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Keep this civil, guys |
On May 05 2012 11:08 Ballistixz wrote:
i just want to say that when the community does shit like what happened with orb and now destiny they are shooting themselves in there own foot multiple times. keep it up and the entire scene will die a very slow and painful death.
To be honest scene won't move further anyway if we have prominent scene figures acting like racist and/or homophobes on daily basis.
I also agree that if people are displeased by behavior should talk to teams and players first, but in this situation Quantic was well aware of Destiny and didn't do anything about it.
Personally, I don't want the scene where acting like he does is globally accepted as "awesome". That's just me of course!
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On May 05 2012 11:08 Falcor wrote:
I really don't want to type out every incident but to say anyone who does or says racist crap would be ostracized is clearly not true when people running for the most powerful office in the world can get away with it along with some of the bigger talk radio shows
I said it would be the reaction if you called people "gooks" or "niggers".
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I love how Destiny tries to justify using racial slurs by saying the game is violent. Shows how truly clueless he is, sad really.
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On May 05 2012 09:08 genius_man16 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2012 07:42 Bulldog654 wrote:On May 05 2012 07:40 genius_man16 wrote:
I have yet to understand how this community absolutely LOVES E-Sports and wants it to go mainstream and yet when something like this happens people get upset?
If you want E-sports to go mainstream, then Destiny using racial slurs needs to stop ASAP. We as a community cannot 'go mainstream' if we continue to embrace people like Destiny when he is quite honestly a giant bigot. He can whine all he wants about "free speech" and how he doesn't use the n-word to offend anyone, but the fact is that the n-word is simply one of, if not THE most offensive word in the english language and you CANNOT use it and pretend like people who are offended by it are stupid.
Perhaps you err in assuming that the whole of the "community" even wants it to go mainstream. Perhaps, however it seems to be a vast majority sentiment, so I feel that my point still stands. Show nested quote +On May 05 2012 07:51 MercilessMonkey wrote:On May 05 2012 07:44 Holytornados wrote:On May 05 2012 07:26 StarStrider wrote:On May 05 2012 07:24 dAPhREAk wrote:On May 05 2012 07:22 StarStrider wrote:We should have another TL poll like the one in "DJ Wheat saying Bitches" thread. I'm interested in just how many people there are on each side of this issue. + Show Spoiler +Poll: Is offensive/racial language a teamkick / TL-ban-worthy offense?It doesn't matter, it's not a big deal, people should just get over it and stop watching his strea (64) 43% Yes. Get that out of my esports. It is a blight to the professionalism of the scene. (51) 34% Only if he refuses to apologize and refrain from it in the future. (Warning) (18) 12% Language is what you make it. I should be able to say anything without you getting offended. (14) 9% Only if sponsors are on the line. Otherwise it doesn't matter. (2) 1% 149 total votes Your vote: Is offensive/racial language a teamkick / TL-ban-worthy offense? (Vote): Yes. Get that out of my esports. It is a blight to the professionalism of the scene.
(Vote): Only if sponsors are on the line. Otherwise it doesn't matter.
(Vote): Only if he refuses to apologize and refrain from it in the future. (Warning)
(Vote): It doesn't matter, it's not a big deal, people should just get over it and stop watching his strea
(Vote): Language is what you make it. I should be able to say anything without you getting offended.
what is offensive/racial language? Cunt, Nigger, Kike, Faggot, etc. I don't really see how cunt is offensive, and I've never personally heard the word Kike ever. Some feminists would tell you that cunt is the most offensive word you can use. Kike is a racist slur for asians? Idk, I never really see it used. On May 05 2012 07:40 Dante_A_ wrote:
I believe you should act online the way you would act in real life. As people have noted, it seems unlikely that Destiny (or others) would use such offensive language in real life. Why is it suddenly OK just because its online and "just a game"?
Pickup basketball is also just a game, yet it would be a pretty big offense to use these words to strangers on a basketball court.
