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Keep this civil, guys |
On May 05 2012 12:18 Defacer wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2012 11:58 ETisME wrote:On May 05 2012 11:50 Defacer wrote:On May 05 2012 11:42 ETisME wrote:
Ray Charles, the one that dominated 60s pop, country etc music was known to take drugs and have multiple affairs.
Did it stop the grow of the music genre? No, it exploded
Are you suggesting drug usage and cheating are better than non personal targeting racist slur?
I sure hope you find music is globally awesome Bro, Ray Charles was a brilliant, gifted savant musician that brought R'n'B into the mainstream. Destiny is a masters-to-GM SC2 player that survives off people watching him troll other players on the internet. He's about as significant to his field as a funny bartender is to the food industry. Trust me guys, WE'LL SURVIVE THIS!!!!!! So then are you saying that if Destiny was ray charles of SC2, then his bad doings are ok, even if it is not socially acceptable? I don't see people saying "he isn't good enough so he cannot use racist slur/take drugs" I see people saying Destiny is bad for the scene because he is a figure head (which ray charles is even a bigger one in the world) and yet one is considered to be ok? It's just this logic that really confuses me I'm simply saying that if Destiny is the Ray Charles, Michael Jordan, George Carlin, Stephen Hawking, Gene Kelley, Mark Zuckerberg or Amadeus Mozart of SC2, than maybe -- just maybe -- I would understand the argument that Destiny's employers or sponsors should be more tolerant of his behaviour. Destiny is none of these things. He's not the Ray Charles of SC2. He's not even the Idra of SC2. He's a funny but mediocre individual that has to play by the same rules as the rest of society. It's not fair, but that's the way the world works. Unless you are truly exceptional -- so much that the value you bring to your industry or field grossly outweighs your social shortcomings -- you would have to be delusional not to expect consequences for your behaviour.
Delusional. Or a child. Same thing!
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On May 05 2012 12:44 Bippzy wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2012 12:39 Leth0 wrote:On May 05 2012 12:36 Bippzy wrote:On May 05 2012 12:26 Leth0 wrote:On May 05 2012 12:23 AirportSecurity wrote:On May 05 2012 12:22 Klogon wrote:
Edit: I'm staying clear of this. Dont be a bitch just say it I believe his point was that it comes off slightly odd when a privileged white American tells people they need to grow thicker skin when it comes to racial insensitivity. Just a thought. I hate this idea so much. Extreme feminists and anti-racists basically ruin the white males experience of arguments on those subjects. Do we need to get a black man to post he isn't offended by the N word? If you want to root out racism and swearing, progamers in a niche community is not the place to start, Neither is emailing sponsors. It's passively not supporting them that is okay. Otherwise, as LiquidTyler pointed out in a SOTG the other day, we have people who never email sponsors about how much they love them emailing hate mail. It's hypocratic, and immature. Orb and Destiny are really the things I never expected. So tell us all about your personal experience with racial discrimination and / or sexual abuse. I'm interested to hear all about it. Exactly. I am a rich white male privileged spoiled gets all the GSL gets all the MLG built his own computer sings music all day while people starve in Africa. I throw away food I don't like. I don't work while people in the ghetto have to work to live on a day to day basis. So, read this again, and try to get the right information out of it. I hate this idea so much. Extreme feminists and anti-racists basically ruin the white males experience of arguments on those subjects. Do we need to get a black man to post he isn't offended by the N word? If you want to root out racism and swearing, progamers in a niche community is not the place to start, Neither is emailing sponsors. It's passively not supporting them that is okay. Otherwise, as LiquidTyler pointed out in a SOTG the other day, we have people who never email sponsors about how much they love them emailing hate mail. It's hypocratic, and immature. I have no experience with any of that. I lead a cushioned life. I would venture to say destiny wasn't hurting anybody, or even intending to. So, there.
For someone not 'intending to hurt anyone' he could stand to try a little harder.
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Canada13389 Posts
I really didn't want to take part in this thread but people need to either support him if they like him or not support him if they don't its that simple.
He acts immaturely and holds an ignorant view of the topic of racism and xenophobia issues at large. The idea that if you don't words are only racist when you intend them to be racist dismisses the issue of human experience let alone academic understanding and historical implications of racial epithets.
I for one won't be supporting destiny as an individual, but I will not be going out of my way to hurt any team that decides to sign him by hunting down sponsors.
I think people need to inform a team of issues regarding any player, and not the sponsors. God forbid you do message a sponsor please let them know you love that they support the team, but tell them that the player in particular might not be a good representative for their brand and mention again that the team as a whole is awesome.
