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Keep this civil, guys |
On May 05 2012 09:14 Orracle wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2012 09:09 the`postman wrote:On May 05 2012 08:46 Frunkis wrote:On May 05 2012 08:20 sevencck wrote:
The words you're referring to are not "meaningless." In fact, they carry with them hundreds of years of oppression, slavery, death, despair, and savagery. It's really quite infantile to try to argue those words are meaningless. Perhaps you've never been on the receiving end of derogatory slurs disparaging you for something you can't change and structuring you as an outsider that doesn't belong. Maybe you have, but based on your comment I doubt it.
. See what I mean? Getting offended makes people feel important and self-righteous. You can barely contain yourself. Awww do words hurt? How sad. Words don't carry with them slavery and death and whatever melodramatic garbage you can think up. YOU associate those things. YOU choose to be offended and choose to give those words more power than they deserve. Just because you're a racist doesn't mean other people can't use those words and not be a racist. If you used those words with all your thoughts and intents of oppression and despair then yes, maybe you genuinely shouldn't use those words because you clearly have issues. That doesn't mean no one should be able to use those words and that everyone should get the punishment that you would deserve for using them. This is such a childish point of view, you can honestly believe that all of these people choose to be offended. The majority of those that sent letters out I would guarantee are white males. Yes, it is their choice to be offended. That word doesn't pertain to a white male in anyway, shape, or form. If some one were to call me every racial word for being Jewish, it would be MY choice to get offended(granted I wouldn't be). Words are what you make them. This is coming from a person who doesn't care for Destiny. Hopefully this will have no effect on Destiny whatsoever, and he keeps his personality/stream up though.
Because white males don't have a right to feel offended at explicit language. Your argument doesn't make sense at all, no one chooses to be offended you don't choose how you feel. This is like having your child being emotionally bullied in school and telling him not to care because 'sticks and stones' right?
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On May 05 2012 08:46 Frunkis wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2012 08:20 sevencck wrote:
The words you're referring to are not "meaningless." In fact, they carry with them hundreds of years of oppression, slavery, death, despair, and savagery. It's really quite infantile to try to argue those words are meaningless. Perhaps you've never been on the receiving end of derogatory slurs disparaging you for something you can't change and structuring you as an outsider that doesn't belong. Maybe you have, but based on your comment I doubt it.
. See what I mean? Getting offended makes people feel important and self-righteous. You can barely contain yourself. Awww do words hurt? How sad. Words don't carry with them slavery and death and whatever melodramatic garbage you can think up. YOU associate those things. YOU choose to be offended and choose to give those words more power than they deserve. Just because you're a racist doesn't mean other people can't use those words and not be a racist. If you used those words with all your thoughts and intents of oppression and despair then yes, maybe you genuinely shouldn't use those words because you clearly have issues. That doesn't mean no one should be able to use those words and that everyone should get the punishment that you would deserve for using them.
So, "Fuck Off Gook". The words were specifically chosen because they cause the most possible hurt. The person using them understands this. They understand the 'melodramatic garbage' is the reason why the words are so effective. That's why they picked those words.
Whether or not they are 'really' thinking racist thoughts deep down inside... who knows. They are at least choosing to pretend to be a racist because they understand that acting like that causes that person the most pain.
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Really sad that it has come to this, can't believe that the SC2/TL community would do this, really disappointed.
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On May 05 2012 09:09 Falcor wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2012 08:20 sevencck wrote:On May 05 2012 08:01 Frunkis wrote:On May 05 2012 07:38 sevencck wrote:
Has it occurred to anyone that his dismissal from Quantic was less about his usage of the words he used, but more about his subsequent defiant insistence that he had done nothing wrong? Not that I necessarily agree with the "community," but if Destiny had simply apologized and said he was wrong, it might have ended at that. I can't speak for the mods, of course, but it seems like he wouldn't have even been banned from TL at that point.
