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Keep this civil, guys |
On May 05 2012 09:58 HikariPrime wrote:
A lot of my friends have been black and asian, been there, done that, no harm has come to me. Thanks. Knowing how to mean what you say and how to joke is pretty good skill to have.
Why am I not surprised that you were unable to defend anything you've said?
I said go out in public and say those things, not make ignorant jokes with presumably like-minded friends. I didn't say any harm would come to you but it's pretty telling that your mind went directly there. It seems like you understand how the general public would react.
In a situation truly comparable to the case being discussed you would have called a black friend "nigger" out of anger and clearly as an insult. I highly doubt that wouldn't cause an unpleasant reaction.
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The one thing I never hear from people is in 100000 posts. The guy did not have to post that he was called a gook. Could have just let it go. But he brought it over here. People took it hook, line and sinker. He provoked Destiny first with streams of BM and a offensive GG. Nobody cares about that fact what people do care about are just a few meaningless insults.
Same thing everywhere. Some guy posts his Autistic son was abused by teachers. We get on our horse and demand this teacher be fired NOW. No hearing the other side, just a call to arms and a tacit agreement if some viral video gets posted we end that threat NOW. Now it's a viral photo and a promise to end Destiny NOW.
White-Knighting is an interesting term. You know who else were white knights? The KKK Lynch Mobs dressed in white too.
How does Destiny know a guy is Korean? Did anyone think that far? How does a player know a guy is gay on the Internet but gets removed from the community for saying faggot? Anyone think of that? No TL just reacts.
But we just have to join the bandwagon no critical thought just reaction. See a photo, don't get Destiny's reaction first just send email to sponsors.
People could have said... dang that's a shame yo. Then consoled the guy and moved on. But no the way things work here, you say something we don't like we end you. Just like that.
Destiny is a individual person who says what he wants. You can say what you want and that makes it even. But you are getting into someones personal business with someone else and hurting their lives then that gives you more power than you deserve. We are not a police state or a nanny state we should be fair and balanced to everyone and give everyone DUE PROCESS.
We costed Destiny thousands of dollars, what did he cost you huh? We cost Quantic sponsorship money. TL will lose out too. All you were cost was what, being offended? Hope you are happy.
Ban me I don't care I am out.
User was temp banned for this post.
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Australia8532 Posts
On May 05 2012 09:42 Orracle wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2012 09:38 Dental Floss wrote:
"I'm not a racist you guys.... I just like calling people niggers when they do something I don't like"
What a fucking joke. How can you say that? Destiny's goal was to impose anger upon his opponent. I'm sure we both agree with that. By calling him a gook(having such thin skin), he did get offended apparently. In no way, shape, or form, does that make him a racist.
If you honestly believe that just because "i am not a racist, i promise i am not a racist" allows me to spurt whatever racial slur comes to mind, then i guess there are very few things we can ever agree on.
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God I wish people would grow up and differentiate between someone saying something and someone meaning something. Fuck, there was another thread for this debate... It got closed due to the sheer amount of stupid replies.
Why does this shit create so many keyboard warriors who don't give a shit about day to day racism but care so much when it is convenient and can fuck someone popular over?
Edit: If you actually believe Destiny is a racist, then you have some serious issues. Why would he raise money for 'Doctors without Borders' ???
God I despair at this so called 'community'. Clearly not moved on from the 14/15th century witch hunts....
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On May 05 2012 10:01 jnsjr wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2012 09:48 HikariPrime wrote:On May 05 2012 09:38 Detwiler wrote:On May 05 2012 09:28 HikariPrime wrote:On May 05 2012 09:24 Detwiler wrote:
This community continues to amaze me. Do people even think before they post? The defenders of destiny do you hear yourselves? Man whats this scene doming to when players cant call people niggers and gooks in public god i cant believe this shit im leaving! The fuck how old are you? Where are you from that its acceptable for a brand representative to say these things in public huh? 16, living in United States of America with the constitution to protect me and my rights to free speech and the context of how i use said speech. Unless you know, you have people who deliberately go out of there way to find a hate crime ( that doesnt actually exist (oh noes he used a bad word ) in this situation ) and for a moderation team to get butt hurt cause white guys getting mad at him "offending" asians. ( btw im asian ) Ah 16 explains everything. Yeah, i bet it does to you. Not to me, I have no idea what you mean by " explains everything" My age isnt relevant to what i know compared to you. Yay for free speech. I just finished my Con Law II exam, and feel like sharing some knowledge for those that are interested! Not all speech is protected, and the governing SCOTUS case is Chaplinsky v. New Hampshire. Some highlights for you -- some forms of speech have such minimal social value that they are not entitled to any 1st amendment protection including defamation, obscenity, and fighting words (personal insults likely to cause retaliation). Other interesting cases are Beauharnais v. Illinois and Wisconsin v. Mitchell. The SCOTUS also has funny distinctions on what it considers speech, and conduct, which are regulated and protected differently. All very interesting stuff.