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On May 05 2012 12:41 Defacer wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2012 12:26 ETisME wrote:On May 05 2012 12:18 Defacer wrote:On May 05 2012 11:58 ETisME wrote:On May 05 2012 11:50 Defacer wrote:On May 05 2012 11:42 ETisME wrote:
Ray Charles, the one that dominated 60s pop, country etc music was known to take drugs and have multiple affairs.
Did it stop the grow of the music genre? No, it exploded
Are you suggesting drug usage and cheating are better than non personal targeting racist slur?
I sure hope you find music is globally awesome Bro, Ray Charles was a brilliant, gifted savant musician that brought R'n'B into the mainstream. Destiny is a masters-to-GM SC2 player that survives off people watching him troll other players on the internet. He's about as significant to his field as a funny bartender is to the food industry. Trust me guys, WE'LL SURVIVE THIS!!!!!! So then are you saying that if Destiny was ray charles of SC2, then his bad doings are ok, even if it is not socially acceptable? I don't see people saying "he isn't good enough so he cannot use racist slur/take drugs" I see people saying Destiny is bad for the scene because he is a figure head (which ray charles is even a bigger one in the world) and yet one is considered to be ok? It's just this logic that really confuses me I'm simply saying that if Destiny is the Ray Charles, Michael Jordan, George Carlin, Stephen Hawking, Gene Kelley, Mark Zuckerberg or Amadeus Mozart of SC2, than maybe -- just maybe -- I would understand the argument that Destiny's employers or sponsors should be more tolerant of his behaviour. Destiny is none of these things. He's not the Ray Charles of SC2. He's not even the Idra of SC2. He's a funny but mediocre individual that has to play by the same rules as the rest of society. It's not fair, but that's the way the world works. Unless you are truly exceptional -- so much that the value you bring to your industry or field grossly outweighs your social shortcomings -- you would have to be delusional not to expect consequences for your behaviour. the employers know Destiny uses the words and still employed him. The emailing to sponsor thing is the key issue here, they told the sponsors to do something (as this guy has talked about sponsoring experience on reddit here: http://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/comments/t6zn1/as_a_sponsor_to_the_community/)His benefit to the community (entertainment and charity for example, at least around 4000 people find values in his stream anyway) outweighed the shortcomings until the emailing to sponsor starts. This is the problem: the community was divided into two stances, but the ones that disapprove of his behavior only have to email sponsor to overthrow every single argument that the other side has to offer. So the judgement of "benefit and cost" is not by the community, it is by the action of how many people emailing to sponsors. You need to do more than draw 4000 fans. Not to mention that I've never heard Destiny promote his sponsors or even place high enough in a tournament to give his sponsors any significant exposure. You might value him as a community member, but we're not his employer or 'sponsor'. All the ad revenue his stream generates goes directly to him. There is simply very little benefit for Quantic or his sponsors to make concessions or stick his neck out of him. Compare this to someone like IdrA, who can regularly draw up to 10,000 viewers to his stream, participates in almost every tournament that he is physically able to, has a proven track record of boosting viewership of any tournament he participates, and rattles off EG's litany of sponsors happily with a consistent and almost comical frequency. To me, Quantic and Destiny parting is a no-brainer. They're both better off.
"There is simply very little benefit for Quantic or his sponsors to make concessions or stick his neck out of him."
This isn't for you to decide. I highly doubt before that thread was posted (the cheese+forward BM lead to racist BM), there were any issue as big as this one.
If these problem comes, the team should be the one deciding on whether he is worth keeping or not and what punishment. But not from the pressure of hate emails to sponsors and tell the team to get rid of him right away.
His stream page is quantic gaming which also shows sponsor's logo and Destiny himself is using sponsor products, the 4000 viewers with his amount of streaming is a pretty good exposure. Plus, the typing sound of the blackwidow always get people asking what keyboard he is using. (it's actually one of the main reasons why I watch his stream)
4k views are pretty high for a stream, even GanZi or Sase don't get nearly as much.
I am fairly sure that if there was a similar thread started on Idra, he would be severally affected by it as well. The income of team is so heavily dependent on sponsors that team just don't have nearly enough power to stand up for players anyway.
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For all the people who think e-mailing Razer hurts the community, have you noticed that Razer is a computer gaming equipment manufacturer? There is no way that Razer will ever stop advertising in and supporting the e-sports community. This community is Razer's primary market.
