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Do not use this thread to beg users for beta access or trade access with others. Thanks. |
On September 03 2012 23:21 digmouse wrote:
Some clarification:
The data countained in the HotS beta map on Chinese server is legit, the author of that map is a reliable renowned map maker since BW days, if you was into the WC3 map scene you might know a Chinese mapmaker who pointed out the JASS exploit of pre 1.24 patches. This custom map was made by her, she has some close and reliable resources from Blizzard and they can be trusted.
So it's just another custom map based on rumors/what we have seen at events.
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So Protoss has scan now. I guess an invisible observer wasn't good enough :p
But seriously, those are some interesting changes if they hold true. I think Protoss is definitely going to see the most changes from Beta to release. It just doesn't seem like Blizzard really knows what they want to do with them. Seeing tempest based plays is going to be interesting.
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On September 03 2012 23:05 Tao367 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 03 2012 22:58 Grummler wrote:On September 03 2012 22:54 Lineridarz wrote:
Mothership's vortex ability now stun the units in target area for 20s and prevent any damage to these units.
This is the biggest and most retarded change ever.. blizzard is so dumb. No more archon toilet. Why is this dumb? Sounds like a reasonable change. The old vortex made PvZ endgame into "protoss either easily wins or horrible loses". Now there is much more "in between" possible, because units don't clump up anymore after vortex finishes. "Easily wins." No. Zerg have many ways to counter vortex, which they apparently barely ever use - I rarely see a np on a mothership and it's not hard to spread brood lords out. PvZ endgame is a coin flip at the moment, which is bad game design overall.
Yep. Exactly. And that's why the vortex change is good. And yeah, there are counters to vortex, but they result in the part you didnt quote -> protoss horrible loses. Don't try to make this into a balance discussion, which it isn't.
The vortex change is purely design related andd makes PvZ endgame less "coinflippy".
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On September 03 2012 23:25 Grummler wrote:Show nested quote +On September 03 2012 23:05 Tao367 wrote:On September 03 2012 22:58 Grummler wrote:On September 03 2012 22:54 Lineridarz wrote:
Mothership's vortex ability now stun the units in target area for 20s and prevent any damage to these units.
This is the biggest and most retarded change ever.. blizzard is so dumb. No more archon toilet. Why is this dumb? Sounds like a reasonable change. The old vortex made PvZ endgame into "protoss either easily wins or horrible loses". Now there is much more "in between" possible, because units don't clump up anymore after vortex finishes. "Easily wins." No. Zerg have many ways to counter vortex, which they apparently barely ever use - I rarely see a np on a mothership and it's not hard to spread brood lords out. PvZ endgame is a coin flip at the moment, which is bad game design overall. Yep. Exactly. And that's why the vortex change is good. And yeah, there are counters to vortex, but they result in the part you didnt quote -> protoss horrible loses. Don't try to make this into a balance discussion, which it isn't. The vortex change is purely design related andd makes PvZ endgame less "coinflippy".
Hmm. I didn't see that vortex change. Interesting. I could see it being used in more than just pvz now.
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On September 03 2012 22:38 Chr15t wrote:Show nested quote +On September 03 2012 21:03 Buchan wrote:From BNET: http://you.video.sina.com.cn/api/sinawebApi/outplayrefer.php/vid=84845657_1723863654_aE62Gio6Bm/K l1lHz2stqkP7KQNt6nkjmi3s1SnIwtdQ0/XM5GRZtUD5S/TB9kEqDhATJw3cfsg0ho/s.swfThis map was deleted one day after they posted. I think it's not a personal made map because all models and icons are as same as offical ones. Although some unit names are in Chinese, you still can read and understand. Important Changes: Zerg: Ultralisks' frenzied ability have not been deleted. Terrian: Widow mines' damage was decreased to 160 from 200. BCs' damage to ground was increased to 10 from 8. Reapers' regeneration ability doesn't need research, the upgrade to their speed is still there. Protoss: Oracles' cloak field ability was deleted, instead, they can scan a target area, all cloaked and burrowed units will be visible for 20s. Tempests' damage decreased to 30 and no longer have additional damage to massive units, attack speed decreased from 6 to 3.3. The purifier ability of mothership core has been changed to 25 damage, range 7 lasts 45 seconds from 60 damage, range 13 lasts 20 seconds. Mothership core now have a new ugly model. Mothership core now can move with a speed of 0.47. Mothership core's teleport to nexus ability has been deleted. Mothership core now have 100 shield and 150 Hp, down from 350/350. Mothership now have cloak field ability. Mothership's vortex ability now stun the units in target area for 20s and prevent any damage to these units. I assume the oracle scan is not like the terran scan, but a way to grant temporary detection to an area
So they made Tempest from a "meh" late-game unit, to a completely useless unit.
