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Keep this civil, guys |
I don't see how this is so hard for people to get.
If you say you're going to kill someone and you are serious, that's a death threat.
If you intentionally use a racist word to insult a person of that ethnicity, then you are being racist.
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I find hilarious the part where he says haters keep on hating?
It reminds me of that south park episode where they start smelling their own farts, this dude has his head way up his ass. Kespa cant come soon enough.
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Did anyone stop to think that maybe someone somewhere decided a chidlish angry "father" who makes his income from sitting around talking shit all day, Doesn't actually deserve a sponsorship deal from companys such as razor,
I know if i knew it would have happend sooner i would have wrote the complaints myself.
At least he did something decent and stepped down, although thats possibility a publicity stunt to limit the damage hes already did to quantic gaming
Hope the company recovers fully and doesn't go down this dark path to try and win some of destinys viewer numbers.
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On May 05 2012 11:19 Chocobo wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2012 09:08 genius_man16 wrote:On May 05 2012 07:42 Bulldog654 wrote:On May 05 2012 07:40 genius_man16 wrote:
I have yet to understand how this community absolutely LOVES E-Sports and wants it to go mainstream and yet when something like this happens people get upset?
If you want E-sports to go mainstream, then Destiny using racial slurs needs to stop ASAP. We as a community cannot 'go mainstream' if we continue to embrace people like Destiny when he is quite honestly a giant bigot. He can whine all he wants about "free speech" and how he doesn't use the n-word to offend anyone, but the fact is that the n-word is simply one of, if not THE most offensive word in the english language and you CANNOT use it and pretend like people who are offended by it are stupid.
Perhaps you err in assuming that the whole of the "community" even wants it to go mainstream. Perhaps, however it seems to be a vast majority sentiment, so I feel that my point still stands. On May 05 2012 07:51 MercilessMonkey wrote:On May 05 2012 07:44 Holytornados wrote:On May 05 2012 07:26 StarStrider wrote:On May 05 2012 07:24 dAPhREAk wrote:On May 05 2012 07:22 StarStrider wrote:We should have another TL poll like the one in "DJ Wheat saying Bitches" thread. I'm interested in just how many people there are on each side of this issue. + Show Spoiler +Poll: Is offensive/racial language a teamkick / TL-ban-worthy offense?It doesn't matter, it's not a big deal, people should just get over it and stop watching his strea (64) 43% Yes. Get that out of my esports. It is a blight to the professionalism of the scene. (51) 34% Only if he refuses to apologize and refrain from it in the future. (Warning) (18) 12% Language is what you make it. I should be able to say anything without you getting offended. (14) 9% Only if sponsors are on the line. Otherwise it doesn't matter. (2) 1% 149 total votes Your vote: Is offensive/racial language a teamkick / TL-ban-worthy offense? (Vote): Yes. Get that out of my esports. It is a blight to the professionalism of the scene.
(Vote): Only if sponsors are on the line. Otherwise it doesn't matter.
(Vote): Only if he refuses to apologize and refrain from it in the future. (Warning)
(Vote): It doesn't matter, it's not a big deal, people should just get over it and stop watching his strea
(Vote): Language is what you make it. I should be able to say anything without you getting offended.
what is offensive/racial language? Cunt, Nigger, Kike, Faggot, etc. I don't really see how cunt is offensive, and I've never personally heard the word Kike ever. Some feminists would tell you that cunt is the most offensive word you can use. Kike is a racist slur for asians? Idk, I never really see it used. On May 05 2012 07:40 Dante_A_ wrote:
I believe you should act online the way you would act in real life. As people have noted, it seems unlikely that Destiny (or others) would use such offensive language in real life. Why is it suddenly OK just because its online and "just a game"?
Pickup basketball is also just a game, yet it would be a pretty big offense to use these words to strangers on a basketball court.
Acting in a brazen and offensive manner online just because you can avoid the repercussions that would follow in real life is no excuse to do it. I don't disagree, I don't think it's necessarily "ok" to act like a dick on the internet when you wouldn't in real life. However, let's follow through with your analogy. If I called you a racist slur on the basketball court, which of the following is more likely: A) You tell me to go fuck myself, and don't play basketball with me anymore B) Go complain to my boss and try to get me fired I think it's pretty obvious the difference between the two. Not many people are saying that it's great for Destiny to be rude and offensive, but rather the reaction which resulted was unwarranted considering the other options. People who don't like his stream can just not watch it. I don't even watch his stream. But it's not like he did it at a tournament or live event or anything of the sort. Your two examples don't really fully explain the Destiny situation. If we are going to use the basketball example, "B" would be valid because you would be playing a basketball game as a representative of your company, so it would be justifiable for the person to go to your boss if you called him the n-word during said basketball game. What world do you live in? Are you six years old? If someone called you a racial slur, you'd go "tell on him" to his boss and try to get him fired? I'm so disappointed in the TL community, I really didn't think things had fallen this far. I might just use this site for nothing more than stream monitoring from now on... this place has turned into the Christian Moms' Morality Police club.
Yes if a colleague at work called me a nigger I'd go straight to our boss about it.
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On May 05 2012 12:02 Leth0 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2012 11:58 ETisME wrote:On May 05 2012 11:50 Defacer wrote:On May 05 2012 11:42 ETisME wrote:
Ray Charles, the one that dominated 60s pop, country etc music was known to take drugs and have multiple affairs.
Did it stop the grow of the music genre? No, it exploded
Are you suggesting drug usage and cheating are better than non personal targeting racist slur?
