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Think twice before hitting post; this thread will be moderated for idiocy and useless posts. Consider this a warning. |
A few people have stated this but I feel as if it is being overshadowed by many of the more lesser quality posts.
Warden should not of went to the public forums for a case like this but instead either contact Destiny or Quantic about this behavior and have it settled privately.
Too often lately has TL become a lynching mob at anything that slightly offends any group of people.
The offended tend to win because well, their bickering and yes even whining drowns out any legitimate rationale as to why they shouldn't be so quick to pick up the pitchforks, because intuitively, what offended them is wrong and that's a strong case backing them, but what the offended tend to stray from is to what degree is it wrong and how offensive it truly is.
I'm asian and am i offended? No, not really, because it's just a word, and it wasn't even aimed towards me.
Then do I believe what Destiny did is ok? No, absolutely not, but that's who he is and that's how he chooses to portray himself then so be it. That's one less person to respect and care about/listen to.
What this thread does is merely create a storm that will cause quantic to eventually have to act in favor of the offended to calm them down, and potentially hurt Destiny's career.
I'd hate to say it but people need to toughen up a bit, and behave more civilized.
Yes, we should address Destiny's behavior and eventually have him change the way he portrays himself because he is a "community figure", but from what I've been reading such as making Quantic lose their sponsor, destroying his career, heck even people are comparing him to a bigot such as Adolf Hitlet... come on guys, there's a line, you guys are crossing it.
Everyone has raged once or so and said things they don't mean. Destiny just abuses that, which is indeed terrible but hey, in the end either you support him or u don't. Don't go overboard with your reactions is all I'm really saying.
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holy crap this thread is a mess.
i don't understand those people who claim racial slurs aren't offensive anymore because they're no longer relevant in today's society. words contain meaning to any person to the extent that person is willing to give meaning to those words. hence, some white people may be offended by "cracker" while others may not. you can't simply lay down your own opinion as law and claim racial slurs are no longer relevant in today's society.
on another note, it's sad that destiny has to continuing swearing and uttering racial slurs in order to attract attention. it's unfortunate that that is the only thing destiny has to offer (as opposed to actual gaming skill) and it's also unfortunate that there is actually a sizable consumer-base willing to entertain such immature displays by Destiny.
if you are a true fan of Destiny, you should probably be hoping for Destiny to improve in skill so that one day, the only way he is able to distinguish himself from other "pro" gamers won't be having to resort to petty swearing and racial slurs.
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On May 02 2012 08:12 Arghmyliver wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2012 08:07 babylon wrote:On May 02 2012 07:51 Vysage wrote:On May 02 2012 07:47 Vari wrote:On May 02 2012 07:42 Vysage wrote:On May 02 2012 07:40 Vari wrote:On May 02 2012 07:39 Vysage wrote:On May 02 2012 07:34 Fueled wrote:It's 2012, racial slurs don't mean anything. These words still having meaning. Even though some of these words are used differently now in some cases, it doesn't mean that they aren't used for hate anymore. Here's the thing. They only have meaning if you let them have meaning. So don't let them have meaning, and don't attract it by making a thread about it. sorry I can't read this post I'm not letting any of these words have meaning I guess that means they don't and you're just posting gibberish. weird strategy. Don't know why you have to get childish about it. The topic of discussion is racial slurs; no where did I say anything about words in general. "they only have meaning if you give them meaning" you wanted me to only apply that to racial slurs? that seems really convenient don't you think? words have socially accepted meaning (unless you want to say they don't, at all). you live in a society. deal with it. ESPECIALLY deal with it when you earn money off of people watching you play starcraft in this society. folks are gonna react, folks are gonna believe things based off the language you choose to use. if you don't want them to say "hey destiny sure SOUNDS like a racist" maybe... don't use racial slurs? Dude the point is that we should try to move society to where these words don't offend people. We could stop so many problems if this gets initiated. Instead of explaining the obvious, work on shifting society towards those beliefs. I already live this way. If it's that easy for me to completely remove any offensive meaning from a word I hear or see, I can't see how it'd be so difficult for everyone else to. Just do it guys. Enjoy the shit that you watch and stop worrying about little things like this. Some people simply didn't and don't have it as easy as you do. Don't you think, instead of telling people to "man up" and to "grow a thicker skin" and to "remove meaning from words," it might just be a lot better to teach kids not to use slurs? Pretty sure the pain/emotional distress some words cause greatly outweighs the inconvenience of having to choose a different word. Some people simply cannot dissociate "the bully on the playground who outed me to the entire school and called me faggot" from the word "faggot." You can't just tell people to "stop being offended" by it; links between words and meanings go deeper than that, and certain associations can't be removed. As a generally unempathetic person, it strikes me as ironic that I'm saying this, but ... dude, have some empathy. :/ Why would that help? If the words are charged with that meaning because you forbid their use, you simply perpetuate the issue. What if you instead teach that words are just words and their meaning is entirely situational? I can't see how making the word taboo could possible help it be less of a problem.