Acting in a brazen and offensive manner online just because you can avoid the repercussions that would follow in real life is no excuse to do it. I don't disagree, I don't think it's necessarily "ok" to act like a dick on the internet when you wouldn't in real life. However, let's follow through with your analogy. If I called you a racist slur on the basketball court, which of the following is more likely: A) You tell me to go fuck myself, and don't play basketball with me anymore B) Go complain to my boss and try to get me fired I think it's pretty obvious the difference between the two. Not many people are saying that it's great for Destiny to be rude and offensive, but rather the reaction which resulted was unwarranted considering the other options. People who don't like his stream can just not watch it. I don't even watch his stream. But it's not like he did it at a tournament or live event or anything of the sort. Your two examples don't really fully explain the Destiny situation. If we are going to use the basketball example, "B" would be valid because you would be playing a basketball game as a representative of your company, so it would be justifiable for the person to go to your boss if you called him the n-word during said basketball game.
What world do you live in? Are you six years old?
If someone called you a racial slur, you'd go "tell on him" to his boss and try to get him fired?
I'm so disappointed in the TL community, I really didn't think things had fallen this far. I might just use this site for nothing more than stream monitoring from now on... this place has turned into the Christian Moms' Morality Police club.
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On May 05 2012 11:17 RmoteCntrld wrote:
I love how Destiny tries to justify using racial slurs by saying the game is violent. Shows how truly clueless he is, sad really.
You don't strike me as a particularily clever man. Destiny never used video game violence to justify his actions, he used video game violence to draw a comparison that shows the hypocrisy of people calling him out over "racist" slang. Basically, he is saying that it's entirely arbitrary for people to act so offended over "racist" words when words like "rape" and "murder" allude to far more offensive acts than anything in any racial slur yet nobody has a problem with these terms being thrown around simply because you've all been brainwashed to blindly hate anything deemed "racist" and completely ignore context and reason.
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On May 05 2012 11:14 whiterabbit wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2012 11:08 Ballistixz wrote:
i just want to say that when the community does shit like what happened with orb and now destiny they are shooting themselves in there own foot multiple times. keep it up and the entire scene will die a very slow and painful death. To be honest scene won't move further anyway if we have prominent scene figures acting like racist and/or homophobes on daily basis. I also agree that if people are displeased by behavior should talk to teams and players first, but in this situation Quantic was well aware of Destiny and didn't do anything about it. Personally, I don't want the scene where acting like he does is globally accepted as "awesome". That's just me of course!
destiny, orb, and idra are not anything new, they have all been around since the dawn of SC2 beta and the scene moved just fine. but if when u start to target sponsors and threaten those sponsors to the point that the sponsors might be forced to sever all of there sponsorships to a team is a deathwish. ur basically aiming at the life support that is keeping this scene alive just so u can get revenge on ONE player that u dont like... its utter stupidity.
what u dont realize is that most of the time is just a huge elaborate troll. the guy that posted the racial slurs thread for example... do u have any idea what THAT particular guy has said?
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On May 05 2012 11:10 Shiori wrote:
Just saying, but neither the word "faggot" nor the word "gay" necessarily originated as homophobic slurs. You can't make the argument against them that you can make against 'nigger' (i.e. that it exists for the sole purpose of demonizing a race). Both "gay" and "faggot" have rather well-established secondary meanings that are actually rather conducive to insults. Perhaps that's why people aren't complaining about them as much.
This is true, but it's pretty easy to determine that if I call someone a faggot or say something is gay, im not talking about the person being a bundle of sticks nor am I calling the thing happy. However I do understand your point.
On May 05 2012 11:06 Heavenlee wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2012 10:57 genius_man16 wrote:
One thing you should learn is that as soon as you use absolutes in your speech, you lose all credibility. To be specific: No, actually, not EVERYONE uses the N, G, Fa, or W word. I, in fact, have never used the N word, and stopped using the G and Fa word when I was 16 and learned about how it affected other people in my sociology class. If the "W" word is "whore" then I will admit I use it around my male friends but never in the presence of a female, regardless of how close a friend they are.
