On April 07 2012 01:13 Wildmoon wrote: Let's say Stephano is the best foriegner. I can pick one code A player from korea and that guy willl have atleast 50% chance to beat him. That's how good top foriegners are.
what you say only seems to suggest how good stephano is....
Yes, if by good you mean code A level. What I am saying is top foriegners = Code A.
I don't think that foreigners has caught up with the koreans and I doubt we ever will. In my opinion the top foreigners have become more consistent in big non-korean tournaments (Stephano, Naniwa and HuK) but skillwise they're still only low Code S or high Code A. When relatively 'no name' Koreans attend foreign tournaments they're still huge favourites in front of accomplished players such as Sheth, Thorzain, IdrA and so on.
To me this is how it goes, foreigners are really good at LAN events(aka 3-4 day sprint events like MLG/IPL etc) but when it comes to large tournament like the GSL which excels in the preparation aspect they don't do all that well.
On April 07 2012 01:06 Jisall wrote: There never was a skill gap. Blaming someone for being korean and winning is just an escape goat to protect one's ego. Somewhere along the line people started believing Koreans were better, and they defeated themselves before they even split their workers.
lolwut? They win everything because we think there is a skillgap? Please come back to reality and check the tournament results for the past year... Koreans win everything for a reason... They practice harder and smarter and therefore are better. The skill gap is only going to get worse if the BW pro's really do switch over.... I hope some foreigners are practising their asses off at least... would be nice to have one or two who can compete.
Explain IPL3. I like using Stephano as an example because of his attitude. Focus on your own gameplay to get better, don't focus on your opponents "superior skill". BW and SC2 may be based in the same universe, but they are hardly the same game. Edit: Koreans are people, not starcraft gods.
On April 07 2012 01:06 Jisall wrote: There never was a skill gap. Blaming someone for being korean and winning is just an escape goat to protect one's ego. Somewhere along the line people started believing Koreans were better, and they defeated themselves before they even split their workers.
lolwut? They win everything because we think there is a skillgap? Please come back to reality and check the tournament results for the past year... Koreans win everything for a reason... They practice harder and smarter and therefore are better. The skill gap is only going to get worse if the BW pro's really do switch over.... I hope some foreigners are practising their asses off at least... would be nice to have one or two who can compete.
Explain IPL3. I like using Stephano as an example because of his attitude. Focus on your own gameplay to get better, don't focus on your opponents "superior skill". BW and SC2 may be based in the same universe, but they are hardly the same game. Edit: Koreans are people, not starcraft gods.
I don't understand what you are saying. You are saying that Koreans are better because we think they are better? -_-"
On April 07 2012 01:06 Jisall wrote: There never was a skill gap. Blaming someone for being korean and winning is just an escape goat to protect one's ego. Somewhere along the line people started believing Koreans were better, and they defeated themselves before they even split their workers.
lolwut? They win everything because we think there is a skillgap? Please come back to reality and check the tournament results for the past year... Koreans win everything for a reason... They practice harder and smarter and therefore are better. The skill gap is only going to get worse if the BW pro's really do switch over.... I hope some foreigners are practising their asses off at least... would be nice to have one or two who can compete.
Explain IPL3. I like using Stephano as an example because of his attitude. Focus on your own gameplay to get better, don't focus on your opponents "superior skill". BW and SC2 may be based in the same universe, but they are hardly the same game. Edit: Koreans are people, not starcraft gods.
I never said they were starcraft gods... but they are better, Stephano winning one tournament does not mean there is no skill gap. Koreans have won almost every single tournament since they started coming out here, foreigners are lucky to last more then 1 season in GSL lately. How can you even try to deny that their is a skill gap?
I'm not saying they are better just because they are Korean... I'm saying they are better because they practice more and practice smarter. Until foreigners do the same, the Koreans will keep getting better.
On April 07 2012 01:06 Jisall wrote: There never was a skill gap. Blaming someone for being korean and winning is just an escape goat to protect one's ego. Somewhere along the line people started believing Koreans were better, and they defeated themselves before they even split their workers.
lolwut? They win everything because we think there is a skillgap? Please come back to reality and check the tournament results for the past year... Koreans win everything for a reason... They practice harder and smarter and therefore are better. The skill gap is only going to get worse if the BW pro's really do switch over.... I hope some foreigners are practising their asses off at least... would be nice to have one or two who can compete.
Explain IPL3. I like using Stephano as an example because of his attitude. Focus on your own gameplay to get better, don't focus on your opponents "superior skill". BW and SC2 may be based in the same universe, but they are hardly the same game. Edit: Koreans are people, not starcraft gods.
I don't understand what you are saying. You are saying that Koreans are better because we think they are better? -_-"
On April 07 2012 01:06 Jisall wrote: There never was a skill gap. Blaming someone for being korean and winning is just an escape goat to protect one's ego. Somewhere along the line people started believing Koreans were better, and they defeated themselves before they even split their workers.
lolwut? They win everything because we think there is a skillgap? Please come back to reality and check the tournament results for the past year... Koreans win everything for a reason... They practice harder and smarter and therefore are better. The skill gap is only going to get worse if the BW pro's really do switch over.... I hope some foreigners are practising their asses off at least... would be nice to have one or two who can compete.