He claims the apology would have been disingenuous, but all that means is that he's not sorry and that he doesn't believe he did anything worthy of an apology. The totality of Destiny's point apparently was that he has free speech, and therefore he can say what he wants and doesn't need to care what the community thinks about it. Cool. If he's gonna blaze his own trail and thumb his nose at the community, however, then noone is to blame but him if the community turns around and rejects him. Not the community, not TL, not the mods, not Quantic, just him.
He dug his own grave with a smile on his face. Hope he's still smiling when he has to lay down in it. He wasn't really racist when he used the words and he wouldn't really be sorry if he apologized. What is people's obsession with meaningless words? Oh wait, I know. It's because acting offended makes people feel important and self-righteous and making people apologize makes people feel powerful. It's pathetic. The words you're referring to are not "meaningless." In fact, they carry with them hundreds of years of oppression, slavery, death, despair, and savagery. It's really quite infantile to try to argue those words are meaningless. Perhaps you've never been on the receiving end of derogatory slurs disparaging you for something you can't change and structuring you as an outsider that doesn't belong. Maybe you have, but based on your comment I doubt it. you should really learn the history of these words your talking about. What destiny said "gook" has nothing to do with oppression or slavery. It originally was used for prostitues...and then during the korean war gook ment korean...In a offensive way but still only ment korean. But if you ment Nigger, it actually wasn't derogatory when it first was used it was just another word which pretty much ment "black" it wasn't until the 1800's during the american revolution that it became derogatory.
I purposefully avoided using specific words, and instead made a general comment. Your clarification isn't particularly meaningful, I don't need an in depth understanding of the etymology of racial slurs for my point to stand.
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On May 05 2012 09:14 Orracle wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2012 09:09 the`postman wrote:On May 05 2012 08:46 Frunkis wrote:On May 05 2012 08:20 sevencck wrote:
The words you're referring to are not "meaningless." In fact, they carry with them hundreds of years of oppression, slavery, death, despair, and savagery. It's really quite infantile to try to argue those words are meaningless. Perhaps you've never been on the receiving end of derogatory slurs disparaging you for something you can't change and structuring you as an outsider that doesn't belong. Maybe you have, but based on your comment I doubt it.
. See what I mean? Getting offended makes people feel important and self-righteous. You can barely contain yourself. Awww do words hurt? How sad. Words don't carry with them slavery and death and whatever melodramatic garbage you can think up. YOU associate those things. YOU choose to be offended and choose to give those words more power than they deserve. Just because you're a racist doesn't mean other people can't use those words and not be a racist. If you used those words with all your thoughts and intents of oppression and despair then yes, maybe you genuinely shouldn't use those words because you clearly have issues. That doesn't mean no one should be able to use those words and that everyone should get the punishment that you would deserve for using them. This is such a childish point of view, you can honestly believe that all of these people choose to be offended. The majority of those that sent letters out I would guarantee are white males. Yes, it is their choice to be offended. That word doesn't pertain to a white male in anyway, shape, or form. If some one were to call me every racial word for being Jewish, it would be MY choice to get offended(granted I wouldn't be). Words are what you make them. This is coming from a person who doesn't care for Destiny. Hopefully this will have no effect on Destiny whatsoever, and he keeps his personality/stream up though.
So if you go tell a rape joke to someone who was abused, or a dead baby joke to someone who had a miscarriage you think they are just going to choose to be offended?
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On May 05 2012 09:17 lisward wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2012 09:14 Orracle wrote:
The majority of those that sent letters out I would guarantee are white males. Yes, it is their choice to be offended. That word doesn't pertain to a white male in anyway, shape, or form. If some one were to call me every racial word for being Jewish, it would be MY choice to get offended(granted I wouldn't be). Words are what you make them. This is coming from a person who doesn't care for Destiny. Hopefully this will have no effect on Destiny whatsoever, and he keeps his personality/stream up though. Because white males don't have a right to feel offended at explicit language. Your argument doesn't make sense at all, no one chooses to be offended you don't choose how you feel. This is like having your child being emotionally bullied in school and telling him not to care because 'sticks and stones' right?