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On May 05 2012 12:50 Leth0 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2012 12:44 Bippzy wrote:On May 05 2012 12:39 Leth0 wrote:On May 05 2012 12:36 Bippzy wrote:On May 05 2012 12:26 Leth0 wrote:On May 05 2012 12:23 AirportSecurity wrote:On May 05 2012 12:22 Klogon wrote:
Edit: I'm staying clear of this. Dont be a bitch just say it I believe his point was that it comes off slightly odd when a privileged white American tells people they need to grow thicker skin when it comes to racial insensitivity. Just a thought. I hate this idea so much. Extreme feminists and anti-racists basically ruin the white males experience of arguments on those subjects. Do we need to get a black man to post he isn't offended by the N word? If you want to root out racism and swearing, progamers in a niche community is not the place to start, Neither is emailing sponsors. It's passively not supporting them that is okay. Otherwise, as LiquidTyler pointed out in a SOTG the other day, we have people who never email sponsors about how much they love them emailing hate mail. It's hypocratic, and immature. Orb and Destiny are really the things I never expected. So tell us all about your personal experience with racial discrimination and / or sexual abuse. I'm interested to hear all about it. Exactly. I am a rich white male privileged spoiled gets all the GSL gets all the MLG built his own computer sings music all day while people starve in Africa. I throw away food I don't like. I don't work while people in the ghetto have to work to live on a day to day basis. So, read this again, and try to get the right information out of it. I hate this idea so much. Extreme feminists and anti-racists basically ruin the white males experience of arguments on those subjects. Do we need to get a black man to post he isn't offended by the N word? If you want to root out racism and swearing, progamers in a niche community is not the place to start, Neither is emailing sponsors. It's passively not supporting them that is okay. Otherwise, as LiquidTyler pointed out in a SOTG the other day, we have people who never email sponsors about how much they love them emailing hate mail. It's hypocratic, and immature. I have no experience with any of that. I lead a cushioned life. I would venture to say destiny wasn't hurting anybody, or even intending to. So, there. For someone not 'intending to hurt anyone' he could stand to try a little harder.
Much like I would have to get black people and gay people to say they don't care about Destiny's ways to gain credibility, you would have to find gay and black people to say they are deeply hurt by Destiny's behavior.
I was actually debated to put that entire last sentence in, because it is the most arguable. People are condemning him as a scarecrow of racists and people who act unprofessional who hinder the Starcraft 2 scene.
Yes he could stand to try a littler harder, but should this be the result of his lack of trying a little harder? I think not.
On May 05 2012 12:53 SergioCQH wrote:
For all the people who think e-mailing Razer hurts the community, have you noticed that Razer is a computer gaming equipment manufacturer? There is no way that Razer will ever stop advertising in and supporting the e-sports community. This community is Razer's primary market.
It hurts the progaming team that is looking for more sponsors that asks razor to be a sponsor and razer finds an instance of them saying the N-word. it hurts, the community.
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meh... maybe destiny can play full LoL now
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On May 05 2012 12:53 SergioCQH wrote:
For all the people who think e-mailing Razer hurts the community, have you noticed that Razer is a computer gaming equipment manufacturer? There is no way that Razer will ever stop advertising in and supporting the e-sports community. This community is Razer's primary market.
they can...you know....just sponsor less on the market?
(http://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/comments/t6zn1/as_a_sponsor_to_the_community/)
less sponsored team, less viable the scene is, hurts community?
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On May 05 2012 12:55 Bippzy wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2012 12:50 Leth0 wrote:On May 05 2012 12:44 Bippzy wrote:On May 05 2012 12:39 Leth0 wrote:On May 05 2012 12:36 Bippzy wrote:On May 05 2012 12:26 Leth0 wrote:On May 05 2012 12:23 AirportSecurity wrote:On May 05 2012 12:22 Klogon wrote:
Edit: I'm staying clear of this. Dont be a bitch just say it I believe his point was that it comes off slightly odd when a privileged white American tells people they need to grow thicker skin when it comes to racial insensitivity. Just a thought. I hate this idea so much. Extreme feminists and anti-racists basically ruin the white males experience of arguments on those subjects. Do we need to get a black man to post he isn't offended by the N word? If you want to root out racism and swearing, progamers in a niche community is not the place to start, Neither is emailing sponsors. It's passively not supporting them that is okay. Otherwise, as LiquidTyler pointed out in a SOTG the other day, we have people who never email sponsors about how much they love them emailing hate mail. It's hypocratic, and immature. Orb and Destiny are really the things I never expected. So tell us all about your personal experience with racial discrimination and / or sexual abuse. I'm interested to hear all about it. Exactly. I am a rich white male privileged spoiled gets all the GSL gets all the MLG built his own computer sings music all day while people starve in Africa. I throw away food I don't like. I don't work while people in the ghetto have to work to live on a day to day basis. So, read this again, and try to get the right information out of it. I hate this idea so much. Extreme feminists and anti-racists basically ruin the white males experience of arguments on those subjects. Do we need to get a black man to post he isn't offended by the N word? If you want to root out racism and swearing, progamers in a niche community is not the place to start, Neither is emailing sponsors. It's passively not supporting them that is okay. Otherwise, as LiquidTyler pointed out in a SOTG the other day, we have people who never email sponsors about how much they love them emailing hate mail. It's hypocratic, and immature. I have no experience with any of that. I lead a cushioned life. I would venture to say destiny wasn't hurting anybody, or even intending to. So, there. For someone not 'intending to hurt anyone' he could stand to try a little harder. Much like I would have to get black people and gay people to say they don't care about Destiny's ways to gain credibility, you would have to find gay and black people to say they are deeply hurt by Destiny's behavior. I was actually debated to put that entire last sentence in, because it is the most arguable. People are condemning him as a scarecrow of racists and people who act unprofessional who hinder the Starcraft 2 scene. Yes he could stand to try a littler harder, but should this be the result of his lack of trying a little harder? I think not. Show nested quote +On May 05 2012 12:53 SergioCQH wrote:
For all the people who think e-mailing Razer hurts the community, have you noticed that Razer is a computer gaming equipment manufacturer? There is no way that Razer will ever stop advertising in and supporting the e-sports community. This community is Razer's primary market. It hurts the progaming team that is looking for more sponsors that asks razor to be a sponsor and razer finds an instance of them saying the N-word. it hurts, the community.