What's the point of getting Tempest now? lol, might as well bring back Carriers.
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Olli
Austria24422 Posts
On September 03 2012 23:25 Grummler wrote:Show nested quote +On September 03 2012 23:05 Tao367 wrote:On September 03 2012 22:58 Grummler wrote:On September 03 2012 22:54 Lineridarz wrote:
Mothership's vortex ability now stun the units in target area for 20s and prevent any damage to these units.
This is the biggest and most retarded change ever.. blizzard is so dumb. No more archon toilet. Why is this dumb? Sounds like a reasonable change. The old vortex made PvZ endgame into "protoss either easily wins or horrible loses". Now there is much more "in between" possible, because units don't clump up anymore after vortex finishes. "Easily wins." No. Zerg have many ways to counter vortex, which they apparently barely ever use - I rarely see a np on a mothership and it's not hard to spread brood lords out. PvZ endgame is a coin flip at the moment, which is bad game design overall. Yep. Exactly. And that's why the vortex change is good. And yeah, there are counters to vortex, but they result in the part you didnt quote -> protoss horrible loses. Don't try to make this into a balance discussion, which it isn't. The vortex change is purely design related andd makes PvZ endgame less "coinflippy".
So basically, you can now never ever ever beat BL/infestor in a battle. It now doesn't even depend on zerg screwing up anymore. Great. Unless they make this new vortex ability have a FAR bigger range than fungal growth and NP, no protoss will ever go to lategame anymore.
I mean, what unit will now counter BL/infestor? The tempest? Well, that thing dies too quickly and doesn't even do enough damage for zerg to really care about it. Also hey, infestors counter observers too so you won't even be able to use the range.
This change is horrible and I hope it won't happen.
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On September 03 2012 23:25 Grummler wrote:Show nested quote +On September 03 2012 23:05 Tao367 wrote:On September 03 2012 22:58 Grummler wrote:On September 03 2012 22:54 Lineridarz wrote:
Mothership's vortex ability now stun the units in target area for 20s and prevent any damage to these units.
This is the biggest and most retarded change ever.. blizzard is so dumb. No more archon toilet. Why is this dumb? Sounds like a reasonable change. The old vortex made PvZ endgame into "protoss either easily wins or horrible loses". Now there is much more "in between" possible, because units don't clump up anymore after vortex finishes. "Easily wins." No. Zerg have many ways to counter vortex, which they apparently barely ever use - I rarely see a np on a mothership and it's not hard to spread brood lords out. PvZ endgame is a coin flip at the moment, which is bad game design overall. Yep. Exactly. And that's why the vortex change is good. And yeah, there are counters to vortex, but they result in the part you didnt quote -> protoss horrible loses. Don't try to make this into a balance discussion, which it isn't. The vortex change is purely design related andd makes PvZ endgame less "coinflippy".
No, it makes it impossible for protoss to EVER win in the lategame.. Even with carrier / templar, protoss still needs vortex.
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On September 03 2012 23:29 CodeskyE wrote:Show nested quote +On September 03 2012 22:38 Chr15t wrote:On September 03 2012 21:03 Buchan wrote:From BNET: http://you.video.sina.com.cn/api/sinawebApi/outplayrefer.php/vid=84845657_1723863654_aE62Gio6Bm/K l1lHz2stqkP7KQNt6nkjmi3s1SnIwtdQ0/XM5GRZtUD5S/TB9kEqDhATJw3cfsg0ho/s.swfThis map was deleted one day after they posted. I think it's not a personal made map because all models and icons are as same as offical ones. Although some unit names are in Chinese, you still can read and understand. Important Changes: Zerg: Ultralisks' frenzied ability have not been deleted. Terrian: Widow mines' damage was decreased to 160 from 200. BCs' damage to ground was increased to 10 from 8. Reapers' regeneration ability doesn't need research, the upgrade to their speed is still there. Protoss: Oracles' cloak field ability was deleted, instead, they can scan a target area, all cloaked and burrowed units will be visible for 20s. Tempests' damage decreased to 30 and no longer have additional damage to massive units, attack speed decreased from 6 to 3.3. The purifier ability of mothership core has been changed to 25 damage, range 7 lasts 45 seconds from 60 damage, range 13 lasts 20 seconds. Mothership core now have a new ugly model. Mothership core now can move with a speed of 0.47. Mothership core's teleport to nexus ability has been deleted. Mothership core now have 100 shield and 150 Hp, down from 350/350. Mothership now have cloak field ability. Mothership's vortex ability now stun the units in target area for 20s and prevent any damage to these units. I assume the oracle scan is not like the terran scan, but a way to grant temporary detection to an area So they made Tempest from a "meh" late-game unit, to a completely useless unit. What's the point of getting Tempest now? lol, might as well bring back Carriers.
