EPT[G] Superior Creep Spreading Philosophy - Page 4
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Harbinger631
United States376 Posts
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Render
United States249 Posts
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NrG.ZaM
United States267 Posts
Edit: read the spoilered part, and that takes care of the mechanics of putting this directly into play in a pretty simple and easy way, no reason to really NOT do this now. | ||
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Larkin
United Kingdom7161 Posts
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Grohg
United States243 Posts
I will agree that if you are trying to make a straight path towards your opponents base that you should leave a tumor behind every now and then. That is a smart idea but ideally you should be covering the whole map, not just a single highway to their front door. Divergence of pathways will inevitably slow your creep progress without those extra tumors at the front line. | ||
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darkscream
Canada2310 Posts
On March 30 2012 07:47 NrG.ZaM wrote: Edit: read the spoilered part, and that takes care of the mechanics of putting this directly into play in a pretty simple and easy way, no reason to really NOT do this now. the reason not to do it is that it is retarded. You will have less creep tumors overall if you do this, especially if you are actually good at spreading creep on cooldown. Losing your creep queen, and not defending the edge of your creep, is not an excuse to have bad mechanics on purpose so you can catch up later. Maybe try having some units to defend the creep, and vision on the map beyond the creep, instead of letting 2 marines scan and clear it out. Once the midgame and lategame hit, creep spread is easy to repair because chances are, you'll build up 25 spare energy on a queen at some point, even the best korean zergs do because once you've got 4-5 hatcheries you don't need perfect injects anymore, especially when making high cost, low larva units like infestors, brood lords, ultralisks etc. So you will HAVE extra energy on your queens to repair any damage to your creep spread, and you will have overlords to assist you catching up if you really think you need it. Please make this thread go away; its pretty bad advice. A lot of the people supporting this are saying things like "Yeah this is great when my creep queen is AFK in the middle of the map and they kill it and then kill all my creep!", when that should never happen, just like you should never have idle active creep tumors.. because if you were playing like a perfect mechanics robot, you would just have creep covering half the map with 50+ tumors and you wouldn't feel the need to have secret backup tumors in case you lost some. And it would be a serious commitment for your opponent to remove, rather than trivial because you actually produced the correct amount of tumors instead of stifling your production. edit: this is similar logic to protoss having more gateways than they can actually utilize, so that they don't have to use it on cooldown. Think 5gates off 1base or something like that. Makes up for your lack of multitasking, but not efficient at all. | ||
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KhAmun
United States1005 Posts
On March 30 2012 09:52 darkscream wrote: the reason not to do it is that it is retarded. You will have less creep tumors overall if you do this, especially if you are actually good at spreading creep on cooldown. Losing your creep queen, and not defending the edge of your creep, is not an excuse to have bad mechanics on purpose so you can catch up later. Maybe try having some units to defend the creep, and vision on the map beyond the creep, instead of letting 2 marines scan and clear it out. Once the midgame and lategame hit, creep spread is easy to repair because chances are, you'll build up 25 spare energy on a queen at some point, even the best korean zergs do because once you've got 4-5 hatcheries you don't need perfect injects anymore, especially when making high cost, low larva units like infestors, brood lords, ultralisks etc. So you will HAVE extra energy on your queens to repair any damage to your creep spread, and you will have overlords to assist you catching up if you really think you need it. Please make this thread go away; its pretty bad advice. A lot of the people supporting this are saying things like "Yeah this is great when my creep queen is AFK in the middle of the map and they kill it and then kill all my creep!", when that should never happen, just like you should never have idle active creep tumors.. because if you were playing like a perfect mechanics robot, you would just have creep covering half the map with 50+ tumors and you wouldn't feel the need to have secret backup tumors in case you lost some. And it would be a serious commitment for your opponent to remove, rather than trivial because you actually produced the correct amount of tumors instead of stifling your production. edit: this is similar logic to protoss having more gateways than they can actually utilize, so that they don't have to use it on cooldown. Think 5gates off 1base or something like that. Makes up for your lack of multitasking, but not efficient at all. First of all, you're saying that players should be better at spreading creep on cooldown, only to later say that you can lay them down with queen energy later because top koreans miss injects. Guess what buddy, top Koreans miss creep cooldowns too, especially in the later game. I don't think anyone is arguing that this is something that should be implemented in the early game, as obviously early creep spread is extremely important. But later in the game, when you already have creep in critical places, and I promise you that you're missing cooldowns, having a fast way to keep creep in important areas is quite useful. You can't use "defend the edge of your creep" as no zerg who is trying to go along with their own build is running into the middle of the map to meet a timing push. They're trying to delay engaging as long as possible, making defending the edge of your creep a terrible argument. And it's not about "queen being afk in the middle of the map" it's about already having a creep tumor completely ready to pop up and replace creep the second that the stimmed marines run backward. Your last few points are actually commentary to exactly why you SHOULD do this. You're going to miss cooldowns, therefor your creep spread is not limited by lack of forward tumors. Laying 3 more forward tumors is great and all, but when it's idling at as far as it can go because you haven't spread, those extra tumors become completely irrelevant. Now if you had those tumors in places near key locations, when it inevitably gets scanned, you can replace it immediately at first opportunity. Doesn't seem "retarded" to me. EDIT: I forgot to address your edit, I'm not sure if you're saying that the parallel is when you're using backup tumors, or not using backup tumors, because the latter would be correct. Again, same point as before, you're not hitting your cooldowns, adding tumors would be an attempt to make up for your inefficiency, while having them in strategic locations just shows foresight. | ||
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Azzur
Australia6260 Posts
The OP claims many pro's are inferior creep spreaders when there is 0 practical field experience proof. Convince some pros to use the method, show the results then make your claims. Calling these pros out based on some reasoning is just poor. I wouldn't mind if the post was a [D] thread asking people to investigate the technique. | ||
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Crackensan
United States479 Posts
I mean, if your scanning and killing creep tumors, you don't discriminate which ones are "active" and which ones are "spent". You murder every tumor you see. | ||
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ETisME
12700 Posts
On March 30 2012 07:40 thatdontmakecent wrote: I don't understand why players never use this creep strategy either. Ideally you would have a wide avenue of creep with "ready to go" tumors off to the side of the main path. That way when scans carve out the middle, you can fill back in after the fight and regrow your creep almost immediately. Obviously it depends on the game situation and the map, but creep spread is definitely the most unrefined and autopilot of normal zerg upkeep; it's disappointing. because why won't the active creep tumor be killed as well? and for example, why would you have the chance to recreep when the terran is trying to be offensive? You only really get that chance when you denied the push. which means you could do that with the creep spreading queen as well. | ||
p4NDemik
United States13896 Posts
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