Recently, I was surfing the TV when I chanced upon a curious show. It was in the game show format but it was specific on a certain subject. I later found out that it was the recently launched THE AMERICAN BIBLE CHALLENGE by GSNTV.
The tournament starts with 18 three-person teams—three teams in each of the first six episodes. The winning teams from each of those six episodes will advance to play in two semi-final games. During the final round, one team will be named champions of THE AMERICAN BIBLE CHALLENGE. The winners will choose a charity to donate their winnings to.
I'm not particularly religious, in fact I can't remember the last time I read the bible and went to church. But I found the show weird and fun at the same time. I mean, how many Americans read the bible at all or know about bible stuff? And I don't exactly what was the motivation behind the show from a marketing perspective? Did they have a well-grounded research that a bible show will be something that the fans will go crazy about? And the GSNTV is not a religious group, so I doubt there are religious motivations behind this show, like needing to educate and moralize American. Here's a link to their site http://gsntv.com/shows/the-american-bible-challenge/.
While it'd be nice if Gameplay was more than just trivia, but rather important knoledge type questions 'cite the three main passages that explain LOVE/the Gospel/ forgiveness. Its also nice to have game-shows where giving and blessing other people, rather than selfish greed, are the motivators and values touted.
Overall though, sounds fun, and seems like a healthy and generally plesant premise. I'm sure it'd go down well with a good swath of US demographics. My only concern is it could devolve into just-another-secular-trivia-show, while there's so much opportunity for outreach and providing a modern and relavent presentation of Christianity, through a pretty darn modern medium (:
Well, a show game about Bible is not chocking to me.
I mean, i'm athee and anticlerical, but having a good knowledge of history, geography, bible or about the reproduction of the Tsetse fly in dry subtropical environment is basicaly the same thing.
I don't see why a game show about bible would be that different from another one on another topic. It's just a book.
Yeah I agree that it's just a show to entertain, but I would just find it pretty hilarious if they donated the winnings to an atheist charity like EARTHWARD or Fellowship of Freethought. It would just be kind of a huge slap in that face for the shows target audience
The bible is still the most influential piece of western literature, I would expect a game show like this could be very entertaining to some people. And the charity prize system is such a generous idea, I really can't think of a better way to begin "gamifying" literature for Americans on television. If the show was for me, it would be about another book - but I'm glad this show is on a topic that the most people might find relevant.
Edit: Perhaps I should still have mentioned that I won't be watching, as television is garbage and I've already had enough "entertainment" from the bible. Despite this, it might be helpful for some people to understand what goes on in the book if they hold it in such high esteem.
It's entertainment, so I guess anyone is willing to watch it if they are bored or simply want to learn more about the Bible. It seems like a good idea to me, regardless of religious beliefs, I think it's important to at least know a decent amount about the Bible because of how important it is in Western society.
I'm glad to see the Bible quizzing scene is getting into the mainstream a little bit more. I had a friend in college who was a Bible quizzing competitor and was always going to competitions on the weekends.
On August 28 2012 01:36 NotTheMonker wrote: I'm glad to see the Bible quizzing scene is getting into the mainstream a little bit more. I had a friend in college who was a Bible quizzing competitor and was always going to competitions on the weekends.
yah for too long has bible quizzing been overshadowed by competitive Jesus impersonating, it's overdue for a spot in the limelight imo.
On August 28 2012 01:36 NotTheMonker wrote: I'm glad to see the Bible quizzing scene is getting into the mainstream a little bit more. I had a friend in college who was a Bible quizzing competitor and was always going to competitions on the weekends.
yah for too long has bible quizzing been overshadowed by competitive Jesus impersonating, it's overdue for a spot in the limelight imo.
lol no, a whole industrie is build around professional and competitive Jesus impersonating, while bible quizzing is for noobs who are not able to bear the pain when a pair of nails is hammerd into you hand
On August 28 2012 01:36 NotTheMonker wrote: I'm glad to see the Bible quizzing scene is getting into the mainstream a little bit more. I had a friend in college who was a Bible quizzing competitor and was always going to competitions on the weekends.
yah for too long has bible quizzing been overshadowed by competitive Jesus impersonating, it's overdue for a spot in the limelight imo.
lol no, a whole industrie is build around professional and competitive Jesus impersonating, while bible quizzing is for noobs who are not able to bear the pain when a pair of nails is hammerd into you hand
Just wait till American Idol Choir Version takes off.
as an ex-christian its pretty clear that the vast majority of christians never read the bible, and those that do, become ex christians, so it'd be nice to compete against the nubs in the church.
On August 28 2012 01:29 ANoise wrote: The bible is still the most influential piece of western literature, I would expect a game show like this could be very entertaining to some people. And the charity prize system is such a generous idea, I really can't think of a better way to begin "gamifying" literature for Americans on television. If the show was for me, it would be about another book - but I'm glad this show is on a topic that the most people might find relevant.
bible isn't exclusively western don't forget most of the old testament are books lifted from the Hebrew bible which would put it as middle eastern.
I do find it interesting what bible would it be, although it's easy to assume it's King James version of the christian bible, as it is the most popular in the US of bibles.
Either way as an atheist and a person who doesn't watch game shows outside of jeopardy i doubt i'd watch this.
I don't think they really thought of anything while making this show other than "let's see how many people will watch" and I doubt I'd watch it. As a theologian I would only slam my head against the wall for the entire show.
On August 28 2012 01:54 fishjie wrote: i'd love to go battle it out against christians
as an ex-christian its pretty clear that the vast majority of christians never read the bible, and those that do, become ex christians, so it'd be nice to compete against the nubs in the church.
That's entirely untrue. I can say that for myself and many people around me!
On August 28 2012 01:54 fishjie wrote: i'd love to go battle it out against christians
as an ex-christian its pretty clear that the vast majority of christians never read the bible, and those that do, become ex christians, so it'd be nice to compete against the nubs in the church.
That's entirely untrue. I can say that for myself and many people around me!
uh oh this thread will end well. (: id say i am pretty good at biblical knowledge. i wonder if they will include the catholic chapters or if its just protestant.
On August 28 2012 02:23 WniO wrote: uh oh this thread will end well. (: id say i am pretty good at biblical knowledge. i wonder if they will include the catholic chapters or if its just protestant.