I sure hope you find music is globally awesome Bro, Ray Charles was a brilliant, gifted savant musician that brought R'n'B into the mainstream. Destiny is a masters-to-GM SC2 player that survives off people watching him troll other players on the internet. He's about as significant to his field as a funny bartender is to the food industry. Trust me guys, WE'LL SURVIVE THIS!!!!!! So then are you saying that if Destiny was ray charles of SC2, then his bad doings are ok, even if it is not socially acceptable? I don't see people saying "he isn't good enough so he cannot use racist slur/take drugs" I see people saying Destiny is bad for the scene because he is a figure head (which ray charles is even a bigger one in the world) and yet one is considered to be ok? It's just this logic that really confuses me You lost me at Ray Charles.
OK I will be as simple as I can:
What people are saying is that if a figurehead do something bad consistently such as spuring racist slur, that would stop esport grow.
Then now insert 'any great figurehead that is bigger than Destiny in their own respective scene but has done something wrong in their own private time' such as 'ray charles with his drug usage in music" or here:
http://www.thecyn.com/blog/21-actors-who-died-of-drug-or-alcohol-overdoses/
list of actors who died from drug/alcohol overdose.
The main thing is, these bad doings didn't stop the scene growing, it was only until the scene is better developed and bigger that the Law kicks in and starts to hunt down the drug taker.
Not to mention there are still actors/singers known to do drugs and the scene is still pretty lively and growing. (and I am sure they are much bigger figurehead than destiny)
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On May 05 2012 11:10 Shiori wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2012 10:57 genius_man16 wrote:On May 05 2012 09:28 HikariPrime wrote:On May 05 2012 09:24 Detwiler wrote:
This community continues to amaze me. Do people even think before they post? The defenders of destiny do you hear yourselves? Man whats this scene doming to when players cant call people niggers and gooks in public god i cant believe this shit im leaving! The fuck how old are you? Where are you from that its acceptable for a brand representative to say these things in public huh? 16, living in United States of America with the constitution to protect me and my rights to free speech and the context of how i use said speech. Unless you know, you have people who deliberately go out of there way to find a hate crime ( that doesnt actually exist (oh noes he used a bad word ) in this situation ) and for a moderation team to get butt hurt cause white guys getting mad at him "offending" asians. ( btw im asian ) So it's fine to say anything you want regardless of who your employers are? One thing you seem to forget is Destiny is (or was I guess) representing both the Quantic organization and all of it's sponsors. It would be akin to Tom Brady going to an interview and calling all the media giant n-words. You somehow expect him to just be like "free speech" and/or "i'm not racist!" and everyone will totally not care that he used the N-word? I hope you grow up and go to job interviews and use the n-word and expect them to not care because you tell them "oh it's okay I'm not really racist." Context is everything. On May 05 2012 09:35 MercilessMonkey wrote:On May 05 2012 09:08 genius_man16 wrote:On May 05 2012 07:42 Bulldog654 wrote:On May 05 2012 07:40 genius_man16 wrote:
I have yet to understand how this community absolutely LOVES E-Sports and wants it to go mainstream and yet when something like this happens people get upset?
If you want E-sports to go mainstream, then Destiny using racial slurs needs to stop ASAP. We as a community cannot 'go mainstream' if we continue to embrace people like Destiny when he is quite honestly a giant bigot. He can whine all he wants about "free speech" and how he doesn't use the n-word to offend anyone, but the fact is that the n-word is simply one of, if not THE most offensive word in the english language and you CANNOT use it and pretend like people who are offended by it are stupid.
Perhaps you err in assuming that the whole of the "community" even wants it to go mainstream. Perhaps, however it seems to be a vast majority sentiment, so I feel that my point still stands. On May 05 2012 07:51 MercilessMonkey wrote:On May 05 2012 07:44 Holytornados wrote:On May 05 2012 07:26 StarStrider wrote:On May 05 2012 07:24 dAPhREAk wrote:On May 05 2012 07:22 StarStrider wrote:We should have another TL poll like the one in "DJ Wheat saying Bitches" thread. I'm interested in just how many people there are on each side of this issue. + Show Spoiler +Poll: Is offensive/racial language a teamkick / TL-ban-worthy offense?It doesn't matter, it's not a big deal, people should just get over it and stop watching his strea (64) 43% Yes. Get that out of my esports. It is a blight to the professionalism of the scene. (51) 34% Only if he refuses to apologize and refrain from it in the future. (Warning) (18) 12% Language is what you make it. I should be able to say anything without you getting offended. (14) 9% Only if sponsors are on the line. Otherwise it doesn't matter. (2) 1% 149 total votes Your vote: Is offensive/racial language a teamkick / TL-ban-worthy offense? (Vote): Yes. Get that out of my esports. It is a blight to the professionalism of the scene.
(Vote): Only if sponsors are on the line. Otherwise it doesn't matter.
(Vote): Only if he refuses to apologize and refrain from it in the future. (Warning)
(Vote): It doesn't matter, it's not a big deal, people should just get over it and stop watching his strea
(Vote): Language is what you make it. I should be able to say anything without you getting offended.
what is offensive/racial language? Cunt, Nigger, Kike, Faggot, etc. I don't really see how cunt is offensive, and I've never personally heard the word Kike ever. Some feminists would tell you that cunt is the most offensive word you can use. Kike is a racist slur for asians? Idk, I never really see it used. On May 05 2012 07:40 Dante_A_ wrote:
I believe you should act online the way you would act in real life. As people have noted, it seems unlikely that Destiny (or others) would use such offensive language in real life. Why is it suddenly OK just because its online and "just a game"?
Pickup basketball is also just a game, yet it would be a pretty big offense to use these words to strangers on a basketball court.
