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Keep this civil, guys |
On May 04 2012 21:57 kcbgoku wrote:
Honestly I don't think it affects him that much.
On the other hand it is starting to hurt everyone else, first Orb drama, now this, it's just a matter of time until next one comes up. This shit needs to stop, if not from stupid whiny drama looking kids than from teams and sponsors.
The internet is the internet, you have to notice that the professionalism you're reffering to, is non-existant and non-achievable on the internet. Do you realize that most of players said some stupid shit at least one time? Do you really want to commit to something ridiculous like this? Punishing everyone of them for it, in this day and age, when on the internet I see 95% of people acting worse than that? Who the fu** is throwing the first stone?
It's impossible to get offended by stuff like this in 2012 when in every game I play I see only one angrier person than another, BMing eachother. Everyone who has been on the internet for 15 minutes and owns a brain knows that.
What I see happening seems to me like next level BM of one more angrier guy. And I bet that right now, the next drama troll, is sitting in his cave already, watching replays, and looking for the next target.
Someone has to find a way to fight this, because frankly it will eventually became like this: 1st guy will message sponsor that he won't buy his stuff, because he said "fag" on stream. Team will fire him or whatever, and then the 2nd guy will be like: Hey I liked this player, you're not supporting him anymore? Well then fu and your product.
Do you really want this vicious circle to destroy every person who said stupid shit? Think about that. Because eventually there won't be anyone left.
Except those with the common sense to keep their hate-filled comments to themselves.
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On May 04 2012 18:12 Feidspar wrote:
The TL community is a cancer and I'm terrified for the future of starcraft if these nazis are in charge.
Racism is not okay, but sexism is? And homophobia is also acceptable? If not, better ban and un-list 90% of all pro players. Who gets to cherrypick which insults are fine and dandy? Hypocrits.
Oh. And how about banning the idiot mods who instigate others by calling them pussies and retards.
User was banned for this post.
Way to answer some fair criticism => BAN! ... pretty sad if you ask me. This guy does have a point. Or did.
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Him leaving was perhaps too drastic, but still better than staying and nothing happening. A simple reprimand and him not being big mouthed would have sufficed. Some people here saying him being fired is bad for esports, tell me: a newcomer gets here, he watches a random stream that happens to be Destiny's. Since it has a lot of people it must be good and what the community of this game likes. Now he sees how he behaves. What might he think? If this community supports a player that is xenophobic, angry, and badly educated the viewers either are having fun at the character or probably aren't that different. Either way, see ya.
Esports is better without people that behave like this. If we allow someone to misbehave like this, there's no reason not to allow everyone else.
And about all the comparisons to other sports. I wonder how much you really watch any sport, because at least in my country, we don't see this kind of stupidy in television. Were destiny a football player, i would laugh if he would tried to appear as if he was right after insulting someone. If someone on the field insults someone else, and that happens to be caught on tv, i assure you it's not good for the player. If the referree is insulted, instant yellow card. If you insult someone here on TL, you get warned / banned. What's the logic behind that, that suddenly stops being valid in twitch.tv or battle.net ?
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On May 04 2012 21:57 thesideshow wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2012 21:50 lorkac wrote:On May 04 2012 21:46 Soma Cruz wrote:On May 04 2012 21:44 lorkac wrote:On May 04 2012 21:39 Soma Cruz wrote:
I really hope Destiny never changes his personality. I love that he stays true to himself no matter what happens.
I understand that he isn't racist and is just using those words in a general, non racist context to try and insult the other player for cheesing. Some people can't figure it out, though.
When IdrA calls people retarded or tells the other player to kill themselves, no one gets as butthurt and emails sponsors. Even though wishing death on someone is much worse than plainly insulting them Except Destiny was not kicked out for insulting people. He was not fired for saying fuck, or ass, or whatever. He was not fired for swearing. He was fired for using bigoted language. He wasn't kicked. He left. And he wasn't using them in a racist context. He was using it interchangably with "moron" (which was a derogatory word for handicapped people) or "STUPID FUCKING CHEESER" I don't see why everyone has to be a hyper sensitive flower in this community. It's really getting old. Yes. To him Asian, moron, and cheeser (someone who wins unfairly, cheater, etc...) mean the same thing. In other words, he was racist--by your observation. Why? Because he thinks there's no difference between calling someone a cheater and calling them asian, because obviously asians are cheaters too (according to that mindset). How did you come to that conclusion?