Explain IPL3. I like using Stephano as an example because of his attitude. Focus on your own gameplay to get better, don't focus on your opponents "superior skill". BW and SC2 may be based in the same universe, but they are hardly the same game. Edit: Koreans are people, not starcraft gods.
I don't understand what you are saying. You are saying that Koreans are better because we think they are better? -_-"
Exactly.
So stephano doesn't think koreans are better than him then why he is still not better than koreans?
it's getting even bigger... when has someone not named: ret, idra, huk, stephano, sase, or naniwa beat a top flight korean in any meaningful competition? This is how it will always be. We will have a handful that are near the skill level or the top players and that's about as good as expected. We may get a random upset here and there but outside those 5-6 foreigners, who can really compete day in and day out?
On April 07 2012 01:06 Jisall wrote: There never was a skill gap. Blaming someone for being korean and winning is just an escape goat to protect one's ego. Somewhere along the line people started believing Koreans were better, and they defeated themselves before they even split their workers.
lolwut? They win everything because we think there is a skillgap? Please come back to reality and check the tournament results for the past year... Koreans win everything for a reason... They practice harder and smarter and therefore are better. The skill gap is only going to get worse if the BW pro's really do switch over.... I hope some foreigners are practising their asses off at least... would be nice to have one or two who can compete.
Explain IPL3. I like using Stephano as an example because of his attitude. Focus on your own gameplay to get better, don't focus on your opponents "superior skill". BW and SC2 may be based in the same universe, but they are hardly the same game. Edit: Koreans are people, not starcraft gods.
I don't understand what you are saying. You are saying that Koreans are better because we think they are better? -_-"
Exactly.
No they are better because foreigners are worse. I can't comprehend the level of denial you are in. lol
On April 07 2012 01:06 Jisall wrote: There never was a skill gap. Blaming someone for being korean and winning is just an escape goat to protect one's ego. Somewhere along the line people started believing Koreans were better, and they defeated themselves before they even split their workers.
lolwut? They win everything because we think there is a skillgap? Please come back to reality and check the tournament results for the past year... Koreans win everything for a reason... They practice harder and smarter and therefore are better. The skill gap is only going to get worse if the BW pro's really do switch over.... I hope some foreigners are practising their asses off at least... would be nice to have one or two who can compete.
Explain IPL3. I like using Stephano as an example because of his attitude. Focus on your own gameplay to get better, don't focus on your opponents "superior skill". BW and SC2 may be based in the same universe, but they are hardly the same game. Edit: Koreans are people, not starcraft gods.
I never said they were starcraft gods... but they are better, Stephano winning one tournament does not mean there is no skill gap. Koreans have won almost every single tournament since they started coming out here, foreigners are lucky to last more then 1 season in GSL lately. How can you even try to deny that their is a skill gap?
I'm not saying they are better just because they are Korean... I'm saying they are better because they practice more and practice smarter. Until foreigners do the same, the Koreans will keep getting better.
By saying the practice smarter, your saying that Koreans practice schedule is the best way to get better at starcraft. So if you don't practice like a korean then you cannot be as good as one. Your proving my point by assuming the Korean model is the strongest.
On April 07 2012 01:06 Jisall wrote: There never was a skill gap. Blaming someone for being korean and winning is just an escape goat to protect one's ego. Somewhere along the line people started believing Koreans were better, and they defeated themselves before they even split their workers.
lolwut? They win everything because we think there is a skillgap? Please come back to reality and check the tournament results for the past year... Koreans win everything for a reason... They practice harder and smarter and therefore are better. The skill gap is only going to get worse if the BW pro's really do switch over.... I hope some foreigners are practising their asses off at least... would be nice to have one or two who can compete.
Explain IPL3. I like using Stephano as an example because of his attitude. Focus on your own gameplay to get better, don't focus on your opponents "superior skill". BW and SC2 may be based in the same universe, but they are hardly the same game. Edit: Koreans are people, not starcraft gods.
I don't understand what you are saying. You are saying that Koreans are better because we think they are better? -_-"
Exactly.
No they are better because foreigners are worse. I can't comprehend the level of denial you are in. lol
This self-defeating attitude is exactly what i'm talking about.
way too heated argument, as long as we can enjoy something like the run socke had last mlg i would say it is "close enough" for me to be enjoyable, because i like to cheer for the underdog, unless mvp, mma or mkp play, then i cheer in that order ^.^
On April 07 2012 01:06 Jisall wrote: There never was a skill gap. Blaming someone for being korean and winning is just an escape goat to protect one's ego. Somewhere along the line people started believing Koreans were better, and they defeated themselves before they even split their workers.
lolwut? They win everything because we think there is a skillgap? Please come back to reality and check the tournament results for the past year... Koreans win everything for a reason... They practice harder and smarter and therefore are better. The skill gap is only going to get worse if the BW pro's really do switch over.... I hope some foreigners are practising their asses off at least... would be nice to have one or two who can compete.
