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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please. In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up! NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious. Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action. | ||
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xDaunt
United States17988 Posts
On June 18 2014 09:28 coverpunch wrote: Geez, is this the politics thread or the "convince me there's a vast right wing religious conspiracy" thread Given his posting history in this thread, the day that a real conservative religious zealot shows up around here will be one of the happier days in GreenHorizon's life. He will finally find real purpose on TeamLiquid! | ||
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GreenHorizons
United States24143 Posts
On June 18 2014 11:02 xDaunt wrote: Given his posting history in this thread, the day that a real conservative religious zealot shows up around here will be one of the happier days in GreenHorizon's life. He will finally find real purpose on TeamLiquid! Aww that's cute xDaunt  If you were to identify 3 top conservative leaders who would they be? | ||
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oneofthem
Cayman Islands24199 Posts
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darthfoley
United States8004 Posts
On June 18 2014 11:58 oneofthem wrote: there's no conspiracy, but some sort of movement is certainly there to remake society according to sharia i mean biblical image I can't believe you compared Muslim radicals to Christian fundamentalists! + Show Spoiler + | ||
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Nyxisto
Germany6287 Posts
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Roswell
United States250 Posts
Granted different circumstances and the crusades were lovely, but his is today now. | ||
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Danglars
United States12133 Posts
On June 18 2014 12:14 Nyxisto wrote: We had a guy (CA State Senator) out on bail for the Federal indictment of gun running that had dropped out of the race a while ago. The large and heavily publicized scandal made him drop out of the race, but not soon enough to have his name also removed from the ballot. He was still voted for by 287,590 citizens. Facepalm moment.Reminds me of this lawyer who beat his daugther up with a belt, it was all over the internet, and then the guy just ran for election anyway, because who gives a crap On June 18 2014 11:02 xDaunt wrote: When somebody comes in here saying he's a young-earth Creationist wanting Creationism taught in Public Schools, I want a picture of Horizen's face of glee. He's been preparing for that moment all of his life, whether or not he realizes it now.Given his posting history in this thread, the day that a real conservative religious zealot shows up around here will be one of the happier days in GreenHorizon's life. He will finally find real purpose on TeamLiquid! | ||
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xDaunt
United States17988 Posts
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oneofthem
Cayman Islands24199 Posts
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xDaunt
United States17988 Posts
On June 18 2014 13:25 oneofthem wrote: well both have elements of extremely brutal primitive society contained in the text. it's not that there is any christianity or islam, people take these things and do whatever with them. the radicals seek to revert to that kind of society and it absolutely is the same at that basic level. old testament is a bloody, genocidal and brutish piece of work. Pointing out the similarities in the text as a basis for equating the two is asinine. You're not only ignoring centuries of divergent evolution between the two faiths, but you're ignoring the obvious difference in present day manifestations of the two faiths. Even Bill Maher understands this. | ||
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Nyxisto
Germany6287 Posts
On June 18 2014 13:30 xDaunt wrote: Pointing out the similarities in the text as a basis for equating the two is asinine. You're not only ignoring centuries of divergent evolution between the two faiths, but you're ignoring the obvious difference in present day manifestations of the two faiths. Even Bill Maher understands this. Well just because it's not as bad as in Sudan doesn't mean it isn't worthy of discussion. The amount of evangelical radicalism in the US under the disguise of tolerance or free speech is scary. | ||
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oneofthem
Cayman Islands24199 Posts
On June 18 2014 13:30 xDaunt wrote: Pointing out the similarities in the text as a basis for equating the two is asinine. You're not only ignoring centuries of divergent evolution between the two faiths, but you're ignoring the obvious difference in present day manifestations of the two faiths. Even Bill Maher understands this. i've not made any such equivocation. i've in fact said your entire framing of comparing christian to islam is offbase, because of these developments as you've said. it's not a score keeping game. we have two religions that developed from very primitive sources with incredibly bad ideas. there is potential in both to be absolutely monstrous. therefore, it's a good idea to keep them from being monstrous through radicalization. | ||
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GreenHorizons
United States24143 Posts