On August 28 2012 02:23 WniO wrote: uh oh this thread will end well. (: id say i am pretty good at biblical knowledge. i wonder if they will include the catholic chapters or if its just protestant.
i wonder what sort of questions they'd ask? given how different interpretations of the bible have led to wars before, how will they interpret the bible on their show?
On August 28 2012 02:23 WniO wrote: uh oh this thread will end well. (: id say i am pretty good at biblical knowledge. i wonder if they will include the catholic chapters or if its just protestant.
Wait what? They have separate chapters?
The catholic bible has 7 books that the protestant bible doesn't on the old testament
On August 28 2012 02:23 WniO wrote: uh oh this thread will end well. (: id say i am pretty good at biblical knowledge. i wonder if they will include the catholic chapters or if its just protestant.
i wonder what sort of questions they'd ask? given how different interpretations of the bible have led to wars before, how will they interpret the bible on their show?
My guess would be they'd steer away from any actual interpretation at all, and stick to just asking trivia about trivial things. Like "which sea did Moses part?" or "name all the sons of Abraham". If they include theology at all it'll be in questions like "Which of the following denominations does not subscribe to the theory of evolution?" Of course it would be very easy to 'rig' the questions of a show like this to support some kind of agenda, both liberal or conservative. But assuming the people doing this aren't trying to do that, I'd wager they'll stay clear of anything controversial so that the show can appeal to anyone with some interest in the Bible, regardless of their personal views on it.
On August 28 2012 02:23 WniO wrote: uh oh this thread will end well. (: id say i am pretty good at biblical knowledge. i wonder if they will include the catholic chapters or if its just protestant.
i wonder what sort of questions they'd ask? given how different interpretations of the bible have led to wars before, how will they interpret the bible on their show?
My guess would be they'd steer away from any actual interpretation at all, and stick to just asking trivia about trivial things. Like "which sea did Moses part?" or "name all the sons of Abraham". If they include theology at all it'll be in questions like "Which of the following denominations does not subscribe to the theory of evolution?" Of course it would be very easy to 'rig' the questions of a show like this to support some kind of agenda, both liberal or conservative. But assuming the people doing this aren't trying to do that, I'd wager they'll stay clear of anything controversial so that the show can appeal to anyone with some interest in the Bible, regardless of their personal views on it.
One thing that would tickle me to no end would be if a self-avowed atheist (or god forbid, a Muslim--likely since the Quran draws extensively on the Bible for info) won the show in front of a conservative christian audience.
On August 28 2012 01:54 fishjie wrote: i'd love to go battle it out against christians
as an ex-christian its pretty clear that the vast majority of christians never read the bible, and those that do, become ex christians, so it'd be nice to compete against the nubs in the church.
Dissecting that last sentence "as an ex-christian its pretty clear that the vast majority of christians never read the bible." Curious, what authority does being an "ex-christian" give you in determining whether all Christians read the bible? Many people become Christians only after reading the bible. Most of the Christians in the world don't even speak your language. Can you really speak for them?
And then "those that do, become ex christians." What? Would Christianity really be one of the most popular religions in the world if everyone who read their book ceased being a Christian?
Well, I'm a Christian (Catholic) and I would like to see more games that don't challenge a Christian conscience so much, or say, are more compatible with Christian morality and sensibilities... and to find a game actually grounded in Christian values would be cool. Except you can't really make an arcade game titled Adventures of Moses: From the Land of Egypt. It won't work like that. You're pretty much limited to quizzes for knowledge or solving morality case studies but the latter could be icky and send the wrong vibes. For me, I guess I'd like more sensitivity to some things in games. For starters, if you didn't have to kill non-combatants like SCVs in RTS games.
On August 28 2012 01:54 fishjie wrote: i'd love to go battle it out against christians
as an ex-christian its pretty clear that the vast majority of christians never read the bible, and those that do, become ex christians, so it'd be nice to compete against the nubs in the church.
Dissecting that last sentence "as an ex-christian its pretty clear that the vast majority of christians never read the bible." Curious, what authority does being an "ex-christian" give you in determining whether all Christians read the bible? Many people become Christians only after reading the bible. Most of the Christians in the world don't even speak your language. Can you really speak for them?
And then "those that do, become ex christians." What? Would Christianity really be one of the most popular religions in the world if everyone who read their book ceased being a Christian?
well, its really simple. having gone to multiple churches in my life, it was obvious that the vast majority of christians i talked to had never read the bible. they even admitted to it! their knowledge was limited to what they heard the preacher read on sunday. then there are the christians you hear and read about on the news who complain about the gruesome violence and sex on tv or literature. its painfully obvious they've never read the old testemant, which should be rated NC-17 for the incest, rape, genocide, and depravity it describes. then there are the christians you hear and read about on the news complaining about gay marriage and whining that marriage has been REDEFINED! also painfully obvious they've never read the old testemant where marriage was defined as polygamy. king david, the hero of the bible, had tons of concubines. solomon, the wisest guy in history, had even more. again, painfully obvious christians have never even bothered to read their own shit.
most people become christians because their parents were christians, not because they read the bible. the religion of your parents is a far more predictive indicator of what your own religion will be.
as for your last sentence, the reason christianity is one of the most popular religions in the world is specifically because the vast majority of the believers have never read it (that and because rome adopted it, followed up by a successful campaign of persecution of enemy religions in the middle ages and up to present day). duh? i mean would scientology be one of the most popular religions in the world is people actually knew the idiotic crap that scientologists believed? exaaaaaaaaactly. same deal.
On August 28 2012 03:08 fishjie wrote: most people become christians because their parents were christians, not because they read the bible. the religion of your parents is a far more predictive indicator of what your own religion will be.
as for your last sentence, the reason christianity is one of the most popular religions in the world is specifically because the vast majority of the believers have never read it (that and because rome adopted it, followed up by a successful campaign of persecution of enemy religions in the middle ages and up to present day). duh? i mean would scientology be one of the most popular religions in the world is people actually knew the idiotic crap that scientologists believed? exaaaaaaaaactly. same deal.
You hit the nail on the head sir.
