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On January 30 2012 10:03 SC2Phoenix wrote:Show nested quote +On January 30 2012 09:56 iky43210 wrote:
doesn't nestea have something like 78% winrates in ZvP? maybe he should take some lesson In the last 3-4 months Nestea has dropped alot of games to protoss even outside GSL. He dropped 4 games to naniwa, 2 games to HuK and many more losses in GSL. No idea where 78% winrate comes from.
From here.
About the video, well, apart from being cocky (which is actually okay for me, why not - a big ego doesnt hurt), the video didnt really explain anything, or did i miss something?
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On January 30 2012 10:04 MichaelDonovan wrote:Show nested quote +On January 30 2012 10:01 darkest44 wrote:On January 30 2012 06:57 CameronJ wrote:
How can you say "IdrA never stops whining" when literally every OTHER zerg says the same?
Shit man, can't argue with hard evidence like that. I like where you showed recent interviews from every zerg pro player to back up your completely made up claim. Nicely done. Not to mention the fact players of every race whine no matter what because these immature kids don't want to take responsibility for their own failures or learn from them and rather just blame the game. Idra's been saying the same shit forever, and zergs certainly haven't failed to post tourney wins despite his nonsense, and zergs are still posting results. The last bigish tournament was IEM Kiev and zerg took 2nd and 4th, beating protoss along the way. Match ups swing back and forth slightly favoring one or the other all the time, that's how a game like this works, blanket black and white ridiculous statements like "zergs don't beat protoss" from dramaqueens like Idra are just retarded. If you watched the GSL group selections you would know. I think he assumed that everyone is keeping up with the scene, so he felt he didn't need to post evidence. I don't think that's an unfair assumption to make. People who mindlessly post nonsense without even being up to date with the current situation are in your words, "just retarded."
I watched GSL group, I saw what 1 zerg say the matchup is kinda hard (and also say zergs they didn't want to play ZvsZs either... so what, it's fine to not really favor a particular match up at the moment)? That's completely different from claiming "every zerg says 'zerg doesn't beat protoss'" which is completely stupid and false.
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On January 30 2012 09:56 VirgilSC2 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 30 2012 09:54 m4inbrain wrote:On January 30 2012 09:51 Incognoto wrote:On January 30 2012 09:32 m4inbrain wrote:On January 30 2012 09:26 Incognoto wrote:On January 30 2012 09:24 m4inbrain wrote:On January 30 2012 09:19 SafeAsCheese wrote:On January 30 2012 09:15 oxxo wrote:On January 30 2012 09:11 darkscream wrote:
If idra says protoss is too strong he's whining.
if nestea says it he's not whining.
herp derp. Idra complains all the time about everything. It's never his fault and always the games and/or the opponents. That's the difference. Except that when he losses, he constantly says "i didn't play very well" or "i played like trash", implying that he didn't play well and that it was his own fault for losing. Yet haters seem to ignore this, and wait for that one moment when he says "Z not doing great vs P right now" and suddently he is shit complainer again who cannot ever win compared to glorious stephano master race. It's why pros hate every one of you posters on this board. Try to watch "Idra highlights" on youtube. He constantly says something, but its not "i didnt play very well" etc, for sure. He almost never sees a fault of his own. Its almost always either balance, or "he did something that just a really bad player would do, and i didnt thought that he was that bad". That's ladder play, not tournament play. It's not the same thing, think about it. Oh, youre right. Then you could watch the video of him smashing his keyboard to pieces with his headset after losing (well a bit exagerated, but he did lose his F4 key  ). I think you know what i mean, you just dont want to admit it. Just remember all the ragequits, or premature ragequits - im pretty sure that he didnt lean back and thought "well, i played stupid, didnt i". You know it, we all know it. Off topic, but meh. For me at least, thats the major reason why i dont give a shit about his opinion. Of course, he could play circles around me - but this one opinion of him, that will NEVER change. Ever. So who cares when he whines anyway, its A not new and B will never stop. Even if they nerf Protoss to the ground and buff zergs to heavens, the day he loses a game vs a protoss hes on it again. Well to be fair, that was a while ago and Fenix isn't quite Idra's calibre (not saying Fenix didn't outplay Idra in that series). Besides that video is entertainment value and not even half the picture. You're forgetting interviews, in fact in a recent one Idra blatantly admitted he sucked in his Code S games. I actually didnt forget it, i didnt see it. Could you link it, or at least tell me which one i have to read/look? It wasn't Fenix he played. It was coL.Trimaster at MLG Raleigh I believe. It might have been Orlando....one of the two I was at anyway. Pretty sure it was Raleigh though.