Acting in a brazen and offensive manner online just because you can avoid the repercussions that would follow in real life is no excuse to do it. I don't disagree, I don't think it's necessarily "ok" to act like a dick on the internet when you wouldn't in real life. However, let's follow through with your analogy. If I called you a racist slur on the basketball court, which of the following is more likely: A) You tell me to go fuck myself, and don't play basketball with me anymore B) Go complain to my boss and try to get me fired I think it's pretty obvious the difference between the two. Not many people are saying that it's great for Destiny to be rude and offensive, but rather the reaction which resulted was unwarranted considering the other options. People who don't like his stream can just not watch it. I don't even watch his stream. But it's not like he did it at a tournament or live event or anything of the sort. Your two examples don't really fully explain the Destiny situation. If we are going to use the basketball example, "B" would be valid because you would be playing a basketball game as a representative of your company, so it would be justifiable for the person to go to your boss if you called him the n-word during said basketball game. Wasn't my basketball analogy, I was just drawing his out to its conclusion. Even so, I disagree with you. If I and another employee of my company were playing basketball, I think my point stands. I could call him whatever I wanted outside of work, and there would be no business to involve the company at all. Whether or not Destiny's steam is private enough is a different story, which is why I don't think the basketball game was a good analogy in the first place. But if it's being used, I stand behind what I said. Anyone I worked with couldn't go to my boss and say I called them a mean word outside of work. Okay, that's fair. I guess i was imagining that it was a company sponsored basketball game against another company, so as to make the game less private and more of an analogy to the Destiny game, however your point is well taken. On May 05 2012 10:21 Unidus wrote:
All this would have been avoided if people in this world would stop being so sensitive towards certain words. People will keep using the words as long as people get mad when you say them. Get over it. Everyone uses the N word, the G word, Fa word, W word, and so on. You are lying if you say you don't. They are just words.
I have used every word in the book when raging at people online. There is no racial, sexist, homophobic hatred meant when I do use the words. I use whatever I think will piss the guy off the most and the above words seem to do the job. Again get over it and stop overreacting and going OMG HE SAID and you won't see the words used as much anymore. One thing you should learn is that as soon as you use absolutes in your speech, you lose all credibility. To be specific: No, actually, not EVERYONE uses the N, G, Fa, or W word. I, in fact, have never used the N word, and stopped using the G and Fa word when I was 16 and learned about how it affected other people in my sociology class. If the "W" word is "whore" then I will admit I use it around my male friends but never in the presence of a female, regardless of how close a friend they are. So before you start pretending everyone is the same as you, maybe you should be less of an idiot and realize everyone is different and there are TONS of people that don't use those words and feel that the use of those words is a VERY bad thing. On May 05 2012 10:32 BeeNu wrote:
The only people who can't control their feelings are 12yr old girls going through puberty. Now lets not be sexist, 12yr old boys can't control their feelings either.  Just saying, but neither the word "faggot" nor the word "gay" necessarily originated as homophobic slurs. You can't make the argument against them that you can make against 'nigger' (i.e. that it exists for the sole purpose of demonizing a race). Both "gay" and "faggot" have rather well-established secondary meanings that are actually rather conducive to insults. Perhaps that's why people aren't complaining about them as much.
No people don't complain about them much because its more socially exceptable to offend gay people than it is to offend black people. Don't try to justify it, no one even fucking knows the "original" definitions unless they looked them up. Everyone knows what you mean when you say faggot in an insulting context.
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On May 05 2012 12:08 IMABUNNEH wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2012 11:19 Chocobo wrote:On May 05 2012 09:08 genius_man16 wrote:On May 05 2012 07:42 Bulldog654 wrote:On May 05 2012 07:40 genius_man16 wrote:
I have yet to understand how this community absolutely LOVES E-Sports and wants it to go mainstream and yet when something like this happens people get upset?
If you want E-sports to go mainstream, then Destiny using racial slurs needs to stop ASAP. We as a community cannot 'go mainstream' if we continue to embrace people like Destiny when he is quite honestly a giant bigot. He can whine all he wants about "free speech" and how he doesn't use the n-word to offend anyone, but the fact is that the n-word is simply one of, if not THE most offensive word in the english language and you CANNOT use it and pretend like people who are offended by it are stupid.
Perhaps you err in assuming that the whole of the "community" even wants it to go mainstream. Perhaps, however it seems to be a vast majority sentiment, so I feel that my point still stands. On May 05 2012 07:51 MercilessMonkey wrote:On May 05 2012 07:44 Holytornados wrote:On May 05 2012 07:26 StarStrider wrote:On May 05 2012 07:24 dAPhREAk wrote:On May 05 2012 07:22 StarStrider wrote:We should have another TL poll like the one in "DJ Wheat saying Bitches" thread. I'm interested in just how many people there are on each side of this issue. + Show Spoiler +Poll: Is offensive/racial language a teamkick / TL-ban-worthy offense?It doesn't matter, it's not a big deal, people should just get over it and stop watching his strea (64) 43% Yes. Get that out of my esports. It is a blight to the professionalism of the scene. (51) 34% Only if he refuses to apologize and refrain from it in the future. (Warning) (18) 12% Language is what you make it. I should be able to say anything without you getting offended. (14) 9% Only if sponsors are on the line. Otherwise it doesn't matter. (2) 1% 149 total votes Your vote: Is offensive/racial language a teamkick / TL-ban-worthy offense? (Vote): Yes. Get that out of my esports. It is a blight to the professionalism of the scene.
(Vote): Only if sponsors are on the line. Otherwise it doesn't matter.