Most people are christians because their parents are. Currently over here, islam gets a lot of flac because some people have put the quran under scrutiny. Guess what? It is the same crap in any religious book pretty much.
Time to leave all this behind us and define moral and codes of conduct without having to refer to fairy tales written 3k years ago?
edit: actually, there is only one god ... and his name is Flash.
It saddens me to say this as an American and a scientist.....but this is a game show Americans can actually play. General knowledge game shows just devolved into some of the most brainless trivia questions anyway.
bible trivia is not brainless, it is a deep and rich book that has much cultural, religious, and historical significance.
it would also make for entertaining TV. if they went with some of the more awesome passages...
summoning she bears to maul kids to death, a judge sacrificing daughter as a sacrifice to YHWH, stabbing a fat dude so hard in the stomach that it gets enveloped within the fat and then the dude shits himself, a concubine getting gang raped to death causing the husband to dismember the corpse in anger and send it to all the tribes in israel asking for vengeance (they slaughter the tribe of benjamin, but after feeling guilty, let them repopulate by having them just abduct various women on the way to a festival), and various other slaughter and wanton destruction and genocide, all would be great.
However, being well read in the Bible is an admirable trait. Though it is not as prevalent as I wish, someday, we will see Old Testament gods and figures like King David will appear in video games like Zeus does. The Fate series did an interesting take on Biblical figures like they did with every other mythical character.
Should I have kids one day, I will teach them about the Bible the same way I will about the Iliad. This is not 100 percent bad news.
On August 28 2012 03:39 Shiragaku wrote: However, being well read in the Bible is an admirable trait. Though it is not as prevalent as I wish, someday, we will see Old Testament gods and figures like King David will appear in video games like Zeus does. The Fate series did an interesting take on Biblical figures like they did with every other mythical character.
Should I have kids one day, I will teach them about the Bible the same way I will about the Iliad. This is not 100 percent bad news.
except for the kids. if summer reading = bible, there will be no one that actually does it
Trivia does nothing for learning. It allows you to spout off random facts. Understanding the reason behind those facts leads to enlightenment (whatever the subject may be). This may work out fine as a trivia tv show, but don't expect it to help you know more about the bible or the people that follow it.
On August 28 2012 01:54 fishjie wrote: i'd love to go battle it out against christians
as an ex-christian its pretty clear that the vast majority of christians never read the bible, and those that do, become ex christians, so it'd be nice to compete against the nubs in the church.
Dissecting that last sentence "as an ex-christian its pretty clear that the vast majority of christians never read the bible." Curious, what authority does being an "ex-christian" give you in determining whether all Christians read the bible? Many people become Christians only after reading the bible. Most of the Christians in the world don't even speak your language. Can you really speak for them?
And then "those that do, become ex christians." What? Would Christianity really be one of the most popular religions in the world if everyone who read their book ceased being a Christian?
well, its really simple. having gone to multiple churches in my life, it was obvious that the vast majority of christians i talked to had never read the bible. they even admitted to it! their knowledge was limited to what they heard the preacher read on sunday. then there are the christians you hear and read about on the news who complain about the gruesome violence and sex on tv or literature. its painfully obvious they've never read the old testemant, which should be rated NC-17 for the incest, rape, genocide, and depravity it describes. then there are the christians you hear and read about on the news complaining about gay marriage and whining that marriage has been REDEFINED! also painfully obvious they've never read the old testemant where marriage was defined as polygamy. king david, the hero of the bible, had tons of concubines. solomon, the wisest guy in history, had even more. again, painfully obvious christians have never even bothered to read their own shit.
most people become christians because their parents were christians, not because they read the bible. the religion of your parents is a far more predictive indicator of what your own religion will be.
as for your last sentence, the reason christianity is one of the most popular religions in the world is specifically because the vast majority of the believers have never read it (that and because rome adopted it, followed up by a successful campaign of persecution of enemy religions in the middle ages and up to present day). duh? i mean would scientology be one of the most popular religions in the world is people actually knew the idiotic crap that scientologists believed? exaaaaaaaaactly. same deal.
The better thing to have said then is that "the vast majority of Christians I talked to have not read parts of the bible," if that's what you meant. That's different than "the vast majority of Christians have never read the bible."
On August 28 2012 01:54 fishjie wrote: i'd love to go battle it out against christians
as an ex-christian its pretty clear that the vast majority of christians never read the bible, and those that do, become ex christians, so it'd be nice to compete against the nubs in the church.
Dissecting that last sentence "as an ex-christian its pretty clear that the vast majority of christians never read the bible." Curious, what authority does being an "ex-christian" give you in determining whether all Christians read the bible? Many people become Christians only after reading the bible. Most of the Christians in the world don't even speak your language. Can you really speak for them?
And then "those that do, become ex christians." What? Would Christianity really be one of the most popular religions in the world if everyone who read their book ceased being a Christian?
well, its really simple. having gone to multiple churches in my life, it was obvious that the vast majority of christians i talked to had never read the bible. they even admitted to it! their knowledge was limited to what they heard the preacher read on sunday. then there are the christians you hear and read about on the news who complain about the gruesome violence and sex on tv or literature. its painfully obvious they've never read the old testemant, which should be rated NC-17 for the incest, rape, genocide, and depravity it describes. then there are the christians you hear and read about on the news complaining about gay marriage and whining that marriage has been REDEFINED! also painfully obvious they've never read the old testemant where marriage was defined as polygamy. king david, the hero of the bible, had tons of concubines. solomon, the wisest guy in history, had even more. again, painfully obvious christians have never even bothered to read their own shit.
most people become christians because their parents were christians, not because they read the bible. the religion of your parents is a far more predictive indicator of what your own religion will be.
as for your last sentence, the reason christianity is one of the most popular religions in the world is specifically because the vast majority of the believers have never read it (that and because rome adopted it, followed up by a successful campaign of persecution of enemy religions in the middle ages and up to present day). duh? i mean would scientology be one of the most popular religions in the world is people actually knew the idiotic crap that scientologists believed? exaaaaaaaaactly. same deal.
The better thing to have said then is that "the vast majority of Christians I talked to have not read parts of the bible," if that's what you meant. That's different than "the vast majority of Christians have never read the bible."
