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The subject of this thread is not a license to roll out your inaccurate, misinformed, poorly conceived, tired, and downright offensive theories about race relations. |
On March 09 2012 07:35 AegiS_ wrote:
If I was black, I would have just lost a lot of respect for TL from this thread.
He's a "professional" commentator, if you want the e-sports scene to be taken at least SOMEWHAT seriously from the rest of the world, there needs to be a higher standard than this (this, also referring to the countless people in this thread saying who cares).
If he was some no-name on ladder, then yeah I wouldn't care.. but guess what? He isn't some no-name. He is, like it or a not, a representative of OUR community because of the viewers he gets. So an example needs to be set by EG, or whoever, so that it doesn't continue and our community improves. That said, let the guy continue commentating. What the fuck? Hip-pop and rap are so much bigger then eSports and use the word all the time, your logic is fail.
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I really think people are getting riled up for nothing. My take on the situation is that you guys do the exact same thing or are unprofessional yourself if you hold your professionality standards of orb to yourself. Any body who bms should have no right to say anything. We all bm and when we get angry we forget who we are or what we represent. It happens to everybody. For those who say , hes being unprofessional, if you work and get drunk after you get off work , you probably swear and do stupid shit too. who are you to be able to judge somebody for being unprofessional in his free time when you have been at one point unprofessional yourself. For those of you who say we have a problem that he lied about the situation. You are asking the guy to publically apologize for getting angry in public and saying the N word. I bet half of you would not have the courage to admit to your employer and risk your job for your morals. If you guys are mad at him for being " racist", I find it hilarious. People say stupid shit all the time that is racist. I bet one time in your life you either laughed at a racist joke or said something racist and didnt debunk yourself for it. Saying a public figure is being an asshole is just hypocrictical and TMZ esk. If you guys are truly better than ORBS racist ranting, I honestly think you guys would not be sensationalizing this or getting all angry and saying this is unacceptable when you can not honestly i bet testify to yourself that you are any better in your free time or when you're mad.
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On March 09 2012 07:37 Kuja wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2012 07:34 Klondikebar wrote:On March 09 2012 07:32 frozenrb wrote:
Wonder how many times, you called something gay, even if you didn't have anything homophobic in mind...
It's childish like hell still... He is so stiupid:D The fact that you think the term "gay" can be used to describe something you don't like is inherently homophobic. why does it have to be homophobic? gay means happy, you know he could just be misanthropic.
Gay is actually one of the few words in the english language that has been subject to complete verbicide in that in no normal context does it retain it's old definition.
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/verbicide
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On March 09 2012 07:33 laugoatse wrote:
wow, seriously? so much drama over a few insults on the ladder? orb gets mad after losing? big fucking deal.
It's probably a big deal for EG. Having someone that represents them act like an ignorant 5 year old and cuss out multiple people publicly and then try to lie about it to cover it up doesn't reflect well on them.
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If you want to have a job in the puplic eye even the appearance of racism can be disaster. That's what Orb is finding out. In 1988 Jimmy the Greek made some foolish racist comments and never worked again. Maintaining an image that will stand up to public scrutiny takes more emotional stability than Orb has. A white guy slinging the n-word around is playing with fire under any circumstances, even more so when he is using it as an insult.
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You guys realize that chat in replays can be edited, right?
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I think is more about the effort that he puts in raging somebody. It's rly low lvl...
nigger... maybe he didn't mean something racist but "nigger clan" is for me like racist combo
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duno whats worse, a shity thread about someone being bm or orb being bm.
anyway just be consistent with the who and whys of the witches you burn *cough* idra *cough*
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On March 09 2012 07:33 blobrus wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2012 07:23 WallieP wrote:On March 09 2012 07:18 SgtCoDFish wrote:
The issue is him lying, not the words imo. Although it'd probs be best if he cut the n-word out.
Not going to go mental over this though, I'm bored of this pseudo-drama shit. The n-word? You mean nigger? Nigger is pretty much a normal thing to say tbh, its got nothing to do with racism, its just a word thats easier to say then black people.. just like niggers say whiteguy, it also isnt racism.. also niggers can say nigger to fellow niggers, while when a whiteguy says the same its all of the sudden racism? People saying that nigger cant be said should lighten up a bit And about the lying part, who cares that Orb lies... (i dont even know him while i have the feeilng i know pretty much players in the sc2 community) Now i think about it, this topic is pretty bad I don't know where you're from, but I dare you to go around saying that. Here's some advice, don't. On topic, I've never really liked orb.
Im from the Netherlands, and i do know people that are black and tbh, i think they would be more offended if i would say "you black guy" then if i would say "nigger"... i would say neither since i dont care if someone is black or white, but i dont really get why people are so offended by nigger. And a topic that is made about about someone being unnice/rage cause of a bad game, even though he lied, is something i really dont get.. its the internetsz and a person on his own stream
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On March 09 2012 07:34 Laurens wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2012 07:28 ZAiNs wrote:On March 09 2012 07:23 WallieP wrote:On March 09 2012 07:18 SgtCoDFish wrote:
The issue is him lying, not the words imo. Although it'd probs be best if he cut the n-word out.