So before you start pretending everyone is the same as you, maybe you should be less of an idiot and realize everyone is different and there are TONS of people that don't use those words and feel that the use of those words is a VERY bad thing. You are mindnumbingly condescending and hypocritical LOL (as am I, but I don't pretend to not be). Calling him an idiot for his opinion, saying "you should learn that as soon as you use absolutes in your speech, you lose all credibility" which is an absolute. Get off your high horse and stop pretending youre a white knight protecting those poor people being abused by these hateful words. You are doing nothing but making yourself squirm in delight about how noble you are. People who feel use of those words are a very bad thing are GENERALLY children who need to get off the computer and actually interact in society. Learning how it affects other people in your sophomore sociology class doesn't make you an expert on anything.
Care to explain how "you should learn that as soon as you use absolutes in your speech, you lose all credibility" is an absolute? It's a fact. There is a difference, regardless of how similar the terms are. I also never pretended to be a 'white knight' protecting people who are 'being abused by these hateful words' I simply stated that I don't use them.
If I was a white knight I would go to rallies or beat up people who call people faggots. I don't, however I do ask people to not call other people faggots or n-words around me in person. I guess if you count that as being a 'white knight' then so be it, but our definitions would be different.
Also, if you believe that people who think using the N, G, and Fa words is very bad are generally children, then you live in a vastly different society than I do and would probably explain our difference of opinion. I don't know about you, but where I live you can't really go to the mall and call people faggots without people getting upset, but if you can then that's your societies problem (my opinion).
Edit:
On May 05 2012 11:19 Chocobo wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2012 09:08 genius_man16 wrote:On May 05 2012 07:42 Bulldog654 wrote:On May 05 2012 07:40 genius_man16 wrote:
I have yet to understand how this community absolutely LOVES E-Sports and wants it to go mainstream and yet when something like this happens people get upset?
If you want E-sports to go mainstream, then Destiny using racial slurs needs to stop ASAP. We as a community cannot 'go mainstream' if we continue to embrace people like Destiny when he is quite honestly a giant bigot. He can whine all he wants about "free speech" and how he doesn't use the n-word to offend anyone, but the fact is that the n-word is simply one of, if not THE most offensive word in the english language and you CANNOT use it and pretend like people who are offended by it are stupid.
Perhaps you err in assuming that the whole of the "community" even wants it to go mainstream. Perhaps, however it seems to be a vast majority sentiment, so I feel that my point still stands. On May 05 2012 07:51 MercilessMonkey wrote:On May 05 2012 07:44 Holytornados wrote:On May 05 2012 07:26 StarStrider wrote:On May 05 2012 07:24 dAPhREAk wrote:On May 05 2012 07:22 StarStrider wrote:We should have another TL poll like the one in "DJ Wheat saying Bitches" thread. I'm interested in just how many people there are on each side of this issue. + Show Spoiler +Poll: Is offensive/racial language a teamkick / TL-ban-worthy offense?It doesn't matter, it's not a big deal, people should just get over it and stop watching his strea (64) 43% Yes. Get that out of my esports. It is a blight to the professionalism of the scene. (51) 34% Only if he refuses to apologize and refrain from it in the future. (Warning) (18) 12% Language is what you make it. I should be able to say anything without you getting offended. (14) 9% Only if sponsors are on the line. Otherwise it doesn't matter. (2) 1% 149 total votes Your vote: Is offensive/racial language a teamkick / TL-ban-worthy offense? (Vote): Yes. Get that out of my esports. It is a blight to the professionalism of the scene.
(Vote): Only if sponsors are on the line. Otherwise it doesn't matter.
