US Politics Mega-thread - Page 1119

On June 17 2014 07:41 Roswell wrote:

Keyword "whatever" rule they want. But way to generalize and come off as a pompus ass.

On June 17 2014 07:05 Nyxisto wrote:


No shit. In the end the text boils down to the line of argumentation. "we don't know for sure", "there's so much uncertainty!", "climate science is so ideological and not real science", "it's all a stupid liberal conspirancy!".

And there's just no basis for that. Everyone who has spent five minutes inside of a technical institute knows that. Mistakes happen in every field, scientists aren't oracles, but in the end there is no fundamental flaw in climate science. Many other fields in which people trust the respective experts are way less exact and strict on their methods than climate science.

Trying to insert this fear of uncertainty into people is the logical next tactic after the strategy of blatantly ignoring facts and denying the thing altogether hasn't worked. It's like some kind of 60s counterculture thing, fighting against the "mainstream media". They're like the 16 year old goth kid in class who thinks he's cool because he's different, not noticing he's just making a clown of himself.

On June 17 2014 08:20 JonnyBNoHo wrote:

It does go over the line in places.

Those on the other side go over the line a lot as well, and that's just as unfortunate.

WASHINGTON (AP) — The United State is deploying up to 275 military troops to Iraq to protect the U.S. Embassy and other American interests and is considering sending a contingent of special forces soldiers as Iraq struggles to repel a rampant insurgency, officials said Monday. The White House insisted anew the U.S. would not be sending combat troops and thrusting America into a new Iraq war.

President Barack Obama, in a formal report to Congress, said the troops in in the deployment he was announcing would be equipped for combat and would remain in Iraq until the security situation improved. About 160 troops are already in Iraq, including 50 Marines and more than 100 Army soldiers. Some of those soldiers have only recently arrived.

Under the authorization Obama outlined Monday, a U.S. official said, the U.S. would put an additional 100 soldiers in a nearby third country where they would be held in reserve until needed.

On June 17 2014 09:36 Roswell wrote:

@jormdr woops wrong quote

What did you, do you expect? This is a gaming site, in a general forum, get over yourself.

Back to what I said. Meaning they can choose to shut down an entire community over a plant or mill without any discussion, no debate. And at the same time give billions to a company because they are "green" and want to make a nice poster child, and the other companies in that field now have to compete with an injection of 500 million into their competitor?

But why discuss when this is your response

"You are a fucking idiot"

On June 17 2014 05:47 Roswell wrote:
These are fucking theories. Not facts.

On June 17 2014 12:34 Roswell wrote:
http://m.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/jun/12/coal-mining-jobs-free-fall-after-epa-regs/

Do I really have to explain why adding more severe regulations might end a few jobs? Or on the other side giving hundreds of millions of dollars to green companies may or may not imbalance the ones who didnt receive a big ole check? But I'm glad you didnt attack me again or else that would just be silly. Actually I'm going to peace out, keep drinking the green cool aids and bomb fracking next and natural gas because north dakota is really thriving at this very moment and we cant possibly have any of that

The evangelical owners of Hobby Lobby made a fortune selling crafts supplies and made headlines fighting government-mandated birth control coverage. They’re also using their billions to sell the American public on the literal truth of Scripture — through a public school Bible curriculum, a huge museum around the corner from the Smithsonian and public forums on the faith of the Founding Fathers.

...Steve Green has said he felt he had no choice but to sue over the Affordable Care Act’s mandate that health insurance cover a full range of contraceptives. The Hobby Lobby plan covers most birth control, but Green has said he cannot in good conscience help employees pay for IUDs or emergency contraceptives because he believes them to be tantamount to abortion.

Mother Jones magazine has reported that Hobby Lobby covered some of the disputed methods of contraception in its health insurance plan until 2012, when the family began considering a lawsuit. The magazine also reported that Hobby Lobby contributes to an employee 401(k) plan with investments in pharmaceutical companies that make the IUD, emergency contraceptives and drugs used during abortions.


The pending Hobby Lobby ruling has thrust the Greens into the national spotlight, but the family’s mission is far bigger than a single court case. The Greens are spending hundreds of millions on a quiet but audacious bid to teach a wayward nation to trust, cherish — and heed — the Bible.

They’re building a huge museum dedicated to the Bible a few blocks from the Mall in Washington , with as much public space as the National Museum of American History. They’ve financed a lavish traveling exhibit as well, complete with a re-created Holy Land cave, a “Noah’s Ark experience” for kids and animatronic characters such as William Tyndale, who was burned at the stake for daring to translate the New Testament into English.