It would be nice if just this once Teamliquid could have a thread mildly related to religion, not devolve into a religious debate. Keep that shit in r/atheism or pm's ok?
I think if done well this show could be interesting and fun to watch. And they definitely should invite non-Christians like Atheists or Muslims or Buddhists on as well. Would be awesome if they managed to do a celebrity episode too.
eh, this sounds like one of the "fun" activities at Christian fellowship. I mean, it's cool that it makes it more... accessible by people who spend a lot of time on the couch, but I can't really see it being popular.
On August 28 2012 04:37 nadafanboy42 wrote: I think if done well this show could be interesting and fun to watch. And they definitely should invite non-Christians like Atheists or Muslims or Buddhists on as well. Would be awesome if they managed to do a celebrity episode too.
yeah, that would be really interesting. I think every American should at least take a crack at reading the Bible, given how important it is to their country. note that you don't have to agree with it, but at least so you have an idea of what you disagree with.
On August 28 2012 01:54 fishjie wrote: i'd love to go battle it out against christians
as an ex-christian its pretty clear that the vast majority of christians never read the bible, and those that do, become ex christians, so it'd be nice to compete against the nubs in the church.
Dissecting that last sentence "as an ex-christian its pretty clear that the vast majority of christians never read the bible." Curious, what authority does being an "ex-christian" give you in determining whether all Christians read the bible? Many people become Christians only after reading the bible. Most of the Christians in the world don't even speak your language. Can you really speak for them?
And then "those that do, become ex christians." What? Would Christianity really be one of the most popular religions in the world if everyone who read their book ceased being a Christian?
well, its really simple. having gone to multiple churches in my life, it was obvious that the vast majority of christians i talked to had never read the bible. they even admitted to it! their knowledge was limited to what they heard the preacher read on sunday. then there are the christians you hear and read about on the news who complain about the gruesome violence and sex on tv or literature. its painfully obvious they've never read the old testemant, which should be rated NC-17 for the incest, rape, genocide, and depravity it describes. then there are the christians you hear and read about on the news complaining about gay marriage and whining that marriage has been REDEFINED! also painfully obvious they've never read the old testemant where marriage was defined as polygamy. king david, the hero of the bible, had tons of concubines. solomon, the wisest guy in history, had even more. again, painfully obvious christians have never even bothered to read their own shit.
most people become christians because their parents were christians, not because they read the bible. the religion of your parents is a far more predictive indicator of what your own religion will be.
as for your last sentence, the reason christianity is one of the most popular religions in the world is specifically because the vast majority of the believers have never read it (that and because rome adopted it, followed up by a successful campaign of persecution of enemy religions in the middle ages and up to present day). duh? i mean would scientology be one of the most popular religions in the world is people actually knew the idiotic crap that scientologists believed? exaaaaaaaaactly. same deal.
The better thing to have said then is that "the vast majority of Christians I talked to have not read parts of the bible," if that's what you meant. That's different than "the vast majority of Christians have never read the bible."
no the vast majority of christians have never read the bible, as i clearly pointed out with the examples of the outrage over "redefining marriage" and complaining about movies/books with over the top violence and sex. oh and might as well throw in example of all the people in the bible belt who seem to hate liberals and any type of welfare program to help the poor, apparently they never read acts where all the believers pooled their resources together and shared everything, and of course jesus himself was a homeless person (even saying "Foxes have holes and birds of the air have nests, but the Son of Man has no place to lay his head") who hung out with other homeless people as well as prostitutes and other dregs of society.
While we are zealously performing the duties of good citizens and soldiers, we certainly ought not to be inattentive to the higher duties of religion. To the distinguished character of Patriot, it should be our highest glory to add the more distinguished character of Christian.
George Washington, first pres, founding father
God who gave us life gave us liberty. And can the liberties of a nation be thought secure when we have removed their only firm basis, a conviction in the minds of the people that these liberties are of the Gift of God? That they are not to be violated but with His wrath? Indeed, I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just; that His justice cannot sleep forever; That a revolution of the wheel of fortune, a change of situation, is among possible events; that it may become probable by Supernatural influence! The Almighty has no attribute which can take side with us in that event.
Thomas Jefferson, 3rd pres, author of the Declaration of Independence, founding father
The country has a rich Christian heritage. The individual practices of these men are not perfect; neither are Christians. George Washington knew that being Christ-like was a more noble calling than a Patriot fighting for his country. Thomas Jefferson knew that liberties written out to be protected in the Constitution had a divine source. So that's a little historical glimpse in the American aside.
Not too many Americans read the Bible often or take it as a meaningful book on their lives. In that respect, this show will more likely be a trivia game for the watchers.
Heck, it is the world #1 bestseller after all for quite some years Even a secular book might have a small following with that distinction
While we are zealously performing the duties of good citizens and soldiers, we certainly ought not to be inattentive to the higher duties of religion. To the distinguished character of Patriot, it should be our highest glory to add the more distinguished character of Christian.
God who gave us life gave us liberty. And can the liberties of a nation be thought secure when we have removed their only firm basis, a conviction in the minds of the people that these liberties are of the Gift of God? That they are not to be violated but with His wrath? Indeed, I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just; that His justice cannot sleep forever; That a revolution of the wheel of fortune, a change of situation, is among possible events; that it may become probable by Supernatural influence! The Almighty has no attribute which can take side with us in that event.
Thomas Jefferson, 3rd pres, author of the Declaration of Independence, founding father
The country has a rich Christian heritage. The individual practices of these men are not perfect; neither are Christians. George Washington knew that being Christ-like was a more noble calling than a Patriot fighting for his country. Thomas Jefferson knew that liberties written out to be protected in the Constitution had a divine source. So that's a little historical glimpse in the American aside.
Not too many Americans read the Bible often or take it as a meaningful book on their lives. In that respect, this show will more likely be a trivia game for the watchers.
Heck, it is the world #1 bestseller after all for quite some years Even a secular book might have a small following with that distinction
I've never understood the argument of America being a Christian nation in anything but its demographic.
Is going to prison for murder really indicative of being a Christian nation? I've never really seen anything about America that strikes me as distinctly Christian. I can't name one law that can reasonably be argued as being derived from the Bible.
The people are undoubtedly Christian, but the country is surprisingly devoid of Christian influences.
