EPTYou can't , sorry.
Do we still want the Roach in HotS? - Page 2
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algue
France1436 Posts
You can't , sorry. | ||
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Qikz
United Kingdom12022 Posts
On June 16 2012 18:35 Amlitzer wrote: The thing I hate about the roach is that it has these really interesting mechanics (burrow move and regen) that go unused 99% of the time. Instead they are just used as a pure dps unit, which isn't what I imagine blizzard intending at all. I think they really need to revert their range back to 3 for starters. That's the way I see roaches IMO. Especially since Terrans never get any ravens so burrowing under tanks would be really bloody useful. | ||
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CatNzHat
United States1599 Posts
On June 16 2012 18:33 Fleshcut wrote: It's too important to Zs to remove it. Why not remove the tanks from terran? They are boring. Leading to turtle style play and impossible to crack defenses. Roaches are at least mobile and get you into a real game even if I have to admit that they are boring compared to lings. But you can't remove any of them. :/ Sadly. Units that control space like siege tanks, allow for terran to be more aggressive because they're safer from counter attacks. This dynamic creates interesting and exciting gameplay, they don't lead to turtle playstyles, but allow for it, just like collosus and sentries. | ||
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gingerfluffmuff
Austria4570 Posts
Roach is the only tanky combat unit zerg has the first 13 minutes or so. How are u gonna defend against Zealots and Hellions? Range back to 3? Goes really well with FF... IMO the best unit of the three (Roach, Marauder;Stalker) is the Stalker. Versatile and microable with Blink. | ||
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Cascade
Australia5405 Posts
On June 16 2012 18:31 okrane wrote: All opinions are welcome. The idea is interesting, and has some potential imo, but you completely fail to address the hard part... The idea stands and falls with what you replace the roach with. You would have to rebuild the entire dynamics of three matchup from tier 1.5 and up. How would you do that? Until you have some kind of thoughts on what the replacement could look like, and how it would be better, then this discussion won't go any further than "roaches are boring lulz". Everyone can complain about things not working perfectly ("collosus OP", "marines imba", "BL inf unbeatable" etc), but without constructive ideas on how the situation can be improved, complaining doesn't help anyone. So I ask: WHY is the roach not wanted? Why is it needed? What could fulfill the same role, but without the drawbacks? | ||
lichter
1001 YEARS KESPAJAIL22272 Posts
Ability to select only burrowed or unburrowed units (ctrl+click) More distinct unit portraits for burrowed vs unburrowed units = more interesting Roach micro? | ||
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forsooth
United States3648 Posts
On June 16 2012 18:33 Fleshcut wrote: Why not remove the tanks from terran? They are boring. You should delete your account, go outside, and rethink your life. | ||
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teddyoojo
Germany22369 Posts
On June 16 2012 18:33 Fleshcut wrote: It's too important to Zs to remove it. Why not remove the tanks from terran? They are boring. Leading to turtle style play and impossible to crack defenses. Roaches are at least mobile and get you into a real game even if I have to admit that they are boring compared to lings. But you can't remove any of them. :/ Sadly. tanks are bad, i have no problem with that | ||
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Bluething
Lithuania75 Posts
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Cyro
United Kingdom20274 Posts
1 supply 100hp/3 range and same dps as now But protoss thirds are already 100-130 supply when zerg hits max on 3-4hatch roach production.. they would not pass 150 before zerg was maxed on 1 supply roaches and when 60 current roaches can end a lot of zvps, i cant imagine what 120 slightly nerfed ones would do.. | ||
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Zrana
United Kingdom698 Posts
You can get Roaches much quicker than Swarm Hosts though (hatch instead of lair tech). They're much more expensive than roaches and according to those that played they're really underwhelming. Not cost efficient at all. Also Roaches aren't purely a defensive unit and doesn't play the (intended) siege role that the Swarm Host does. I don't see the similarity in application at all. I kinda meant that you can defend an all-in with them as well as pressure the opponent in the midgame. With the lower gas cost you can get roaches out earlier but if you can defend with ling/spine until about 10mins ish you can maybe make the same thing happen with swarm hosts. If they are indeed underwhelming then maybe that wont happen or maybe they'll be buffed. Also, we really don't know how the game will look. Hydras look waay more tempting to make now with abduct owning collosi and the speed upgrade making storm a bit less harsh. Anyway i don't see the problem with roaches. I know a lot of protoss players hate them but losing to collosus or a vortex going off before you snipe the Mship has gotta be worse than losing to mass roach. | ||
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Chaosvuistje
Netherlands2581 Posts
I wouldn't mind that to happen, but you know, it will just be replaced by another swarmy 1a unit. So no, getting rid of it has no benefit whatsoever to the people watching considering that there are loads of 1a units out there that are just as exciting as the roach in other races. | ||
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[]Phase[]
Belgium927 Posts
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Garmer
1286 Posts
On June 16 2012 19:02 Cyro wrote: But protoss thirds are already 100-130 supply when zerg hits max on 3-4hatch roach production.. they would not pass 150 before zerg was maxed on 1 supply roaches and when 60 current roaches can end a lot of zvps, i cant imagine what 120 slightly nerfed ones would do.. 100 instead of 145 and 3 range instead of 4 is not a sligthly nerf for sure, if it's still a problem just lower it to 80hp, problem solved but roach 1 suppy is more zergish and less protish | ||
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sleepingdog
Austria6145 Posts
On June 16 2012 19:00 Bluething wrote: Why create these stupid threads? ._.; Because it's a perfectly valid question that I myself have been pondering about lately... Let's face it, the roach is god-awful in PvZ. It's a boring unit that can quickly win games if you follow Stephano's macro-style. In many games no transition is needed. I would be very happy to see a new approach that wouldn't include the roach. Obviously there had to be a replacement. Just think about the following: why should any zerg even USE the new HotS-units in PvZ when protoss - apparently - doesn't get another anti-roach-unit anyways? Even though we have to wait for the beta obviously, I don't see why mass-roaching shouldn't still be viable in HotS. | ||
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sluggaslamoo
Australia4494 Posts
And 1 supply hydras with speed upgrade at hatch tech returned. | ||
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Vindicare605
United States16032 Posts
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Hall0wed
United States8486 Posts
On June 16 2012 18:38 freetgy wrote: I think roaches are fine, but the are to fast & tanky for the ressourc cost. usually a unit is either fast or tanky. A speed roach has movement speed of 4 on creep.....almost as fast as speedlings. As far as i am aware 2 roaches beat any equivalent of 150/50 ressource army of the opponents, which makes them a very boring a-move unit in most of the cases. 1 Stalker | ||
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Macpo
453 Posts
Now, they are also the most essential unit of the zerg arsenal, so suppressing the roach would probably mean suppressing the whole zerg knowledge about the game. So I am not sure about it; but would definitely be happy to see blizzard try something about this... maybe even reconsidering the animation for burrow, so that burrow micro may become interesting? | ||
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Garmer
1286 Posts
On June 16 2012 19:07 sluggaslamoo wrote: I would like to see the Roach/Marauder/Colossus/Immortal removed. And 1 supply hydras with speed upgrade at hatch tech returned. i'm with you, worst units in starcraft's history(but immortal is cool) | ||
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