(Vote): Only if he refuses to apologize and refrain from it in the future. (Warning)
(Vote): It doesn't matter, it's not a big deal, people should just get over it and stop watching his strea
(Vote): Language is what you make it. I should be able to say anything without you getting offended.
what is offensive/racial language? Cunt, Nigger, Kike, Faggot, etc. I don't really see how cunt is offensive, and I've never personally heard the word Kike ever. Some feminists would tell you that cunt is the most offensive word you can use. Kike is a racist slur for asians? Idk, I never really see it used. On May 05 2012 07:40 Dante_A_ wrote:
I believe you should act online the way you would act in real life. As people have noted, it seems unlikely that Destiny (or others) would use such offensive language in real life. Why is it suddenly OK just because its online and "just a game"?
Pickup basketball is also just a game, yet it would be a pretty big offense to use these words to strangers on a basketball court.
Acting in a brazen and offensive manner online just because you can avoid the repercussions that would follow in real life is no excuse to do it. I don't disagree, I don't think it's necessarily "ok" to act like a dick on the internet when you wouldn't in real life. However, let's follow through with your analogy. If I called you a racist slur on the basketball court, which of the following is more likely: A) You tell me to go fuck myself, and don't play basketball with me anymore B) Go complain to my boss and try to get me fired I think it's pretty obvious the difference between the two. Not many people are saying that it's great for Destiny to be rude and offensive, but rather the reaction which resulted was unwarranted considering the other options. People who don't like his stream can just not watch it. I don't even watch his stream. But it's not like he did it at a tournament or live event or anything of the sort. Your two examples don't really fully explain the Destiny situation. If we are going to use the basketball example, "B" would be valid because you would be playing a basketball game as a representative of your company, so it would be justifiable for the person to go to your boss if you called him the n-word during said basketball game. What world do you live in? Are you six years old? If someone called you a racial slur, you'd go "tell on him" to his boss and try to get him fired? I'm so disappointed in the TL community, I really didn't think things had fallen this far. I might just use this site for nothing more than stream monitoring from now on... this place has turned into the Christian Moms' Morality Police club. Yes if a colleague at work called me a nigger I'd go straight to our boss about it.
If i was being racially abused at work i would also go to the boss about it... Thats like saying , so if someones robbing your house your going to ring the police?? erm yes i would thankyou!  "grass" comes to mind lol
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On May 05 2012 12:10 ETisME wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2012 12:02 Leth0 wrote:On May 05 2012 11:58 ETisME wrote:On May 05 2012 11:50 Defacer wrote:On May 05 2012 11:42 ETisME wrote:
Ray Charles, the one that dominated 60s pop, country etc music was known to take drugs and have multiple affairs.
Did it stop the grow of the music genre? No, it exploded
Are you suggesting drug usage and cheating are better than non personal targeting racist slur?
I sure hope you find music is globally awesome Bro, Ray Charles was a brilliant, gifted savant musician that brought R'n'B into the mainstream. Destiny is a masters-to-GM SC2 player that survives off people watching him troll other players on the internet. He's about as significant to his field as a funny bartender is to the food industry. Trust me guys, WE'LL SURVIVE THIS!!!!!! So then are you saying that if Destiny was ray charles of SC2, then his bad doings are ok, even if it is not socially acceptable? I don't see people saying "he isn't good enough so he cannot use racist slur/take drugs" I see people saying Destiny is bad for the scene because he is a figure head (which ray charles is even a bigger one in the world) and yet one is considered to be ok? It's just this logic that really confuses me You lost me at Ray Charles. OK I will be as simple as I can: What people are saying is that if a figurehead do something bad consistently such as spuring racist slur, that would stop esport grow. Then now insert 'any great figurehead that is bigger than Destiny in their own respective scene but has done something wrong in their own private time' such as 'ray charles with his drug usage in music" or here: http://www.thecyn.com/blog/21-actors-who-died-of-drug-or-alcohol-overdoses/list of actors who died from drug/alcohol overdose. The main thing is, these bad doings didn't stop the scene growing, it was only until the scene is better developed and bigger that the Law kicks in and starts to hunt down the drug taker. Not to mention there are still actors/singers known to do drugs and the scene is still pretty lively and growing. (and I am sure they are much bigger figurehead than destiny)
But, you lost me at ray charles
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On May 04 2012 15:46 tribulator wrote:As posted by Destiny on reddit: http://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/comments/t6i9v/destiny_and_quantic_parting_ways/Show nested quote +Grab your chairs, bros. I feel really bad that a semi-irrelevant player who streams a lot constantly shits up these boards with drama, but then I saw this as the first rated post and I didn't feel as bad. I've talked to Mark a lot over the past couple days, and we've come to the decision that it'd be best for both of our relationships for me to step aside from Quantic. I really appreciate the help/support from Quantic, and everyone on it, and everything they've done for me up to this point, but I feel like I've become more of a liability than an asset to them. I'm not about to release some hollow/empty apologies that mean nothing, and I can't even guarantee that I won't let any "bigot/racist/hateful/nazi/apocalyptic" speech cross my stream again. There were a few options on the table when we were discussing things, but all of the options left Quantic in a really rough position. The fact of the matter is, me leaving Quantic or forfeiting any sponsorship really doesn't hurt my income, or affect me, much at all. But it would be devastating to certain parts of Quantic if things continued down this road (and still might be, though there's not much that can be done at this point). I really appreciate everything they've done for me up to this point and I don't like to stay in some place where I feel like I'm hurting the environment around me too much, so I think it'd be easier for us to separate ties. I wish all of them the best, and hope to work with them in some ways in the future. For those that hate, continue hating, I love every second of it. For those that like to e-mail sponsors, good luck with your campaign, though it's sad that the only players you're hurting are those that don't stream and those that don't generate revenue outside of team salaries. And for those that support me, I appreciate all of you guys, too. And just for funs, if you think Razer's cleaning up the scene because they won't support teams who's members use racist/hateful/inflammatory speech, tell them they're doing a good job. Don't forget to mention all of the things some other players have said, like making fun of a kid who was sexually molested (ban number 11), or when teamliquid's own moderators use hate speech, because consistency is important! http://www.razersupport.com/index.php?_m=tickets&_a=submitOn the other hand, if you think they're spineless assholes who want to police bad words in a game where you're nuking/murdering/destroying other people, or games where the main character has to endure torture or murder innocent civilians (MW2), that's fine, too.  http://www.razersupport.com/index.php?_m=tickets&_a=submitAlso, since TL has me unlisted for 30 days, I will shamelessly plug my stream: http://www.own3d.tv/Destiny <3
Brownie points for destiny here, leaving for his teams image, and criticizing his enemies in a very non negative way. Almost brought back the fanship I used to have before the infestor nerf.