Explain IPL3. I like using Stephano as an example because of his attitude. Focus on your own gameplay to get better, don't focus on your opponents "superior skill". BW and SC2 may be based in the same universe, but they are hardly the same game. Edit: Koreans are people, not starcraft gods.
I never said they were starcraft gods... but they are better, Stephano winning one tournament does not mean there is no skill gap. Koreans have won almost every single tournament since they started coming out here, foreigners are lucky to last more then 1 season in GSL lately. How can you even try to deny that their is a skill gap?
I'm not saying they are better just because they are Korean... I'm saying they are better because they practice more and practice smarter. Until foreigners do the same, the Koreans will keep getting better.
By saying the practice smarter, your saying that Koreans practice schedule is the best way to get better at starcraft. So if you don't practice like a korean then you cannot be as good as one. Your proving my point by assuming the Korean model is the strongest.
What.
The Korean practice model (which is merely practicing a ton) is considered the best way to get better at starcraft because those that follow it are the best at starcraft. There is no cultural relativity here. Practice makes perfect.
On April 07 2012 01:06 Jisall wrote: There never was a skill gap. Blaming someone for being korean and winning is just an escape goat to protect one's ego. Somewhere along the line people started believing Koreans were better, and they defeated themselves before they even split their workers.
lolwut? They win everything because we think there is a skillgap? Please come back to reality and check the tournament results for the past year... Koreans win everything for a reason... They practice harder and smarter and therefore are better. The skill gap is only going to get worse if the BW pro's really do switch over.... I hope some foreigners are practising their asses off at least... would be nice to have one or two who can compete.
Explain IPL3. I like using Stephano as an example because of his attitude. Focus on your own gameplay to get better, don't focus on your opponents "superior skill". BW and SC2 may be based in the same universe, but they are hardly the same game. Edit: Koreans are people, not starcraft gods.
I never said they were starcraft gods... but they are better, Stephano winning one tournament does not mean there is no skill gap. Koreans have won almost every single tournament since they started coming out here, foreigners are lucky to last more then 1 season in GSL lately. How can you even try to deny that their is a skill gap?
I'm not saying they are better just because they are Korean... I'm saying they are better because they practice more and practice smarter. Until foreigners do the same, the Koreans will keep getting better.
By saying the practice smarter, your saying that Koreans practice schedule is the best way to get better at starcraft. So if you don't practice like a korean then you cannot be as good as one. Your proving my point by assuming the Korean model is the strongest.
Don't deal in absolutes. Koreans' practice system is better, but it's by no means the best. There are always ways to improve.
Why do people have to make this thread like a dozen times a week. If you see foreigners consistently winning in korea, you can ask this question. Until then, stop, dear god please, stop.
On April 07 2012 01:06 Jisall wrote: There never was a skill gap. Blaming someone for being korean and winning is just an escape goat to protect one's ego. Somewhere along the line people started believing Koreans were better, and they defeated themselves before they even split their workers.
lolwut? They win everything because we think there is a skillgap? Please come back to reality and check the tournament results for the past year... Koreans win everything for a reason... They practice harder and smarter and therefore are better. The skill gap is only going to get worse if the BW pro's really do switch over.... I hope some foreigners are practising their asses off at least... would be nice to have one or two who can compete.
Explain IPL3. I like using Stephano as an example because of his attitude. Focus on your own gameplay to get better, don't focus on your opponents "superior skill". BW and SC2 may be based in the same universe, but they are hardly the same game. Edit: Koreans are people, not starcraft gods.
I never said they were starcraft gods... but they are better, Stephano winning one tournament does not mean there is no skill gap. Koreans have won almost every single tournament since they started coming out here, foreigners are lucky to last more then 1 season in GSL lately. How can you even try to deny that their is a skill gap?
I'm not saying they are better just because they are Korean... I'm saying they are better because they practice more and practice smarter. Until foreigners do the same, the Koreans will keep getting better.
By saying the practice smarter, your saying that Koreans practice schedule is the best way to get better at starcraft. So if you don't practice like a korean then you cannot be as good as one. Your proving my point by assuming the Korean model is the strongest.
Well, I'm not really sure what you're trying to prove because no one is saying the korean model is the best without proof. The results have backed that assertion, so it's not up for debate.
What's up for debate is whether it is worth for people to follow. Koreans sacrifice a lot for that practice regime. For example a social life in most cases. Foreigners are less willing to sacrifice their social lives to practice 12+ hours a day. Koreans aren't born better at sc2. They just sacrifice more and put in more effort and work into being better at it than foreigners.
The main problem is that with bw dying bw players will move to sc2 increasing the gap. There are players in bw who will be bonjwa or have the potential the skill gap will only increase.
EPT