If you think you need a gay person to "OK" your "right' to call somebody a faggot because they fragged you in halo, then you are missing the point entirely.
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On May 05 2012 12:57 ETisME wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2012 12:53 SergioCQH wrote:
For all the people who think e-mailing Razer hurts the community, have you noticed that Razer is a computer gaming equipment manufacturer? There is no way that Razer will ever stop advertising in and supporting the e-sports community. This community is Razer's primary market. they can...you know....just sponsor less on the market? (http://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/comments/t6zn1/as_a_sponsor_to_the_community/) less sponsored team, less viable the scene is, hurts community?
Razer would be idiotic to sponsor less. Razer wants the community to grow, because the more the community grows, the more gaming equipment they sell.
Razer sells high-end peripherals to all the wanna be pros out there. In order for there to be a thriving wanna-be-pro market for Razer peripherals, there must also be a thriving pro e-sports scene. Every dollar Razer spends helping the e-sports community grow brings back many more dollars in sales from the people who follow the pro scene.
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On May 05 2012 12:53 ETisME wrote:
His stream page is quantic gaming which also shows sponsor's logo and Destiny himself is using sponsor products, the 4000 viewers with his amount of streaming is a pretty good exposure.
All depends on his salary from Quantic.
Let's say he's getting an additional $20,000 a year from Quantic.
The company I work for just published a free, mobile promotional app. We were paid a modest sum of money (less than a $100,000) but the app has received 2,000,000 downloads in the past month.
4,000 viewers is peanuts, and not worth the liability that Destiny represents.
Bear in mind I really don't care either way what Destiny does, but from strictly a business and marketing standpoint, it's not like he's critical in any way.
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I can't believe how far overboard this community will go.
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On May 05 2012 12:58 Leth0 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2012 12:55 Bippzy wrote:On May 05 2012 12:50 Leth0 wrote:On May 05 2012 12:44 Bippzy wrote:On May 05 2012 12:39 Leth0 wrote:On May 05 2012 12:36 Bippzy wrote:On May 05 2012 12:26 Leth0 wrote:On May 05 2012 12:23 AirportSecurity wrote:On May 05 2012 12:22 Klogon wrote:
Edit: I'm staying clear of this. Dont be a bitch just say it I believe his point was that it comes off slightly odd when a privileged white American tells people they need to grow thicker skin when it comes to racial insensitivity. Just a thought. I hate this idea so much. Extreme feminists and anti-racists basically ruin the white males experience of arguments on those subjects. Do we need to get a black man to post he isn't offended by the N word? If you want to root out racism and swearing, progamers in a niche community is not the place to start, Neither is emailing sponsors. It's passively not supporting them that is okay. Otherwise, as LiquidTyler pointed out in a SOTG the other day, we have people who never email sponsors about how much they love them emailing hate mail. It's hypocratic, and immature. Orb and Destiny are really the things I never expected. So tell us all about your personal experience with racial discrimination and / or sexual abuse. I'm interested to hear all about it. Exactly. I am a rich white male privileged spoiled gets all the GSL gets all the MLG built his own computer sings music all day while people starve in Africa. I throw away food I don't like. I don't work while people in the ghetto have to work to live on a day to day basis. So, read this again, and try to get the right information out of it. I hate this idea so much. Extreme feminists and anti-racists basically ruin the white males experience of arguments on those subjects. Do we need to get a black man to post he isn't offended by the N word? If you want to root out racism and swearing, progamers in a niche community is not the place to start, Neither is emailing sponsors. It's passively not supporting them that is okay. Otherwise, as LiquidTyler pointed out in a SOTG the other day, we have people who never email sponsors about how much they love them emailing hate mail. It's hypocratic, and immature. I have no experience with any of that. I lead a cushioned life. I would venture to say destiny wasn't hurting anybody, or even intending to. So, there. For someone not 'intending to hurt anyone' he could stand to try a little harder. Much like I would have to get black people and gay people to say they don't care about Destiny's ways to gain credibility, you would have to find gay and black people to say they are deeply hurt by Destiny's behavior. I was actually debated to put that entire last sentence in, because it is the most arguable. People are condemning him as a scarecrow of racists and people who act unprofessional who hinder the Starcraft 2 scene. Yes he could stand to try a littler harder, but should this be the result of his lack of trying a little harder? I think not. On May 05 2012 12:53 SergioCQH wrote:
For all the people who think e-mailing Razer hurts the community, have you noticed that Razer is a computer gaming equipment manufacturer? There is no way that Razer will ever stop advertising in and supporting the e-sports community. This community is Razer's primary market. It hurts the progaming team that is looking for more sponsors that asks razor to be a sponsor and razer finds an instance of them saying the N-word. it hurts, the community. If you think you need a gay person to "OK" your "right' to call somebody a faggot because they fragged you in halo, then you are missing the point entirely.