Oh screw me, you're right. My bad.. I'll edit. Thanks for pointing it out.
Tsh, Terrans, they're all the same. :p :p
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On January 30 2012 10:01 darkest44 wrote:
I mean what do these kids expect? It's not like it'd be smart of blizzard to instantly patch a game with huge changes anytime one matchup swings like 5% in the favor of one race or the other (god forbid!), whining does absolutely nothing. So if the game is balanced why does Blizzard create balance patches at all? Was the game balanced before reapers were nerfed? Win ratios were about the same, that doesn't mean the game was balanced. Part of the reason Blizzard fixes things is because pro players point out the problems with the game.
A player who practices 8 hours a day has the credibility to point out flaws in the game design. What's your credibility?
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On January 30 2012 09:51 aderum wrote:Show nested quote +On January 30 2012 09:42 Luppy1 wrote:On January 30 2012 09:39 RezChi wrote:
Has idrA ever thought about that he just probably sucks at that match-up not that "zergs doesn't really beat protoss right now"? Have you thought about maybe he's right? In a recent interview, DRG complained about playing zerg (balance wise and map wise) as well? Didn't you see Stephano completely dismantle Protoss today? He always says that ZvP is EZPZ
He also only competes in easy(er) foreign tournaments. No opinion on balance either way but stephano's results aren't something you should use to argue overall balance, or any single person for that matter.
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On January 30 2012 10:06 darkest44 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 30 2012 10:04 MichaelDonovan wrote:On January 30 2012 10:01 darkest44 wrote:On January 30 2012 06:57 CameronJ wrote:
How can you say "IdrA never stops whining" when literally every OTHER zerg says the same?
Shit man, can't argue with hard evidence like that. I like where you showed recent interviews from every zerg pro player to back up your completely made up claim. Nicely done. Not to mention the fact players of every race whine no matter what because these immature kids don't want to take responsibility for their own failures or learn from them and rather just blame the game. Idra's been saying the same shit forever, and zergs certainly haven't failed to post tourney wins despite his nonsense, and zergs are still posting results. The last bigish tournament was IEM Kiev and zerg took 2nd and 4th, beating protoss along the way. Match ups swing back and forth slightly favoring one or the other all the time, that's how a game like this works, blanket black and white ridiculous statements like "zergs don't beat protoss" from dramaqueens like Idra are just retarded. If you watched the GSL group selections you would know. I think he assumed that everyone is keeping up with the scene, so he felt he didn't need to post evidence. I don't think that's an unfair assumption to make. People who mindlessly post nonsense without even being up to date with the current situation are in your words, "just retarded." I watched GSL group, I saw what 1 zerg say the matchup is kinda hard? That's completely different from claiming "every zerg says 'zerg doesn't beat protoss'" which is completely stupid and false.
Watch it again. And by "every zerg", I'm sure he meant "every relevant zerg" and by "says zerg doesn't beat protoss" I'm sure he means "says it in the way they need to say it in order to not get into trouble with the groups they represent."
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On January 30 2012 10:01 darkest44 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 30 2012 06:57 CameronJ wrote:
How can you say "IdrA never stops whining" when literally every OTHER zerg says the same?
Shit man, can't argue with hard evidence like that. I like where you showed recent interviews from every zerg pro player to back up your completely made up claim. Nicely done. Not to mention the fact players of every race whine no matter what because these immature kids don't want to take responsibility for their own failures or learn from them and rather just blame the game. Idra's been saying the same shit forever, and zergs certainly haven't failed to post tourney wins despite his nonsense, and zergs are still posting results. The last bigish tournament was IEM Kiev and zerg took 2nd and 4th, beating protoss along the way. Match ups swing back and forth slightly favoring one or the other all the time, that's how a game like this works, blanket black and white ridiculous statements like "zergs don't beat protoss" from dramaqueens like Idra are just retarded.
It has nothing to do with them being immature. They play this game for a living, not just for fun. If something is imbalanced and causes them to lose it can cost them a *lot* of money; it can be frustrating losing thousands of dollars because of what they perceive (and often is) imbalance. Idra doesn't think he's the perfect player and he, just like every pro, will look to improve even when the match-up is "imbalanced," but that's not going to make him or anyone else not speak their mind.
The reason Idra gets so much shit is because he over-exaggerates in his statements and everyone takes it literally. He's not actually saying that Protoss has 100% win-rate against Zerg or anything; he's just stating that ZvP is P favored at the moment, a sentiment a lot of top Zergs and even top Protosses would agree with. Honestly it doesn't even need to be true imbalance for that to happen, Protoss winning more often could quickly shift to Zerg winning more often when Zerg finds new strategies to handle whatever Toss is doing atm and vice versa. It's funny, because if he had just said the exact same thing with "Zergs are having a hard time against Protoss right now" very few people would be bitching.