(Vote): Only if he refuses to apologize and refrain from it in the future. (Warning)
(Vote): It doesn't matter, it's not a big deal, people should just get over it and stop watching his strea
(Vote): Language is what you make it. I should be able to say anything without you getting offended.
what is offensive/racial language? Cunt, Nigger, Kike, Faggot, etc. I don't really see how cunt is offensive, and I've never personally heard the word Kike ever. Some feminists would tell you that cunt is the most offensive word you can use. Kike is a racist slur for asians? Idk, I never really see it used. On May 05 2012 07:40 Dante_A_ wrote:
I believe you should act online the way you would act in real life. As people have noted, it seems unlikely that Destiny (or others) would use such offensive language in real life. Why is it suddenly OK just because its online and "just a game"?
Pickup basketball is also just a game, yet it would be a pretty big offense to use these words to strangers on a basketball court.
Acting in a brazen and offensive manner online just because you can avoid the repercussions that would follow in real life is no excuse to do it. I don't disagree, I don't think it's necessarily "ok" to act like a dick on the internet when you wouldn't in real life. However, let's follow through with your analogy. If I called you a racist slur on the basketball court, which of the following is more likely: A) You tell me to go fuck myself, and don't play basketball with me anymore B) Go complain to my boss and try to get me fired I think it's pretty obvious the difference between the two. Not many people are saying that it's great for Destiny to be rude and offensive, but rather the reaction which resulted was unwarranted considering the other options. People who don't like his stream can just not watch it. I don't even watch his stream. But it's not like he did it at a tournament or live event or anything of the sort. Your two examples don't really fully explain the Destiny situation. If we are going to use the basketball example, "B" would be valid because you would be playing a basketball game as a representative of your company, so it would be justifiable for the person to go to your boss if you called him the n-word during said basketball game. What world do you live in? Are you six years old? If someone called you a racial slur, you'd go "tell on him" to his boss and try to get him fired? I'm so disappointed in the TL community, I really didn't think things had fallen this far. I might just use this site for nothing more than stream monitoring from now on... this place has turned into the Christian Moms' Morality Police club.
If we are going to use the basketball analogy and make it as similar to the Destiny situation as possible then no; I would not 'tell on him' to his boss because the basketball game would be a public game with both of our bosses and our friends watching, and he would call me the n-word in front of everyone, so there would be no need to 'tell on him' to his boss, because it would have been in a public setting for other people to see.
However as MercilessMonkey pointed out, the basketball analogy is fairly flawed for accurately depicting the type of privacy or lack thereof of Destiny's stream.
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On May 05 2012 10:57 genius_man16 wrote:
So it's fine to say anything you want regardless of who your employers are? One thing you seem to forget is Destiny is (or was I guess) representing both the Quantic organization and all of it's sponsors. It would be akin to Tom Brady going to an interview and calling all the media giant n-words. You somehow expect him to just be like "free speech" and/or "i'm not racist!" and everyone will totally not care that he used the N-word?
I hope you grow up and go to job interviews and use the n-word and expect them to not care because you tell them "oh it's okay I'm not really racist."
Context is everything.
Except you know they hired him knowing full well that he does say these words. Right, because going to a job interview is the same as this situation ._. Nice analogy.
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On May 05 2012 10:58 dmasterding wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2012 10:55 kittensrcute wrote:On May 05 2012 10:47 aebriol wrote:
I wonder how many people that are against Destiny, are against other entertainers that use terms that can be seen as offensive.
Like, oh, most any rappers ...
Or hell, anyone that use the word 'bitch'
Destiny ... is not a top level progamer first and foremost, he is an entertaining streamer, for an adult audience.
I don't see why there's not room for that in the sc2 community.
I just don't feel like he should be sponsored to represent the SC2 community. He is not representing the SC2 community when he is talking relatively privately on his stream where it clearly says explicit language. To judge him for that is just inane in my opinion.
"Privately on his stream" is kind of an oxymoron. That's like saying, privately in front of 2,000 people. If a news anchor on television said something like that during a broadcast, it would not be considered private.