On June 18 2014 13:13 Danglars wrote: We had a guy (CA State Senator) out on bail for the Federal indictment of gun running that had dropped out of the race a while ago. The large and heavily publicized scandal made him drop out of the race, but not soon enough to have his name also removed from the ballot. He was still voted for by 287,590 citizens. Facepalm moment. When somebody comes in here saying he's a young-earth Creationist wanting Creationism taught in Public Schools, I want a picture of Horizen's face of glee. He's been preparing for that moment all of his life, whether or not he realizes it now. It's funny you guys act like Creationists aren't a major policy driver from the right. TL is definitely the exception when it comes to the absence of fundamentalist conservatives, not the rule. I wish congress was as devoid of Creationists as TL (at least ones brave enough to post). Unfortunately the consequences are real. When we are already arguing whether we should listen to the advice of 97 or 3 scientists on an issue, trying to undermine science by forcing the Bible and Creationism to be taught as literal truth and fact is actually a big deal... Remember one of the reason the radicals want to kill us is because they think the US want's to convert 'Muslims' to 'Christianity' (Can't imagine where they would get that idea).... People seem to forget there is a very real 'War for Souls' intertwined with the 'War on Terror' American Christian missionaries have declared a "war for souls" in Iraq, telling supporters that the formal end of the US-led occupation next June will close an historic "window of opportunity". Organising in secrecy, and emphasising their humanitarian aid work, Christian groups are pouring into the country, which is 97 per cent Muslim, bearing Arabic Bibles, videos and religious tracts designed to "save" Muslims from their "false" religion. The International Mission Board, the missionary arm of the Southern Baptists, is one of those leading the charge. John Brady, the IMB's head for the Middle East and North Africa, this month appealed to the 16 million members of his church, the largest Protestant denomination in America. "Southern Baptists have prayed for years that Iraq would somehow be opened to the gospel," his appeal began. That "open door" for Christians may soon close. "Southern Baptists must understand that there is a war for souls under way in Iraq," his bulletin added, listing Islamic leaders and "pseudo-Christian" groups also flooding Iraq as his chief rivals. The missionaries are mainly evangelicals who reject talk of Muslims and Christians worshipping the same God. Source | ||
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xDaunt
United States17988 Posts
On June 18 2014 13:36 oneofthem wrote: i've not made any such equivocation. i've in fact said your entire framing of comparing christian to islam is offbase, because of these developments as you've said. it's not a score keeping game. we have two religions that developed from very primitive sources with incredibly bad ideas. there is potential in both to be absolutely monstrous. therefore, it's a good idea to keep them from being monstrous through radicalization. To whatever extent you aren't making the argument, you sure are supporting it, if not endorsing it, with your posts. This latest post included. | ||
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xDaunt
United States17988 Posts
On June 18 2014 13:32 Nyxisto wrote: Well just because it's not as bad as in Sudan doesn't mean it isn't worthy of discussion. The amount of evangelical radicalism in the US under the disguise of tolerance or free speech is scary. Honest discussion is one thing. Intellectual dishonesty and bigotry are entirely different. | ||
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oneofthem
Cayman Islands24199 Posts
On June 18 2014 13:48 xDaunt wrote: To whatever extent you aren't making the argument, you sure are supporting it, if not endorsing it, with your posts. This latest post included. it's not really bigotry just recognizing facts about these religion's ancient and sordid history. atavistic originalism about christian text isn't much better than whatever radical equivalent in islam. both radicalism will lead you to some version of a brutish world. sorry if you can't accept this lol. edit: looking back on this it seems that i was only talking about certain christian radicals. then you made it like a twilight level team Christian vs team Islam argument. get away from that stuff please it is just a waste of time | ||
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zlefin
United States7689 Posts
It seems more like the latter to me. Looking at each of them at different points in time; it looks quite like two different manifestations of the same thing; they're just at different stages in different times. | ||
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Danglars
United States12133 Posts
On June 18 2014 14:00 zlefin wrote: Have the religions gotten better/worse, or have the societies they are in gotten better/worse? It seems more like the latter to me. Looking at each of them at different points in time; it looks quite like two different manifestations of the same thing; they're just at different stages in different times. That's just what's been hotly contested: that one viewpoint is inventing the similarities when only heavily twisting each individually gets you anywhere close to the comparing and contrasting two like things. well both have elements of extremely brutal primitive society contained in the text. it's not that there is any christianity or islam, people take these things and do whatever with them. the radicals seek to revert to that kind of society and it absolutely is the same at that basic level. old testament is a bloody, genocidal and brutish piece of work. Pointing out the similarities in the text as a basis for equating the two is asinine. You're not only ignoring centuries of divergent evolution between the two faiths, but you're ignoring the obvious difference in present day manifestations of the two faiths. Even Bill Maher understands this. Well just because it's not as bad as in Sudan doesn't mean it isn't worthy of discussion. The amount of evangelical radicalism in the US under the disguise of tolerance or free speech is scary. Honest discussion is one thing. Intellectual dishonesty and bigotry are entirely different. It's impossible to talk about paths of religion/religious influence within and across societies because posters of one view will not recognize their disparate natures, period. | ||
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Silvanel
Poland4768 Posts
Still i dont think islam is the sole reason for violence, the problem is whole arabic/tribal/middleeastern culture (to which islam is of course core but isnt the only source). | ||
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zlefin
United States7689 Posts
To me it looks like the same stuff. They're also clearly unambiguously cut from the same cloth; so you'd expect a lot of similarity. At any rate; we're getting far from afield from us politics; so perhaps we should refocus on the issue there? | ||
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