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On January 30 2012 10:03 SC2Phoenix wrote:Show nested quote +On January 30 2012 09:56 iky43210 wrote:
doesn't nestea have something like 78% winrates in ZvP? maybe he should take some lesson In the last 3-4 months Nestea has dropped alot of games to protoss even outside GSL. He dropped 4 games to naniwa, 2 games to HuK and many more losses in GSL. No idea where 78% winrate comes from.
actually its 80%, just checked. http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/sc2-korean/players/29_NesTea
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I seriously don't see why people would use Nestea's balance comments as credible anyways - half a year or so ago he kept claiming protoss was OP, only to reveal shortly after that his ZvP win rate was 90%. Sure his ZvP may indeed be struggling right now, but its impossible to gauge the amount of exaggeration in it imho.
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On January 30 2012 10:05 m4inbrain wrote:Show nested quote +On January 30 2012 10:03 SC2Phoenix wrote:On January 30 2012 09:56 iky43210 wrote:
doesn't nestea have something like 78% winrates in ZvP? maybe he should take some lesson In the last 3-4 months Nestea has dropped alot of games to protoss even outside GSL. He dropped 4 games to naniwa, 2 games to HuK and many more losses in GSL. No idea where 78% winrate comes from. From here.About the video, well, apart from being cocky (which is actually okay for me, why not - a big ego doesnt hurt), the video didnt really explain anything, or did i miss something? How does that link prove anything? You linked me strictly his GSL games which also date back over a year ago when Iam talking about nestea in the last 3-4 months. I wouldn't be surprised if Nestea was sub 50% ZvP right now.
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I wonder what the various circumstances of why HuK can't practice efficiently is. Any guesses? My guess is girlfriend.
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On January 30 2012 09:53 Horseballs wrote:Show nested quote +On January 30 2012 09:42 Luppy1 wrote:On January 30 2012 09:39 RezChi wrote:
Has idrA ever thought about that he just probably sucks at that match-up not that "zergs doesn't really beat protoss right now"? Have you thought about maybe he's right? In a recent interview, DRG complained about playing zerg (balance wise and map wise) as well? DRG, Nestea and the like may hint at complaining, but they never come out with such strong statements as "Zerg doesn't beat toss" or "Zerg isn't supposed to win against protoss," something which Idra does quite regularly.
Oh, sorry. I didn't get the memo about how subtle complaining is better than simply speaking your mind. Also, Idra is always able to justify his complains. Just watch some of his actual video interviews. Most of those who're whining about what he said are just calling him out without being able to prove him wrong in the first place.
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Good luck to both! But if ever they both win their matchups, I would like Idra to advance. 
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On January 30 2012 10:05 Incognoto wrote:Show nested quote +On January 30 2012 09:54 m4inbrain wrote:On January 30 2012 09:51 Incognoto wrote:On January 30 2012 09:32 m4inbrain wrote:On January 30 2012 09:26 Incognoto wrote:On January 30 2012 09:24 m4inbrain wrote:On January 30 2012 09:19 SafeAsCheese wrote:On January 30 2012 09:15 oxxo wrote:On January 30 2012 09:11 darkscream wrote:
If idra says protoss is too strong he's whining.
if nestea says it he's not whining.
herp derp. Idra complains all the time about everything. It's never his fault and always the games and/or the opponents. That's the difference. Except that when he losses, he constantly says "i didn't play very well" or "i played like trash", implying that he didn't play well and that it was his own fault for losing. Yet haters seem to ignore this, and wait for that one moment when he says "Z not doing great vs P right now" and suddently he is shit complainer again who cannot ever win compared to glorious stephano master race. It's why pros hate every one of you posters on this board. Try to watch "Idra highlights" on youtube. He constantly says something, but its not "i didnt play very well" etc, for sure. He almost never sees a fault of his own. Its almost always either balance, or "he did something that just a really bad player would do, and i didnt thought that he was that bad". That's ladder play, not tournament play. It's not the same thing, think about it. Oh, youre right. Then you could watch the video of him smashing his keyboard to pieces with his headset after losing (well a bit exagerated, but he did lose his F4 key ). I think you know what i mean, you just dont want to admit it. Just remember all the ragequits, or premature ragequits - im pretty sure that he didnt lean back and thought "well, i played stupid, didnt i". You know it, we all know it. Off topic, but meh. For me at least, thats the major reason why i dont give a shit about his opinion. Of course, he could play circles around me - but this one opinion of him, that will NEVER change. Ever. So who cares when he whines anyway, its A not new and B will never stop. Even if they nerf Protoss to the ground and buff zergs to heavens, the day he loses a game vs a protoss hes on it again. Well to be fair, that was a while ago and Fenix isn't quite Idra's calibre (not saying Fenix didn't outplay Idra in that series). Besides that video is entertainment value and not even half the picture. You're forgetting interviews, in fact in a recent one Idra blatantly admitted he sucked in his Code S games. I actually didnt forget it, i didnt see it. Could you link it, or at least tell me which one i have to read/look? Here you are: http://myeg.net/team/the-first-salvos-of-a-new-war-gsl-2012/
Thanks mate.