While we are zealously performing the duties of good citizens and soldiers, we certainly ought not to be inattentive to the higher duties of religion. To the distinguished character of Patriot, it should be our highest glory to add the more distinguished character of Christian.
George Washington, first pres, founding father
God who gave us life gave us liberty. And can the liberties of a nation be thought secure when we have removed their only firm basis, a conviction in the minds of the people that these liberties are of the Gift of God? That they are not to be violated but with His wrath? Indeed, I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just; that His justice cannot sleep forever; That a revolution of the wheel of fortune, a change of situation, is among possible events; that it may become probable by Supernatural influence! The Almighty has no attribute which can take side with us in that event.
Thomas Jefferson, 3rd pres, author of the Declaration of Independence, founding father
The country has a rich Christian heritage. The individual practices of these men are not perfect; neither are Christians. George Washington knew that being Christ-like was a more noble calling than a Patriot fighting for his country. Thomas Jefferson knew that liberties written out to be protected in the Constitution had a divine source. So that's a little historical glimpse in the American aside.
Not too many Americans read the Bible often or take it as a meaningful book on their lives. In that respect, this show will more likely be a trivia game for the watchers.
Heck, it is the world #1 bestseller after all for quite some years Even a secular book might have a small following with that distinction
I've never understood the argument of America being a Christian nation in anything but its demographic.
Is going to prison for murder really indicative of being a Christian nation? I've never really seen anything about America that strikes me as distinctly Christian. I can't name one law that can reasonably be argued as being derived from the Bible.
The people are undoubtedly Christian, but the country is surprisingly devoid of Christian influences.
It's pretty clear you didn't read my final 2 sections. Let me repeat because it directly addresses what you has issue with (Christian nation)
The country has a rich Christian heritage. The individual practices of these men are not perfect; neither are Christians. George Washington knew that being Christ-like was a more noble calling than a Patriot fighting for his country. Thomas Jefferson knew that liberties written out to be protected in the Constitution had a divine source. So that's a little historical glimpse in the American aside.
Not too many Americans read the Bible often or take it as a meaningful book on their lives. In that respect, this show will more likely be a trivia game for the watchers.
A rich history of founding on Biblical principles, a current secular society.
The ways the founding fathers did and did not base their laws on the Bible and other sources is beyond the scope of a discussion on the TV show. The text of the Declaration of Independence, and quotes by the writers of the Constitution would be a starting point in your search of this.
It's just people trying out a new idea and putting a new twist to the typical game show concept. I think it'd be rather entertaining and even though I don't go to church and I barely read the bible, I might watch an episode in my free time.
people still believe the founding fathers were christians? that latest book the jefferson lies by that one evangelical wackjob has been badly debunked. founding fathers were not christians the country is not founded on christianity. ever heard of the jefferson bible? jefferson made his own version of the bible that basically stripped out all the superstitious mythology as well as the barbaric passages, and was left with a tiny portion of the original bible. or george washingtons quote in the treaty of tripoli:
"As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion"
again, pretty obvious most christians have not read the bible nor have they studied american history. then again, america has had a history of genocide and slavery, so in that way it is based on biblical principles.
On August 28 2012 06:53 Danglars wrote: A rich history of founding on Biblical principles, a current secular society.
The ways the founding fathers did and did not base their laws on the Bible and other sources is beyond the scope of a discussion on the TV show. The text of the Declaration of Independence, and quotes by the writers of the Constitution would be a starting point in your search of this.
Including the thought that America is not a Christian nation, but rather a Judeo-Christian nation. The Liberty Bell's (the artifact that was rung after the reading of the Declaration of Independence) inscription is not a verse from the Christian gospels, but rather from the Torah. The American 1st Amendment to our constitution, guarenteed freedom of religion, is not a Christian value. Christians want others to also be Christian, but the same is not for Jews. The mode of thought that everyone should be able to worship what they want without disturbance from others of different religions is a very Judaic one.
On August 28 2012 06:34 zalz wrote: I've never understood the argument of America being a Christian nation in anything but its demographic.
well, that's kind of the point. does it really matter whether the laws are based on the Bible? America is made up of people, and quite a lot of them are Christian, so the religion has an important influence on the country, whether or not the founding fathers intended it. it's the whole reason we ended up with things like "in God we trust" and "one nation, under God" and why almost all the presidents are Christian (at least in name).
Instead of getting all irate because there are Christians in the world, and you have issues with that, so in your anxiety you can't deal with it without shitting on them on some online forum....For God's sake talk about the actual game show !
On August 28 2012 08:52 Polar_Nada wrote: I really like how the winner gives the money to a charity. This is an awesome way of helping society!
WHY IS NO ONE MENTIONING THIS!? This is HUGE. It completely re-defines the 'Game Show' metagame, because instead of winning the tourney to get the prize money, and blow it on selfish stuff like some gear, party, or a trip, every prize you win goes to small struggling charities!
You see the stupid ammounts of money thrown around on these shows, and how depraved and desperate people get to selfishly win (selfish as in 'for me, only'), o hai Survivor. You see how trashy those are? It preaches the values of greed, backstabbing, selfishness, [being a slag] and 'doing whatever it takes' just to gratify oneself's lust for money. But without that greed complex motivating things, the values the show teaches are completely different. Generosity and philanthropy.
Don't be blind. Like it or not, this is a Christian show, and the 'for-charity' basis has a lot to do with that. Say what you will, but think about that.
Celebrity invites on stuff like 'Who Wants to be a Millionare', where the winnings are auto-given to charity, are a small minority of the funds in the game-show market. This show, ALL the funds go. Not the same thing, and my point is, not the same focus.
On August 28 2012 17:55 Silidons wrote: are they going to leave out all the bad parts of the bible like they do in church or are they actually going to test peoples knowledge?
real question
Probably not. The first thing that I found puzzling was that a bible trivia show is weird because there's a lot of trivia in the bible that people don't /want/ to know. But it's just a casual family show for charity.
On August 28 2012 01:54 fishjie wrote: i'd love to go battle it out against christians
as an ex-christian its pretty clear that the vast majority of christians never read the bible, and those that do, become ex christians, so it'd be nice to compete against the nubs in the church.
