|
Keep this civil, guys |
On May 04 2012 17:04 mememolly wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2012 17:00 papaz wrote:On May 04 2012 16:53 mememolly wrote:On May 04 2012 16:51 imMUTAble787 wrote:On May 04 2012 16:47 mememolly wrote:On May 04 2012 16:40 BakedButters wrote:
I will gladly continue to express my dislike of Destiny, as per his own rant. Your insensitive attitude towards the community, unprofessional manner/behavior, does not encourage the growth of e-sports.
I don't know why you think your the shit, but in the end, it's performance results, sportsmanlike attitude (arrogant or humble), hard work, that makes you respected in this community and sport.
Sure you might have fans now because your a US foreigner, but in the end your crappy attitude will bite you back, and you will become irrelevant, if you don't change you know you didn't have to watch his stream right? stop trying to police the world to your standards seems more like the community policed an individual to the community's standards. maybe one day you'll understand this individual's opinion represents a sizeable percentage of the people on this site. lolol so we should just let the mob decide everything for us and allow no individuality in the scene? thanks lolol Funny you should use the word "we". The vocal "we" just spoke its mind and as a result the clown Destiny got a reality check and realized he can't get away with saying anything he wants in order to protect his "individuality". If you are part of another vocal "we" then by all means, email the sponsors, tell them you like individuals using the word "gook" and they should sponsor more people like Destiny. Hell, you can even propose your own players saying "gook" to the sponsors if you think that will make the scene better and sponsors happy. you didn't answer my point, you don't realise how this sort of situation scares away interesting people from joining the scene
Do you not realize how condoning (and even trying to protect) visible members who use racial, homophobic, and gender-based slurs can scare away interesting people like minorities, women, gays, and older gamers? Do you not realize how that can scare corporate sponsors that don't want to end up on TV or even popular news media sites being shown to support such behavior? There is a reason that its not socially acceptable to use such words outside of this insular community.
|
On May 04 2012 17:05 MaestroSC wrote:
How did anyone on this thread get through high school.... o wait... a forum full of nerds who were bullied in highschool are now using their "internet power" to "fight back" HOLY SHIT IT ALL MAKES SENSE NOW.
Are you trying to say that since people may have been called 'gook' in high school, they should not have any problem with a public figure calling someone else a 'gook'?
And while you are being sarcastic about using 'internet power' to 'fight back,' I for one am actually proud of the community for standing up against the public use of racial slurs. This is a good use of power, and fighting for a good thing.
|
On May 04 2012 17:08 r4pture wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2012 17:06 Fueled wrote:Live in the real world please. I do live in the real world. If someone called someone else a racial slur in the workplace (in this case the Starcraft 2 ladder) they would be fired on the spot. Except in your example Blizzard is the employer. This is more like the crowd at a concert rushing the stage and attacking the singer/band. Its not acceptable.
except this industry is still new and still learning. Its still becoming professional. So yeah, now it is taking pressure from the community for these actions to happen. But sooner than later we will see teams take care of it themselves.
|
Do you guys that feel all full of pride right now realize that this shit you're doing is not some kind of game? This shit is actively affecting people's lives in very negative ways. It doesn't mean anything to you other than some missplaced sense of pride for having accomplished some goal but jesus, how the fuck do you guys not understand the repercussions of what you guys are doing? You aren't making the almighty esports more mainstream or more awesome by doing this, you're just shitting on people's lives because you can. I'm not sure what disgusts me more, the fact this community is so happy to jump on the bandwagon and witch hunt people into the ground or the fact you people feel proud of yourselves afterwards.
Those of you who feel all proud of yourselves for ridding the community of a "hateful" person need to go look in a mirror and realize, that person looking back at you? Sure, you might not say racist and taboo words but you are just as hateful. Get over yourself.
And no, I don't agree with the word choice that destiny or orb chose to use, I just don't consider either to be a big enough deal to try and ruin someone's life over it.
|
On May 04 2012 16:57 motbob wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2012 16:55 SimDawg wrote:On May 04 2012 16:51 motbob wrote:On May 04 2012 16:50 TheDraken wrote:On May 04 2012 16:44 DystopiaX wrote:On May 04 2012 16:41 Dodgin wrote:
I'm starting to see a pattern here.
For better or for worse things are changing around sc2 and how the teams/community functions compared to a year ago or even less than that.
