On September 02 2012 13:35 TheYango wrote: But apparently the fans love Dagon Puck more than immaculate hard lane play or some of the smartest drafting in the game.
but that is just plain wrong, puppy does some of the best drafting around. How do you think they won over IG?! because puppy drafted better.
They let them take naga siren because they knew exactly how to counter her
Did you even read the context of my post? The "immaculate hard lane play" im referring to is LoH, and the "smartest drafting in the game" is Puppey.
I understand the Na'Vi hype, but Dendi definitely steals the spotlight from his teammates. LoH and Puppey in particular have been outstanding while Dendi's play, while flashy, honestly has not been exceptional compared to other 2nd position mid players this tournament.
On September 02 2012 13:25 Tevinhead wrote: Dendi is a player that likes to make stuff happen. He isn't afraid to do things that others would be. And when it pays off he makes really amazing plays, when it doesn't, well not as much notice is taken. However Dendi does deserve the hype in my opinion. His reaction times and consistency just speak of someone with a lot of natural talent. This is a player who was accused by the community in DOTA 1 for using macros and scripts because apparently no one can invoke with such speed and accuracy. Dendi responded by posting a video of himself in wtf mode with invoker and proceeding to cast every single spell in very quick succession whilst you can see his fingers. His fingers looked like that of a BW pro.
Puppey the hivemind, very very intelligent player, with deep game understanding.
Light Of Heaven the ever so consistent off-laner.
XBOCT the carry that seems to start carrying 15 minutes before other team's carry does.
Ars-art the secret carry, always linking with his team perfectly, creating kills and saving carries.
All of these players are amazing in their own right. But it's Dendi with that mechanical skill to pull off any idea he thinks of. The reaction time to dodge that which most couldn't and the balls to always try the improbable. And it's not just his skills, he's a funny guy, always likes to be a joker, always trolling. He's an entertainer in and out of the game as well as a very nice and mannered guy. Sort of like a cross between MC and White-Ra. Add all of this entertainment value and skill, then add the fact that he's in the most successful Dota 2 team, by far. And you have clear reasons for fanboyism.
OPA DENDI <3
Except if you compare Dendi's mid lane play to his counterparts on other teams, it's been arguably much less exceptional than Puppey or LoH.
The only reason it shines in the fans' eyes is because the 2nd position/mid lane role gets more attention, because it gets lots of kills.
Puppey/LOH have been carrying Na'vi the entire time. LOH in particular. Since they've made it into WB finals, LOH has been outperforming his team a vast majority of time.
On September 02 2012 12:58 Vixeness87 wrote: Guess where there are fans there are antifans? honestly this thread needs to be closed since its just a worthless thread that doesn't actually state anything other than QQ about na'vi being popular (as if in sc2 foreigners don't get more attention than koreans who are equally as good or better)
I agree, this is the anti fan thread. If you look closely, the OP is from Hong Kong, so we can safely assume he is cheering for his local teams. He is also dumbfounded by why we would cheer for a team that isn't from the scene he follows.
Really, Puppey was on Live on Three this week and talked about the matches this weekend, so I decided to check them out. They showed some really good style and Puppey is a great team captain. Even being new to DotA 2, I could tell shutting down the Naga-sleep combo was super impressive. And they have more character than any of the Chinese teams I have watched this weekend.
I don't think you read through my OP (I don't blame you, the post is indeed longer than I intended it to be), but I clearly stated that I didn't initially intend my post to be a rant, and I have probably been watching dota tournaments earlier than you have. Indeed I'm from Hong Kong, so what I say could possibly be biased, but that doesn't imply you could discard everything I say as being irrelevant... And neither am I judging what you say based on where you're from -_-
I'm indeed a little annoyed at Na'vi's popularity, and that's because I have seen many other dota teams who have displayed equal or superior skill. I haven't watched puppey's games, but I'm not denying that puppey is a great team captain. But you are overlooking other games that you may not have access to... You weren't around when the CK-Lina DS-kunkka, radiance-alchemist combos got invented and shut down, but those games show spectacular play as well. I'm not in any way denying that Puppey / Na'vi is a strong team, I'm just saying that there are perhaps better teams out there that you are ignorant to or indifferent of.
btw, the ck-lina combo got diminished due to the the shift to tri-laning, and ds-kunkka combo was no longer used due to it having no real late game pushing potential. Radiance alchemist was hard countered by morphling copying a replicate radiance tank, and AA's blast denying alchemist's ability to regen health. those are interesting plays you should definitely check out if you care.
you've been around forever, we haven't.
we get it.
na'vi are our heroes and ever since the first international when i got into watching competative dota they've been dominant, fun to watch, full of personality and just generally awesome. It should be fairly easy to understand, for the same reasons that you revere the chinese players, we revere navi.