Dissecting that last sentence "as an ex-christian its pretty clear that the vast majority of christians never read the bible." Curious, what authority does being an "ex-christian" give you in determining whether all Christians read the bible? Many people become Christians only after reading the bible. Most of the Christians in the world don't even speak your language. Can you really speak for them?
And then "those that do, become ex christians." What? Would Christianity really be one of the most popular religions in the world if everyone who read their book ceased being a Christian?
well, its really simple. having gone to multiple churches in my life, it was obvious that the vast majority of christians i talked to had never read the bible. they even admitted to it! their knowledge was limited to what they heard the preacher read on sunday. then there are the christians you hear and read about on the news who complain about the gruesome violence and sex on tv or literature. its painfully obvious they've never read the old testemant, which should be rated NC-17 for the incest, rape, genocide, and depravity it describes. then there are the christians you hear and read about on the news complaining about gay marriage and whining that marriage has been REDEFINED! also painfully obvious they've never read the old testemant where marriage was defined as polygamy. king david, the hero of the bible, had tons of concubines. solomon, the wisest guy in history, had even more. again, painfully obvious christians have never even bothered to read their own shit.
most people become christians because their parents were christians, not because they read the bible. the religion of your parents is a far more predictive indicator of what your own religion will be.
as for your last sentence, the reason christianity is one of the most popular religions in the world is specifically because the vast majority of the believers have never read it (that and because rome adopted it, followed up by a successful campaign of persecution of enemy religions in the middle ages and up to present day). duh? i mean would scientology be one of the most popular religions in the world is people actually knew the idiotic crap that scientologists believed? exaaaaaaaaactly. same deal.
The better thing to have said then is that "the vast majority of Christians I talked to have not read parts of the bible," if that's what you meant. That's different than "the vast majority of Christians have never read the bible."
It would be nice if just this once Teamliquid could have a thread mildly related to religion, not devolve into a religious debate. Keep that shit in r/atheism or pm's ok?
I think if done well this show could be interesting and fun to watch. And they definitely should invite non-Christians like Atheists or Muslims or Buddhists on as well. Would be awesome if they managed to do a celebrity episode too.
the problem in my opinion is religion is one of the big things, that is wrong with the world today. regardless of which religion. I mean, I don't care what you believe, or to which supernatural being or deity you pray and believe in, as long as you do it on in your home or church or whatever.
BUT FOR THE UNIVERSE'S SAKE (see what I did there?^^), please don't expose children to your "faith". Don't brainwash and scare kids into believing that stuff. They should be able to decide whether to believe or not and what when they are 18+
Kids watch this stuff and might actually join in your loss of reality. If this shows airs past 11pm, I don't care. As long a kids get brainwashed and indoctrinated, I will fight this shit with whatever energy I have left.
On August 28 2012 17:55 Silidons wrote: are they going to leave out all the bad parts of the bible like they do in church or are they actually going to test peoples knowledge?
real question
Probably not. The first thing that I found puzzling was that a bible trivia show is weird because there's a lot of trivia in the bible that people don't /want/ to know. But it's just a casual family show for charity.
It would be one heckuva show if they did include all the subtle trivias in the bible. Haman, the antagonist in the book of Esther, being a descendant of Agag, an Amalekite King that Saul fails to kill, for example.
On August 28 2012 17:55 Silidons wrote: are they going to leave out all the bad parts of the bible like they do in church or are they actually going to test peoples knowledge?
real question
Just a note churches offer "read the entire bible in a year" studies. I have been to one. Read it two more times. This bad stuff, people take it out of context and/or forget that history has much of the same.
I don't think they will say "what happened to Jacob's daughter? What did his sons do about this? What was the fate of the amalekites supposed to be?". Because answers would be rape genocide total ahnilation down to the animals. Worse, what was amalekites daily practice? Or other canaanite practice? As this would educate people about evils they don't even want to know about and wouldn't want to practice.
So they will probably only mention Assyria to say "where did Jonah go, and why did God make him angry there?"
Really, there is some very messed up stuff in the Bible. Just wanted to clarify that that does not make it false... Or make churches never mention it. Yes some won't ever but then some just won't shut up about fire and brimstone...
Meh. If you want to slay me I suck at debate so yes Christianity is ... Therefore according to it I am to be pitied.
lol @people even pondering that the show might include the bible's racy parts. For those outside the US, this show is hosted by Jeff Foxworthy, who is a MASSIVELY successful comedian from the south. His schtick is basically "I'm proud to be a redneck"/"look at all these crazy things us rednecks do." This show is for midwestern and southern evangelical christians. It's not even close to some super serious religious studies program. One of the bits on the show is "The word of the Lord or The Lord of the Rings" in which they read some text and the person has to guess whether it's from the bible or The Lord of the Rings. It's just gonna be silly little stuff like that, and then they get a human interest story to feel good about at the end about what charity the money went to. Not gonna be very interesting for non-Christians in my opinion.
On August 28 2012 17:55 Silidons wrote: are they going to leave out all the bad parts of the bible like they do in church or are they actually going to test peoples knowledge?
real question
Just a note churches offer "read the entire bible in a year" studies. I have been to one. Read it two more times. This bad stuff, people take it out of context and/or forget that history has much of the same.
they selectively take certain parts out of context, only the "good" parts are in context it seems...
but seeing as how this show is hosted by jeff foxworthy, who also hosted "are you smarter than a fifth grader", i think we can all see where this is going
BUT FOR THE UNIVERSE'S SAKE (see what I did there?^^), please don't expose children to your "faith". Don't brainwash and scare kids into believing that stuff. They should be able to decide whether to believe or not and what when they are 18+
Kids watch this stuff and might actually join in your loss of reality. If this shows airs past 11pm, I don't care. As long a kids get brainwashed and indoctrinated, I will fight this shit with whatever energy I have left.
When you believe something is right, and you live accordingly to that, it will show. Obvious. The problem is that no matter what opinion you hold, when you live in that and present that, people will have to interact with that opinion. Take the very topical example of "its ok to do absolutely everything, stupid, yucky, nasty stuff to get money."
We have a scumbag society, that says its neutral, its free, liberal, non-defining, and lets you think whatever you want to think. Its a scumbag society because that isn't actually the case. Lots of people are brought up with lots of TV. TV is not an evil thing in itself, I'm just using it as an example of a prominent source of popular media.