On May 05 2012 11:20 BeeNu wrote:
You don't strike me as a particularily clever man. Destiny never used video game violence to justify his actions, he used video game violence to draw a comparison that shows the hypocrisy of people calling him out over "racist" slang. Basically, he is saying that it's entirely arbitrary for people to act so offended over "racist" words when words like "rape" and "murder" allude to far more offensive acts than anything in any racial slur yet nobody has a problem with these terms being thrown around simply because you've all been brainwashed to blindly hate anything deemed "racist" and completely ignore context and reason.
Uhh, well ... I suppose that would depend on where you place concepts like "war" and "genocide" on your little scale of ugly things.
Explicit language is not the same as offensive language. If someone had tagged his stream "warning: contains language that may be offensive to certain ethnic groups", he might have been able to walk out of here with deniability.
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Oh wow.. this thread is ridiculous.
Maybe he was kinda funny earlier on but as other people get better, there is not much value from his stream.
The only time it has "entertainment value" is when he trolls low leagues, plays with likes of CombatEx or Deezer or go on some tangent with his personal issues. I am glad ad block was invented.
Meh.. no interest in the stream whatsoever now when I can watch players like Stephano (10k viewer.. wooot) or Losira.
Wishing Destinee best of luck.
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On May 05 2012 11:14 whiterabbit wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2012 11:08 Ballistixz wrote:
i just want to say that when the community does shit like what happened with orb and now destiny they are shooting themselves in there own foot multiple times. keep it up and the entire scene will die a very slow and painful death. To be honest scene won't move further anyway if we have prominent scene figures acting like racist and/or homophobes on daily basis. I also agree that if people are displeased by behavior should talk to teams and players first, but in this situation Quantic was well aware of Destiny and didn't do anything about it. Personally, I don't want the scene where acting like he does is globally accepted as "awesome". That's just me of course!
I don't get why people say this all the time.
first, he has never used it during a tournament, that was his private stream and had warnings/mature lauguage/inappropriate language warning sign before you even go there.
In fact, shouldn't we all email sponsors for whoever doesn't put up the warning sign (video game violence etc) because the game is 15+ and no one under 15 should be watching it?
(You even get a NUKE and STIM pack in the game, you want a scene that is gonna have those features then? Nuke trauma and drugs are ok now?)
second, I have used this example before and will use again.
Ray Charles, the one that dominated 60s pop, country etc music was known to take drugs and have multiple affairs.
Did it stop the grow of the music genre? No, it exploded
Are you suggesting drug usage and cheating are better than non personal targeting racist slur?
I sure hope you find music is globally awesome
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On May 05 2012 11:20 BeeNu wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2012 11:17 RmoteCntrld wrote:
I love how Destiny tries to justify using racial slurs by saying the game is violent. Shows how truly clueless he is, sad really. You don't strike me as a particularily clever man. Destiny never used video game violence to justify his actions, he used video game violence to draw a comparison that shows the hypocrisy of people calling him out over "racist" slang. Basically, he is saying that it's entirely arbitrary for people to act so offended over "racist" words when words like "rape" and "murder" allude to far more offensive acts than anything in any racial slur yet nobody has a problem with these terms being thrown around simply because you've all been brainwashed to blindly hate anything deemed "racist" and completely ignore context and reason.
Well, if Destiny's career plan includes living in a self-deluded bubble of self-righteousness until there is massive paradigm shift that accepts his worldview that includes calling people gooks 'for funsies', than all the power to him.
I couldn't give two shits if he has to wait 200 years in his cave until cyborgs take over the earth.
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He also thinks LoL > Dota2 lmfao
User was warned for this post
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Shouldn't he be looking for a LoL team, not an sc2 one?
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On May 05 2012 11:42 ETisME wrote:
Ray Charles, the one that dominated 60s pop, country etc music was known to take drugs and have multiple affairs.
Did it stop the grow of the music genre? No, it exploded
Are you suggesting drug usage and cheating are better than non personal targeting racist slur?
I sure hope you find music is globally awesome
Bro, Ray Charles was a brilliant, gifted savant musician that brought R'n'B into the mainstream.