On May 04 2012 15:48 ch33psh33p wrote:
What a wonderfully toxic community.
This is an accurate response. I really am not proud of Teamliquid.
On May 04 2012 15:50 Forikorder wrote:
kinda sad to see it come to this at least i can take some solace in thinking maybe esports took a tiny little step towards more professionalism today but wish it could have made that step without Destiny having take a hit for it
I hope you understand how paradoxical that is. Really, the only realistic rule I can ever see implementing is not being BM in tournaments. Everything else is bullshit.
On May 05 2012 11:14 whiterabbit wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2012 11:08 Ballistixz wrote:
i just want to say that when the community does shit like what happened with orb and now destiny they are shooting themselves in there own foot multiple times. keep it up and the entire scene will die a very slow and painful death. To be honest scene won't move further anyway if we have prominent scene figures acting like racist and/or homophobes on daily basis. I also agree that if people are displeased by behavior should talk to teams and players first, but in this situation Quantic was well aware of Destiny and didn't do anything about it. Personally, I don't want the scene where acting like he does is globally accepted as "awesome". That's just me of course!
Okay dude you gotta accept here that the scene will move forward as long as no one does probegate or cusses people out in tournies. Your last sentence......personally I don't want a scene where people can't be themselves, and can't be appreciated for being themselves. This is a minor part of the scene.
On May 05 2012 11:17 RmoteCntrld wrote:
I love how Destiny tries to justify using racial slurs by saying the game is violent. Shows how truly clueless he is, sad really.
He's just drawing attention to the point that not allowing swearing in a violent video game is equatable to football teams advocating non-physical violence. He's not clueless, he has decided his position and I respect him for that. We need more people like him.
On May 05 2012 11:49 Splinta wrote:
He also thinks LoL > Dota2 lmfao
I didn't know this was the destiny bash thread, but thank you for exemplifying why destiny had to leave quantic.
On May 05 2012 11:58 BagelyBagels wrote:
We are truly living in a racist time and its time to embrace the situation at hand. I think as a community we need to report everyone for any type of BM to all sponsors even if there not on a team. This way they wont ever have sponsors or teams.
I believe IdrA is just terrible now do to the fact that he can't BM stylistically to his nature and that is what made him good. The results don't lie.
In conclusion the only way to solve our problems is to make a short 20-30 min video discussing the issue and spread the message to everyone we know. We then set a date to put up posters of Orb on every inch of our planet.
Ha. Ha.
I guess there are a few points to make.
1. Striking at the sponsors is equatable to telling someone to go use marines to get up a ramp that has 5 burrowed lurkers at the top of it. They insta-lose.
2. If you ever become a pro-gamer, or community figure, and make any racial comment you are putting your career at risk. This risk isn't time sensitive.
3. TL probably should like make a rule to not allow links to sponsor feedback...it would stop the lazy people who just happened to get a link.
4. The fact that the community bad talks destiny this much still is sad. In an ideal TL world everyone's response would be either
Although I may not like Destiny, I think it is sad that he had to face the hard consequences of being BM, which I do not condone.
This is indicative of community lashout against BM, unfair against destiny, although I am glad to see how he responded to this.
Then, we could discuss civilly. instead we have crap like this sitting around:
[spoiler]On May 05 2012 11:23 genius_man16 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2012 11:10 Shiori wrote:
Just saying, but neither the word "faggot" nor the word "gay" necessarily originated as homophobic slurs. You can't make the argument against them that you can make against 'nigger' (i.e. that it exists for the sole purpose of demonizing a race). Both "gay" and "faggot" have rather well-established secondary meanings that are actually rather conducive to insults. Perhaps that's why people aren't complaining about them as much. This is true, but it's pretty easy to determine that if I call someone a faggot or say something is gay, im not talking about the person being a bundle of sticks nor am I calling the thing happy. However I do understand your point. Show nested quote +On May 05 2012 11:06 Heavenlee wrote:On May 05 2012 10:57 genius_man16 wrote:
One thing you should learn is that as soon as you use absolutes in your speech, you lose all credibility. To be specific: No, actually, not EVERYONE uses the N, G, Fa, or W word. I, in fact, have never used the N word, and stopped using the G and Fa word when I was 16 and learned about how it affected other people in my sociology class. If the "W" word is "whore" then I will admit I use it around my male friends but never in the presence of a female, regardless of how close a friend they are.