Not going to go mental over this though, I'm bored of this pseudo-drama shit. The n-word? You mean nigger? Nigger is pretty much a normal thing to say tbh, its got nothing to do with racism, its just a word thats easier to say then black people.. just like niggers say whiteguy, it also isnt racism.. also niggers can say nigger to fellow niggers, while when a whiteguy says the same its all of the sudden racism? People saying that nigger cant be said should lighten up a bit And about the lying part, who cares that Orb lies... (i dont even know him while i have the feeilng i know pretty much players in the sc2 community) Now i think about it, this topic is pretty bad I hope you're joking. Also, Orb was pretty popular even back in beta (he played in the HDH), so obviously you don't know as much about the SC2 scene as you think. I'm from Belgium, studying in the UK. In Belgium people don't really care much about the n-word, as WallieP describes. In the UK though, everyone is damn sensitive about it! I guess it's different everywhere.
I wonder why that is...
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On March 09 2012 07:39 Logros wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2012 07:33 laugoatse wrote:
wow, seriously? so much drama over a few insults on the ladder? orb gets mad after losing? big fucking deal. It's probably a big deal for EG. Having someone that represents them act like an ignorant 5 year old and cuss out multiple people publicly and then try to lie about it to cover it up doesn't reflect well on them.
like idra?
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He didn't just say "Nigger" in a sanitized and analytic way. He said things like "dumb nigger" repeatedly, indicating he thinks blacks are stupid. And if he didn't have that in mind, why did he renege? Clearly he is an ignorant idiot, and we shouldn't associate with people like that. People and actions like these are the first steps to the degradation of ESPORTS.
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Well good to see there's still a lot of people willing to tolerate racism, homophobia or sexism in our community and just brush it off as unimportant. The responses to this thread were more saddening than the OP itself.
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On March 09 2012 07:39 Logros wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2012 07:33 laugoatse wrote:
wow, seriously? so much drama over a few insults on the ladder? orb gets mad after losing? big fucking deal. It's probably a big deal for EG. Having someone that represents them act like an ignorant 5 year old and cuss out multiple people publicly and then try to lie about it to cover it up doesn't reflect well on them.
That's a pretty funny thing to say when their premier player is idra
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Sure, out of context it's not a big deal for someone to use racial slurs in an online game. But what separates the SC2 community is that we have higher standards than the average gaming community. It's completely appropriate to be discussing these things so that Orb, and other players, know that they're out of line.
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On March 09 2012 07:39 3772 wrote:
You guys realize that chat in replays can be edited, right?
Considering half of this is screenshots from his stream with cam and viewer's talk from what they've seen on the stream previously, It's irrelevant.
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Couldn't care less.
It would be different if he was using the term in a derogatory manner against a black person, but he is obviously using it akin to a swear word.
That being said, pretty dumb saying such things when you are semi-e famous.
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On March 09 2012 07:15 pedalpusher wrote:
What a ridiculous thread.
"Ohh my, he said the N-word, let's burn him at a stake"
The apartheid in South Africa was racism, so what the genocide in Rwanda. This is the use of one word being taken entirely out of context. I'm sure most rational people will agree with me here.
To the former, that's true. To the latter however, not so much. Objectively speaking, saying nigger in a derogatory way is considered inappropriate. To say otherwise is tantamount to saying that saying nigger in a derogatory way is completely appropriate, which it isn't.
Unless it's being taken out of context, what, 3 or 4 times? And even then, it's very clearly a deep level of nerd rage where the user is so hopelessly immature and useless that they can't actually articulate their own feelings. Nerds get like that, nerds rage, Orb doesn't seem to be any different.
It's not acceptable for anyone to use it in a derogatory way, and that's really just the bottom line. He gets more scrutiny because we hold certain people to a higher level. And even strangers on the street, if the equivalent situation went down in public the response would be overwhelmingly negative towards the clearly enraged person using the word nigger in a derogatory way. In other words, the fact that this occurred online has no bearing on it's objective moral and social wrongness.
So the fact that he's a rather well known member of the community, combined with the rather large amount of evidence pointing towards the notion that his go-to "I'm angry rawr" phrase is telling people they're a nigger, a certain amount of frustration is allowed by the community. It's not really drama, that's just some go-to-phrase that internet dwellers like to sink back to to try and sound like internet tough guys (Internet tough guys can check themselves at the door, it's pitiful and embarrassing to read), it's justified anger. Drama is known by TNT however, and if you take note, the things you see on TNT aren't really being displayed here.
I mean, at the most basic level, if someone I knew frequently abused the word nigger, I would stop talking to them. In fact, I'm currently at 2 people in my life that I have known for extended periods of time and then simply stopped talking to them due to their use of language.