Destiny is a masters-to-GM SC2 player that survives off people watching him troll other players on the internet. He's about as significant to his field as a funny bartender is to the food industry.
Trust me guys, WE'LL SURVIVE THIS!!!!!!
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Of all the wtf'ness in this thread, the Ray charles rant takes the cake.
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On May 05 2012 10:49 BeeNu wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2012 10:46 Malgrif wrote:
all he does by being himself is hurt himself Sure, if by "hurt himself" you mean "refuses to bend to mob mentality". Show nested quote +On May 05 2012 10:47 aebriol wrote:
I wonder how many people that are against Destiny, are against other entertainers that use terms that can be seen as offensive.
Like, oh, most any rappers ...
Or hell, anyone that use the word 'bitch'
Destiny ... is not a top level progamer first and foremost, he is an entertaining streamer, for an adult audience.
I don't see why there's not room for that in the sc2 community.
imo we are getting this problem because this community is filled with entitled little suburban kids craving power in any form they can find it in, I really, really doubt these folks give two damns about the ethical factors in any of this, they just see a way to fuck with a progamer and jump at the chance.
"mob mentality"? Living in a society where people cannot throw racist language each other than people find offensive is part of a "mob"?
If anything, the little entitled suburban kids are white knights like you rushing to defend destiny for calling everyone niggers because, well, you want to call everyone niggers.
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On May 05 2012 11:50 Defacer wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2012 11:42 ETisME wrote:
Ray Charles, the one that dominated 60s pop, country etc music was known to take drugs and have multiple affairs.
Did it stop the grow of the music genre? No, it exploded
Are you suggesting drug usage and cheating are better than non personal targeting racist slur?
I sure hope you find music is globally awesome Bro, Ray Charles was a brilliant, gifted savant musician that brought R'n'B into the mainstream. Destiny is a masters-to-GM SC2 player that survives off people watching him troll other players on the internet. He's about as significant to his field as a funny bartender is to the food industry. Trust me guys, WE'LL SURVIVE THIS!!!!!!
So then are you saying that if Destiny was ray charles of SC2, then his bad doings are ok, even if it is not socially acceptable?
I don't see people saying "he isn't good enough so he cannot use racist slur/take drugs"
I see people saying Destiny is bad for the scene because he is a figure head (which ray charles is even a bigger one in the world) and yet one is considered to be ok?
It's just this logic that really confuses me
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We are truly living in a racist time and its time to embrace the situation at hand. I think as a community we need to report everyone for any type of BM to all sponsors even if there not on a team. This way they wont ever have sponsors or teams.
I believe IdrA is just terrible now do to the fact that he can't BM stylistically to his nature and that is what made him good. The results don't lie.
In conclusion the only way to solve our problems is to make a short 20-30 min video discussing the issue and spread the message to everyone we know. We then set a date to put up posters of Orb on every inch of our planet.
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On May 05 2012 11:58 ETisME wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2012 11:50 Defacer wrote:On May 05 2012 11:42 ETisME wrote:
Ray Charles, the one that dominated 60s pop, country etc music was known to take drugs and have multiple affairs.
Did it stop the grow of the music genre? No, it exploded
Are you suggesting drug usage and cheating are better than non personal targeting racist slur?
I sure hope you find music is globally awesome Bro, Ray Charles was a brilliant, gifted savant musician that brought R'n'B into the mainstream. Destiny is a masters-to-GM SC2 player that survives off people watching him troll other players on the internet. He's about as significant to his field as a funny bartender is to the food industry. Trust me guys, WE'LL SURVIVE THIS!!!!!! So then are you saying that if Destiny was ray charles of SC2, then his bad doings are ok, even if it is not socially acceptable? I don't see people saying "he isn't good enough so he cannot use racist slur/take drugs" I see people saying Destiny is bad for the scene because he is a figure head (which ray charles is even a bigger one in the world) and yet one is considered to be ok? It's just this logic that really confuses me
You lost me at Ray Charles.
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EPT
