanged concerning the targeting of conservative groups and Lerner's attempts to get Justice Department criminal proceedings. The redundancy inherently present in multiple layers makes it highly unlikely.


Yeah it really is. Not to mention the source you quoted clearly didn't even know some of the basic facts IE. The "tapes only go back 6 months.

5. All email servers in a professional organization use TAPE backup. Meaning if all the above fails, you can restore the server using the TAPE backups.

6. If they are talking about her local PC, then it’s a simple matter of going to the servers which have the email and getting them from the servers. If the servers have removed the data you can still get them by using the backups of the servers to recover the emails.


And his first 4 points don't even apply because as we know they (legally required documents) were saved to her PC's HD not a server.

The only significant issue is whether there is policy regarding the redundancy of files like those and whether anything unusual happened there.

The guy says he didn't personally know and when he found out he told Congress the next day. Ryan clearly already decided he can attack the guys character and declare his testimony is untrue (criminal).


@1:20 "What did you do with it?"

@2:40 looks like Ryan was the one who got laid out.

Haha @~3:15 Even Paul Ryan can't keep a straight face during his shtick.

He insists he never asked a single question... Talk about grandstanding...
"People like to look at history and think 'If that was me back then, I would have...' We're living through history, and the truth is, whatever you are doing now is probably what you would have done then" "Scratch a Liberal..."
zlefin
Profile Blog Joined October 2012
United States7689 Posts
June 20 2014 19:19 GMT
#22569
There's too much grandstanding in general in committee hearings. There should be a rule against grandstanding and pontificating; the point of the hearings is to hear from witnesses; so they should have to ask questions or move on.
Great read: http://shorensteincenter.org/news-coverage-2016-general-election/ great book on democracy: http://press.princeton.edu/titles/10671.html zlefin is grumpier due to long term illness. Ignoring some users.
Gorsameth
Profile Joined April 2010
Netherlands22703 Posts
June 20 2014 19:22 GMT
#22570
On June 21 2014 04:19 zlefin wrote:
There's too much grandstanding in general in committee hearings. There should be a rule against grandstanding and pontificating; the point of the hearings is to hear from witnesses; so they should have to ask questions or move on.

Keep the media out of the hearings and there is no one to grandstand for.
Or you know, get someone to lead the hearing who will actually tell someone to stfu when they cross the line.
It ignores such insignificant forces as time, entropy, and death
aksfjh
Profile Joined November 2010
United States4853 Posts
June 20 2014 19:37 GMT
#22571
On June 21 2014 04:22 Gorsameth wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 21 2014 04:19 zlefin wrote:
There's too much grandstanding in general in committee hearings. There should be a rule against grandstanding and pontificating; the point of the hearings is to hear from witnesses; so they should have to ask questions or move on.

Keep the media out of the hearings and there is no one to grandstand for.
Or you know, get someone to lead the hearing who will actually tell someone to stfu when they cross the line.

You can't just kick out the media, but I think it might go a long ways simply to get rid of cameras and audio in there...
Adreme
Profile Joined June 2011
United States5574 Posts
June 20 2014 19:40 GMT
#22572
On June 21 2014 04:37 aksfjh wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 21 2014 04:22 Gorsameth wrote:
On June 21 2014 04:19 zlefin wrote:
There's too much grandstanding in general in committee hearings. There should be a rule against grandstanding and pontificating; the point of the hearings is to hear from witnesses; so they should have to ask questions or move on.

Keep the media out of the hearings and there is no one to grandstand for.
Or you know, get someone to lead the hearing who will actually tell someone to stfu when they cross the line.

You can't just kick out the media, but I think it might go a long ways simply to get rid of cameras and audio in there...


They do have closed door meetings without cameras and media present and they typically are much nicer and they focus on getting information but when you bring cameras in its time to grandstand.
aksfjh
Profile Joined November 2010
United States4853 Posts
June 20 2014 19:43 GMT
#22573
On June 21 2014 04:40 Adreme wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 21 2014 04:37 aksfjh wrote:
On June 21 2014 04:22 Gorsameth wrote:
On June 21 2014 04:19 zlefin wrote:
There's too much grandstanding in general in committee hearings. There should be a rule against grandstanding and pontificating; the point of the hearings is to hear from witnesses; so they should have to ask questions or move on.

Keep the media out of the hearings and there is no one to grandstand for.
Or you know, get someone to lead the hearing who will actually tell someone to stfu when they cross the line.

You can't just kick out the media, but I think it might go a long ways simply to get rid of cameras and audio in there...


They do have closed door meetings without cameras and media present and they typically are much nicer and they focus on getting information but when you bring cameras in its time to grandstand.