They can do better than Carriers... but I'm sure Protosses will figure out a use for Tempests
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On September 03 2012 23:31 DarkLordOlli wrote:Show nested quote +On September 03 2012 23:25 Grummler wrote:On September 03 2012 23:05 Tao367 wrote:On September 03 2012 22:58 Grummler wrote:On September 03 2012 22:54 Lineridarz wrote:
Mothership's vortex ability now stun the units in target area for 20s and prevent any damage to these units.
This is the biggest and most retarded change ever.. blizzard is so dumb. No more archon toilet. Why is this dumb? Sounds like a reasonable change. The old vortex made PvZ endgame into "protoss either easily wins or horrible loses". Now there is much more "in between" possible, because units don't clump up anymore after vortex finishes. "Easily wins." No. Zerg have many ways to counter vortex, which they apparently barely ever use - I rarely see a np on a mothership and it's not hard to spread brood lords out. PvZ endgame is a coin flip at the moment, which is bad game design overall. Yep. Exactly. And that's why the vortex change is good. And yeah, there are counters to vortex, but they result in the part you didnt quote -> protoss horrible loses. Don't try to make this into a balance discussion, which it isn't. The vortex change is purely design related andd makes PvZ endgame less "coinflippy". So basically, you can now never ever ever beat BL/infestor in a battle. It now doesn't even depend on zerg screwing up anymore. Great. Unless they make this new vortex ability have a FAR bigger range than fungal growth and NP, no protoss will ever go to lategame anymore. I mean, what unit will now counter BL/infestor? The tempest? Well, that thing dies too quickly and doesn't even do enough damage for zerg to really care about it. Also hey, infestors counter observers too so you won't even be able to use the range. This change is horrible and I hope it won't happen.
Tempests will be amazing at sniping BLs. You have Oracle for vision.
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On September 03 2012 23:32 Lineridarz wrote:Show nested quote +On September 03 2012 23:25 Grummler wrote:On September 03 2012 23:05 Tao367 wrote:On September 03 2012 22:58 Grummler wrote:On September 03 2012 22:54 Lineridarz wrote:
Mothership's vortex ability now stun the units in target area for 20s and prevent any damage to these units.
This is the biggest and most retarded change ever.. blizzard is so dumb. No more archon toilet. Why is this dumb? Sounds like a reasonable change. The old vortex made PvZ endgame into "protoss either easily wins or horrible loses". Now there is much more "in between" possible, because units don't clump up anymore after vortex finishes. "Easily wins." No. Zerg have many ways to counter vortex, which they apparently barely ever use - I rarely see a np on a mothership and it's not hard to spread brood lords out. PvZ endgame is a coin flip at the moment, which is bad game design overall. Yep. Exactly. And that's why the vortex change is good. And yeah, there are counters to vortex, but they result in the part you didnt quote -> protoss horrible loses. Don't try to make this into a balance discussion, which it isn't. The vortex change is purely design related andd makes PvZ endgame less "coinflippy". No, it makes it impossible for protoss to EVER win in the lategame.. Even with carrier / templar, protoss still needs vortex.
We thought the same thing about late game pvt, blord festor before mamaship became standard, mutas in pvz, warpgate allins/ 1/1/1 etc. pp.
Either the pro scene or blizzard have always managed to make sure there aren't impossible situations and the same thing will be true in hots. Heck even in bw zvp was considered imba before ffe.
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Erghh, can't talk to bronzies about this game, they just don't know enough or understand enough to even make a logical argument.