The problem is not whether or not anyone respects / reveres teams or not. It's that sometimes Na'vi fans sometimes are so in love with their team that they forget that there are many teams that have had far more dominant runs than Na'vi has. And there are plenty of players in the Eastern world just as good as Na'vi and can beat them quite easily on any given day. Believing that Dendi is the best solo mid for instance, is quite funny especially considering he has been beat mid quite often this tournament, and his lane is covered up by LOH/Puppey's dominance this entire time.
At that time they were also losing, the whole team was kinda demotivated, but after they beat DK they have been on fire man! Playing really well, owning iG (looked at as 2nd best team? with LGD 1st?) Look at the games vs DK, iG and after winner bracket finals today vs LGD and then say if he has playing bad or not.
Haha I think TheYango said it best. It is a combination of Dendi's personality + role that rockets him to the spotlight. Sure there are moments when Dendi does those ridiculous skill shots or plays but everyone on that team is worth their weight in gold.
Puppey & LoH amazing reaction speed and clarity through that intense moment.
XBocts farming and carry is almost on par with the revered Chinese monsters. (Sylar, Lord Burning, etc) Or as close as it is going to get for Western Dota2.
It's not too complicated to comprehend, every sport has it's 1 signature star. Boxer, Dendi, Michael Jordan , Tiger Woods, Federer, etc.
Dendi is overrated and can't do wrong. Commentators hype him whatever he does and he usually plays heroes and a style that can sometimes land big flashy plays, but when they don't work nobody notices. I don't even cheer for Navi because of this ridiculous hype, even though I like Puppey and LOH and even Xboct at times. Dendi and his army of fanboys behind him ruin everything. I really hope LGD lets him take Pudge and then crush his face.
How can you say he was losing his lane, the 2nd and 3rd game against iG he had higher farm than ferrarri, he started off a bit behind, but than he caught up and was beating him in lane once he hit level2/3 on rubick. You are asking people why they are a fan of Na'Vi, it's because to us, the western people, Na'Vi is known. You can bring up ben merlini, I've heard his name, heard he was good in dota1, but this is dota 2, im new to the dota scene, so to me Na'Vi was the first team I heard of when I started playing so I like them more. I never heard of Ferrari430 before this tournament or any of the other chinese teams really.
I don't get why it is so crazy that there are a lot of fans for the best Western team in TI2. It is not arguable they are the best team in TI2, it is literally fact + Show Spoiler +
because every other western team got knocked out early.
I'm a newly made fan of LGD, but having love for a great team with great personality isn't something that should be just thrown away because they aren't as good as other teams in an "objective" scale. Does Dendi get a higher proportion of love than he deserves, compared to the rest of his team? Sure. But does that mean he doesn't deserve any praise? Of course not, he is a strong player. Once again, which western 2 player would you have over him on your team?
On September 03 2012 01:22 Ramanujan wrote: Dendi is overrated and can't do wrong. Commentators hype him whatever he does and he usually plays heroes and a style that can sometimes land big flashy plays, but when they don't work nobody notices. I don't even cheer for Navi because of this ridiculous hype, even though I like Puppey and LOH and even Xboct at times. Dendi and his army of fanboys behind him ruin everything. I really hope LGD lets him take Pudge and then crush his face.
On the contrary, when Dendi got his ass rocked vs. Orange, a lot of people noticed and commented. Even though he has a giant fan base, and a lot of people can be blind fanboys, it doesn't mean you should hate on him and his team. Especially since you really like the other players on it!
I love Ars-Art's play honestly. No one ever mentions him LOL, he's the Ringo Starr of Navi.
On September 03 2012 01:23 EchelonTee wrote: I don't get why it is so crazy that there are a lot of fans for the best Western team in TI2. It is not arguable they are the best team in TI2, it is literally fact + Show Spoiler +
because every other western team got knocked out early.
I'm a newly made fan of LGD, but having love for a great team with great personality isn't something that should be just thrown away because they aren't as good as other teams in an "objective" scale. Does Dendi get a higher proportion of love than he deserves, compared to the rest of his team? Sure. But does that mean he doesn't deserve any praise? Of course not, he is a strong player. Once again, which western 2 player would you have over him on your team?
On September 03 2012 01:22 Ramanujan wrote: Dendi is overrated and can't do wrong. Commentators hype him whatever he does and he usually plays heroes and a style that can sometimes land big flashy plays, but when they don't work nobody notices. I don't even cheer for Navi because of this ridiculous hype, even though I like Puppey and LOH and even Xboct at times. Dendi and his army of fanboys behind him ruin everything. I really hope LGD lets him take Pudge and then crush his face.