So before you start pretending everyone is the same as you, maybe you should be less of an idiot and realize everyone is different and there are TONS of people that don't use those words and feel that the use of those words is a VERY bad thing. You are mindnumbingly condescending and hypocritical LOL (as am I, but I don't pretend to not be). Calling him an idiot for his opinion, saying "you should learn that as soon as you use absolutes in your speech, you lose all credibility" which is an absolute. Get off your high horse and stop pretending youre a white knight protecting those poor people being abused by these hateful words. You are doing nothing but making yourself squirm in delight about how noble you are. People who feel use of those words are a very bad thing are GENERALLY children who need to get off the computer and actually interact in society. Learning how it affects other people in your sophomore sociology class doesn't make you an expert on anything. Care to explain how "you should learn that as soon as you use absolutes in your speech, you lose all credibility" is an absolute? It's a fact. There is a difference, regardless of how similar the terms are. I also never pretended to be a 'white knight' protecting people who are 'being abused by these hateful words' I simply stated that I don't use them. If I was a white knight I would go to rallies or beat up people who call people faggots. I don't, however I do ask people to not call other people faggots or n-words around me in person. I guess if you count that as being a 'white knight' then so be it, but our definitions would be different. Also, if you believe that people who think using the N, G, and Fa words is very bad are generally children, then you live in a vastly different society than I do and would probably explain our difference of opinion. I don't know about you, but where I live you can't really go to the mall and call people faggots without people getting upset, but if you can then that's your societies problem (my opinion). Edit: Show nested quote +On May 05 2012 11:19 Chocobo wrote:On May 05 2012 09:08 genius_man16 wrote:On May 05 2012 07:42 Bulldog654 wrote:On May 05 2012 07:40 genius_man16 wrote:
I have yet to understand how this community absolutely LOVES E-Sports and wants it to go mainstream and yet when something like this happens people get upset?
If you want E-sports to go mainstream, then Destiny using racial slurs needs to stop ASAP. We as a community cannot 'go mainstream' if we continue to embrace people like Destiny when he is quite honestly a giant bigot. He can whine all he wants about "free speech" and how he doesn't use the n-word to offend anyone, but the fact is that the n-word is simply one of, if not THE most offensive word in the english language and you CANNOT use it and pretend like people who are offended by it are stupid.
Perhaps you err in assuming that the whole of the "community" even wants it to go mainstream. Perhaps, however it seems to be a vast majority sentiment, so I feel that my point still stands. On May 05 2012 07:51 MercilessMonkey wrote:On May 05 2012 07:44 Holytornados wrote:On May 05 2012 07:26 StarStrider wrote:On May 05 2012 07:24 dAPhREAk wrote:On May 05 2012 07:22 StarStrider wrote:We should have another TL poll like the one in "DJ Wheat saying Bitches" thread. I'm interested in just how many people there are on each side of this issue. + Show Spoiler +Poll: Is offensive/racial language a teamkick / TL-ban-worthy offense?It doesn't matter, it's not a big deal, people should just get over it and stop watching his strea (64) 43% Yes. Get that out of my esports. It is a blight to the professionalism of the scene. (51) 34% Only if he refuses to apologize and refrain from it in the future. (Warning) (18) 12% Language is what you make it. I should be able to say anything without you getting offended. (14) 9% Only if sponsors are on the line. Otherwise it doesn't matter. (2) 1% 149 total votes Your vote: Is offensive/racial language a teamkick / TL-ban-worthy offense? (Vote): Yes. Get that out of my esports. It is a blight to the professionalism of the scene.
(Vote): Only if sponsors are on the line. Otherwise it doesn't matter.
(Vote): Only if he refuses to apologize and refrain from it in the future. (Warning)
(Vote): It doesn't matter, it's not a big deal, people should just get over it and stop watching his strea
(Vote): Language is what you make it. I should be able to say anything without you getting offended.
what is offensive/racial language? Cunt, Nigger, Kike, Faggot, etc. I don't really see how cunt is offensive, and I've never personally heard the word Kike ever. Some feminists would tell you that cunt is the most offensive word you can use. Kike is a racist slur for asians? Idk, I never really see it used. On May 05 2012 07:40 Dante_A_ wrote:
I believe you should act online the way you would act in real life. As people have noted, it seems unlikely that Destiny (or others) would use such offensive language in real life. Why is it suddenly OK just because its online and "just a game"?
Pickup basketball is also just a game, yet it would be a pretty big offense to use these words to strangers on a basketball court.
Acting in a brazen and offensive manner online just because you can avoid the repercussions that would follow in real life is no excuse to do it. I don't disagree, I don't think it's necessarily "ok" to act like a dick on the internet when you wouldn't in real life. However, let's follow through with your analogy. If I called you a racist slur on the basketball court, which of the following is more likely: A) You tell me to go fuck myself, and don't play basketball with me anymore B) Go complain to my boss and try to get me fired I think it's pretty obvious the difference between the two. Not many people are saying that it's great for Destiny to be rude and offensive, but rather the reaction which resulted was unwarranted considering the other options. People who don't like his stream can just not watch it. I don't even watch his stream. But it's not like he did it at a tournament or live event or anything of the sort. Your two examples don't really fully explain the Destiny situation. If we are going to use the basketball example, "B" would be valid because you would be playing a basketball game as a representative of your company, so it would be justifiable for the person to go to your boss if you called him the n-word during said basketball game. What world do you live in? Are you six years old? If someone called you a racial slur, you'd go "tell on him" to his boss and try to get him fired? I'm so disappointed in the TL community, I really didn't think things had fallen this far. I might just use this site for nothing more than stream monitoring from now on... this place has turned into the Christian Moms' Morality Police club. If we are going to use the basketball analogy and make it as similar to the Destiny situation as possible then no; I would not 'tell on him' to his boss because the basketball game would be a public game with both of our bosses and our friends watching, and he would call me the n-word in front of everyone, so there would be no need to 'tell on him' to his boss, because it would have been in a public setting for other people to see. However as MercilessMonkey pointed out, the basketball analogy is fairly flawed for accurately depicting the type of privacy or lack thereof of Destiny's stream.