Um....
He was using it interchangably with "moron" (which was a derogatory word for handicapped people) or "STUPID FUCKING CHEESER"
Your words.
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I really admire Destiny for what he is doing. I think it is quite selfless and shows some respect for (former) fellow teammates. That being said, I think that he was pretty childish in this. I suppose I can understand, he was angry, but he has time to think it over and decide whether or not to press 'post.' Clearly, he either didn't, or he really means what he says when bashing TL mods and other players that use profanity. Both ways, I can't honestly say I like it.
Incredible to imagine that all this would blow up from one thread on TL. I wonder how that guy who started the thread feels now.
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On May 04 2012 21:57 kcbgoku wrote:
Honestly I don't think it affects him that much.
On the other hand it is starting to hurt everyone else, first Orb drama, now this, it's just a matter of time until next one comes up. This shit needs to stop, if not from stupid whiny drama looking kids than from teams and sponsors.
The internet is the internet, you have to notice that the professionalism you're reffering to, is non-existant and non-achievable on the internet. Do you realize that most of players said some stupid shit at least one time? Do you really want to commit to something ridiculous like this? Punishing everyone of them for it, in this day and age, when on the internet I see 95% of people acting worse than that? Who the fu** is throwing the first stone?
It's impossible to get offended by stuff like this in 2012 when in every game I play I see only one angrier person than another, BMing eachother. Everyone who has been on the internet for 15 minutes and owns a brain knows that.
What I see happening seems to me like next level BM of one more angrier guy. And I bet that right now, the next drama troll, is sitting in his cave already, watching replays, and looking for the next target.
Someone has to find a way to fight this, because frankly it will eventually became like this: 1st guy will message sponsor that he won't buy his stuff, because he said "fag" on stream. Team will fire him or whatever, and then the 2nd guy will be like: Hey I liked this player, you're not supporting him anymore? Well then fu and your product.
Do you really want this vicious circle to destroy every person who said stupid shit? Think about that. Because eventually there won't be anyone left.
99.9 percent of the population wouldn't say any of these comments in a public place because it is common sense. It's the same mindset with ppl on social media where they post pictures of themselves smoking bongs or robbing a house. The internet is watching you and unless your 13, they know its wrong and immature to use that type of language in a professional setting. Yes, streaming for money is a professional setting.
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On May 04 2012 15:46 tribulator wrote:As posted by Destiny on reddit: http://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/comments/t6i9v/destiny_and_quantic_parting_ways/Show nested quote +Grab your chairs, bros. I feel really bad that a semi-irrelevant player who streams a lot constantly shits up these boards with drama, but then I saw this as the first rated post and I didn't feel as bad. I've talked to Mark a lot over the past couple days, and we've come to the decision that it'd be best for both of our relationships for me to step aside from Quantic. I really appreciate the help/support from Quantic, and everyone on it, and everything they've done for me up to this point, but I feel like I've become more of a liability than an asset to them. I'm not about to release some hollow/empty apologies that mean nothing, and I can't even guarantee that I won't let any "bigot/racist/hateful/nazi/apocalyptic" speech cross my stream again. There were a few options on the table when we were discussing things, but all of the options left Quantic in a really rough position. The fact of the matter is, me leaving Quantic or forfeiting any sponsorship really doesn't hurt my income, or affect me, much at all. But it would be devastating to certain parts of Quantic if things continued down this road (and still might be, though there's not much that can be done at this point). I really appreciate everything they've done for me up to this point and I don't like to stay in some place where I feel like I'm hurting the environment around me too much, so I think it'd be easier for us to separate ties. I wish all of them the best, and hope to work with them in some ways in the future. For those that hate, continue hating, I love every second of it. For those that like to e-mail sponsors, good luck with your campaign, though it's sad that the only players you're hurting are those that don't stream and those that don't generate revenue outside of team salaries. And for those that support me, I appreciate all of you guys, too. And just for funs, if you think Razer's cleaning up the scene because they won't support teams who's members use racist/hateful/inflammatory speech, tell them they're doing a good job. Don't forget to mention all of the things some other players have said, like making fun of a kid who was sexually molested (ban number 11), or when teamliquid's own moderators use hate speech, because consistency is important! http://www.razersupport.com/index.php?_m=tickets&_a=submitOn the other hand, if you think they're spineless assholes who want to police bad words in a game where you're nuking/murdering/destroying other people, or games where the main character has to endure torture or murder innocent civilians (MW2), that's fine, too.  http://www.razersupport.com/index.php?_m=tickets&_a=submitAlso, since TL has me unlisted for 30 days, I will shamelessly plug my stream: http://www.own3d.tv/Destiny <3
This guy thinks he's tough. Complain to owned TV and teach him a lesson. He's straight up calling you guys on. Nobody can survive a provable accusation of racism. You're more likely to get supported if you murder someone. Take it to owned and then to Twitch TV when he switches and he'll be cleaning toilets in no time.