Ugh. The point of the line was to say that both sides are arguing because of things that could happen because of someones actions. Thus, everything is subjective. Find a gay person who killed himself because destiny called him a fag? Destiny desires to be in misery. Destiny has friends that don't care about the N word and so he uses it liberally? Destiny is fine.
It's all so subjective to argue about.
On May 05 2012 12:49 Defacer wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2012 12:44 Bippzy wrote:
If you want to root out racism and swearing, progamers in a niche community is not the place to start, Neither is emailing sponsors. It's passively not supporting them that is okay. Otherwise, as LiquidTyler pointed out in a SOTG the other day, we have people who never email sponsors about how much they love them emailing hate mail. It's hypocratic, and immature.
I do think there are people that are unfairly trying to burn Destiny at the stake, but dealing with issues such as racism or sexism in your own community that you care about is the best place to start. There will always be some form of bigotry in the world, but the least people can do is choose and shape the communities they are already in. But that's neither here or there. Good luck Destiny, hope he can sustain his income with the cult of personality he's sown.
You're right. I guess I was just arguing at the people who burnt destiny at the stake for some stupid cause. Truly believing in the cause of getting rid of racism and sexism would have a more reformist route, allowing for some time to adjust instead of just consequences.
On May 05 2012 13:03 SergioCQH wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2012 12:57 ETisME wrote:On May 05 2012 12:53 SergioCQH wrote:
For all the people who think e-mailing Razer hurts the community, have you noticed that Razer is a computer gaming equipment manufacturer? There is no way that Razer will ever stop advertising in and supporting the e-sports community. This community is Razer's primary market. they can...you know....just sponsor less on the market? (http://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/comments/t6zn1/as_a_sponsor_to_the_community/) less sponsored team, less viable the scene is, hurts community? Razer would be idiotic to sponsor less. Razer wants the community to grow, because the more the community grows, the more gaming equipment they sell. Razer sells high-end peripherals to all the wanna be pros out there. In order for there to be a thriving wanna-be-pro market for Razer peripherals, there must also be a thriving pro e-sports scene. Every dollar Razer spends helping the e-sports community grow brings back many more dollars in sales from the people who follow the pro scene.
More restrictions on who to sponsor= less sponsoring, straight up. Emailing sponsors in general makes sponsors more like cats that will run at the first sight of trouble. The community should deal with the community, not the sponsors only sponsor the politically correct people. Maybe razer will see idra on EG and issue an ultimatum. that is bad for the community,
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On May 05 2012 12:39 Leth0 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2012 12:36 Bippzy wrote:On May 05 2012 12:26 Leth0 wrote:On May 05 2012 12:23 AirportSecurity wrote:On May 05 2012 12:22 Klogon wrote:
Edit: I'm staying clear of this. Dont be a bitch just say it I believe his point was that it comes off slightly odd when a privileged white American tells people they need to grow thicker skin when it comes to racial insensitivity. Just a thought. I hate this idea so much. Extreme feminists and anti-racists basically ruin the white males experience of arguments on those subjects. Do we need to get a black man to post he isn't offended by the N word? If you want to root out racism and swearing, progamers in a niche community is not the place to start, Neither is emailing sponsors. It's passively not supporting them that is okay. Otherwise, as LiquidTyler pointed out in a SOTG the other day, we have people who never email sponsors about how much they love them emailing hate mail. It's hypocratic, and immature. Orb and Destiny are really the things I never expected. So tell us all about your personal experience with racial discrimination and / or sexual abuse. I'm interested to hear all about it. That or make some abstract argument about why you having a black friend makes it ok for you to call people 'niggers' because they beat you in a video game.