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On September 03 2012 23:35 MetalPanda wrote:Show nested quote +On September 03 2012 23:29 CodeskyE wrote:On September 03 2012 22:38 Chr15t wrote:On September 03 2012 21:03 Buchan wrote:From BNET: http://you.video.sina.com.cn/api/sinawebApi/outplayrefer.php/vid=84845657_1723863654_aE62Gio6Bm/K l1lHz2stqkP7KQNt6nkjmi3s1SnIwtdQ0/XM5GRZtUD5S/TB9kEqDhATJw3cfsg0ho/s.swfThis map was deleted one day after they posted. I think it's not a personal made map because all models and icons are as same as offical ones. Although some unit names are in Chinese, you still can read and understand. Important Changes: Zerg: Ultralisks' frenzied ability have not been deleted. Terrian: Widow mines' damage was decreased to 160 from 200. BCs' damage to ground was increased to 10 from 8. Reapers' regeneration ability doesn't need research, the upgrade to their speed is still there. Protoss: Oracles' cloak field ability was deleted, instead, they can scan a target area, all cloaked and burrowed units will be visible for 20s. Tempests' damage decreased to 30 and no longer have additional damage to massive units, attack speed decreased from 6 to 3.3. The purifier ability of mothership core has been changed to 25 damage, range 7 lasts 45 seconds from 60 damage, range 13 lasts 20 seconds. Mothership core now have a new ugly model. Mothership core now can move with a speed of 0.47. Mothership core's teleport to nexus ability has been deleted. Mothership core now have 100 shield and 150 Hp, down from 350/350. Mothership now have cloak field ability. Mothership's vortex ability now stun the units in target area for 20s and prevent any damage to these units. I assume the oracle scan is not like the terran scan, but a way to grant temporary detection to an area So they made Tempest from a "meh" late-game unit, to a completely useless unit. What's the point of getting Tempest now? lol, might as well bring back Carriers. They can do better than Carriers... but I'm sure Protosses will figure out a use for Tempests
newsflash: protosses have been trying to figure out a use for carriers for 2 years. a little buff to carriers would fix the problem for protoss late game.
also, if the info above the quote holds true, then tempest is pretty much useless.
just in case you missed it, i'll quote it: "Tempests' damage decreased to 30 and no longer have additional damage to massive units, attack speed decreased from 6 to 3.3"
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Olli
Austria24422 Posts
On September 03 2012 23:35 gedatsu wrote:Show nested quote +On September 03 2012 23:31 DarkLordOlli wrote:On September 03 2012 23:25 Grummler wrote:On September 03 2012 23:05 Tao367 wrote:On September 03 2012 22:58 Grummler wrote:On September 03 2012 22:54 Lineridarz wrote:
Mothership's vortex ability now stun the units in target area for 20s and prevent any damage to these units.
This is the biggest and most retarded change ever.. blizzard is so dumb. No more archon toilet. Why is this dumb? Sounds like a reasonable change. The old vortex made PvZ endgame into "protoss either easily wins or horrible loses". Now there is much more "in between" possible, because units don't clump up anymore after vortex finishes. "Easily wins." No. Zerg have many ways to counter vortex, which they apparently barely ever use - I rarely see a np on a mothership and it's not hard to spread brood lords out. PvZ endgame is a coin flip at the moment, which is bad game design overall. Yep. Exactly. And that's why the vortex change is good. And yeah, there are counters to vortex, but they result in the part you didnt quote -> protoss horrible loses. Don't try to make this into a balance discussion, which it isn't. The vortex change is purely design related andd makes PvZ endgame less "coinflippy". So basically, you can now never ever ever beat BL/infestor in a battle. It now doesn't even depend on zerg screwing up anymore. Great. Unless they make this new vortex ability have a FAR bigger range than fungal growth and NP, no protoss will ever go to lategame anymore. I mean, what unit will now counter BL/infestor? The tempest? Well, that thing dies too quickly and doesn't even do enough damage for zerg to really care about it. Also hey, infestors counter observers too so you won't even be able to use the range. This change is horrible and I hope it won't happen. Tempests will be amazing at sniping BLs. You have Oracle for vision.
Tempests fire too slowly and do too little damage to kill 15+ brood lords + a ton of infestors before you lose your entire army and half your bases. Plus, it's great that protoss now has to rely on 20 second vision. It'll take about 30 minutes to kill an army this way, and that's only if zerg doesn't make units and doesn't move out.
