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Heart of the Swarm beta coming soon! - Page 104

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Do not use this thread to beg users for beta access or trade access with others. Thanks.
PresenceSc2
Profile Joined February 2011
Australia4032 Posts
September 04 2012 12:15 GMT
#2061
On September 04 2012 21:10 MavercK wrote:

your a champion
Stephano//HerO//TaeJa//Squirtle//Bomber
Cyro
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
United Kingdom20285 Posts
September 04 2012 12:15 GMT
#2062
On September 04 2012 21:13 _vk_ wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 04 2012 21:07 Umpteen wrote:
Actually, I saw a pretty cool suggestion on the battlenet forums: give Locusts cliff jump/climb (rebalancing health/damage as necessary). That way SH's actually can 'nibble' in small numbers from a direction other than right in front of the enemy's main army.


You say "rebalance as necessary" like it's easy.

Would you trust the current game design team at Blizzard to balance a unit with an ability to generate infinite quantities of cliffwalkers? So that it's useful but not OP?


It takes like 20 probes or 2.5 zealots to kill A SINGLE locust in their current state
"oh my god my overclock... I got a single WHEA error on the 23rd hour, 9 minutes" -Belial88
Adonminus
Profile Joined January 2012
Israel543 Posts
September 04 2012 12:15 GMT
#2063
On September 04 2012 07:56 kollin wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 04 2012 07:54 PGLMilneCraft wrote:
On September 04 2012 07:29 Rah wrote:
On September 04 2012 07:04 Kodak wrote:
On September 04 2012 06:58 Rah wrote:
On September 04 2012 06:50 SuperYo1000 wrote:
On September 04 2012 06:43 Rah wrote:
On September 04 2012 06:06 Adonminus wrote:
On September 04 2012 06:02 Xenomorph wrote:
Does blizzard even know what they are doing with protoss? Removed about the only good ability with the Oracle and then made tempest even worse. No hope left for toss.

No, I actually believe those are changes in the good direction. Though protoss still hasn't a clear answer to Mech or the Hydra swarmhost viper composition which I fear will also become too good against the protoss.


No clear answer to mech? The Immortal's lost that dumb shield ability? Thank you Blizzard.



ha, well in current state immortals barely trade better then warhound...barely. Thats with thier dumb shield ability
Yes thank you blizzard


Why talk about a battle that would never happen? The only function Immortals have ever served vs T is denying mech from being an option. Against tanks Immortals are ridiculous. I don't know how warhound or mines will make it any easier to deal with a large number of immortals mixed into the army if you're going pure mech. Unless tanks no longer considered a vital part of pure mech?


iirc the missile spell or whatever the warhound gets ignores the hardened shield. I could be wrong, but I heard that somewhere. And by blizzard's standards, it appears that "mech" will simply be "mass a-move warhounds" so having immortals hard-counter tanks shouldn't be that big of an issue.

Such a stupid unit.


That doesn't make sense, why would they make up ridiculous rules like this rather than just redesigning the immortal's flawed ability? The game would have been better if they predicted what Immortals would actually be used for, high anti armor damage and immobile, it's more similiar to a reaver than colossus is. The shield's only served as overkill on tanks in TvP so that they never see use, so the shield never plays any major role since immortals are used more for their damage than their damage taking ability. It needs a redesign badly, they could bring it closer to reaver in the burst damage role, and it can be a far less boring unit. Zealots will always be the choice for eating damage.

I'd love to see the shield ability replaced with something cooler like a short rapid fire mode that maybe roots them in place for the duration or something else for that role. Something to make immortal drops more interesting.



I don't think Hardened shield is a flawed ability. First of all it halves (or more) the damage marauders do against it. Second of all the rule for hardened shield has always been that spells or abilities ignore it, so the fact that the missiles from the Warhound makes complete sense, in the same way that a Yamato Cannon and Thor Cannons can one-shot Immortals.

It also makes Immortals more resilient against roaches, ultra's, upgraded hydras, opposing archons (or other immortals), and I think it's quite unique and cool, and a fairly elegant solution to Mech Terrans. So I don't see hardened shield as being the enemy here. In any case, I don't think that's why mech isn't used against protoss, it's part of the reason but charge-lots and a big portion as well. Also the effectiveness of Bio which makes people reluctant to switch to mech. If you really want to counter immortals you can get some ghosts mixed in with your mech force as well (I understand that makes it somewhat difficult to pull off).


I actually find a lot of hellions counter immortals quite well when backed up with tanks. If you get them in close for maximum splash damage it can be really effective.

Hellions in speed mode, but hellions in battle hellion mode are armored and die fast to immortals.
MekTypro
Profile Joined July 2010
France360 Posts
September 04 2012 12:15 GMT
#2064
On September 04 2012 21:12 caneras wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 04 2012 21:10 MavercK wrote:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qa-IZ_Y98L0&feature=youtu.be


If these are in multiplayer and aren't 250/250 or something ridiculous, I'm switching to Zerg.