On May 05 2012 11:49 Splinta wrote:
He also thinks LoL > Dota2 lmfao
[/spoiler]
While we all would like to think the mods keep TL in shape, they are still influenced by the community. These arguments and criticisms above are condescending, and not productive. Note: Not everything in that spoiler is bad.
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I'm disappointed there are elements in our community that actively seek to undermine the scene by contacting sponsors to complain about an issue.
The Internet is often a volatile place, and things get said that you don't hear that much in real life. I'm sure every single barn burner ( First Orb and now Destiny ) gets a real kick out of being able to affect streamers they've watched and that are well known in the community... I'm just sad that their fun comes at expense to all of us.
We can never be taken seriously if we have such vile elements lurking around, trying to inflict damage on the popular people with any method they can.
Destiny, for example, has gotten DDOS'd by people looking to feel important and other streamers have probably had the same happen to them.
I'm not saying I agree with racist or hateful speech while raging about something, but I HIGHLY doubt anyone is making a fuss over the issue for anything else than because they CAN, and that is just a sad state of affairs.
I'd love it if people tried to grow some balls and take things with a grain of salt. Not everything that is said is meant to be taken literal, especially when people are expressing anger.
Our community will be smaller and weaker because of things like this, and that is where the real focus should be. Witch hunting is costing us sponsors and interest from the mainstream, since we are just proving ourselves to be offspring of the "vile internet".
PS : This hurts everyone, not just Quantic or Destiny.
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On May 05 2012 11:58 BagelyBagels wrote:
We are truly living in a racist time and its time to embrace the situation at hand. I think as a community we need to report everyone for any type of BM to all sponsors even if there not on a team. This way they wont ever have sponsors or teams.
I believe IdrA is just terrible now do to the fact that he can't BM stylistically to his nature and that is what made him good. The results don't lie.
In conclusion the only way to solve our problems is to make a short 20-30 min video discussing the issue and spread the message to everyone we know. We then set a date to put up posters of Orb on every inch of our planet.
is this post for real? you're trolling right?
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On May 05 2012 11:57 adrenaLinG wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2012 10:49 BeeNu wrote:On May 05 2012 10:46 Malgrif wrote:
all he does by being himself is hurt himself Sure, if by "hurt himself" you mean "refuses to bend to mob mentality". On May 05 2012 10:47 aebriol wrote:
I wonder how many people that are against Destiny, are against other entertainers that use terms that can be seen as offensive.
Like, oh, most any rappers ...
Or hell, anyone that use the word 'bitch'
Destiny ... is not a top level progamer first and foremost, he is an entertaining streamer, for an adult audience.
I don't see why there's not room for that in the sc2 community.
imo we are getting this problem because this community is filled with entitled little suburban kids craving power in any form they can find it in, I really, really doubt these folks give two damns about the ethical factors in any of this, they just see a way to fuck with a progamer and jump at the chance. "mob mentality"? Living in a society where people cannot throw racist language each other than people find offensive is part of a "mob"?
The reaction on these forums was a perfect example of mob mentality. Started out with a few people going "look what Destiny said", "what a dick", "ugh I hate that guy"... then more people joined the group and escalated the language. "He can't say stuff like that!" "That's so inappropriate, we have to do something about it!"
And then, the call to action. "I know, guys! Let's all spam Quantic and Razer with emails and try to get him fired! Let's fuck with the employment status of the guy we don't like!" "Yeah!" "Great idea, I'm doing it now!"
No one stopped to think if it was the appropriate thing to be doing. It was the standard angry mob mentality, escalating the negativity and then jumping into action without thinking things through.
If anything, the little entitled suburban kids are white knights like you rushing to defend destiny for calling everyone niggers because, well, you want to call everyone niggers.
Fuck this argument so much.
"If you don't support required Christian prayers in school, it's because you worship Satan and want to spread evil throughout the world!"
"If you don't agree with China censoring the internet, it's because you hate traditional Chinese values and you want to see them all replaced with Western consumerist capitalism!"
I mean... really? That's actually your argument? That's your well thought out explanation that supports your beliefs? "Anyone who values uncensored speech over political correctness just wants call people niggers!"
What a joke.
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so who should we put to the stake next? idra? dragon? lets just get everyone cut from their teams and sit on our thrones of judgement!
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On May 04 2012 15:53 ch33psh33p wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2012 15:52 Blackfoger wrote:On May 04 2012 15:48 ch33psh33p wrote:
What a wonderfully toxic community. How is it toxic. I believe that it was very just such as what happened with orb. Don Imus got fired basically doing the same thing. Players should be policed Its toxic because it put the entirety of Quantic at risk over one disagreement that happened on ladder. Now imagine if this trend continues, players will cease to have ANY personality for fear of saying ONE thing wrong, and having a bunch of children email their sponsors, tagging them as CRITICAL, and having their entire team suffer.
If personality means racial slurs then I think SC2 could do without it. I think we can have plenty of personality while still being professional
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On May 05 2012 11:58 ETisME wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2012 11:50 Defacer wrote:On May 05 2012 11:42 ETisME wrote:
Ray Charles, the one that dominated 60s pop, country etc music was known to take drugs and have multiple affairs.
Did it stop the grow of the music genre? No, it exploded
Are you suggesting drug usage and cheating are better than non personal targeting racist slur?