On the contrary, when Dendi got his ass rocked vs. Orange, a lot of people noticed and commented. Even though he has a giant fan base, and a lot of people can be blind fanboys, it doesn't mean you should hate on him and his team. Especially since you really like the other players on it!
I love Ars-Art's play honestly. No one ever mentions him LOL, he's the Ringo Starr of Navi.
LightofHeaven or Puppey or Ars-Art I would take over Dendi any day of the week. Finding a strong mid player is not that difficult. You can pick up even very high level public players and turn them into strong mid players in a competitive atmosphere (Yaphets came from a public gaming background and came to note when he utterly stomped 2009's Tinker who at the time was basically unbeatable). You cannot just build strong off laners, drafters, or support players in a short amount of time. It's literally impossible. All three of those players are far more important than XBOCT or Dendi. They are literally the backbone of the team, and without those 3 Dendi and XBOCT look utterly bad. LOH and Puppey for instance played terribly for the first day of prelims, and Navi's play tremendously suffered. When those two picked up their play, all of a sudden Xboct and Dendi look ALOT better. That's not a coincidence no matter how you spin it.
Make no mistake at all. Without Puppey, Ars-Art, and LOH, Dendi and XBOCT could have their pick of any other western players in the world and they still would never be able to compete against the elite Chinese teams. LOH beasting on offlane, Puppey with his strong jungle/drafts, and Ars-Art with his great support are the reasons why they compete. People focus too much on the mid/carry players, but don't realize LGD, IG, and DK were successful against everyone else because their supports/offlaners were about 3x stronger than everyone else's (espec the Western world who puts way too much emphasis on their mid/hard carry players).
On September 03 2012 01:32 EchelonTee wrote: I don't disagree that LoH, Puppey, and Smile are ballers. Now which western mid player would you take over Dendi?
So he has now gone from "undisputed best player of the world, the FLASH of dota" to "perhaps the best western mid player". :D
There are many I would pick before Dendi, by the way.
What you are doing is assuming that I am a blind fanboy. Where in my post did I say that he is the best player in the world? Not even once. How could I even dare comparing Dendi to Flash? The whole problem I have with anti-fans like you is that you attribute baseless claims to the fanbase and act like we are the ones being unreasonable.
Who would you pick before Dendi? Only one name really comes to mind really. If Dendi is such a mediocre mid player, there should be tons of names popping up.
On September 03 2012 01:32 EchelonTee wrote: I don't disagree that LoH, Puppey, and Smile are ballers. Now which western mid player would you take over Dendi?
Your mid player is not as important as a strong offlaner, support, drafter/jungler. Period. Those three not only are ballers, they are the backbone that ensures Navi is in a position to even make plays. XBOCT/Dendi's plays are a by product of LOH/Puppey/AA's strong early game mid game play that ensures that Dendi has the opportunities to make plays. This is why in interviews, Dendi never comes off as a guy that believes he is better than his team (other than when he is completely trolling) because he knows for a fact that those three are the ones who makes sure that they get anywhere.
On September 03 2012 01:32 EchelonTee wrote: I don't disagree that LoH, Puppey, and Smile are ballers. Now which western mid player would you take over Dendi?
Your mid player is not as important as a strong offlaner, support, drafter/jungler. Period. Those three not only are ballers, they are the backbone that ensures Navi is in a position to even make plays. XBOCT/Dendi's plays are a by product of LOH/Puppey/AA's strong early game mid game play that ensures that Dendi has the opportunities to make plays. This is why in interviews, Dendi never comes off as a guy that believes he is better than his team (other than when he is completely trolling) because he knows for a fact that those three are the ones who makes sure that they get anywhere.
You realize we are not in disagreement about anything at all
This is why in interviews, Dendi never comes off as a guy that believes he is better than his team
I think the Flash comparison is completely off. Hell, the fact that Chinese teams are boring, but slow, patient, and methodical means that they are much more comparable to Flash than any Western teams.
Na'vi is my new favorite team. They are the only team who can stand against the chinese teams, and they are extremely likeable. I mean HOW can you dislike Na'vi?
He asked you WHO you would take over dendi twice.. and u still haven't answered his question. Saying "there are many I would take" isn't giving an answer, name some players of better caliber in the mid lane...
While some of the fanboyism can be a bit egregious (like when the commentators didn't notice that he blink daggered to base then totally whiffed a stolen ravage) he's still a great player and tends to play heroes that are fun to watch, so people like him.
EPT
