Even though some of these words are used differently now in some cases, it doesn't mean that they aren't used for hate anymore.
Here's the thing. They only have meaning if you let them have meaning. So don't let them have meaning, and don't attract it by making a thread about it.
sorry I can't read this post I'm not letting any of these words have meaning
I guess that means they don't and you're just posting gibberish. weird strategy.
Don't know why you have to get childish about it. The topic of discussion is racial slurs; no where did I say anything about words in general.
"they only have meaning if you give them meaning"
you wanted me to only apply that to racial slurs? that seems really convenient don't you think?
words have socially accepted meaning (unless you want to say they don't, at all). you live in a society. deal with it.
ESPECIALLY deal with it when you earn money off of people watching you play starcraft in this society. folks are gonna react, folks are gonna believe things based off the language you choose to use. if you don't want them to say "hey destiny sure SOUNDS like a racist" maybe... don't use racial slurs?
Dude the point is that we should try to move society to where these words don't offend people. We could stop so many problems if this gets initiated. Instead of explaining the obvious, work on shifting society towards those beliefs. I already live this way. If it's that easy for me to completely remove any offensive meaning from a word I hear or see, I can't see how it'd be so difficult for everyone else to. Just do it guys. Enjoy the shit that you watch and stop worrying about little things like this.
Some people simply didn't and don't have it as easy as you do.
Don't you think, instead of telling people to "man up" and to "grow a thicker skin" and to "remove meaning from words," it might just be a lot better to teach kids not to use slurs? Pretty sure the pain/emotional distress some words cause greatly outweighs the inconvenience of having to choose a different word. Some people simply cannot dissociate "the bully on the playground who outed me to the entire school and called me faggot" from the word "faggot." You can't just tell people to "stop being offended" by it; links between words and meanings go deeper than that, and certain associations can't be removed. As a generally unempathetic person, it strikes me as ironic that I'm saying this, but ... dude, have some empathy. :/
The words are not socially unacceptable to anyone who is mature enough to see that they're just words. The fact that you find them socially inacceptable, doesn't mean I should, or should keep me from using them. I don't personally use them, but it has nothing to do with whether or not they're acceptable.
this is just more of the same childish, simplistic argument. no one's trying to oppress you or stop you from using certain words, you just can't deal with them being unacceptable and there being social consequences for using them. your last sentence is just entirely incoherent. the vast majority of people think they're not acceptable, this suggests far more that you are immature, not they.
the issue here is that "they're just words" is meaningless, words convey information, slurs convey the information that the person who uses them aggressively against another wants to demean that person in some way.
On May 02 2012 05:27 Arghmyliver wrote: People actually think Destiny is a bigot?
Are you guys serious?
Here are some bigots -
Adolf Hitler Saddam Hussein Nathan Bedford Forrest
Destiny is not a bigot.
Haha, that's my line. Are you serious?
So basically you have to commit genocide to be considered a bigot?
Definition of BIGOT : a person who is obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices; especially : one who regards or treats the members of a group (as a racial or ethnic group) with hatred and intolerance (Merriam-Webster)
Can you tell me where you get your definition for a bigot from? I would love to see that dictionary.
So can anybody tell me what do those words mean now?
Since you know enlightened gamers raging on a videogame have apparently decided that those words now mean whatever they want while ignoring the history behind them.
Even though some of these words are used differently now in some cases, it doesn't mean that they aren't used for hate anymore.
Here's the thing. They only have meaning if you let them have meaning. So don't let them have meaning, and don't attract it by making a thread about it.
sorry I can't read this post I'm not letting any of these words have meaning
I guess that means they don't and you're just posting gibberish. weird strategy.
Don't know why you have to get childish about it. The topic of discussion is racial slurs; no where did I say anything about words in general.
"they only have meaning if you give them meaning"
you wanted me to only apply that to racial slurs? that seems really convenient don't you think?
words have socially accepted meaning (unless you want to say they don't, at all). you live in a society. deal with it.