Oh well I'll always have the GSL/OSL/PL even if the foreign sc2 scene nukes itself into oblivion. I fail to see how getting the community to act more professionally will "nuke" it. the community is driven by its character, and trying to make it "professional" in this way will strip the life out of it. this is a videogame. we are videogamers. we should expect people to act like a videogamer, not some pompous golfer. What does that mean, exactly, to "act like a videogamer?" Is using the word "gook" "acting like a videogamer?" How can you deny there's a culture around gaming that includes offensive words, raging, and general internet based angst? And there's an argument for preserving that, at least IMO. The better point is...we are gamers, Destiny is a professional, and there needs to be a line there. Can you make an argument for preserving a culture that includes using words like "nigger" and "gook?" I'm interested to hear it.
I've read a lot about this recently, so be aware my opinions are tinged with recent articles floating around in my head.
The culture around games is based on exclusivity. In the same way SC:BW fans reveled in their indie community that "understood", gamers as a larger group are proud to be gamers. It's nice to be one of the ones that "gets it." And I think this has grown up from us, in large part, having to defend ourselves from the outside. However instead of having gaming be a thing that is looked down upon, we've begun to wear it like a badge of honor.
Language is one of those things that keeps gaming exclusive. People who know Destiny, Orb, or Katu all know they're not racist. They use that language as a gamer would. It keeps people who don't "get it" out of our games. And I love the fact that it does. People who understand us as gamers can take those insults, just like all of us can over a ladder game or over Mumble or TS3, and not be effected by them.
As SC2 becomes more mainstream, the professionals, and the people that present themselves to the world need to clean up their act, and present themselves as true businessmen. The rest of us can still have our exclusive culture of gaming that takes place as the people that play games, and revel in the exclusivity.
The people that watch games, they can have their professionalism.
Frankly there's no other way for this to shake out, it will just take a certain amount of time for people to realize it.
|
On May 04 2012 16:40 NrGmonk wrote:
Going to respond to my comments about me in the OP. This is actually my 2nd post on reddit and I only got on because someone told me my PM was presented. I used the word "retard" more because I was ignorant of its offensive nature than because I wanted to offend anyone. I'll be more careful not to use such language in the future and I apologize if I offended anyone.. I was also directing one of Destiny's supporters in PRIVATE message to where he could air his grievances, which explains where the screenshot came from.
LOL that apology was so spineless.
The SC2 community is turning into a bunch of fucking communist era Germans who are terrified to say anything because somebody will report them to the Stasi.
|
On May 04 2012 17:06 TheDraken wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2012 16:53 DystopiaX wrote:On May 04 2012 16:50 TheDraken wrote:On May 04 2012 16:44 DystopiaX wrote:On May 04 2012 16:41 Dodgin wrote:
I'm starting to see a pattern here.
For better or for worse things are changing around sc2 and how the teams/community functions compared to a year ago or even less than that.
Oh well I'll always have the GSL/OSL/PL even if the foreign sc2 scene nukes itself into oblivion. I fail to see how getting the community to act more professionally will "nuke" it. the community is driven by its character, and trying to make it "professional" in this way will strip the life out of it. this is a videogame. we are videogamers. we should expect people to act like a videogamer, not some pompous golfer. I'm a gamer. All my friends are gamers. I don't know any one of them that uses words like "gook", "nigger", or "Chink". And there's a difference between someone gaming on their own and a professional- and to those who claim he's just a streamer in private, that's what he's best known for, and he's representing a professional gaming team. If he isn't one, then he shouldn't be on one. I'm sure tons of people playing Basketball for fun use homophobic slurs, but if an NBA player did he would get his ass fined and maybe a suspension. If you're a public figure, you're held to a different standard .Simple as that. well i'm glad you think you and your friends are the scope of the situation. unfortunately for you there's a bigger world outside that DOES include nigger gook and chink in it. there are people out there that realize words are just words. honestly, i thought the whole sticks and stones thing was something people learned when they were like 5. this isn't basketball. it never will be. people trying to turn starcraft into something that will be shown on ESPN and watched by millions of people have their heads in the clouds. people need to realize that this is just a videogame, and that "pros" are just people really good at a videogame. people engage in this stuff to relax and unwind... the last thing we need is a tight-collar corporate mentality plaguing this community.
Well I know when I'm trying to relax and unwind, I really appreciate it when people start throwing racial slurs at me! This community is just so welcoming, how could I not feel at ease?