Most provocatively, they’ve funded a multimillion-dollar effort to write a Bible curriculum they hope to place in public schools nationwide. It will debut next fall as an elective in Mustang High School, a few miles from Hobby Lobby’s Oklahoma City headquarters.

A draft of the textbook for the first of four planned yearlong courses presents Adam and Eve as historical figures and introduces God as “faithful and good,” “gracious and compassionate” and “an ever-present help in times of trouble.” A list of “curses for disobeying the Lord” warns of defeat, fever and “disaster and panic in everything you do.”

Hobby Lobby founders David and Barbara Green and their three adult children — sons Steve and Mart and daughter Darsee Lett — have donated generously to Christian institutions over the years, but these projects are on another scale entirely. A source close to the family estimates the museum alone will end up costing as much as $800 million, including the acquisition of thousands of ancient artifacts.

The family, with a net worth that Forbes estimates at $5 billion, has not flinched from the price or scaled back its vision.
“Our goal … [is to] reintroduce this book to the nation,” Steve Green, president of Hobby Lobby, said last spring before the National Bible Association. “This nation is in danger because of its ignorance of what God has taught. We need to know it. And if we don’t know it, our future is going to be very scary.”

The family’s vision is beginning to stir concern, not just among the American Civil Liberties Union and atheist groups such as the Freedom From Religion Foundation, but even from some Bible scholars.
The plans that have been made public so far — including the high school curriculum — seem aimed at portraying Scripture as historically accurate and an unequivocal force for good, said John Kutsko, executive director of the international Society of Biblical Literature, the oldest and largest organization dedicated to biblical scholarship.

That approach fails to incorporate the latest scholarship, acknowledge that the Bible has also played a role as a tool of oppression or recognize different religious viewpoints, Kutsko said.
“It’s a simple, superficial, literal reading of the Bible,” Kutsko said.
In his view, that’s inappropriate both in a public high school and in a private museum that “by virtue of being adjacent to the Mall gives the impression that it’s almost a national museum,” he said.
Supporters, however, say they are confident the Greens will focus on scholarship rather than salvation in their public outreach.

The family does proselytize quite publicly three times a year, taking out full-page ads in newspapers across the country every Christmas, Easter and Independence Day. The ads celebrate the power of faith and direct readers to a toll-free number for Need Him Ministry, a global initiative to bring nonbelievers to Jesus.

On June 18 2014 04:20 Nyxisto wrote:
How is this working in the US? Is there no federal law that prohibits stuff like that being taught in public schools? And if that's not the case, how many states still allow that kind of curriculum?

But the draft materials MPS intends to use unequivocally fail to meet the legal standards required by our
Constitution. The materials show a clear Christian bias, treat the bible as historically accurate and true in
all respects, and make theological claims, to name but a few problems. Again, these criticisms are not
exhaustive, they were apparent at a glance. MPS should refuse to implement this program.

The entire text is rife with Christian bias
Perhaps the best example of the book’s Christian bias is the question it asks and answers: “What is God
like?”

It goes on to list only positive attributes (“Faithful and good,” “gracious and compassionate,”
orderly and disciplined,” “full of love”) or theologically Christian attributes (“always was, always will be,” “ever-present help in times of trouble,” “righteous judge”). None of the negative aspects of god are mentioned. For instance according to the same bible, in the Ten Commandments (Exodus 20:5), god says “I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation.” Not only does he admit that he is jealous, he promises to punish innocent children for the crimes of their parents in the Ten Commandments. Any fair, balanced listing of god’s
attributes must include those that god allegedly gives himself.

Another example is the book’s claim that “When humans rest and stop working on the Sabbath, they are
actually imitating God.”

This unsubstantiated invention is wildly inappropriate for a public school textbook.

The text treats the bible as historic truth
The materials also treat the bible as historically factual and accurate. There is no critical examination of
the bible’s claims or historical accuracy. The book assumes all the stories to be true, going so far as to list
biblical artifacts yet to be discovered including: Noah’s Ark, the Ark of the Covenant, the Holy Grail, and
Moses’ magic wand

That the class is elective does not cure the curriculum defects
Several media reports seem to indicate that some believe, because this class is an elective, it can be taught
with Christian bias. If MPS has based its approval of the course on the fact that it is an elective, this trust
is misplaced. As we pointed out in November, courts have summarily rejected arguments that
voluntariness excuses a constitutional violation

On June 18 2014 09:28 coverpunch wrote:
Geez, is this the politics thread or the "convince me there's a vast right wing religious conspiracy" thread

On June 18 2014 09:28 coverpunch wrote:
Geez, is this the politics thread or the "convince me there's a vast right wing religious conspiracy" thread