"The TV doesn't teach me what to believe and value, its just there for my entertainment". Nope. Its setting examples for moral values and expectations all over the place; game shows are quite guilty for the above one (even down to silly ones like Fear Factor). TV packages these messages as 'something you want' 'something you need' and 'something that is right and worth watching more of'. When kids are left in front of the TV, THEY ARE "brainwashed and indoctrinated" to accept those values, because the TV teaches them that they are OK. Except you seem to not want to acknowledge it, because the values the TV sprouts are likely also largely your own. They're so 'normal' people don't notice that they are being conformed to believing them.
Our generation had it much more than the last, and I'm quite concerned about the next generation, cause now they haven't only got the TV to rot their brains be their nannys, but they've got all sorts of shit THE INTERNET can offer. They are too young to discern what is good, right, worth seeking, and what is wrong, disgusting, damaging and potentially scarring. That is precisely why you have parents and parental guidance, because its the parent's responsibility to raise and guide their kids, to teach them how to tell between those two, to help them grow into wise, discerning adults.
There's no way you could keep a kid off the internet till he's 18+, and I believe the internet has lots of stuff that is so horrid NO ONE should see it. The kid's got to learn how to think for themselves, and to recognize when something is seriously wrong and screwed up, and that they should change the channel to not mess themselves up. But with more and more absent parents (TV = nanny) that sort of intensive parenting, and "leading/teaching them to walk in the ways of righteousness" is plummeting. The popular media, with TV as its historic main outlet (but now internet more and more) does the job of parenting instead. IT teaches them what is a good value, and what is wrong.
OK, there have been lots of 'Christians' with a track record of being too overbearing, and teaching/enforcing rules (legalism) rather than really growing people and developping them (relationship [with God]). You're scarred by that; it’s also a pretty big stereotype, but my experience in the US, sadly it is still a notable reality.
What I'm trying to demonstrate is that regardless, ([y]our) kids will be taught by someone. Don't be deluded, [y]our kids will be "brainwashed and indoctrinated" i.e. raised. Someone or something will teach them what to value, what to seek, what it is that gives satisfaction. The TV already does that indoctrination (into today’s culture) to lots of kids. What I'm saying is I refuse to leave it up to [insert moral authority, e.g. for me ‘Pop culture’] to teach my kids what's right and wrong, I won't let it pump my kids full of the crap it worships. This may sound like I’m on the precisely opposite, but parallel, side of the dichotomy. Scumbag you sound like the sort of person who would blanket insert a vague and ill-defined ‘religion’ into that space.
Hypothetically in the future when I must choose a TV show to watch with the kids, I will at least make sure to put on something that doesn’t shove misguided, foolish values down our throats. The point is, discern the values that it promotes and teaches, be it secular or not. You wouldn’t want a kids cartoon to have an episode about lying, and how its fun to lie (or steal, or be really greedy etc) and how that’s all OK. That would be teaching them bad stuff. If I had to pick a game show to watch as a family, I would pick one that teaches/supports/lives by ‘good stuff’ (not saying all TV teaches that, but the idea is 'chose which values to tolerate in your relaxation entertainment'). To me, setting the example of ‘giving the winnings away’ is setting (and teaching) a good example. I’m not some crazy fundyy who would go “OMG ‘Bible’, we’ve GOT to watch this” (actually, if it’s on mainstream TV, absolutely q: ) , but from what I’ve read and researched this show teaches good values.
It can still have benefit as far as the values it promotes, even if it is a ~Christian~ show. Ironically the liberals wouldn’t be nearly as frisked if it was on Buddhism or something. And also, please seriously consider if your allegations about the extent this show forces THA BIBLE OMG JESUS JESUS onto you. Its really not that bad, its a family comedy show for Pete’s sake.
I think that, if this encourages more people to read the bible, that'd be interesting to see how it raises the number of Atheists in the United States, since, statistically, atheists have obviously read a lot more of the Bible.
@Above: The sad fact is, whether your kid is truly raised by pop culture, etc, comes to factors behind your control. To be frank, as proved by Milgrim's experiments, most human beings are idiots. I.E: We're mostly dumbasses, our society only got this far on the backs of the intelligent ones and in spite of the majority of us.
This is why religion is so prominent and why the political landscape is getting more and more bad and corrupt and mainstream media is becoming more of a bitch. And it won't stop anytime soon, because human beings aren't going to be getting any smarter.
You either defer to authority (and therefore, respond to propaganda) or you're intelligent (the minority of people). And though raising can have a large impact on that, you can't stop propaganda raising kids, you can just hope that your kid is in the top 20%.
I watched the ep1 clip. It doesn´t look that bad. It´s focused on what´s in the books, not about christianity or faith. For example, one of the questions was "Is this quote from the Bible or the Lord of the RIngs". The show tests how much they know, and it´s about an interesting subject, even for someone who is not very religious.
It looks interesting and entertaining. A little bit on the corny side, but that is okay. I would watch it.
On the upside, I am going to assume there is no filthy language or questionable content in the show. I wouldn't mind watching this show with my family. Not only would they learn good morals and not have to listen to the majority of filth on TV, but they would see an entertaining gameshow.
On August 28 2012 19:46 EnE wrote: I think that, if this encourages more people to read the bible, that'd be interesting to see how it raises the number of Atheists in the United States, since, statistically, atheists have obviously read a lot more of the Bible.
@Above: The sad fact is, whether your kid is truly raised by pop culture, etc, comes to factors behind your control. To be frank, as proved by Milgrim's experiments, most human beings are idiots. I.E: We're mostly dumbasses, our society only got this far on the backs of the intelligent ones and in spite of the majority of us.
This is why religion is so prominent and why the political landscape is getting more and more bad and corrupt and mainstream media is becoming more of a bitch. And it won't stop anytime soon, because human beings aren't going to be getting any smarter.
You either defer to authority (and therefore, respond to propaganda) or you're intelligent (the minority of people). And though raising can have a large impact on that, you can't stop propaganda raising kids, you can just hope that your kid is in the top 20%.
Raises an interesting thought. I have thought quite a bit about what the importance of everyone's opinions are.