If we want this to be a place where everyone can relax, the last thing we need is people calling each other gooks on the ladder. Once we get rid of that, then let's make sure we don't all start wearing suits.
oh, that being said... go talk to some sponsors and let them know how much you love them. If you are emailing sponsors telling them to stop supporting destiny/others, you really better be making sure they know how appreciated they are, both by buying their shit and letting them know that all of their marketing dollars are making an impact on you
|
never watched his streams, but its unfortunate that people feel like they had to go to sponsors and hurt the team instead of going to quantic and wanting a statement from them.
|
The moralistic elitism in this community is sickening.
|
Didn't a moderator stated in the other Thread that they wont do something like this?
|
On May 04 2012 17:02 acerockolla wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2012 16:55 SimDawg wrote:On May 04 2012 16:51 motbob wrote:On May 04 2012 16:50 TheDraken wrote:On May 04 2012 16:44 DystopiaX wrote:On May 04 2012 16:41 Dodgin wrote:
I'm starting to see a pattern here.
For better or for worse things are changing around sc2 and how the teams/community functions compared to a year ago or even less than that.
Oh well I'll always have the GSL/OSL/PL even if the foreign sc2 scene nukes itself into oblivion. I fail to see how getting the community to act more professionally will "nuke" it. the community is driven by its character, and trying to make it "professional" in this way will strip the life out of it. this is a videogame. we are videogamers. we should expect people to act like a videogamer, not some pompous golfer. What does that mean, exactly, to "act like a videogamer?" Is using the word "gook" "acting like a videogamer?" How can you deny there's a culture around gaming that includes offensive words, raging, and general internet based angst? And there's an argument for preserving that, at least IMO. The better point is...we are gamers, Destiny is a professional, and there needs to be a line there. The other thing we need to keep in mind is that he's a professional GAMER. Professional athletes aren't held to these standards and continue to make fools of themselves all the time. It's part of the draw. With that said, I understand sponsors not wanting to associate with such things. Other sports draw money from the actual events without having to rely solely on sponsors. Until we get to such a point, we'll have to endure all this fake outrage of sponsors dealing with issues they don't really care about. Keep in mind, I'm referring to sponsors here. I realize some take offense to what Destiny does/says.
And they are fined hundreds of thousands of dollars for it.
Good on you Destiny. This was a good move.
|
On May 04 2012 16:57 motbob wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2012 16:55 SimDawg wrote:On May 04 2012 16:51 motbob wrote:On May 04 2012 16:50 TheDraken wrote:On May 04 2012 16:44 DystopiaX wrote:On May 04 2012 16:41 Dodgin wrote:
I'm starting to see a pattern here.
For better or for worse things are changing around sc2 and how the teams/community functions compared to a year ago or even less than that.
Oh well I'll always have the GSL/OSL/PL even if the foreign sc2 scene nukes itself into oblivion. I fail to see how getting the community to act more professionally will "nuke" it. the community is driven by its character, and trying to make it "professional" in this way will strip the life out of it. this is a videogame. we are videogamers. we should expect people to act like a videogamer, not some pompous golfer. What does that mean, exactly, to "act like a videogamer?" Is using the word "gook" "acting like a videogamer?" How can you deny there's a culture around gaming that includes offensive words, raging, and general internet based angst? And there's an argument for preserving that, at least IMO. The better point is...we are gamers, Destiny is a professional, and there needs to be a line there. Can you make an argument for preserving a culture that includes using words like "nigger" and "gook?" I'm interested to hear it.
desensitization.
|
On May 04 2012 17:06 TheDraken wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2012 16:53 DystopiaX wrote:On May 04 2012 16:50 TheDraken wrote:On May 04 2012 16:44 DystopiaX wrote:On May 04 2012 16:41 Dodgin wrote:
I'm starting to see a pattern here.
For better or for worse things are changing around sc2 and how the teams/community functions compared to a year ago or even less than that.