Well, yea. The issue is that these are public hearings held by Congress. It's important that they're public due to accountability and whatnot, just like most trials.
xDaunt
Profile Joined March 2010
United States17988 Posts
June 20 2014 23:26 GMT
#22574
Looks like there was a little bit of premature self-congratulation by the left on the Scott Walker thing:

Many journalists and partisan Democrats excitedly reported Thursday that Scott Walker was at the center of a "criminal scheme" in which Walker's campaign illegally coordinated political activity with outside organizations. What these reports either downplayed or ignored altogether is that two judges, one at the state level and one at the federal level, have already found that the case against Walker has no merit and must be halted.

"The theory of 'coordination' forming the basis of the investigation, including the basis of probable cause for home raids, is not supported under Wisconsin law and, if it were, would violate the United States Constitution," federal judge Rudolph Randa ruled in May. For more on the case, which is being appealed, read Christian Schneider at the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel and Philip Klein at the Washington Examiner.


Source
zlefin
Profile Blog Joined October 2012
United States7689 Posts
June 20 2014 23:31 GMT
#22575
Tis a pity so many on both (all) sides tend to rush to judgement instead of waiting for all the facts to come out and looking through them carefully.
Great read: http://shorensteincenter.org/news-coverage-2016-general-election/ great book on democracy: http://press.princeton.edu/titles/10671.html zlefin is grumpier due to long term illness. Ignoring some users.
ticklishmusic
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
United States15977 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-06-20 23:48:28
June 20 2014 23:47 GMT
#22576
On June 21 2014 08:26 xDaunt wrote:
Looks like there was a little bit of premature self-congratulation by the left on the Scott Walker thing:

Show nested quote +
Many journalists and partisan Democrats excitedly reported Thursday that Scott Walker was at the center of a "criminal scheme" in which Walker's campaign illegally coordinated political activity with outside organizations. What these reports either downplayed or ignored altogether is that two judges, one at the state level and one at the federal level, have already found that the case against Walker has no merit and must be halted.

"The theory of 'coordination' forming the basis of the investigation, including the basis of probable cause for home raids, is not supported under Wisconsin law and, if it were, would violate the United States Constitution," federal judge Rudolph Randa ruled in May. For more on the case, which is being appealed, read Christian Schneider at the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel and Philip Klein at the Washington Examiner.


Source


First, I don't really think there's any self-congratulating going on (I mean, I personally don't crow whenever someone with different political stances from me gets in trouble). If anything, you're the one sounding a little self-congratulatory here.

Second, the judges halted the investigation because they found that the reasons for investigation was not good enough. That's like saying police can't go into a house to look for drugs because they don't have a warrant because they don't have enough evidence to suspect there are drugs there, not that there are no drugs in the house. It's not a subtle difference by any means, though the writer of that article tries to make the leap from one to the other (shoddy journalism, zzz).

Third, the case can be reopened, and I bet there's a good chance that it will be.
(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻
xDaunt
Profile Joined March 2010
United States17988 Posts
June 21 2014 00:26 GMT
#22577
On June 21 2014 08:47 ticklishmusic wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 21 2014 08:26 xDaunt wrote:
Looks like there was a little bit of premature self-congratulation by the left on the Scott Walker thing:

Many journalists and partisan Democrats excitedly reported Thursday that Scott Walker was at the center of a "criminal scheme" in which Walker's campaign illegally coordinated political activity with outside organizations. What these reports either downplayed or ignored altogether is that two judges, one at the state level and one at the federal level, have already found that the case against Walker has no merit and must be halted.

"The theory of 'coordination' forming the basis of the investigation, including the basis of probable cause for home raids, is not supported under Wisconsin law and, if it were, would violate the United States Constitution," federal judge Rudolph Randa ruled in May. For more on the case, which is being appealed, read Christian Schneider at the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel and Philip Klein at the Washington Examiner.


Source


First, I don't really think there's any self-congratulating going on (I mean, I personally don't crow whenever someone with different political stances from me gets in trouble). If anything, you're the one sounding a little self-congratulatory here.

Second, the judges halted the investigation because they found that the reasons for investigation was not good enough. That's like saying police can't go into a house to look for drugs because they don't have a warrant because they don't have enough evidence to suspect there are drugs there, not that there are no drugs in the house. It's not a subtle difference by any means, though the writer of that article tries to make the leap from one to the other (shoddy journalism, zzz).

Third, the case can be reopened, and I bet there's a good chance that it will be.

Go read the federal order. The judge ruled that the investigation was likely frivolous as a matter of law. Specifically, the judge stated that the Wisconsin Club for Growth (and by implication, Walker) was likely to win its suit against the State for conducting the investigation because, as a matter of law, their conduct is lawful and protected by the First Amendment.