Sorry but what you're saying is bullshit. I'm a Mexican (who used to mow lawns believe it or not) who's had his share of discrimination and I can tell you (for me at least) that it's not the same at all. WHENEVER someone is on the internet, they'd be completely idiotic to think that any word like nigger, beaner, spic, gook, etc etc carries ANY weight at all. At first, it may be a little unsettling, but it's just another term like "idiot" now, and my other mexican friends as well as most of my family feel the same way. It's just insane to think they do. But then again I never really even cared about discrimination and I think (also, only for me) that people try to milk it way too much. So someone called me a beaner or threw something at me, who fucking cares? This whole concept of white people can't speak out against racism because they're white is incredibly stupid, and to think that many minorities don't use their own racism for their own benefit is naive. Maybe back when cops were blatantly just picking out blacks/mexicans and beating them up and this was common and accepted or when it was advertised in towns like mine that minorities could not live here, it would carry some weight. But today it really doesn't.
Sticks and stones. The words used to carry more weight, but in my honest opinion they don't carry anything anymore
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On May 05 2012 12:44 JitnikoVi wrote:Show nested quote +I've joined the game and the community cause of destiny, he made this game FUN. If thats the only reason you thought this game was 'fun' than i feel very sad for you. Maybe maplestory is more of a gaming choice for you. Show nested quote +Do you see all these other pros giving out free advice always? no, you dont , Do you see all these other streamers do as much for the community as destiny has? no, you don't. White-Ra, Brat_OK, Attero, Minigun, IdrA, Axslav, Grubby just to name a few, all stream with commentary, all are arguably better players, while they dont always do commentary, neither does Destiny. Show nested quote +I'm disappointed in TeamLiquid. Banning someones cause of his freedom of speech didnt go the way you wanted. He's right about context of using words and there is even a term for it. The Locutionary act. When you display words that Society doesn't like, why is it bad besides political correctness? It's not, there is no physical harm for this. It's just ignorance at taking a word offensively for very little reason. Yes, constantly calling people autistic is completely harmless. At the same time, Teamliquid has rules, and as its their site, and he wants his stream featured here, its their rules that apply, not his. "Locutionary act"... rofl do you have any clue what this means? because it doesnt apply here the way you want it to - if even at all. this explains alot. fanboy. Show nested quote +Cool story bros, lynch moar people that do more for "esports" than you ever will in your entire lifetime. Thumbs up for him for that, but that doesnt mean standard tl rules dont apply to him. EDIT: i forgot to mention, destiny has been playing so much league of legends recently that from the several times ive seen/heard about his stream, starcraft 2 hasnt been played very much (if at all) in the last week (my roommate watch's his stream quite often) bye
Yes calling people names is harmless, Destiny has a warning on his stream, if you dont like it dont watch it. Don't go out of your way to bash on him or his views on life. Oh, and what else is he supposed to do in order to get viewers? Teamliquid has the monopoly on everything starcraft 2. There ISNT another place to get his stream featured. Knowing this, TL shouldn't be run the way it is. He already has a advisory warning ffs. Quantic picked him up knowing all this too, so its not like he should change his views on things when the team already knows as such. Does he bm at professional settings at mlg and whatnot? no, he doesnt, only on a stream that you have a choice whether to watch or not. He got a lot of my friends and I into starcraft, because he made the game look cool and interesting. From there my friends and i grew to love the game, sorry if you entirely misunderstood what i said about making this game look fun. I made an assumption people reading my post wouldn't be so narrow minded.