Indeed, except you know , they weren't introduced when the constitution was written and was therefor introduced by political correct bull. Thanks for that though.
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On May 05 2012 10:05 Orracle wrote:
Now, you're walking out in a shopping center, a guy goes up to you and starts insulting you. Calls you a faggot, etc.
Right, because doing an all-in strategy is totally comparable to walking up to a stranger in a mall and calling them a faggot.
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On May 05 2012 10:09 Silvertine wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2012 09:58 HikariPrime wrote:
A lot of my friends have been black and asian, been there, done that, no harm has come to me. Thanks. Knowing how to mean what you say and how to joke is pretty good skill to have. Why am I not surprised that you were unable to defend anything you've said? I said go out in public and say those things, not make ignorant jokes with presumably like-minded friends. I didn't say any harm would come to you but it's pretty telling that your mind went directly there. It seems like you understand how the general public would react. In a situation truly comparable to the case being discussed you would have called a black friend "nigger" out of anger and clearly as an insult. I highly doubt that wouldn't cause an unpleasant reaction.
Actually i did, its just i dont know the entire quote system tl uses and just erased it all cause i don't give a damn. Except all of you give a damn about someone elses life. Maybe, ive done so before. They seem to not give it as much power as you do, but you obviously know more.
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On May 05 2012 10:12 Silvertine wrote:
Right, because doing an all-in strategy is totally comparable to walking up to a stranger in a mall and calling them a faggot.
Of course it's not the exact same thing. If you managed to read, you'd have noticed I said 1 base all-ins are very frowned upon by NA/EU players. It's blatantly obvious it's frowned upon when you hear people raged that GSL games consisted of allins. You can go to the BM thread, and look at people threatening to kill someone because of their play. But yes, it's comparable.
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And yet again it comes down to the intolerance of a few stuck up kids who can't see context when someone says something. Sad to see we let a minority overtake the scene for raging because they 1) never get to the same level and 2) want to screw things over.
Myself when I stream, I may curse like a sailor or not, but that's my choice. I do not like to hide my true meaning behind fancy words to make people feel better, while it often is better to just say it straight up.
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On May 05 2012 10:01 jnsjr wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2012 09:48 HikariPrime wrote:On May 05 2012 09:38 Detwiler wrote:On May 05 2012 09:28 HikariPrime wrote:On May 05 2012 09:24 Detwiler wrote:
This community continues to amaze me. Do people even think before they post? The defenders of destiny do you hear yourselves? Man whats this scene doming to when players cant call people niggers and gooks in public god i cant believe this shit im leaving! The fuck how old are you? Where are you from that its acceptable for a brand representative to say these things in public huh? 16, living in United States of America with the constitution to protect me and my rights to free speech and the context of how i use said speech. Unless you know, you have people who deliberately go out of there way to find a hate crime ( that doesnt actually exist (oh noes he used a bad word ) in this situation ) and for a moderation team to get butt hurt cause white guys getting mad at him "offending" asians. ( btw im asian ) Ah 16 explains everything. Yeah, i bet it does to you. Not to me, I have no idea what you mean by " explains everything" My age isnt relevant to what i know compared to you. Yay for free speech. I just finished my Con Law II exam, and feel like sharing some knowledge for those that are interested! Not all speech is protected, and the governing SCOTUS case is Chaplinsky v. New Hampshire. Some highlights for you -- some forms of speech have such minimal social value that they are not entitled to any 1st amendment protection including defamation, obscenity, and fighting words (personal insults likely to cause retaliation). Other interesting cases are Beauharnais v. Illinois and Wisconsin v. Mitchell. The SCOTUS also has funny distinctions on what it considers speech, and conduct, which are regulated and protected differently. All very interesting stuff.
I took AP gov and pol, along with IB HL history as a 17 yr old. That kind of shallow knowledge that the 1st ammendment protects me from ERRETHANG, is just not true. Especially on the internet where supreme court decision has shown that the internet does not constitute free speech in the first ammendment. The fact is that there are things in our society in the U.S. (strictly the U.S. because Destiny is American) that do not constitute speech because they do not have any form of value. This can be in things like pornography which is categorized under prostitution.