I sure hope you find music is globally awesome Bro, Ray Charles was a brilliant, gifted savant musician that brought R'n'B into the mainstream. Destiny is a masters-to-GM SC2 player that survives off people watching him troll other players on the internet. He's about as significant to his field as a funny bartender is to the food industry. Trust me guys, WE'LL SURVIVE THIS!!!!!! So then are you saying that if Destiny was ray charles of SC2, then his bad doings are ok, even if it is not socially acceptable? I don't see people saying "he isn't good enough so he cannot use racist slur/take drugs" I see people saying Destiny is bad for the scene because he is a figure head (which ray charles is even a bigger one in the world) and yet one is considered to be ok? It's just this logic that really confuses me
I'm simply saying that if Destiny is the Ray Charles, Michael Jordan, George Carlin, Stephen Hawking, Gene Kelley, Mark Zuckerberg or Amadeus Mozart of SC2, than maybe -- just maybe -- I would understand the argument that Destiny's employers or sponsors should be more tolerant of his behaviour.
Destiny is none of these things. He's not the Ray Charles of SC2. He's not even the Idra of SC2. He's a funny but mediocre individual that has to play by the same rules as the rest of society.
It's not fair, but that's the way the world works. Unless you are truly exceptional -- so much that the value you bring to your industry or field grossly outweighs your social shortcomings -- you would have to be delusional not to expect consequences for your behaviour.
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On May 05 2012 12:08 IMABUNNEH wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2012 11:19 Chocobo wrote:On May 05 2012 09:08 genius_man16 wrote:On May 05 2012 07:42 Bulldog654 wrote:On May 05 2012 07:40 genius_man16 wrote:
I have yet to understand how this community absolutely LOVES E-Sports and wants it to go mainstream and yet when something like this happens people get upset?
If you want E-sports to go mainstream, then Destiny using racial slurs needs to stop ASAP. We as a community cannot 'go mainstream' if we continue to embrace people like Destiny when he is quite honestly a giant bigot. He can whine all he wants about "free speech" and how he doesn't use the n-word to offend anyone, but the fact is that the n-word is simply one of, if not THE most offensive word in the english language and you CANNOT use it and pretend like people who are offended by it are stupid.
Perhaps you err in assuming that the whole of the "community" even wants it to go mainstream. Perhaps, however it seems to be a vast majority sentiment, so I feel that my point still stands. On May 05 2012 07:51 MercilessMonkey wrote:On May 05 2012 07:44 Holytornados wrote:On May 05 2012 07:26 StarStrider wrote:On May 05 2012 07:24 dAPhREAk wrote:On May 05 2012 07:22 StarStrider wrote:We should have another TL poll like the one in "DJ Wheat saying Bitches" thread. I'm interested in just how many people there are on each side of this issue. + Show Spoiler +Poll: Is offensive/racial language a teamkick / TL-ban-worthy offense?It doesn't matter, it's not a big deal, people should just get over it and stop watching his strea (64) 43% Yes. Get that out of my esports. It is a blight to the professionalism of the scene. (51) 34% Only if he refuses to apologize and refrain from it in the future. (Warning) (18) 12% Language is what you make it. I should be able to say anything without you getting offended. (14) 9% Only if sponsors are on the line. Otherwise it doesn't matter. (2) 1% 149 total votes Your vote: Is offensive/racial language a teamkick / TL-ban-worthy offense? (Vote): Yes. Get that out of my esports. It is a blight to the professionalism of the scene.
(Vote): Only if sponsors are on the line. Otherwise it doesn't matter.
(Vote): Only if he refuses to apologize and refrain from it in the future. (Warning)
(Vote): It doesn't matter, it's not a big deal, people should just get over it and stop watching his strea
(Vote): Language is what you make it. I should be able to say anything without you getting offended.
what is offensive/racial language? Cunt, Nigger, Kike, Faggot, etc. I don't really see how cunt is offensive, and I've never personally heard the word Kike ever. Some feminists would tell you that cunt is the most offensive word you can use. Kike is a racist slur for asians? Idk, I never really see it used. On May 05 2012 07:40 Dante_A_ wrote:
I believe you should act online the way you would act in real life. As people have noted, it seems unlikely that Destiny (or others) would use such offensive language in real life. Why is it suddenly OK just because its online and "just a game"?
Pickup basketball is also just a game, yet it would be a pretty big offense to use these words to strangers on a basketball court.
Acting in a brazen and offensive manner online just because you can avoid the repercussions that would follow in real life is no excuse to do it. I don't disagree, I don't think it's necessarily "ok" to act like a dick on the internet when you wouldn't in real life. However, let's follow through with your analogy. If I called you a racist slur on the basketball court, which of the following is more likely: A) You tell me to go fuck myself, and don't play basketball with me anymore B) Go complain to my boss and try to get me fired I think it's pretty obvious the difference between the two. Not many people are saying that it's great for Destiny to be rude and offensive, but rather the reaction which resulted was unwarranted considering the other options. People who don't like his stream can just not watch it. I don't even watch his stream. But it's not like he did it at a tournament or live event or anything of the sort. Your two examples don't really fully explain the Destiny situation. If we are going to use the basketball example, "B" would be valid because you would be playing a basketball game as a representative of your company, so it would be justifiable for the person to go to your boss if you called him the n-word during said basketball game. What world do you live in? Are you six years old? If someone called you a racial slur, you'd go "tell on him" to his boss and try to get him fired? I'm so disappointed in the TL community, I really didn't think things had fallen this far. I might just use this site for nothing more than stream monitoring from now on... this place has turned into the Christian Moms' Morality Police club. Yes if a colleague at work called me a nigger I'd go straight to our boss about it.
That's not the same situation at all.
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Sounds like somebody who doesn't care about the esports scene and still needs to grow up and realize how lucky that person is for doing nothing and making a ton of money. Grow up kid.
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MURICA15980 Posts
Edit: I'm staying clear of this.
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On May 05 2012 12:22 Klogon wrote:
Edit: I'm staying clear of this.
Dont be a bitch just say it
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EPT