Ultimately, in short, I think that the opinion of every human being (even if they aren't a genius) is as important as the next. While the people at the top of the pyramid (intelligence-wise) may not follow this advice, it should be respected. The social aspect of being human and respecting others is something that many people (regardless of background) forget a lot of the time usually due to some misguided sense of importance.
BUT FOR THE UNIVERSE'S SAKE (see what I did there?^^), please don't expose children to your "faith". Don't brainwash and scare kids into believing that stuff. They should be able to decide whether to believe or not and what when they are 18+
Kids watch this stuff and might actually join in your loss of reality. If this shows airs past 11pm, I don't care. As long a kids get brainwashed and indoctrinated, I will fight this shit with whatever energy I have left.
When you believe something is right, and you live accordingly to that, it will show. Obvious. The problem is that no matter what opinion you hold, when you live in that and present that, people will have to interact with that opinion. Take the very topical example of "its ok to do absolutely everything, stupid, yucky, nasty stuff to get money."
We have a scumbag society, that says its neutral, its free, liberal, non-defining, and lets you think whatever you want to think. Its a scumbag society because that isn't actually the case. Lots of people are brought up with lots of TV. TV is not an evil thing in itself, I'm just using it as an example of a prominent source of popular media.
"The TV doesn't teach me what to believe and value, its just there for my entertainment". Nope. Its setting examples for moral values and expectations all over the place; game shows are quite guilty for the above one (even down to silly ones like Fear Factor). TV packages these messages as 'something you want' 'something you need' and 'something that is right and worth watching more of'. When kids are left in front of the TV, THEY ARE "brainwashed and indoctrinated" to accept those values, because the TV teaches them that they are OK. Except you seem to not want to acknowledge it, because the values the TV sprouts are likely also largely your own. They're so 'normal' people don't notice that they are being conformed to believing them.
Our generation had it much more than the last, and I'm quite concerned about the next generation, cause now they haven't only got the TV to rot their brains be their nannys, but they've got all sorts of shit THE INTERNET can offer. They are too young to discern what is good, right, worth seeking, and what is wrong, disgusting, damaging and potentially scarring. That is precisely why you have parents and parental guidance, because its the parent's responsibility to raise and guide their kids, to teach them how to tell between those two, to help them grow into wise, discerning adults.
There's no way you could keep a kid off the internet till he's 18+, and I believe the internet has lots of stuff that is so horrid NO ONE should see it. The kid's got to learn how to think for themselves, and to recognize when something is seriously wrong and screwed up, and that they should change the channel to not mess themselves up. But with more and more absent parents (TV = nanny) that sort of intensive parenting, and "leading/teaching them to walk in the ways of righteousness" is plummeting. The popular media, with TV as its historic main outlet (but now internet more and more) does the job of parenting instead. IT teaches them what is a good value, and what is wrong.
OK, there have been lots of 'Christians' with a track record of being too overbearing, and teaching/enforcing rules (legalism) rather than really growing people and developping them (relationship [with God]). You're scarred by that; it’s also a pretty big stereotype, but my experience in the US, sadly it is still a notable reality.
What I'm trying to demonstrate is that regardless, ([y]our) kids will be taught by someone. Don't be deluded, [y]our kids will be "brainwashed and indoctrinated" i.e. raised. Someone or something will teach them what to value, what to seek, what it is that gives satisfaction. The TV already does that indoctrination (into today’s culture) to lots of kids. What I'm saying is I refuse to leave it up to [insert moral authority, e.g. for me ‘Pop culture’] to teach my kids what's right and wrong, I won't let it pump my kids full of the crap it worships. This may sound like I’m on the precisely opposite, but parallel, side of the dichotomy. Scumbag you sound like the sort of person who would blanket insert a vague and ill-defined ‘religion’ into that space.
Hypothetically in the future when I must choose a TV show to watch with the kids, I will at least make sure to put on something that doesn’t shove misguided, foolish values down our throats. The point is, discern the values that it promotes and teaches, be it secular or not. You wouldn’t want a kids cartoon to have an episode about lying, and how its fun to lie (or steal, or be really greedy etc) and how that’s all OK. That would be teaching them bad stuff. If I had to pick a game show to watch as a family, I would pick one that teaches/supports/lives by ‘good stuff’ (not saying all TV teaches that, but the idea is 'chose which values to tolerate in your relaxation entertainment'). To me, setting the example of ‘giving the winnings away’ is setting (and teaching) a good example. I’m not some crazy fundyy who would go “OMG ‘Bible’, we’ve GOT to watch this” (actually, if it’s on mainstream TV, absolutely q: ) , but from what I’ve read and researched this show teaches good values.
It can still have benefit as far as the values it promotes, even if it is a ~Christian~ show. Ironically the liberals wouldn’t be nearly as frisked if it was on Buddhism or something. And also, please seriously consider if your allegations about the extent this show forces THA BIBLE OMG JESUS JESUS onto you. Its really not that bad, its a family comedy show for Pete’s sake.
Religion doesn't have a monopoly on morals. What religion does have is a license to switch off your brain and swallow/believe everything they feed you. Also it just scares kids into believing. "You have to believe in god and be good, or else you will end up in hell."
Of course you shouldn't let your kids watch "Mad Max" when they're little. The majority of kids TV shows have a moral at the end, which is a good thing. As long as this show doesn't limit morals to religion.
I might have overreacted in terms of this one show, because I didn't see it yet and I just assumed it was portraying the bible as the one answer to everything (and this assumption is not too far fetched, as the majority of religious shows etc. promote this kind of thinking [or rather this kind of not thinking]). If it doesn't do any of that stuff and just treats the bible as the badly written fiction it is, I'm fine with it.
Your post - which between the lines says "as long as my kids learn good values I don't give a shit what nonsense they believe" - is pretty much the opposite of how I think about religion. However, I don't think this is the thread to talk about that. If you want to know more about why it is so very important to shield our kids from faith shoot me a PM. I can give you a ton of good book recommendations, links and documentaries (and I'm not talking about the 0815 Dawkins/Hitchens stuff).
EPT
It would be nice if just this once Teamliquid could have a thread mildly related to religion, not devolve into a religious debate. Keep that shit in r/atheism or pm's ok?