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On May 05 2012 12:55 Bippzy wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2012 12:50 Leth0 wrote:On May 05 2012 12:44 Bippzy wrote:On May 05 2012 12:39 Leth0 wrote:On May 05 2012 12:36 Bippzy wrote:On May 05 2012 12:26 Leth0 wrote:On May 05 2012 12:23 AirportSecurity wrote:On May 05 2012 12:22 Klogon wrote:
Edit: I'm staying clear of this. Dont be a bitch just say it I believe his point was that it comes off slightly odd when a privileged white American tells people they need to grow thicker skin when it comes to racial insensitivity. Just a thought. I hate this idea so much. Extreme feminists and anti-racists basically ruin the white males experience of arguments on those subjects. Do we need to get a black man to post he isn't offended by the N word? If you want to root out racism and swearing, progamers in a niche community is not the place to start, Neither is emailing sponsors. It's passively not supporting them that is okay. Otherwise, as LiquidTyler pointed out in a SOTG the other day, we have people who never email sponsors about how much they love them emailing hate mail. It's hypocratic, and immature. Orb and Destiny are really the things I never expected. So tell us all about your personal experience with racial discrimination and / or sexual abuse. I'm interested to hear all about it. Exactly. I am a rich white male privileged spoiled gets all the GSL gets all the MLG built his own computer sings music all day while people starve in Africa. I throw away food I don't like. I don't work while people in the ghetto have to work to live on a day to day basis. So, read this again, and try to get the right information out of it. I hate this idea so much. Extreme feminists and anti-racists basically ruin the white males experience of arguments on those subjects. Do we need to get a black man to post he isn't offended by the N word? If you want to root out racism and swearing, progamers in a niche community is not the place to start, Neither is emailing sponsors. It's passively not supporting them that is okay. Otherwise, as LiquidTyler pointed out in a SOTG the other day, we have people who never email sponsors about how much they love them emailing hate mail. It's hypocratic, and immature. I have no experience with any of that. I lead a cushioned life. I would venture to say destiny wasn't hurting anybody, or even intending to. So, there. For someone not 'intending to hurt anyone' he could stand to try a little harder. Much like I would have to get black people and gay people to say they don't care about Destiny's ways to gain credibility, you would have to find gay and black people to say they are deeply hurt by Destiny's behavior. I was actually debated to put that entire last sentence in, because it is the most arguable. People are condemning him as a scarecrow of racists and people who act unprofessional who hinder the Starcraft 2 scene. Yes he could stand to try a littler harder, but should this be the result of his lack of trying a little harder? I think not. Show nested quote +On May 05 2012 12:53 SergioCQH wrote:
For all the people who think e-mailing Razer hurts the community, have you noticed that Razer is a computer gaming equipment manufacturer? There is no way that Razer will ever stop advertising in and supporting the e-sports community. This community is Razer's primary market. It hurts the progaming team that is looking for more sponsors that asks razor to be a sponsor and razer finds an instance of them saying the N-word. it hurts, the community.
You don't have to get anyone to say anything about Destiny's actions. They stand on their own - they have significance and hurtfulness because of what they are. Intent is irrelevant.
You can debate and dress it up however you want, and you can make a million different arguments about whether or not removing Destiny from a team is good for gaming and e-Sports. I happen to think it is. I don't think Destiny realizes how lucky he is to earn his income the way he does, and I don't think he realizes how much of an utter fool he is to be consistently damaging the community that sustains him financially instead of seeing the benefits of helping to build it.
In the end, we can't forget that this conversation wouldn't even have to exist if Destiny weren't an asshole. To everyone who slams the teams, the sponsors...sorry, but the only constant every time is him and the things he says.
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Why...would Warden get so hurt after Destiny called him that? I mean sure it is insulting but you can just take it with a pinch of salt. You don't need to show off to the world and tell them that he is a true bad guy. If he insults you, you can just ignore/block him. Stuff happens. People get mad for small reasons. Doesn't mean you have to overreact. Why get so sensitive and hurt about it?
I was also thinking.. if Destiny had to leave Quantic and get a huge blow to his reputation because of this, what about the other ragers on SC2? I mean, I've met a lot of users on SC2 that BM even worse than this and never let it go, going as far as to report you. Even if these guys aren't pros should we just let that go? So is it okay if we protest against one player and then ignore the other BM-ers out there? What good does that do if the majority are using racial slurs and the such? :S
Also if people don't like Destiny....why watch his stream? I am confused. :S
Also all these emailing sponsors and stuff is crap. That won't solve the problem. It'll only make it worse. I am disappointed in the community for doing so. I thought you guys would think twice before doing so as it hurts e-sports. 
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On May 05 2012 13:06 Bippzy wrote:
Ugh. The point of the line was to say that both sides are arguing because of things that could happen because of someones actions. Thus, everything is subjective. Find a gay person who killed himself because destiny called him a fag? Destiny desires to be in misery. Destiny has friends that don't care about the N word and so he uses it liberally? Destiny is fine.
It's all so subjective to argue about.
In this case, there's really nothing subjective about it. Orb getting tarred and feathered seemed like bullshit to me, because he was using a word as a generic insult. Sure the word was "taboo", but it was not used to insult an individual based on his ethnicity.
Destiny, on the other hand, aimed directly at his opponent's race. The other player talked in Korean, so Destiny intentionally chose to use a racial slur against Asian people.
Context counts, and in Destiny's case, the context makes it bad.
On May 05 2012 13:13 Daedalus SEA wrote:
I was also thinking.. if Destiny had to leave Quantic and get a huge blow to his reputation because of this, what about the other ragers on SC2? I mean, I've met a lot of users on SC2 that BM even worse than this and never let it go, going as far as to report you. Even if these guys aren't pros should we just let that go? So is it okay if we protest against one player and then ignore the other BM-ers out there? What good does that do if the majority are using racial slurs and the such? :S
Once again, context. The problem isn't that Destiny used some bad word in rage, it's that he targeted and insulted someone based on their ethnicity as soon as he discovered it.