What is that thing puking a creep highway ??
Cyro
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
United Kingdom20285 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-09-04 12:17:16
September 04 2012 12:16 GMT
#2065
On September 04 2012 21:15 Adonminus wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 04 2012 07:56 kollin wrote:
On September 04 2012 07:54 PGLMilneCraft wrote:
On September 04 2012 07:29 Rah wrote:
On September 04 2012 07:04 Kodak wrote:
On September 04 2012 06:58 Rah wrote:
On September 04 2012 06:50 SuperYo1000 wrote:
On September 04 2012 06:43 Rah wrote:
On September 04 2012 06:06 Adonminus wrote:
On September 04 2012 06:02 Xenomorph wrote:
Does blizzard even know what they are doing with protoss? Removed about the only good ability with the Oracle and then made tempest even worse. No hope left for toss.

No, I actually believe those are changes in the good direction. Though protoss still hasn't a clear answer to Mech or the Hydra swarmhost viper composition which I fear will also become too good against the protoss.


No clear answer to mech? The Immortal's lost that dumb shield ability? Thank you Blizzard.



ha, well in current state immortals barely trade better then warhound...barely. Thats with thier dumb shield ability
Yes thank you blizzard


Why talk about a battle that would never happen? The only function Immortals have ever served vs T is denying mech from being an option. Against tanks Immortals are ridiculous. I don't know how warhound or mines will make it any easier to deal with a large number of immortals mixed into the army if you're going pure mech. Unless tanks no longer considered a vital part of pure mech?


iirc the missile spell or whatever the warhound gets ignores the hardened shield. I could be wrong, but I heard that somewhere. And by blizzard's standards, it appears that "mech" will simply be "mass a-move warhounds" so having immortals hard-counter tanks shouldn't be that big of an issue.

Such a stupid unit.


That doesn't make sense, why would they make up ridiculous rules like this rather than just redesigning the immortal's flawed ability? The game would have been better if they predicted what Immortals would actually be used for, high anti armor damage and immobile, it's more similiar to a reaver than colossus is. The shield's only served as overkill on tanks in TvP so that they never see use, so the shield never plays any major role since immortals are used more for their damage than their damage taking ability. It needs a redesign badly, they could bring it closer to reaver in the burst damage role, and it can be a far less boring unit. Zealots will always be the choice for eating damage.

I'd love to see the shield ability replaced with something cooler like a short rapid fire mode that maybe roots them in place for the duration or something else for that role. Something to make immortal drops more interesting.



I don't think Hardened shield is a flawed ability. First of all it halves (or more) the damage marauders do against it. Second of all the rule for hardened shield has always been that spells or abilities ignore it, so the fact that the missiles from the Warhound makes complete sense, in the same way that a Yamato Cannon and Thor Cannons can one-shot Immortals.

It also makes Immortals more resilient against roaches, ultra's, upgraded hydras, opposing archons (or other immortals), and I think it's quite unique and cool, and a fairly elegant solution to Mech Terrans. So I don't see hardened shield as being the enemy here. In any case, I don't think that's why mech isn't used against protoss, it's part of the reason but charge-lots and a big portion as well. Also the effectiveness of Bio which makes people reluctant to switch to mech. If you really want to counter immortals you can get some ghosts mixed in with your mech force as well (I understand that makes it somewhat difficult to pull off).


I actually find a lot of hellions counter immortals quite well when backed up with tanks. If you get them in close for maximum splash damage it can be really effective.

Hellions in speed mode, but hellions in battle hellion mode are armored and die fast to immortals.


They are armored in battle hellion mode? I was almost certain they gained 50% HP and remained light.

edit: HOTS custom reflects this - http://i.imgur.com/09RCO.png

There was a lot of research and many pages of comments going into that map.
"oh my god my overclock... I got a single WHEA error on the 23rd hour, 9 minutes" -Belial88
Cyro
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
United Kingdom20285 Posts
September 04 2012 12:17 GMT
#2066
On September 04 2012 21:15 MekTypro wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 04 2012 21:12 caneras wrote:
On September 04 2012 21:10 MavercK wrote:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qa-IZ_Y98L0&feature=youtu.be


If these are in multiplayer and aren't 250/250 or something ridiculous, I'm switching to Zerg.


What is that thing puking a creep highway ??


Its one of the new versions of the Nydus Worm
"oh my god my overclock... I got a single WHEA error on the 23rd hour, 9 minutes" -Belial88
MavercK
Profile Joined March 2010
Australia2181 Posts
September 04 2012 12:18 GMT
#2067
hellion, light, 90hp, 0 armor
battle mode, light, 135hp, 0 armor
Brood War Remake - SC2BW - http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=145316
perser84
Profile Joined October 2010
Germany399 Posts
September 04 2012 12:19 GMT
#2068
is the beta out ?
Umpteen
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United Kingdom1570 Posts
September 04 2012 12:19 GMT
#2069
On September 04 2012 21:10 Dingobloo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 04 2012 21:07 Umpteen wrote:
Actually, I saw a pretty cool suggestion on the battlenet forums: give Locusts cliff jump/climb (rebalancing health/damage as necessary). That way SH's actually can 'nibble' in small numbers from a direction other than right in front of the enemy's main army.