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On May 04 2012 22:00 CyDe wrote:
I really admire Destiny for what he is doing. I think it is quite selfless and shows some respect for (former) fellow teammates. That being said, I think that he was pretty childish in this. I suppose I can understand, he was angry, but he has time to think it over and decide whether or not to press 'post.' Clearly, he either didn't, or he really means what he says when bashing TL mods and other players that use profanity. Both ways, I can't honestly say I like it.
Incredible to imagine that all this would blow up from one thread on TL. I wonder how that guy who started the thread feels now.
He could have also made a public apology and stayed with Quantic. In order to protect his teammates and to not hamper his career. It would have been the best of both worlds.
Instead he chooses the path that screws only himself.
I'm pretty sure he was fired.
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On May 04 2012 21:59 SolidMustard wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2012 18:12 Feidspar wrote:
The TL community is a cancer and I'm terrified for the future of starcraft if these nazis are in charge.
Racism is not okay, but sexism is? And homophobia is also acceptable? If not, better ban and un-list 90% of all pro players. Who gets to cherrypick which insults are fine and dandy? Hypocrits.
Oh. And how about banning the idiot mods who instigate others by calling them pussies and retards.
User was banned for this post. Way to answer some fair criticism => BAN! ... pretty sad if you ask me. This guy does have a point. Or did.
He did have a point but didnt post it in an acceptable way. Whats there to discuss about this ban?
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On May 04 2012 21:59 SolidMustard wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2012 18:12 Feidspar wrote:
The TL community is a cancer and I'm terrified for the future of starcraft if these nazis are in charge.
Racism is not okay, but sexism is? And homophobia is also acceptable? If not, better ban and un-list 90% of all pro players. Who gets to cherrypick which insults are fine and dandy? Hypocrits.
Oh. And how about banning the idiot mods who instigate others by calling them pussies and retards.
User was banned for this post. Way to answer some fair criticism => BAN! ... pretty sad if you ask me. This guy does have a point. Or did.
When will the people who are against the mods on TL learn that you can bring up these points in a civil, non-attacking manner (yeah, because calling them Nazis is really helpful)? Plus this isn't the right thread for that. There are other ones, like Website Feedback. I have some faith that the mods will answer as long as you don't ask like a total prick; he wasn't banned for the criticism, he was banned for calling the TL community a "cancer" and calling the mods "nazis." At least that is how I see it.
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On May 04 2012 21:31 iTsCaRNaGe wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2012 21:27 DonYuan wrote:
I'm only doing this because I read the stupid post by Destiny talking shit, saying his income isn't effected etc etc. Your mouth is going to get you in trouble there tough guy.
The way to get him is to complain to his streaming site owned. Get him kicked off there and he's working at madonalds where he belongs. See how tough he talks then.
Umm... You're greatly confused. You do realize all of these players own3d.tv streams is what generates the own3d.tv revenue, and own3d.tv is at no risk by these players doing what they do because the majority of their viewers don't care. If the viewers did care they simply wouldn't have as many viewers as they do now. Do you think Destiny is the only one who streams with a potty mouth?