It's a horrible idea. The only change they need to make is fungal growth revealing cloaked units.
Well, for starters. I think the infestor needs far more work than that. But at least tempests would be viable this way.
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Sry for ignorance but did blizz gave key to some."mortal" or if not.did they gave hint when waves will start?
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Oracles' cloak field ability was deleted, instead, they can scan a target area, all cloaked and burrowed units will be visible for 20s.
this seriously has to be a joke
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On September 03 2012 23:40 Nawe wrote:
Sry for ignorance but did blizz gave key to some."mortal" or if not.did they gave hint when waves will start?
Gave one to Liquid'ret. Well, He's getting one tomorrow. According to his twitter and his gf's twitter
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Beta for progamers started?
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On September 03 2012 20:00 ProxyTerran wrote:
Just start the fucking beta and let the community balance it, that we get a release in 2012...
Chances of a 2012 release pretty slim, considering how long Blizzard betas tend to take.
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On September 03 2012 23:43 NeWeNiyaLord wrote:Show nested quote +On September 03 2012 23:40 Nawe wrote:
Sry for ignorance but did blizz gave key to some."mortal" or if not.did they gave hint when waves will start? Gave one to Liquid'ret. Well, He's getting one tomorrow. According to his twitter and his gf's twitter
Nothing shocking through, pretty much all established progamers will have a key in their inbox no doubt.
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On September 03 2012 23:38 CodeskyE wrote:Show nested quote +On September 03 2012 23:35 MetalPanda wrote:On September 03 2012 23:29 CodeskyE wrote:On September 03 2012 22:38 Chr15t wrote:On September 03 2012 21:03 Buchan wrote:From BNET: http://you.video.sina.com.cn/api/sinawebApi/outplayrefer.php/vid=84845657_1723863654_aE62Gio6Bm/K l1lHz2stqkP7KQNt6nkjmi3s1SnIwtdQ0/XM5GRZtUD5S/TB9kEqDhATJw3cfsg0ho/s.swfThis map was deleted one day after they posted. I think it's not a personal made map because all models and icons are as same as offical ones. Although some unit names are in Chinese, you still can read and understand. Important Changes: Zerg: Ultralisks' frenzied ability have not been deleted. Terrian: Widow mines' damage was decreased to 160 from 200. BCs' damage to ground was increased to 10 from 8. Reapers' regeneration ability doesn't need research, the upgrade to their speed is still there. Protoss: Oracles' cloak field ability was deleted, instead, they can scan a target area, all cloaked and burrowed units will be visible for 20s. Tempests' damage decreased to 30 and no longer have additional damage to massive units, attack speed decreased from 6 to 3.3. The purifier ability of mothership core has been changed to 25 damage, range 7 lasts 45 seconds from 60 damage, range 13 lasts 20 seconds. Mothership core now have a new ugly model. Mothership core now can move with a speed of 0.47. Mothership core's teleport to nexus ability has been deleted. Mothership core now have 100 shield and 150 Hp, down from 350/350. Mothership now have cloak field ability. Mothership's vortex ability now stun the units in target area for 20s and prevent any damage to these units. I assume the oracle scan is not like the terran scan, but a way to grant temporary detection to an area So they made Tempest from a "meh" late-game unit, to a completely useless unit. What's the point of getting Tempest now? lol, might as well bring back Carriers. They can do better than Carriers... but I'm sure Protosses will figure out a use for Tempests newsflash: protosses have been trying to figure out a use for carriers for 2 years. a little buff to carriers would fix the problem for protoss late game. also, if the info above the quote holds true, then tempest is pretty much useless. just in case you missed it, i'll quote it: "Tempests' damage decreased to 30 and no longer have additional damage to massive units, attack speed decreased from 6 to 3.3"
Perhaps I'm misunderstanding this, but doesn't the way Blizzard has used "attack speed" stats in the past mean that 3.3 is *faster* than 6? As in, the Tempest was actually buffed? I've always understood that stat to represent the delay between shots, in which case we're a lot better off with the new Tempest.
Old:
1x 30dmg (60dmg vs massive) every 6 seconds = 5 dps normal, 10 dps vs massive.
New:
1x 30dmg every 3.3 seconds = 9 dps vs all targets, but better ability to kite due to faster attack rate. It would actually do better vs non-massive targets than before.
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EPT