The word "gook" isn't in the process of being made taboo and isn't really very open to interpretation in the context it was used in. Guy with Asian sounding name cheeses you, you call him a gook. I don't see the other meanings I'm supposed to be able to draw from this... I mean, he did call that guy a "gook", right?
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Sometimes the use of certain words perpetuates ideas 
I think most people know this deep inside.
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To be perfectly honest, it continually amazes me that Destiny is on a pro team. In virtually other occupation, using that kind of language at work (he /is/ a pro gamer, so playing SC is being at work for him) would be a one way ticket to unemployment. Having Destiny reflects quite badly on Quantic as an organization, IMO.
What bothers me about Destiny isn't really this incident, its his insistence that him using that kind of language, in his capacity as a pro gamer, is okay. It puts the community in a very bad light and we shouldn't tolerate it.
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On May 02 2012 07:54 yeastiality wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2012 07:51 GreenFaction wrote:On May 02 2012 07:44 yeastiality wrote:On May 02 2012 07:41 GreenFaction wrote:On May 02 2012 07:22 yeastiality wrote:On May 02 2012 07:20 GreenFaction wrote:
I disagree with the argument, prevalent in this thread, that it is Destiny's right to use racist language. No one has the right to use racist language. We need to realize a distinction between political rights moral rights. I think it is pretty uncontroversial that destiny has a political right to use racist language, up to a point (after a certain point, this right can be forfeit because of laws against assault and slander, etc.). I'm not interested in arguing about his political rights.
What I think is clear is that he has no moral right, no one has a moral right, to use racist language. And this is even independent of whether it is being directed at a particular individual or not. The language is morally destructive regardless; its use is even destructive to destiny himself. It's not right, we all know it's not right. So once we disambiguate the political/moral issues, I think it's pretty obvious that the issue here has nothing at all to do with free speech. No one has a moral right to express themselves in racist language. Are you prepared to debate Destiny on this if he asked you? Morality and politics are both very deep philosophical topics that go beyond what you think is the absolute immutable truth. I'm not sure what you mean. Can I not make philosophical claims? If not me, who can? Let me be clear: I am not arguing the proposition "no one has a right to express themselves in racist language" is true in virtue of my saying it, I am arguing it is true simpliciter. Obviously the topics themselves "go beyond" what I think, since the topics include thousands of opinions, scholarly publications, philosophers, possible opinions, and whatever else it takes to be a "topic". If you think my claim is wrong, then I would be interested to hear your counterargument, and maybe you can convince me destiny has a moral right to use racist language. The reason I posted my original argument is because I suspect that much of the attempts to justify destiny's behavior depend on the equivocation I disambiguated between political and moral rights. I would be willing to bet destiny's own rationalizations of his behavior involve a similar confusion. You're posting in a thread about what Destiny does, how he defends his actions and so on. You're among hundreds of people who all have differing opinions, and dictating "what we can all agree on", as well as implicitly taking certain definitions for things like "moral right." At the end of the day, Destiny himself has already addressed many of the arguments against him (including your original one), but the goal seems to be to debate everyone but Destiny in this thread (because it's a witch-hunt)...and to do it using the same level of argument found in presidential debates on TV that have been known to cause brain cancer. I'm not obligated to provide a counterargument to yours, but I can still say that you're not helping my mental image of gamers as pseudo-intellectual blowhards. Again I would appreciate some kind of counterargument here. What is your definition of "moral right"? Do we really need to settle this issue to appreciate that what he said and did was wrong? Maybe your right that instead of saying "what we can all agree on" I should of said, "what is true". If that helps you to understand what I was saying, then just replace the former comment by the latter. So...counterargument? Why does destiny have a moral right (however you define it) to use racist language? I didn't say he has a moral right to use racist language, and I won't. I'm not sure if he does, or what a moral right is, or what 'racist language' is either. Because I'm not sure "what is true" like you seem to be. I understand perfectly what you're saying, but it doesn't make sense and it's intellectually dishonest. Show nested quote +On May 02 2012 07:54 freetgy wrote:On May 02 2012 07:49 yeastiality wrote:
though, the people posting in this thread are not the customer paying Destiny OR his boss...but they sure think they are. i bought quite alot of razer products... Do you pay your taxes? You killed thousands of brown people for heroin and crude oil last year too. Or did you?
I really don't mean this to be a personal attack, but I see a real problem with your reasoning here. If you don't know what's true, then how can you say any of the things you say? How can you know you don't know? How can you understand perfectly what I'm saying? How can you know it doesn't make sense or that what I'm saying is intellectually dishonest? (and on a separate note, why is what I'm saying intellectually dishonest? Is it because I think there are such things as moral rights? That is a pretty extreme claim.)