Oh well I'll always have the GSL/OSL/PL even if the foreign sc2 scene nukes itself into oblivion. I fail to see how getting the community to act more professionally will "nuke" it. the community is driven by its character, and trying to make it "professional" in this way will strip the life out of it. this is a videogame. we are videogamers. we should expect people to act like a videogamer, not some pompous golfer. I'm a gamer. All my friends are gamers. I don't know any one of them that uses words like "gook", "nigger", or "Chink". And there's a difference between someone gaming on their own and a professional- and to those who claim he's just a streamer in private, that's what he's best known for, and he's representing a professional gaming team. If he isn't one, then he shouldn't be on one. I'm sure tons of people playing Basketball for fun use homophobic slurs, but if an NBA player did he would get his ass fined and maybe a suspension. If you're a public figure, you're held to a different standard .Simple as that. well i'm glad you think you and your friends are the scope of the situation. unfortunately for you there's a bigger world outside that DOES include nigger gook and chink in it. there are people out there that realize words are just words. honestly, i thought the whole sticks and stones thing was something people learned when they were like 5. the whole "protection of the public" argument really only comes into play when people don't have a choice if they hear those words or not. but people have a choice, and yet they still want to shit on destiny. this isn't basketball. it never will be. people trying to turn starcraft into something that will be shown on ESPN and watched by millions of people have their heads in the clouds. people need to realize that this is just a videogame, and that "pros" are just people really good at a videogame. people engage in this stuff to relax and unwind... the last thing we need is a tight-collar corporate mentality plaguing this community.
Ok, I'm sick of this bull shit excuse that words are just words. If you are going to say this, then why are you using "nigger" and "gook" as an insult? Because you know exactly what those words mean and where they come from. You are using them in a derogatory fashion, the same way that those words are used by a racist.
You know damn well that you are being insulting with those words. You can't sit there and say words are words and you aren't using them as a racist, when you use them to put the person down the same way racists do.
|
I personally think this is for the best seeing as Destiny isn't willing to drop the racial stuff. I mean from interviews and other stuff(not directly ingame) he does seem like a nice enough guy, but throwing stuff out there with no real care of how this effects the surroundings(the team, the scene etc)... Well imo it isn't acceptable. Obviously imo the best solution would've been that he just stopped that stuff, it's quite unnecesary as he isn't actually using the words in a racial context but rather just as filler word instead of "generally accepted" curse words.
|
On May 04 2012 17:09 jnsjr wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2012 17:04 mememolly wrote:On May 04 2012 17:00 papaz wrote:On May 04 2012 16:53 mememolly wrote:On May 04 2012 16:51 imMUTAble787 wrote:On May 04 2012 16:47 mememolly wrote:On May 04 2012 16:40 BakedButters wrote:
I will gladly continue to express my dislike of Destiny, as per his own rant. Your insensitive attitude towards the community, unprofessional manner/behavior, does not encourage the growth of e-sports.
I don't know why you think your the shit, but in the end, it's performance results, sportsmanlike attitude (arrogant or humble), hard work, that makes you respected in this community and sport.
Sure you might have fans now because your a US foreigner, but in the end your crappy attitude will bite you back, and you will become irrelevant, if you don't change you know you didn't have to watch his stream right? stop trying to police the world to your standards seems more like the community policed an individual to the community's standards. maybe one day you'll understand this individual's opinion represents a sizeable percentage of the people on this site. lolol so we should just let the mob decide everything for us and allow no individuality in the scene? thanks lolol Funny you should use the word "we". The vocal "we" just spoke its mind and as a result the clown Destiny got a reality check and realized he can't get away with saying anything he wants in order to protect his "individuality". If you are part of another vocal "we" then by all means, email the sponsors, tell them you like individuals using the word "gook" and they should sponsor more people like Destiny. Hell, you can even propose your own players saying "gook" to the sponsors if you think that will make the scene better and sponsors happy. you didn't answer my point, you don't realise how this sort of situation scares away interesting people from joining the scene Do you not realize how condoning (and even trying to protect) visible members who use racial, homophobic, and gender-based slurs can scare away interesting people like minorities, women, gays, and older gamers? Do you not realize how that can scare corporate sponsors that don't want to end up on TV or even popular news media sites being shown to support such behavior? There is a reason that its not socially acceptable to use such words outside of this insular community.
the sponsors won't come if the scene is bland and has no emotional element, the media/sponsors love drama and characters, mainstream sponsors and TV will view this scene as incredibly sensitive and won't touch it as it could backfire in their face if they make a wrong move
|
United States8477 Posts
On May 04 2012 17:12 Myrkskog wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2012 16:40 NrGmonk wrote:
Going to respond to my comments about me in the OP. This is actually my 2nd post on reddit and I only got on because someone told me my PM was presented. I used the word "retard" more because I was ignorant of its offensive nature than because I wanted to offend anyone. I'll be more careful not to use such language in the future and I apologize if I offended anyone.. I was also directing one of Destiny's supporters in PRIVATE message to where he could air his grievances, which explains where the screenshot came from. LOL that apology was so spineless. The SC2 community is turning into a bunch of fucking communist era Germans who are terrified to say anything because somebody will report them to the Stasi.