I'm more annoyed, actually, at the people that demand some sort of apology. Oh how media has ruined the idea of reputation. Reputation isn't even a thing anymore, so none of this actually matters, all Orb has to do is apologize and everything is fine. Until it happens a lot aga--ohwait. See the cycle? It doesn't do anything, him apologizing doesn't change the fact that his guttural instinct is to call people niggers for no reason other than it's the worst thing he can think of and he believes it to be acceptable.
It's not like we're particularly short on casters, if anything there's plenty of them. Why not just weed the ones who can't conduct themselves out?
And while sure, it's not our business to know what goes on in his private life, he goes out of his way to make it our business by publicly showing it off to viewers. One can have sex with animals in the comfort of their own home (and, according to the many orb defenders here that's perfectly within his boundaries to do and animal rights be damned), but when you have sex with animals in public, expect some degree of scrutiny. You can't possibly realistically justify the notion that what is done on one's own free time is their business alone, intervening people's personal business happens all the time, they're called drug busts and dad's walking in on their daughter with their boyfriend.
It's horribly, horribly naive and immature to try and claim that what goes on in his stream is his business--it's objectively not. Not only is it just simply not your personal business because someone else actually owns your stream and could, at any given time remove it from existence for any reason they want to (IE: Twitch.tv), but it's not your business alone because you show it off publicly.
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On March 09 2012 07:41 Tsuki.eu wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2012 07:39 Logros wrote:On March 09 2012 07:33 laugoatse wrote:
wow, seriously? so much drama over a few insults on the ladder? orb gets mad after losing? big fucking deal. It's probably a big deal for EG. Having someone that represents them act like an ignorant 5 year old and cuss out multiple people publicly and then try to lie about it to cover it up doesn't reflect well on them. like idra?
Idra got out of hand sometimes but what Orb is saying is 10x worse. Idra just calls people bad/dumb.
On March 09 2012 07:40 WallieP wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2012 07:33 blobrus wrote:On March 09 2012 07:23 WallieP wrote:On March 09 2012 07:18 SgtCoDFish wrote:
The issue is him lying, not the words imo. Although it'd probs be best if he cut the n-word out.
Not going to go mental over this though, I'm bored of this pseudo-drama shit. The n-word? You mean nigger? Nigger is pretty much a normal thing to say tbh, its got nothing to do with racism, its just a word thats easier to say then black people.. just like niggers say whiteguy, it also isnt racism.. also niggers can say nigger to fellow niggers, while when a whiteguy says the same its all of the sudden racism? People saying that nigger cant be said should lighten up a bit And about the lying part, who cares that Orb lies... (i dont even know him while i have the feeilng i know pretty much players in the sc2 community) Now i think about it, this topic is pretty bad I don't know where you're from, but I dare you to go around saying that. Here's some advice, don't. On topic, I've never really liked orb. Im from the Netherlands, and i do know people that are black and tbh, i think they would be more offended if i would say "you black guy" then if i would say "nigger"... i would say neither since i dont care if someone is black or white, but i dont really get why people are so offended by nigger. And a topic that is made about about someone being unnice/rage cause of a bad game, even though he lied, is something i really dont get.. its the internetsz and a person on his own stream
If you don't understand why people are offended by 'nigger' then I'd read up on some American history.
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On March 09 2012 06:15 Shiori wrote:
Who cares? This isn't even on par with casters making controversial statements. This is a person laddering on their own account and BMing. I guarantee nobody would care if he didn't use the word 'nigger.'
My response is very U.S.-centric.
Yea, that's precisely the point. He used a racial slur. Claim it isn't racist as much as you want, but it is a racial slur. Imo, we need to be having a conversation about the lingering effects of racism rather than attempting to argue whether the use of the word is "racist" or not. The fact of the matter is, at least in the U.S., we are a society of structural racism--racial privileges and disadvantages are structured into our social instituions. With the emergence of this popular phenomenon where people do racist things and then claim they're not being racist (the "I'm not racist, but..." phenomenon), racism is perpetuated by people who are are simultaneously trying to shut down the conversation about contemporary racism. You can't have your cake and eat it to. If you do something that is coded as racism, you don't get the chance to deny others a discussion about the relevance of race and the continuation of racism in society--at least in U.S. society.
The conversation begins when we admit that we might not fully understand when we are racist. Hiding or denying obvious racism kills conversation about an important topic. How do others KNOW they aren't racist? I certainly have done things that I thought weren't racist only to learn that they were. I know avoid doing those things.
tl;dr This isn't just about the n-word. It's about the manner in which people popularly dismiss/excuse their own racism and the racism of others by simply saying the are not being racist. This kills conversation when, imo, conversation is one of the more powerful tools we have in realizing the ways that, in the U.S., we are at risk of being racist even when are not trying to be racist.
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EPT