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On May 05 2012 10:11 HikariPrime wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2012 10:01 jnsjr wrote:On May 05 2012 09:48 HikariPrime wrote:On May 05 2012 09:38 Detwiler wrote:On May 05 2012 09:28 HikariPrime wrote:On May 05 2012 09:24 Detwiler wrote:
This community continues to amaze me. Do people even think before they post? The defenders of destiny do you hear yourselves? Man whats this scene doming to when players cant call people niggers and gooks in public god i cant believe this shit im leaving! The fuck how old are you? Where are you from that its acceptable for a brand representative to say these things in public huh? 16, living in United States of America with the constitution to protect me and my rights to free speech and the context of how i use said speech. Unless you know, you have people who deliberately go out of there way to find a hate crime ( that doesnt actually exist (oh noes he used a bad word ) in this situation ) and for a moderation team to get butt hurt cause white guys getting mad at him "offending" asians. ( btw im asian ) Ah 16 explains everything. Yeah, i bet it does to you. Not to me, I have no idea what you mean by " explains everything" My age isnt relevant to what i know compared to you. Yay for free speech. I just finished my Con Law II exam, and feel like sharing some knowledge for those that are interested! Not all speech is protected, and the governing SCOTUS case is Chaplinsky v. New Hampshire. Some highlights for you -- some forms of speech have such minimal social value that they are not entitled to any 1st amendment protection including defamation, obscenity, and fighting words (personal insults likely to cause retaliation). Other interesting cases are Beauharnais v. Illinois and Wisconsin v. Mitchell. The SCOTUS also has funny distinctions on what it considers speech, and conduct, which are regulated and protected differently. All very interesting stuff. Indeed, except you know , they weren't introduced when the constitution was written and was therefor introduced by political correct bull. Thanks for that though.
I'm not sure what the point of your post is. Regardless of if you agree with the law or not, it still remains the governing law of the land. In addition, it was decided by the one unaccountable and supposedly apolitical branch of our government (chuckle). That is the governing case which describes the limits of our free speech. I thought you would be interested in how far that protection extends. It is not an absolute protection.
And just to be clear, I am not making any opinions/distinctions on whether using racial slurs on the internet is protected speech.
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On May 05 2012 10:14 HikariPrime wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2012 10:09 Silvertine wrote:On May 05 2012 09:58 HikariPrime wrote:
A lot of my friends have been black and asian, been there, done that, no harm has come to me. Thanks. Knowing how to mean what you say and how to joke is pretty good skill to have. Why am I not surprised that you were unable to defend anything you've said? I said go out in public and say those things, not make ignorant jokes with presumably like-minded friends. I didn't say any harm would come to you but it's pretty telling that your mind went directly there. It seems like you understand how the general public would react. In a situation truly comparable to the case being discussed you would have called a black friend "nigger" out of anger and clearly as an insult. I highly doubt that wouldn't cause an unpleasant reaction. Maybe, ive done so before. They seem to not give it as much power as you do, but you obviously know more.
You're saying that you called a black person "nigger" out of anger and they weren't upset? Why do I not believe you? And if that's true then it reflects very poorly upon you and gives insight into why you think what Destiny did was justified.
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It's good that Destiny realizes the ramifications that hate speech can have on an organization and its sponsors but really that should have been something he learned day 1 when signing with a professional team. This all could have been avoided if Destiny simply acted more mature and used speech that greatly upsets specific demographics.
I'd like Destiny to learn from this and be able to entertain his fans without giving off the impression that he is both mentally 14-years-old and a bigot. If he doesn't want to, that is fine, but I would prefer he do that without being a representation (whether he considers himself one or not doesn't matter) of the SC2 community.
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On May 05 2012 10:09 Silvertine wrote:
In a situation truly comparable to the case being discussed you would have called a black friend "nigger" out of anger and clearly as an insult. I highly doubt that wouldn't cause an unpleasant reaction.
I've done so myself, and if the said friend is unable to pierce through that emotional state of mind, then perhaps said friend is not a "friend" but an acquaintance. My friends know I am obnoxious when I am really at my limit, and they accepted that because they know, once I calm down, I just used the words to vent frustration, rather than really insult them.
Perhaps it's good that people look further than the narrowsighted approach most seem to have now.
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On May 05 2012 10:19 setzer wrote:
It's good that Destiny realizes the ramifications that hate speech can have on an organization and its sponsors but really that should have been something he learned day 1 when signing with a professional team. This all could have been avoided if Destiny simply acted more mature and used speech that greatly upsets specific demographics.