Clearly, you are sure that lots of things are true. You don't know what a moral right is, and you don't know what racist language is. Frankly, I find this incredible. You must be talking loosely. You must mean, you aren't prepared to give a reductive, strict, perfect, definition of these terms. Good! We are in the same boat. So now let's continue the conversation where it was before you took issue with my using these terms. Just because we can't give perfect definitions does not mean we don't know what we are talking about. It may be a travesty, but that's the world we live in. It certainly never stopped philosophers from doing philosophy, or ordinary people from making good sense.
Alternatively, maybe you really don't have any clue what a moral right is, or what racist language is. In that case, I don't know how to help. But I would find it strange if you continued to have articulated opinions about these issues.
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Do you guys remember in Harry Potter when everyone was like "He-Who-Must-Not-Be-Named" and "You-Know-Who"
and then there was Dumbledore who was like -
"No, it's more impressive if you act like you've grown a pair.
"Voldemort.
"VoldemortVoldemortVoldemort."
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On May 02 2012 08:08 windsupernova wrote:
So can anybody tell me what do those words mean now?
Since you know enlightened gamers raging on a videogame have apparently decided that those words now mean whatever they want while ignoring the history behind them.
Keep up the brovolution guys
Hey man these words don't even mean anything *continues to use them to insult people*
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On May 02 2012 08:16 draumr wrote:
I think this is a rather simple issue. In the real world, this is unacceptable behavior. You can't do this at a "normal" job. Society has decided that this is in fact a problem. For better or worse, racial slurs do exist and in some situations they can have very real meanings. We need to iron out these issues within our community now, and get rid of them, before we can move on to the next stage. The worse possible thing for Esports would be if it got on ESPN or something and XYZ player used ABC racial slur and the entire world condemned Esports as that activity that only white nerdy racists etc etc people do.
Destiny, and anyone else, wishing to use these terms may continue to do so if they wish, but at the cost of being able to be seen in the public eye. We as a community need to shun people who are negative, and this is a negative thing Destiny is doing. As I mentioned above, Gaming in general is considered something that white nerdy kids do, and its hard enough to shake that label off. We don't need more negative labels associated with us.
Within the larger scale, as society/humanity, groupthink and diminishing the importance of discussion/dissent is even worse than someone saying a bad word on a TV station that won't exist in 100 years. In fact, that same attitude is the source of many historically significant racist movements which took everything they believed for granted.
On May 02 2012 08:17 Arghmyliver wrote:
Do you guys remember in Harry Potter when everyone was like "He-Who-Must-Not-Be-Named" and "You-Know-Who"
and then there was Dumbledore who was like -
"No, it's more impressive if you act like you've grown a pair.
"Voldemort.
"VoldemortVoldemortVoldemort."
Yeah, I remember that. I also remember when everyone except the Death Eaters took offence to the term 'mudblood.' Clearly reasoning about a children's story that's an allegory for the holocaust is too complex for this forum. Even if it wasn't, you're projecting the oversimplified and frankly hollow ideas in the story to a reality that does not fit them.
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On May 02 2012 08:13 legaton wrote:
What's truly funny about this thread, is that Destiny has been bleeding viewers for weeks, and he has some difficulties hitting 2K viewers when he used to have 5/6K on his channel. But now, thanks to the drama, the viewership of Destiny's channel is probably going to raise a lot.
What are you talking about? The only time Destiny has 2k viewers is because he is playing mfin lol and not starcraft. He was at 4.5k when he was playing sc2 yesterday.
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Wow cant say i ever thought somebody would actually post on here about destiny using sluts. Its pretty much all destiny does. No offense to destiny
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I fail to see why this is important now. He has not changed suddenly to doing this. This is Steven's Internet Persona that has been going on for over 2 years. Are you so bored that you have to try and bring it up and make a big deal of it right now?
If you don't like what he says, do not watch his stream. Its very simple. No need to make posts about it on TL.
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Dude, you should be happy you beat some guy that sits around all day playing. Furthermore, he must be under a lot of stress. He makes money streaming but before that didn’t he clean carpets or some lame shit? Imagine how stressed you'd feel if your job was to stream and obviously it would be in your favour for your stream to win games and if you don’t win games or entertain people then you lose your job.
I don’t know where I would get the motivation to go back to cleaning carpets after having played video games constantly as a job. Be happy with the fact his job won't last forever and he will never be anywhere near the top tier of pro's and that he's angry some dude beat him when he's devoted a fuck load of his time into something that will never be anything except a semi decent player that is paid (I don’t want to use the word professional because he neither plays or acts like one) to stream his games or now from what I’ve seen his LoL games.