So no, the investigation probably is not going to be reopened.
oneofthem
Profile Blog Joined November 2005
Cayman Islands24199 Posts
June 21 2014 00:42 GMT
#22578
forgive me for not getting worked up about some politicized monkey trial when there are actual problems out there.
We have fed the heart on fantasies, the heart's grown brutal from the fare, more substance in our enmities than in our love
GreenHorizons
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States24505 Posts
June 21 2014 00:50 GMT
#22579
On June 21 2014 09:26 xDaunt wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 21 2014 08:47 ticklishmusic wrote:
On June 21 2014 08:26 xDaunt wrote:
Looks like there was a little bit of premature self-congratulation by the left on the Scott Walker thing:

Many journalists and partisan Democrats excitedly reported Thursday that Scott Walker was at the center of a "criminal scheme" in which Walker's campaign illegally coordinated political activity with outside organizations. What these reports either downplayed or ignored altogether is that two judges, one at the state level and one at the federal level, have already found that the case against Walker has no merit and must be halted.

"The theory of 'coordination' forming the basis of the investigation, including the basis of probable cause for home raids, is not supported under Wisconsin law and, if it were, would violate the United States Constitution," federal judge Rudolph Randa ruled in May. For more on the case, which is being appealed, read Christian Schneider at the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel and Philip Klein at the Washington Examiner.


Source


First, I don't really think there's any self-congratulating going on (I mean, I personally don't crow whenever someone with different political stances from me gets in trouble). If anything, you're the one sounding a little self-congratulatory here.

Second, the judges halted the investigation because they found that the reasons for investigation was not good enough. That's like saying police can't go into a house to look for drugs because they don't have a warrant because they don't have enough evidence to suspect there are drugs there, not that there are no drugs in the house. It's not a subtle difference by any means, though the writer of that article tries to make the leap from one to the other (shoddy journalism, zzz).

Third, the case can be reopened, and I bet there's a good chance that it will be.

Go read the federal order. The judge ruled that the investigation was likely frivolous as a matter of law. Specifically, the judge stated that the Wisconsin Club for Growth (and by implication, Walker) was likely to win its suit against the State for conducting the investigation because, as a matter of law, their conduct is lawful and protected by the First Amendment.

So no, the investigation probably is not going to be reopened.


I wouldn't be so sure...

This case is currently being reviewed by the 7th Circuit Court after Federal Judge Rudolf Randa (a member of the Federalist Society whose wife donated often to Walkers campaign and whose Judicial Assistant is the wife of Scott Walkers lawyer) ordered the investigation shut down and evidence collected by the investigators destroyed (the 7th Circuit immediately intervened to prevent the destruction).

Source
The decision is just the latest in a string of hot-button rulings Randa has issued since President George H.W. Bush appointed him to the federal bench in Milwaukee in 1992.

Previous decisions by Randa struck down the Freedom to Clinics Entrances Act, which prohibited people from blocking abortion clinic entrances; eliminated Wisconsin’s minimum markup on gasoline, which was meant to prevent stations from undercutting and driving competitors out of business; and declared more than $50 million off-limits to victims of clergy sexual abuse who were suing the Milwaukee archdiocese.
Source

The prosecutors say the work amounts to illegal campaign contributions. They contend Wisconsin Club for Growth doled out money to other groups, who then used it to help Walker or other Republicans.

For example, the organization gave $2.5 million to Wisconsin Manufacturers & Commerce, which in turn placed ads supporting Walker and Republicans, and criticizing their foes.

The club gave $4.6 million to Citizens for a Strong America — a sum that represented 99.9% of its revenue. The group then passed on some of the money to other groups — $1.2 million to Wisconsin Family Action, nearly $350,000 to Wisconsin Right to Life, and $245,000 to United Sportsmen of Wisconsin. In addition, Schmitz alleged, Citizens for a Strong America was the creation of Jordahl and Johnson. Johnson's wife, Valerie, was the treasurer and a signatory on the bank account, the brief alleges.


Source

It looks like the only way out is the fact that campaign contribution laws are a joke.

Either way looks like it will be tough to win re-election with such scrutiny on how he works with the groups that prevented his recall.
"People like to look at history and think 'If that was me back then, I would have...' We're living through history, and the truth is, whatever you are doing now is probably what you would have done then" "Scratch a Liberal..."
xDaunt
Profile Joined March 2010
United States17988 Posts
June 21 2014 01:33 GMT
#22580
On June 21 2014 09:42 oneofthem wrote:
forgive me for not getting worked up about some politicized monkey trial when there are actual problems out there.

Walker is an important figure in the Republican Party, so it matters what happens to him. But yes, this investigation into him has all of the stink of a trumped up, politicized, monkey trial, which is why nothing is going to happen to him.
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