You don't choose how you feel? Do you understand how illogical and silly that sounds?
So if you're playing a game of SC2, and before your opponent leaves he says, "Fuck you bitch!" Would you feel to choose angry because he just insulted you? Or would you brush it off, because it doesn't matter? Oh, that's right! You're choosing how you feel!
On May 05 2012 09:21 the`postman wrote:
So if you go tell a rape joke to someone who was abused, or a dead baby joke to someone who had a miscarriage you think they are just going to choose to be offended?
Good point you make. Suddenly, "I'm going to rape you!" is offensive now? So that can't be said in game for fear of your opponent having been raped? The fact is, if a girl wants to hang on to emotional baggage of having had a miscarriage that is absolutely, you guessed it, her choice. I've dated girls who have had their "rape story"(haven't we all), which I never bothered to listen to. But they were never sensitive about the subject. If it were to cut to a scene in the movie, or a topic of it would come up, they would never be hesitant or angry. Why? Because it's, you guessed it, their choice!
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This community continues to amaze me. Do people even think before they post? The defenders of destiny do you hear yourselves? Man whats this scene doming to when players cant call people niggers and gooks in public god i cant believe this shit im leaving! The fuck how old are you? Where are you from that its acceptable for a brand representative to say these things in public huh?
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On May 05 2012 09:24 Detwiler wrote:
This community continues to amaze me. Do people even think before they post? The defenders of destiny do you hear yourselves? Man whats this scene doming to when players cant call people niggers and gooks in public god i cant believe this shit im leaving! The fuck how old are you? Where are you from that its acceptable for a brand representative to say these things in public huh?
Is calling somebody those names on an online video game public?
Is their own personal stream even considered "public"?
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Disappointed in the parts of the community that contributed to this turn of events.
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On May 05 2012 09:24 Detwiler wrote:
This community continues to amaze me. Do people even think before they post? The defenders of destiny do you hear yourselves? Man whats this scene doming to when players cant call people niggers and gooks in public god i cant believe this shit im leaving! The fuck how old are you? Where are you from that its acceptable for a brand representative to say these things in public huh?
16, living in United States of America with the constitution to protect me and my rights to free speech and the context of how i use said speech. Unless you know, you have people who deliberately go out of there way to find a hate crime ( that doesnt actually exist (oh noes he used a bad word ) in this situation ) and for a moderation team to get butt hurt cause white guys getting mad at him "offending" asians. ( btw im asian )
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On May 05 2012 09:19 JackDT wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2012 08:46 Frunkis wrote:On May 05 2012 08:20 sevencck wrote:
The words you're referring to are not "meaningless." In fact, they carry with them hundreds of years of oppression, slavery, death, despair, and savagery. It's really quite infantile to try to argue those words are meaningless. Perhaps you've never been on the receiving end of derogatory slurs disparaging you for something you can't change and structuring you as an outsider that doesn't belong. Maybe you have, but based on your comment I doubt it.
. See what I mean? Getting offended makes people feel important and self-righteous. You can barely contain yourself. Awww do words hurt? How sad. Words don't carry with them slavery and death and whatever melodramatic garbage you can think up. YOU associate those things. YOU choose to be offended and choose to give those words more power than they deserve. Just because you're a racist doesn't mean other people can't use those words and not be a racist. If you used those words with all your thoughts and intents of oppression and despair then yes, maybe you genuinely shouldn't use those words because you clearly have issues. That doesn't mean no one should be able to use those words and that everyone should get the punishment that you would deserve for using them. So, "Fuck Off Gook". The words were specifically chosen because they cause the most possible hurt. The person using them understands this. They understand the 'melodramatic garbage' is the reason why the words are so effective. That's why they picked those words. Whether or not they are 'really' thinking racist thoughts deep down inside... who knows. They are at least choosing to pretend to be a racist because they understand that acting like that causes that person the most pain.