ESPECIALLY deal with it when you earn money off of people watching you play starcraft in this society. folks are gonna react, folks are gonna believe things based off the language you choose to use. if you don't want them to say "hey destiny sure SOUNDS like a racist" maybe... don't use racial slurs?
Dude the point is that we should try to move society to where these words don't offend people. We could stop so many problems if this gets initiated. Instead of explaining the obvious, work on shifting society towards those beliefs. I already live this way. If it's that easy for me to completely remove any offensive meaning from a word I hear or see, I can't see how it'd be so difficult for everyone else to. Just do it guys. Enjoy the shit that you watch and stop worrying about little things like this.
Just curious, but why can't we try to move society to a point where we don't use those words? Racial slurs have been historically tainted in hate and prejudice. Instead of asking people to break the connection between words and their historical past, wouldn't it make more sense to ask people to stop using them?
Religions have been historically tainted in hate and prejudice. Instead of asking people to break the connection between religions and their historical past, wouldn't it make more sense to ask people to stop using them?
Genitalia have been historically tainted in hate and prejudice. Instead of asking people to break the connection between their genitalia and its historical past, wouldn't it make more sense to have people stop using them?
Geography has been historically tainted in hate and prejudice. Instead of asking people to break the connection between geography and its historical past, wouldn't it make more sense to ask people to stop using it?
hmmm
I think using different words would be easier than blowing up the word or shooting off everyone's cock don't you think?
I wouldn't mind this kind of verbal abuse if it wasn't from someone who's supposed to be a professional gamer. But Destiny is on a team, so it does bother me a little
Here's the thing. They only have meaning if you let them have meaning. So don't let them have meaning, and don't attract it by making a thread about it.
sorry I can't read this post I'm not letting any of these words have meaning
I guess that means they don't and you're just posting gibberish. weird strategy.
Don't know why you have to get childish about it. The topic of discussion is racial slurs; no where did I say anything about words in general.
"they only have meaning if you give them meaning"
you wanted me to only apply that to racial slurs? that seems really convenient don't you think?
words have socially accepted meaning (unless you want to say they don't, at all). you live in a society. deal with it.
ESPECIALLY deal with it when you earn money off of people watching you play starcraft in this society. folks are gonna react, folks are gonna believe things based off the language you choose to use. if you don't want them to say "hey destiny sure SOUNDS like a racist" maybe... don't use racial slurs?
Dude the point is that we should try to move society to where these words don't offend people. We could stop so many problems if this gets initiated. Instead of explaining the obvious, work on shifting society towards those beliefs. I already live this way. If it's that easy for me to completely remove any offensive meaning from a word I hear or see, I can't see how it'd be so difficult for everyone else to. Just do it guys. Enjoy the shit that you watch and stop worrying about little things like this.
Just curious, but why can't we try to move society to a point where we don't use those words? Racial slurs have been historically tainted in hate and prejudice. Instead of asking people to break the connection between words and their historical past, wouldn't it make more sense to ask people to stop using them?
The first step is breaking that connection. It would naturally evolve into where people will stop using the words because they are no longer effective in expressing what they want.
so rather than have people stop using this language, you want people who are offended by it to stop being offended
rather than having people simply use different language when they get angry at a video game, you'd ask black people to please forget the entire history of the word nigger and disassociate it from any negative meaning it has for them.
unreal.
It's only unreal if people don't act on it.
I think you're just being really naive. I appreciate the back and forth we had, usually the samae person won't keep replying. but I think you just don't want to see the simplicity of the situation and the facts of the weight these words carry.
you are also basically blaming the offended for being offended when changing word use is so unbelievably easy. much easier than somehow ignoring the entire history of language/slurs.
I mean, it's only for their own good. Yeah it might be harder for those who are so used to the word in such a context. But ultimately, they would wish the word to stop having that meaning. Therefore, I don't entirely see it as an unrealistic endeavor for them to try to abolish the negative history of these words.
Blame is a harsh word to use. They didn't choose to be offended obviously. Their situation made it so that the word would be associated with such a negative, racist context. This doesn't mean it can't be undone, is all I'm saying.