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On May 05 2012 13:11 TGalore wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2012 12:55 Bippzy wrote:On May 05 2012 12:50 Leth0 wrote:On May 05 2012 12:44 Bippzy wrote:On May 05 2012 12:39 Leth0 wrote:On May 05 2012 12:36 Bippzy wrote:On May 05 2012 12:26 Leth0 wrote:On May 05 2012 12:23 AirportSecurity wrote:On May 05 2012 12:22 Klogon wrote:
Edit: I'm staying clear of this. Dont be a bitch just say it I believe his point was that it comes off slightly odd when a privileged white American tells people they need to grow thicker skin when it comes to racial insensitivity. Just a thought. I hate this idea so much. Extreme feminists and anti-racists basically ruin the white males experience of arguments on those subjects. Do we need to get a black man to post he isn't offended by the N word? If you want to root out racism and swearing, progamers in a niche community is not the place to start, Neither is emailing sponsors. It's passively not supporting them that is okay. Otherwise, as LiquidTyler pointed out in a SOTG the other day, we have people who never email sponsors about how much they love them emailing hate mail. It's hypocratic, and immature. Orb and Destiny are really the things I never expected. So tell us all about your personal experience with racial discrimination and / or sexual abuse. I'm interested to hear all about it. Exactly. I am a rich white male privileged spoiled gets all the GSL gets all the MLG built his own computer sings music all day while people starve in Africa. I throw away food I don't like. I don't work while people in the ghetto have to work to live on a day to day basis. So, read this again, and try to get the right information out of it. I hate this idea so much. Extreme feminists and anti-racists basically ruin the white males experience of arguments on those subjects. Do we need to get a black man to post he isn't offended by the N word? If you want to root out racism and swearing, progamers in a niche community is not the place to start, Neither is emailing sponsors. It's passively not supporting them that is okay. Otherwise, as LiquidTyler pointed out in a SOTG the other day, we have people who never email sponsors about how much they love them emailing hate mail. It's hypocratic, and immature. I have no experience with any of that. I lead a cushioned life. I would venture to say destiny wasn't hurting anybody, or even intending to. So, there. For someone not 'intending to hurt anyone' he could stand to try a little harder. Much like I would have to get black people and gay people to say they don't care about Destiny's ways to gain credibility, you would have to find gay and black people to say they are deeply hurt by Destiny's behavior. I was actually debated to put that entire last sentence in, because it is the most arguable. People are condemning him as a scarecrow of racists and people who act unprofessional who hinder the Starcraft 2 scene. Yes he could stand to try a littler harder, but should this be the result of his lack of trying a little harder? I think not. On May 05 2012 12:53 SergioCQH wrote:
For all the people who think e-mailing Razer hurts the community, have you noticed that Razer is a computer gaming equipment manufacturer? There is no way that Razer will ever stop advertising in and supporting the e-sports community. This community is Razer's primary market. It hurts the progaming team that is looking for more sponsors that asks razor to be a sponsor and razer finds an instance of them saying the N-word. it hurts, the community. You don't have to get anyone to say anything about Destiny's actions. They stand on their own - they have significance and hurtfulness because of what they are. Intent is irrelevant. You can debate and dress it up however you want, and you can make a million different arguments about whether or not removing Destiny from a team is good for gaming and e-Sports. I happen to think it is. I don't think Destiny realizes how lucky he is to earn his income the way he does, and I don't think he realizes how much of an utter fool he is to be consistently damaging the community that sustains him financially instead of seeing the benefits of helping to build it. In the end, we can't forget that this conversation wouldn't even have to exist if Destiny weren't an asshole. To everyone who slams the teams, the sponsors...sorry, but the only constant every time is him and the things he says.
Really, this a main theme of life, and after I go talk about it, I'm out of this thread.
For everything unfair in life, theres a certain level of smartness that will still make you triumph.
I want to pick my nose but can't get chicks. Certainly(okay this metaphor sucks), no one should not choose you because you pick your nose but you will still have the consequences.
Likewise, if anyone becomes a progamer, they would be unsmart to follow in Destiny's line. We can debate whether or not he should be punished, but at the end of the day he could of stopped this.
Discussing this is pointless.
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I can't believe this thread is still going.
It's pretty simple. Regardless of whether fans emailed the sponsors or not, if the sponsors couldn't defend their reasons, or justify the sponsorship, then they shouldn't have been sponsoring him in the first place. Yes it was Quantic who hired Destiny but Razer should have told Quantic not to hire him. Quantic should have known not to hire him.
The responsibility lies on Qunatic and Razer to perform due diligence when choosing representatives of their brands. Case closed.
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EPT