Nah, if you know me or check my posts, you'll know that's how I actually post.
|
wait what...... lol so people are now just raising the flag and leading the whambulance charge? Where were these cowards when he originally joined Quantic? Hah this stuff is too funny for this to just happen now and people lead a charge against him. Time to grab some pop corn and watch to see who can ruin who first in the community :D
|
On May 04 2012 17:05 MaestroSC wrote:
How did anyone on this thread get through high school.... o wait... a forum full of nerds who were bullied in highschool are now using their "internet power" to "fight back" HOLY SHIT IT ALL MAKES SENSE NOW.
User was temp banned for this post.
because we should strive for the pro sc2 scene to be like high school...
|
I cannot believe the overreactions happening here...people are getting so wound up over, ultimately, words. Words. Actually, word singular. Something that slipped out in a moment of rage, and was not backed by any harmful action whatsoever.
See, that's the thing. Words only hurt people who allow themselves to be hurt by them. Remember when "nerd" was a pejorative in 4th grade? We didn't let it bother us, and we didn't get hurt by it. Words are only different if we let them be. Calling someone a bitch could be considered just as sexist as "gook" is racist...but it's not, because we haven't built it up into a huge deal, and as a result it's not a weapon in the arsenal of those who truly are sexist. By reacting so strongly to it, we are in fact reinforcing the strength of whatever racist term du jour is up for debate. If everyone just ignores it, it loses both its offensiveness and shock power.
To those who e-mailed sponsors: that was foolish. E-mailing sponsors doesn't result in damage to Destiny. It damages the entire scene eventually. A company is far more likely to simply stay away from SC2 altogether than they are to get involved in the debates over which players are "acceptable" to some percentage of the community.
|
On May 04 2012 17:12 huameng wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2012 17:06 TheDraken wrote:On May 04 2012 16:53 DystopiaX wrote:On May 04 2012 16:50 TheDraken wrote:On May 04 2012 16:44 DystopiaX wrote:On May 04 2012 16:41 Dodgin wrote:
I'm starting to see a pattern here.
For better or for worse things are changing around sc2 and how the teams/community functions compared to a year ago or even less than that.
Oh well I'll always have the GSL/OSL/PL even if the foreign sc2 scene nukes itself into oblivion. I fail to see how getting the community to act more professionally will "nuke" it. the community is driven by its character, and trying to make it "professional" in this way will strip the life out of it. this is a videogame. we are videogamers. we should expect people to act like a videogamer, not some pompous golfer. I'm a gamer. All my friends are gamers. I don't know any one of them that uses words like "gook", "nigger", or "Chink". And there's a difference between someone gaming on their own and a professional- and to those who claim he's just a streamer in private, that's what he's best known for, and he's representing a professional gaming team. If he isn't one, then he shouldn't be on one. I'm sure tons of people playing Basketball for fun use homophobic slurs, but if an NBA player did he would get his ass fined and maybe a suspension. If you're a public figure, you're held to a different standard .Simple as that. well i'm glad you think you and your friends are the scope of the situation. unfortunately for you there's a bigger world outside that DOES include nigger gook and chink in it. there are people out there that realize words are just words. honestly, i thought the whole sticks and stones thing was something people learned when they were like 5. this isn't basketball. it never will be. people trying to turn starcraft into something that will be shown on ESPN and watched by millions of people have their heads in the clouds. people need to realize that this is just a videogame, and that "pros" are just people really good at a videogame. people engage in this stuff to relax and unwind... the last thing we need is a tight-collar corporate mentality plaguing this community. Well I know when I'm trying to relax and unwind, I really appreciate it when people start throwing racial slurs at me! This community is just so welcoming, how could I not feel at ease? If we want this to be a place where everyone can relax, the last thing we need is people calling each other gooks on the ladder. Once we get rid of that, then let's make sure we don't all start wearing suits. oh, that being said... go talk to some sponsors and let them know how much you love them. If you are emailing sponsors telling them to stop supporting destiny/others, you really better be making sure they know how appreciated they are, both by buying their shit and letting them know that all of their marketing dollars are making an impact on you
videogame culture is known for rowdy behavior.
if your idea of relaxation isn't getting to freely rage every once in a while, then don't relax with videogames. simple.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