I'm pretty confident that a public outcry of racism will make them back off of anyone, especially a nobody like Destiny
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Rofl, and people wonder why Koreans has no "personalities".
Seems like we're starting to go down that road as well...
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TAKE IT TO THE STREAMING SITE, THAT IS THE WAY TO PUNISH THESE PEOPLE. hIT THEM WHERE IT HURTS.
iN B4 NUKE
User was banned for this post.
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On May 04 2012 22:04 Taiki wrote:
Rofl, and people wonder why Koreans has no "personalities".
Seems like we're starting to go down that road as well...
So enlighten me, why the "lack of personalities" in Korea?
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On May 04 2012 21:59 lorkac wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2012 21:57 thesideshow wrote:On May 04 2012 21:50 lorkac wrote:On May 04 2012 21:46 Soma Cruz wrote:On May 04 2012 21:44 lorkac wrote:On May 04 2012 21:39 Soma Cruz wrote:
I really hope Destiny never changes his personality. I love that he stays true to himself no matter what happens.
I understand that he isn't racist and is just using those words in a general, non racist context to try and insult the other player for cheesing. Some people can't figure it out, though.
When IdrA calls people retarded or tells the other player to kill themselves, no one gets as butthurt and emails sponsors. Even though wishing death on someone is much worse than plainly insulting them Except Destiny was not kicked out for insulting people. He was not fired for saying fuck, or ass, or whatever. He was not fired for swearing. He was fired for using bigoted language. He wasn't kicked. He left. And he wasn't using them in a racist context. He was using it interchangably with "moron" (which was a derogatory word for handicapped people) or "STUPID FUCKING CHEESER" I don't see why everyone has to be a hyper sensitive flower in this community. It's really getting old. Yes. To him Asian, moron, and cheeser (someone who wins unfairly, cheater, etc...) mean the same thing. In other words, he was racist--by your observation. Why? Because he thinks there's no difference between calling someone a cheater and calling them asian, because obviously asians are cheaters too (according to that mindset). How did you come to that conclusion? Um.... Show nested quote +He was using it interchangably with "moron" (which was a derogatory word for handicapped people) or "STUPID FUCKING CHEESER" Your words.
That wasn't me.
Anyway, saying that "asians" = "gook" is abit of a stretch. Sure they mean the same thing, but one is insulting while the other isn't.
If you think they are completely synonymous, then you would appear to be somewhat racist (because the word "asian" also has that negative connotation to you).
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On May 04 2012 21:58 Soma Cruz wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On May 04 2012 21:56 Exarl25 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2012 21:48 Soma Cruz wrote:On May 04 2012 21:46 TricksAre4Figs wrote:On May 04 2012 21:39 Soma Cruz wrote:
I really hope Destiny never changes his personality. I love that he stays true to himself no matter what happens.
I understand that he isn't racist and is just using those words in a general, non racist context to try and insult the other player for cheesing. Some people can't figure it out, though.
When IdrA calls people retarded or tells the other player to kill themselves, no one gets as butthurt and emails sponsors. Even though wishing death on someone is much worse than plainly insulting them You love that Destiny is staying true to being a hate mongering bigot? How is he a bigot? Because he isn't racist or homophobic? Oh wait, you're just taking the words at their base meaning and not looking at the context. He isn't saying "I FUCKING HATE ALL ASIAN/BLACK/GAY PEOPLE". He is saying "HOLY SHIT YOU DUMB CHEESY BASTARD" Have you never considered why we use certain words as insults? Why do you insult a person by calling them a piece of shit? It's because shit is an extremely undesirable thing for a person to be compared to, hence it being insulting. This is true of every insult, you are calling someone something negative and undesirable or at least something that was considered to be negative and undesirable at the time the word was popularized, that's what makes them insults.It's like when you call someone a faggot. Whatever you choose to believe the fact is that in modern usage the word faggot is a derogatory term for a homosexual. When you try to insult someone and your word of choice to do so is "faggot", the implication there is that homosexuality is a negative and undesirable attribute. That's looking at context. If he congratulated a friend by saying "Great job gook!" then talking about context would be a defense. But he didn't, he insulted a guy on ladder by calling him a gook. I'm looking at the context, and that is an absolutely disgusting thing to say. How would words ever change if people used them in the same context all the time? And faggot isn't just gay people. Just because you're gay, doesn't make you a faggot. Faggot very much is a general insult now. It's been pretty much warped down by now.