On May 02 2012 08:08 windsupernova wrote: So can anybody tell me what do those words mean now?
Since you know enlightened gamers raging on a videogame have apparently decided that those words now mean whatever they want while ignoring the history behind them.
Keep up the brovolution guys
Well, meaning is a deep topic, but I can tell you that 'gook' and 'nigger' and 'faggot' are steeped in hundreds of years of human suffering. To many people, that is what those words represent.
On May 02 2012 08:08 MasterKang wrote: I wouldn't mind this kind of verbal abuse if it wasn't from someone who's supposed to be a professional gamer. But Destiny is on a team, so it does bother me a little
What are you going to do about it? Continue to let it bother you? Act on the fact that you're bothered? Some professions thrive on saying these words (standup comedians, for example). The fact that Destiny is a "professional" doesn't automatically bind him to certain patterns of behaviour. Who are you to say how a professional gamer should behave? Did you buy a mousepad or something?
On May 01 2012 22:19 GreyKnight wrote: No, Quantic does not care. they signed him up frankly for this purpose
yea lol i mean to get rid of him over this when this is like maybe a 5/10 for destiny's BM rage spree and quantic still signed him knowing all of this, I doubt anythign will come from it
Even though some of these words are used differently now in some cases, it doesn't mean that they aren't used for hate anymore.
Here's the thing. They only have meaning if you let them have meaning. So don't let them have meaning, and don't attract it by making a thread about it.
sorry I can't read this post I'm not letting any of these words have meaning
I guess that means they don't and you're just posting gibberish. weird strategy.
Don't know why you have to get childish about it. The topic of discussion is racial slurs; no where did I say anything about words in general.
"they only have meaning if you give them meaning"
you wanted me to only apply that to racial slurs? that seems really convenient don't you think?
words have socially accepted meaning (unless you want to say they don't, at all). you live in a society. deal with it.
ESPECIALLY deal with it when you earn money off of people watching you play starcraft in this society. folks are gonna react, folks are gonna believe things based off the language you choose to use. if you don't want them to say "hey destiny sure SOUNDS like a racist" maybe... don't use racial slurs?
Dude the point is that we should try to move society to where these words don't offend people. We could stop so many problems if this gets initiated. Instead of explaining the obvious, work on shifting society towards those beliefs. I already live this way. If it's that easy for me to completely remove any offensive meaning from a word I hear or see, I can't see how it'd be so difficult for everyone else to. Just do it guys. Enjoy the shit that you watch and stop worrying about little things like this.
Some people simply didn't and don't have it as easy as you do.
Don't you think, instead of telling people to "man up" and to "grow a thicker skin" and to "remove meaning from words," it might just be a lot better to teach kids not to use slurs? Pretty sure the pain/emotional distress some words cause greatly outweighs the inconvenience of having to choose a different word. Some people simply cannot dissociate "the bully on the playground who outed me to the entire school and called me faggot" from the word "faggot." You can't just tell people to "stop being offended" by it; links between words and meanings go deeper than that, and certain associations can't be removed. As a generally unempathetic person, it strikes me as ironic that I'm saying this, but ... dude, have some empathy. :/
Yeah I support not using the words along with what I said. It'll only make the process faster. I
Even though some of these words are used differently now in some cases, it doesn't mean that they aren't used for hate anymore.
Here's the thing. They only have meaning if you let them have meaning. So don't let them have meaning, and don't attract it by making a thread about it.
sorry I can't read this post I'm not letting any of these words have meaning
I guess that means they don't and you're just posting gibberish. weird strategy.
Don't know why you have to get childish about it. The topic of discussion is racial slurs; no where did I say anything about words in general.
"they only have meaning if you give them meaning"
you wanted me to only apply that to racial slurs? that seems really convenient don't you think?
words have socially accepted meaning (unless you want to say they don't, at all). you live in a society. deal with it.
ESPECIALLY deal with it when you earn money off of people watching you play starcraft in this society. folks are gonna react, folks are gonna believe things based off the language you choose to use. if you don't want them to say "hey destiny sure SOUNDS like a racist" maybe... don't use racial slurs?