Reading through this it sounds like a massive shot at the dude but that’s just how I’d feel, I know the stress you can put on yourself when you try your best to be something you might just not be cut out for.
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destiny always been offensive when losing, its disgusting playing this kid
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On May 02 2012 08:20 Calebcalebcaleb wrote:
I fail to see why this is important now. He has not changed suddenly to doing this. This is Steven's Internet Persona that has been going on for over 2 years. Are you so bored that you have to try and bring it up and make a big deal of it right now?
If you don't like what he says, do not watch his stream. Its very simple. No need to make posts about it on TL.
I think it's possible that some people have not followed Destiny for 2 years, and this is new to them. Do you agree?
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On May 02 2012 08:17 dUTtrOACh wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2012 08:12 Arghmyliver wrote:On May 02 2012 08:07 babylon wrote:On May 02 2012 07:51 Vysage wrote:On May 02 2012 07:47 Vari wrote:On May 02 2012 07:42 Vysage wrote:On May 02 2012 07:40 Vari wrote:On May 02 2012 07:39 Vysage wrote:On May 02 2012 07:34 Fueled wrote:It's 2012, racial slurs don't mean anything. These words still having meaning. Even though some of these words are used differently now in some cases, it doesn't mean that they aren't used for hate anymore. Here's the thing. They only have meaning if you let them have meaning. So don't let them have meaning, and don't attract it by making a thread about it. sorry I can't read this post I'm not letting any of these words have meaning I guess that means they don't and you're just posting gibberish. weird strategy. Don't know why you have to get childish about it. The topic of discussion is racial slurs; no where did I say anything about words in general. "they only have meaning if you give them meaning" you wanted me to only apply that to racial slurs? that seems really convenient don't you think? words have socially accepted meaning (unless you want to say they don't, at all). you live in a society. deal with it. ESPECIALLY deal with it when you earn money off of people watching you play starcraft in this society. folks are gonna react, folks are gonna believe things based off the language you choose to use. if you don't want them to say "hey destiny sure SOUNDS like a racist" maybe... don't use racial slurs? Dude the point is that we should try to move society to where these words don't offend people. We could stop so many problems if this gets initiated. Instead of explaining the obvious, work on shifting society towards those beliefs. I already live this way. If it's that easy for me to completely remove any offensive meaning from a word I hear or see, I can't see how it'd be so difficult for everyone else to. Just do it guys. Enjoy the shit that you watch and stop worrying about little things like this. Some people simply didn't and don't have it as easy as you do. Don't you think, instead of telling people to "man up" and to "grow a thicker skin" and to "remove meaning from words," it might just be a lot better to teach kids not to use slurs? Pretty sure the pain/emotional distress some words cause greatly outweighs the inconvenience of having to choose a different word. Some people simply cannot dissociate "the bully on the playground who outed me to the entire school and called me faggot" from the word "faggot." You can't just tell people to "stop being offended" by it; links between words and meanings go deeper than that, and certain associations can't be removed. As a generally unempathetic person, it strikes me as ironic that I'm saying this, but ... dude, have some empathy. :/ Why would that help? If the words are charged with that meaning because you forbid their use, you simply perpetuate the issue. What if you instead teach that words are just words and their meaning is entirely situational? I can't see how making the word taboo could possible help it be less of a problem. The word "gook" isn't in the process of being made taboo and isn't really very open to interpretation in the context it was used in. Guy with Asian sounding name cheeses you, you call him a gook. I don't see the other meanings I'm supposed to be able to draw from this... I mean, he did call that guy a "gook", right?
Words are exactly that. Just words.
Just like tools aren't good or bad, words aren't.
---> It doesn't really matter if he calls someone "faggot", "asshole", "nigger" or whatever. It's an insult directed at that person at that time unless someone can prove a racist intent. He's an insulting person and that's what he should be judged for.
Not more, not less.
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The only real problem with Destiny using the slur "gook" is that he's using it to talk down to and insult someone that he knows is Asian. If Destiny said this to someone without knowing their ethnicity for a fact (i.e. Orb) then it'd be okay because he wouldn't be trying to offend his opponent directly. The fact is Destiny is just a child that won't learn right from wrong because his immaturity makes him money.
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lol gook? skilless? um destiny last time i checked you havent done shit in sc2 i guess all those "gooks" that youve lost to countless amount of times are skilless too. heck why play on the gook server when theyre all bunch of skilless people i wonder? Hypocrisy or just plain idiocy? Im ashamed that you are presenting the foreign community in this way. you dirt bag piece of shit. even if you are the best player in the history of all games you shouldnt talk shit and act like a fucking elitist, even though you're not even worth the piece of gum on the ground cause you suck at this game. quit life.
User was temp banned for this post.
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EPT