Then it starts really overlapping with the brood lord, they like units with unique and simple restrictions so I doubt that would happen.


Yeah; maybe. It's a shame, because it would accomplish a lot in terms of pulling supply out of the deathball, giving Zergs something worth rushing to against a turtling player instead of just being passive...

The existence of a food chain is inescapable if we evolved unsupervised, and inexcusable otherwise.
MekTypro
Profile Joined July 2010
France360 Posts
September 04 2012 12:19 GMT
#2070
On September 04 2012 21:17 Cyro wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 04 2012 21:15 MekTypro wrote:
On September 04 2012 21:12 caneras wrote:
On September 04 2012 21:10 MavercK wrote:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qa-IZ_Y98L0&feature=youtu.be


If these are in multiplayer and aren't 250/250 or something ridiculous, I'm switching to Zerg.


What is that thing puking a creep highway ??


Its one of the new versions of the Nydus Worm


Is it the same building that does transport and creep ? Does the "normal" nydus still puke creep around the nydus' exit ?
Noxie
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States2227 Posts
September 04 2012 12:19 GMT
#2071
Well heres to hoping i can get in
MavercK
Profile Joined March 2010
Australia2181 Posts
September 04 2012 12:20 GMT
#2072
Brood War Remake - SC2BW - http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=145316
Cyro
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
United Kingdom20285 Posts
September 04 2012 12:20 GMT
#2073
On September 04 2012 21:19 MekTypro wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 04 2012 21:17 Cyro wrote:
On September 04 2012 21:15 MekTypro wrote:
On September 04 2012 21:12 caneras wrote:
On September 04 2012 21:10 MavercK wrote:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qa-IZ_Y98L0&feature=youtu.be


If these are in multiplayer and aren't 250/250 or something ridiculous, I'm switching to Zerg.


What is that thing puking a creep highway ??


Its one of the new versions of the Nydus Worm


Is it the same building that does transport and creep ? Does the "normal" nydus still puke creep around the nydus' exit ?


AFAIK yes and yes
"oh my god my overclock... I got a single WHEA error on the 23rd hour, 9 minutes" -Belial88
pallad
Profile Joined September 2010
Poland1958 Posts
September 04 2012 12:20 GMT
#2074
On September 04 2012 21:12 caneras wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 04 2012 21:10 MavercK wrote:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qa-IZ_Y98L0&feature=youtu.be


If these are in multiplayer and aren't 250/250 or something ridiculous, I'm switching to Zerg.


I dont think its for MP , imo its some unit from single player. This creep is OP for sure.. and im zerg player ;P
But design on this nydus destroyers looks SO NICE IM IN LOVE ! <3
SC 2 -LingsLover- EU -- Jaedong , NesTea , Nerchio , DRG , Moon , Oz , Tarson , Scarlett -- Dota 2 Pallad EU- NaVi - LGD
Cyro
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
United Kingdom20285 Posts
September 04 2012 12:21 GMT
#2075
On September 04 2012 21:20 MavercK wrote:
http://youtu.be/0UeEQPqEMG4


With this and the warhound video am i the only one a little shaky for playing non-terran in beta? o.o
"oh my god my overclock... I got a single WHEA error on the 23rd hour, 9 minutes" -Belial88
Linwelin
Profile Joined March 2011
Ireland7554 Posts
September 04 2012 12:22 GMT
#2076
http://i.imgur.com/NiDKN.jpg

What did I break? : (
Fuck Razor and Death Prophet
mataxp
Profile Blog Joined October 2011
Chile538 Posts
September 04 2012 12:22 GMT
#2077
On September 04 2012 21:20 MavercK wrote:
http://youtu.be/0UeEQPqEMG4

Imagine only 4 of those things behind your mineral line. I dont play zerg, buts that was crazy..
Liquid.Hero Startale.Bomber MVP.Dongraegu
Drakn
Profile Joined February 2011
United Kingdom50 Posts
September 04 2012 12:23 GMT
#2078
Maverck, how did you get the Swarm dependencies to work in custom map?
NANANANANANANA
pallad
Profile Joined September 2010
Poland1958 Posts
September 04 2012 12:23 GMT
#2079
On September 04 2012 21:22 Linwelin wrote:
http://i.imgur.com/NiDKN.jpg

What did I break? : (


Dont instal in same place that WoL , delete old sc2 1.5 beta folder if you have one in past.. and you should be fine.
SC 2 -LingsLover- EU -- Jaedong , NesTea , Nerchio , DRG , Moon , Oz , Tarson , Scarlett -- Dota 2 Pallad EU- NaVi - LGD
Cabinet Sanchez
Profile Joined February 2011
Australia1097 Posts
September 04 2012 12:24 GMT
#2080
I wouldnt' be surprised if half the shit in this thread is from the SP campaign :/
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