Why are you not allowed to cause someone pain when you insult them? It's a scale with racism being mid way near the end depending on peoples attitudes too it. If someone calls you stupid it too causes you pain, just a smaller amount than if someone called you an ignorant fuckwit
In short, insults are meant to be insulting and there shouldn't be some ambiguous line you feel shouldn't be crossed.
In the words of Stephen fry, " your insulted? So fucking what "
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On May 05 2012 09:28 zEnVy wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2012 09:24 Detwiler wrote:
This community continues to amaze me. Do people even think before they post? The defenders of destiny do you hear yourselves? Man whats this scene doming to when players cant call people niggers and gooks in public god i cant believe this shit im leaving! The fuck how old are you? Where are you from that its acceptable for a brand representative to say these things in public huh? Is calling somebody those names on an online video game public? Is their own personal stream even considered "public"?
Yeah it is. Wake up people once you sign on to a team you are a brand representative every single time you stream or go to an event you are representing your team and the brands attached you dont like it well to bad it comes with the turf.
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Seems like a reasonable outcome to the situation. You want to be a sponsored public figure on a sponsored team, you need to act accordingly. I don't really see the big deal here. Stop using racial slurs and you won't have an issue.
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It's not about defending destiny it's that you guys are such fucking babies
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I haven't been watching Destiny's stream lately since I don't play zerg much, but now that this has happened I'm going to leave the damn thing on every second he's live.
Trying to ruin people's lives in the names of political correctness makes me sick.
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On May 05 2012 09:30 Detwiler wrote:
Yeah it is. Wake up people once you sign on to a team you are a brand representative every single time you stream or go to an event you are representing your team and the brands attached you dont like it well to bad it comes with the turf.
I'd completely agree it's public. But you need to realize Quantic FULLY knew Destiny's personality previous to signing him. They knew Destiny turned down Complexity, they new Destiny constantly used racial slurs, etc.
On May 05 2012 09:31 zEnVy wrote:
I haven't been watching Destiny's stream lately since I don't play zerg much, but now that this has happened I'm going to leave the damn thing on every second he's live.
Trying to ruin people's lives in the names of political correctness makes me sick.
Planned on doing the same thing.
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I feel like it's a complete waste of time to be offended by something someone on the internet said.
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On May 05 2012 09:08 genius_man16 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2012 07:42 Bulldog654 wrote:On May 05 2012 07:40 genius_man16 wrote:
I have yet to understand how this community absolutely LOVES E-Sports and wants it to go mainstream and yet when something like this happens people get upset?
If you want E-sports to go mainstream, then Destiny using racial slurs needs to stop ASAP. We as a community cannot 'go mainstream' if we continue to embrace people like Destiny when he is quite honestly a giant bigot. He can whine all he wants about "free speech" and how he doesn't use the n-word to offend anyone, but the fact is that the n-word is simply one of, if not THE most offensive word in the english language and you CANNOT use it and pretend like people who are offended by it are stupid.
Perhaps you err in assuming that the whole of the "community" even wants it to go mainstream. Perhaps, however it seems to be a vast majority sentiment, so I feel that my point still stands. Show nested quote +On May 05 2012 07:51 MercilessMonkey wrote:On May 05 2012 07:44 Holytornados wrote:On May 05 2012 07:26 StarStrider wrote:On May 05 2012 07:24 dAPhREAk wrote:On May 05 2012 07:22 StarStrider wrote:We should have another TL poll like the one in "DJ Wheat saying Bitches" thread. I'm interested in just how many people there are on each side of this issue. + Show Spoiler +Poll: Is offensive/racial language a teamkick / TL-ban-worthy offense?It doesn't matter, it's not a big deal, people should just get over it and stop watching his strea (64) 43% Yes. Get that out of my esports. It is a blight to the professionalism of the scene. (51) 34% Only if he refuses to apologize and refrain from it in the future. (Warning) (18) 12% Language is what you make it. I should be able to say anything without you getting offended. (14) 9% Only if sponsors are on the line. Otherwise it doesn't matter. (2) 1% 149 total votes Your vote: Is offensive/racial language a teamkick / TL-ban-worthy offense? (Vote): Yes. Get that out of my esports. It is a blight to the professionalism of the scene.