You yet again fail to grasp the point here. If Destiny wasn't trying to be racist, why did he choose a racially charged slur over a non racially charged insult?
Do I think Destiny is an actual racist based on his using racist slurs on his stream? No.
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On May 04 2012 21:59 SolidMustard wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2012 18:12 Feidspar wrote:
The TL community is a cancer and I'm terrified for the future of starcraft if these nazis are in charge.
Racism is not okay, but sexism is? And homophobia is also acceptable? If not, better ban and un-list 90% of all pro players. Who gets to cherrypick which insults are fine and dandy? Hypocrits.
Oh. And how about banning the idiot mods who instigate others by calling them pussies and retards.
User was banned for this post. Way to answer some fair criticism => BAN! ... pretty sad if you ask me. This guy does have a point. Or did.
he was banned because he's saying the TL community are as bad as nazis, which its not, and an inappropriate comment in a site with standards.
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On May 04 2012 22:04 donyuansc2 wrote:
TAKE IT TO THE STREAMING SITE, THAT IS THE WAY TO PUNISH THESE PEOPLE. hIT THEM WHERE IT HURTS.
iN B4 NUKE
You're really shooting yourself in the foot here. Not because of the point behind your post, but because of the way you presented it. I would recommend that if you don't *want* to get banned, you turn off Caps Lock and remove "iN B4 NUKE" as well.
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On May 04 2012 22:04 Taiki wrote:
Rofl, and people wonder why Koreans has no "personalities".
Seems like we're starting to go down that road as well...
I watch a lot of Koreans with personality. It's all about perspective.
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On May 04 2012 21:56 Exarl25 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2012 21:48 Soma Cruz wrote:On May 04 2012 21:46 TricksAre4Figs wrote:On May 04 2012 21:39 Soma Cruz wrote:
I really hope Destiny never changes his personality. I love that he stays true to himself no matter what happens.
I understand that he isn't racist and is just using those words in a general, non racist context to try and insult the other player for cheesing. Some people can't figure it out, though.
When IdrA calls people retarded or tells the other player to kill themselves, no one gets as butthurt and emails sponsors. Even though wishing death on someone is much worse than plainly insulting them You love that Destiny is staying true to being a hate mongering bigot? How is he a bigot? Because he isn't racist or homophobic? Oh wait, you're just taking the words at their base meaning and not looking at the context. He isn't saying "I FUCKING HATE ALL ASIAN/BLACK/GAY PEOPLE". He is saying "HOLY SHIT YOU DUMB CHEESY BASTARD" Have you never considered why we use certain words as insults? Why do you insult a person by calling them a piece of shit? It's because shit is an extremely undesirable thing for a person to be compared to, hence it being insulting. This is true of every insult, you are calling someone something negative and undesirable or at least something that was considered to be negative and undesirable at the time the word was popularized, that's what makes them insults.It's like when you call someone a faggot. Whatever you choose to believe the fact is that in modern usage the word faggot is a derogatory term for a homosexual. When you try to insult someone and your word of choice to do so is "faggot", the implication there is that homosexuality is a negative and undesirable attribute. That's looking at context. If he congratulated a friend by saying "Great job gook!" then talking about context would be a defense. But he didn't, he insulted a guy on ladder by calling him a gook. I'm looking at the context, and that is an absolutely disgusting thing to say. If there is nothing wrong with being asian then why are you trying to insult someone by using a word that is a derogatory term for asian people? It's not insulting then.
Wouldn't finding it offensive mean that you agree that it's a negative attribute? How can it be offensive if being asian isn't considered bad?
People use slurs not because they're racist, but because they get a reaction. A reaction from people like you. As soon as people stop being offended and making a big deal out of it then the word becomes powerless.
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