I'd like Destiny to learn from this and be able to entertain his fans without giving off the impression that he is both mentally 14-years-old and a bigot. If he doesn't want to, that is fine, but I would prefer he do that without being a representation (whether he considers himself one or not doesn't matter) of the SC2 community.
You realize Quantic was fully aware of Destiny's personality? You know Complexity/Destiny didn't ever sign a contract because they knew of Destiny's personality? This was something Quantic should have been prepared for, especially after the whole Orb fiasco.
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On May 05 2012 10:20 Aelonius wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2012 10:09 Silvertine wrote:
In a situation truly comparable to the case being discussed you would have called a black friend "nigger" out of anger and clearly as an insult. I highly doubt that wouldn't cause an unpleasant reaction.
I've done so myself, and if the said friend is unable to pierce through that emotional state of mind, then perhaps said friend is not a "friend" but an acquaintance. My friends know I am obnoxious when I am really at my limit, and they accepted that because they know, once I calm down, I just used the words to vent frustration, rather than really insult them. Perhaps it's good that people look further than the narrowsighted approach most seem to have now.
Another person admitting to calling a black friend "nigger" out of anger... my lord. What is wrong with you people? And then you say that he shouldn't be considered a true friend if he let it get to him. You're the one betraying friendship in that instance, not him.
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On May 05 2012 10:15 Aelonius wrote:
Sad to see we let a minority overtake the scene...
If you're trying to sell yourself as not a bigot you probably should watch how you word these things...
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On May 05 2012 09:38 Silvertine wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2012 09:11 HikariPrime wrote:
Do you see all these other pros giving out free advice always? no, you dont Well his job is streaming whereas the job of a pro is to practice and attend tournaments, so of course you would expect him to give out more advice to his viewers. And actually, it's very common for pros to stream with commentary and give advice. Most of them have a much higher level of understanding too, so it's more valuable. Show nested quote +Banning someones cause of his freedom of speech didnt go the way you wanted. No, that's not the reason he was banned at all. You can go read the explanation given in the ban list. Show nested quote +He's right about context of using words and there is even a term for it. The Locutionary act. Nobody is arguing that context doesn't exist in language. You're arguing against a ridiculously basic straw man. The particular context in this case is that Destiny was mad at an Asian person so he called him a "gook". How exactly does that context lend itself to his defense? Show nested quote +When you display words that Society doesn't like, why is it bad besides political correctness? Because you're causing unnecessary pain to a particular person and the race to which that person belongs. Of course there isn't physical harm... what is your point? Very little reason? The terms being discussed are some of the most vile, offensive words in the English language. Show nested quote +Some of YOU should grow up, you hate on him because he says bad words and raises almost 40k for charity, good on you. People could care less about him saying "bad words". In fact, this community is extremely tolerant when it comes to "foul language". He could have said "Go fuck yourself asshole" and no one would have cared. The issue is that he repeatedly uses racial slurs. Show nested quote +You can call me a retarded destiny fanboy ( like the majority of people who dont like destiny ) but then you are being so hypocritical on the situation and using an offensive word such as retard  Well done, you really took that imagined response to task. Show nested quote +tl;dr Destiny did more for the community than a lot of people/pros, gets suspended by teamliquid and lynched by people who no nothing of how society and language works. Go out in public and call people "niggers" and "gooks", you'll receive a good lesson in how society works.
What? He will get beat up by Asians and blacks and they will be justified? Fuck that society.
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On May 05 2012 10:20 Orracle wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2012 10:19 setzer wrote:
It's good that Destiny realizes the ramifications that hate speech can have on an organization and its sponsors but really that should have been something he learned day 1 when signing with a professional team. This all could have been avoided if Destiny simply acted more mature and used speech that greatly upsets specific demographics.
I'd like Destiny to learn from this and be able to entertain his fans without giving off the impression that he is both mentally 14-years-old and a bigot. If he doesn't want to, that is fine, but I would prefer he do that without being a representation (whether he considers himself one or not doesn't matter) of the SC2 community. You realize Quantic was fully aware of Destiny's personality? You know Complexity/Destiny didn't ever sign a contract because they knew of Destiny's personality? This was something Quantic should have been prepared for, especially after the whole Orb fiasco.
And policies chance. Obviously when they acquire huge sponsorships companies like Razer it is expected to better represent oneself to protect that investment. Quantic would be at fault if they didn't properly communicate this with Destiny.
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