Although "He 15 hatches a lot and when he doesn’t 15 hatch he 10 pools, plus doing something unexpected and cheesy in the first game of a series can be good psychologically." is quite funny after seeing the video posted earlier. ;>
And, btw, im completely okay with the statement he did there: "I despise ZvP, but SlayerS is great about helping me prepare for matches and Avenge is nothing special. I’m sure they’ll help me figure something out and I’ll beat him.".
Now compared to that, look at this: "IdrA: Well, Zerg doesn’t really beat Protoss right now. People will accuse me of bitching, but that was the general opinion expressed by all the pros in the group selection as well. The matchup is absolutely awful, but I hope I’ll win anyway."
Is it just me, or is it hard to believe that both statements are from the same player? He couldve been just fine, instead hes opting for whining. And please, its just that. Nobody would really care if he would just state an opinion (at least for me) - but he is not. Hes bitching, hes whiny, he is excusing himself even before a match started - thats A not confident (which is already a huge disadvantage) and B, well, whiny.
Im sorry, at least in my eyes.
edit
How does that link prove anything? You linked me strictly his GSL games which also date back over a year ago when Iam talking about nestea in the last 3-4 months. I wouldn't be surprised if Nestea was sub 50% ZvP right now.
Well, what do you want? Its a statistic vs. korean protoss, isnt it? Go figure, it goes back even more. But in 2011 alone he won 75%. The last one vs Naniwa in december. I wont invent a new statistic just to prove something - someone asked where the 77% are from and i linked it, so deal with it oO
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Maybe if Idra hadn't been saying the same thing for 15 months this would be worth discussing =/
Not to say ZvP hasn't recently gotten harder, but since Idra's complaints haven't actually changed there's nothing to discuss here from Idra that hasn't already been discussed by Idra.
If someone with a good ZvP record said this and gave evidence in an interview perhaps we could discuss it.
Btw: don't get why people are bringing up the group selections as evidence. Nestea complains in every group selection, but he does it with a laugh. He also says he would have won every championship ever if he was Terran, but people don't take that seriously...or do they?
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Does anyone else feel this is IdrA's way of staying in the limelight? His controversial views and not his actual profession.
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Love Idra's first answer.
He's basically saying, you can't just beat the Koreans with just macro/mechanis, that's just half the battle. You have to play mindgames.
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I wish interviewers would sometimes put a bit more effort into the questions they ask of players.
It would've been nice if they explored Idra's thoughts on why he feels ZvP is hard for zergs right now.
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On January 30 2012 10:12 Luppy1 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 30 2012 09:53 Horseballs wrote:On January 30 2012 09:42 Luppy1 wrote:On January 30 2012 09:39 RezChi wrote:
Has idrA ever thought about that he just probably sucks at that match-up not that "zergs doesn't really beat protoss right now"? Have you thought about maybe he's right? In a recent interview, DRG complained about playing zerg (balance wise and map wise) as well? DRG, Nestea and the like may hint at complaining, but they never come out with such strong statements as "Zerg doesn't beat toss" or "Zerg isn't supposed to win against protoss," something which Idra does quite regularly. Oh, sorry. I didn't get the memo about how subtle complaining is better than simply speaking your mind. Also, Idra is always able to justify his complains. Just watch some of his actual video interviews. Most of those who're whining about what he said are just calling him out without being able to prove him wrong in the first place.
Subtle complaining is at the very least a hell of a lot more professional than outright whining, and just because he can give reasons for why "zerg can't win against protoss" doesn't mean that that ridiculous statement suddenly comes true. I'm sure anybody can create an initially plausible sounding "x can't beat y," but it doesn't make it a true statement and it isn't at all productive. All it does is reinforce a negative image of that player.
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EPT