Dude the point is that we should try to move society to where these words don't offend people. We could stop so many problems if this gets initiated. Instead of explaining the obvious, work on shifting society towards those beliefs. I already live this way. If it's that easy for me to completely remove any offensive meaning from a word I hear or see, I can't see how it'd be so difficult for everyone else to. Just do it guys. Enjoy the shit that you watch and stop worrying about little things like this.
Some people simply didn't and don't have it as easy as you do.
Don't you think, instead of telling people to "man up" and to "grow a thicker skin" and to "remove meaning from words," it might just be a lot better to teach kids not to use slurs? Pretty sure the pain/emotional distress some words cause greatly outweighs the inconvenience of having to choose a different word. Some people simply cannot dissociate "the bully on the playground who outed me to the entire school and called me faggot" from the word "faggot." You can't just tell people to "stop being offended" by it; links between words and meanings go deeper than that, and certain associations can't be removed. As a generally unempathetic person, it strikes me as ironic that I'm saying this, but ... dude, have some empathy. :/
Why would that help? If the words are charged with that meaning because you forbid their use, you simply perpetuate the issue. What if you instead teach that words are just words and their meaning is entirely situational? I can't see how making the word taboo could possible help it be less of a problem.
What's truly funny about this thread, is that Destiny has been bleeding viewers for weeks, and he has some difficulties hitting 2K viewers when he used to have 5/6K on his channel. But now, thanks to the drama, the viewership of Destiny's channel is probably going to raise a lot.
On May 02 2012 08:11 Gorlin wrote: What is the point of this thread exactly?
Everyone shows off how much they learned in grade school debate class, and agrees/disagrees with one another while a couple people write letters to Quantic/Razer or buy/don't buy things, and a couple other people watch/don't watch Destiny's stream.
The intended result, though? A reddit-style bandwagon/witchhunt, of course.
On May 02 2012 08:13 legaton wrote: What's truly funny about this thread, is that Destiny has been bleeding viewers for weeks, and he has some difficulties hitting 2K viewers when he used to have 5/6K on his channel. But now, thanks to the drama, the viewership of Destiny's channel is probably going to raise a lot.
To me, that's good. It means there are people out there (and quite a few of them) who won't be swayed into not watching/saying/doing something because of what some guy on the internet said. Free thought is one of the major steps toward ending things like racism.
On May 02 2012 00:19 lorkac wrote: Is he intentionally racist? Probably not.
Is he institutionally racist? Yes.
The difference? He says racist things because he lives in a culture that is okay with saying those things aloud--it isn't with malicious intent that he says those things.
Is it still a problem? Yes.
Is the problem with Destiny? No--the problem is with the community he is in.
What community is that? American gamers.
How do you fix American gamers? Fix america.
That sounds stupid. Because it is.
really well said
Quoting this with hope it's seen again.
"Don't blame the person, blame the community he's in."
I don't know. Doesn't this sound like those kids going, "Don't blame me for being [say] an aggressive high school dropout. Blame my parents. Blame my community. Blame my religion. Blame America. Blame the Internet. BLAME EVERYONE BUT ME [coz it ain't my fault]."
Institutional racism is a fact within America [and American gamers, I guess, like you said, since, like sports, people say a lot of crap to get into other players's skins], but saying that Destiny isn't the problem, and implying that he shouldn't be blamed is tough for me to swallow.
I know you "the problem isn't him" and "he shouldn't be blamed" are qualitatively different, because you're referring to what must be fixed in particular. I'm just saying that in the short term, or for individual cases, it's not unreasonable to expect people to fix themselves sometimes.
Even though some of these words are used differently now in some cases, it doesn't mean that they aren't used for hate anymore.
Here's the thing. They only have meaning if you let them have meaning. So don't let them have meaning, and don't attract it by making a thread about it.
sorry I can't read this post I'm not letting any of these words have meaning
I guess that means they don't and you're just posting gibberish. weird strategy.
Don't know why you have to get childish about it. The topic of discussion is racial slurs; no where did I say anything about words in general.