(Vote): Only if sponsors are on the line. Otherwise it doesn't matter.
(Vote): Only if he refuses to apologize and refrain from it in the future. (Warning)
(Vote): It doesn't matter, it's not a big deal, people should just get over it and stop watching his strea
(Vote): Language is what you make it. I should be able to say anything without you getting offended.
what is offensive/racial language? Cunt, Nigger, Kike, Faggot, etc. I don't really see how cunt is offensive, and I've never personally heard the word Kike ever. Some feminists would tell you that cunt is the most offensive word you can use. Kike is a racist slur for asians? Idk, I never really see it used. On May 05 2012 07:40 Dante_A_ wrote:
I believe you should act online the way you would act in real life. As people have noted, it seems unlikely that Destiny (or others) would use such offensive language in real life. Why is it suddenly OK just because its online and "just a game"?
Pickup basketball is also just a game, yet it would be a pretty big offense to use these words to strangers on a basketball court.
Acting in a brazen and offensive manner online just because you can avoid the repercussions that would follow in real life is no excuse to do it. I don't disagree, I don't think it's necessarily "ok" to act like a dick on the internet when you wouldn't in real life. However, let's follow through with your analogy. If I called you a racist slur on the basketball court, which of the following is more likely: A) You tell me to go fuck myself, and don't play basketball with me anymore B) Go complain to my boss and try to get me fired I think it's pretty obvious the difference between the two. Not many people are saying that it's great for Destiny to be rude and offensive, but rather the reaction which resulted was unwarranted considering the other options. People who don't like his stream can just not watch it. I don't even watch his stream. But it's not like he did it at a tournament or live event or anything of the sort. Your two examples don't really fully explain the Destiny situation. If we are going to use the basketball example, "B" would be valid because you would be playing a basketball game as a representative of your company, so it would be justifiable for the person to go to your boss if you called him the n-word during said basketball game.
Wasn't my basketball analogy, I was just drawing his out to its conclusion. Even so, I disagree with you. If I and another employee of my company were playing basketball, I think my point stands. I could call him whatever I wanted outside of work, and there would be no business to involve the company at all. Whether or not Destiny's steam is private enough is a different story, which is why I don't think the basketball game was a good analogy in the first place. But if it's being used, I stand behind what I said. Anyone I worked with couldn't go to my boss and say I called them a mean word outside of work.
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On May 05 2012 09:32 Orracle wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2012 09:31 zEnVy wrote:
I haven't been watching Destiny's stream lately since I don't play zerg much, but now that this has happened I'm going to leave the damn thing on every second he's live.
Trying to ruin people's lives in the names of political correctness makes me sick. Planned on doing the same thing.
Totally agreed. If anything this unnecessary drama has caused me to sub his channel.
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On May 05 2012 09:28 HikariPrime wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2012 09:24 Detwiler wrote:
This community continues to amaze me. Do people even think before they post? The defenders of destiny do you hear yourselves? Man whats this scene doming to when players cant call people niggers and gooks in public god i cant believe this shit im leaving! The fuck how old are you? Where are you from that its acceptable for a brand representative to say these things in public huh? 16, living in United States of America with the constitution to protect me and my rights to free speech and the context of how i use said speech. Unless you know, you have people who deliberately go out of there way to find a hate crime ( that doesnt actually exist (oh noes he used a bad word ) in this situation ) and for a moderation team to get butt hurt cause white guys getting mad at him "offending" asians. ( btw im asian )
Ah 16 explains everything.
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EPT