"they only have meaning if you give them meaning"
you wanted me to only apply that to racial slurs? that seems really convenient don't you think?
words have socially accepted meaning (unless you want to say they don't, at all). you live in a society. deal with it.
ESPECIALLY deal with it when you earn money off of people watching you play starcraft in this society. folks are gonna react, folks are gonna believe things based off the language you choose to use. if you don't want them to say "hey destiny sure SOUNDS like a racist" maybe... don't use racial slurs?
Dude the point is that we should try to move society to where these words don't offend people. We could stop so many problems if this gets initiated. Instead of explaining the obvious, work on shifting society towards those beliefs. I already live this way. If it's that easy for me to completely remove any offensive meaning from a word I hear or see, I can't see how it'd be so difficult for everyone else to. Just do it guys. Enjoy the shit that you watch and stop worrying about little things like this.
Just curious, but why can't we try to move society to a point where we don't use those words? Racial slurs have been historically tainted in hate and prejudice. Instead of asking people to break the connection between words and their historical past, wouldn't it make more sense to ask people to stop using them?
Religions have been historically tainted in hate and prejudice. Instead of asking people to break the connection between religions and their historical past, wouldn't it make more sense to ask people to stop using them?
Genitalia have been historically tainted in hate and prejudice. Instead of asking people to break the connection between their genitalia and its historical past, wouldn't it make more sense to have people stop using them?
Geography has been historically tainted in hate and prejudice. Instead of asking people to break the connection between geography and its historical past, wouldn't it make more sense to ask people to stop using it?
hmmm
I think using different words would be easier than blowing up the word or shooting off everyone's cock don't you think?
Were you planning on sewing shut everyone's mouth who uses foul language?
I would like to express my disappointment in Razer's decision to sponsor the Starcraft 2 player Destiny, and his team Quantic, in light of racist comments regularly made on his stream.
Like many players, I see his comments as representative of the type of culture his sponsors wish to foster. I consider continued sponsorship of Destiny, either directly or through his team Quantic, as tacit approval by Razer of the use of racial slurs meant to divide and inflame.
As such, I cannot morally justify continued use and purchase of Razer products.
So seeing one person be racist in your point of view made you not buy razer products because his WHOLE team is sponsered by razer? Not only when emailing razer you can hurt destiny, but actually hurt the whole team if they lose their sponsership, while naniwa and sase, etc. are getting involved in this because of the emails to the sponsers
Ultimately, the decision has to be made whether to tolerate this sort of language and behaviour. Steve's letter to Razer is an appropriate course of action. Razer would not immediately pull sponsorship from the entire team. Rather, it would put Quantic in the position of evaluating whether the actions of one of its team members is something worth standing behind and would force them to relieve Destiny of his sponsorship (which would be acceptable from a business perspective).
Language such as what Destiny uses is ONLY negative. Further, Destiny's stream, although being his own private stream, is still representative of his team and therefore representative of all of the team's sponsors. You can not argue the contrary. Destiny's response to this is just further proof of his inability and/or unwillingness to admit what he does has no place in public. Whether or not he is racist or a bigot is absolutely irrelevant in the course of this discussion since the type of incendiary language is used in a very high frequency and is not exactly semantically ambiguous.
I think this is a rather simple issue. In the real world, this is unacceptable behavior. You can't do this at a "normal" job. Society has decided that this is in fact a problem. For better or worse, racial slurs do exist and in some situations they can have very real meanings. We need to iron out these issues within our community now, and get rid of them, before we can move on to the next stage. The worse possible thing for Esports would be if it got on ESPN or something and XYZ player used ABC racial slur and the entire world condemned Esports as that activity that only white nerdy racists etc etc people do.
Destiny, and anyone else, wishing to use these terms may continue to do so if they wish, but at the cost of being able to be seen in the public eye. We as a community need to shun people who are negative, and this is a negative thing Destiny is doing. As I mentioned above, Gaming in general is considered something that white nerdy kids do, and its hard enough to shake that label off. We don't need more negative labels associated with us.
EPT
