Here is a list of the dates of the formation of every country that exists in the world.
The United States is the oldest country in the America's. Older than Brazil, Mexico, Argentina, etc. But most people would say these countries have more culture than the US. Why? Most of their modern day citizens are also descendants from other places, i.e Spain, Africa, etc..
The Unites States of America is also older than the following countries in Europe: Germany, Austria, Belgium, Finland, Hungary, Netherlands, Norway, Sweden, Switzerland to name a few. In fact, the US is actually older than most European countries.
So you see, if you want to base culture on when the country was formed, then the US actually has one of the most cultured countries in the world...
The only reason why people say countries in Europe have more culture is because those countries were formed from people that had customs and cultural identities from many years before.
Here is a link for the people who make fun of Americans who use the word "soccer." The term was in fact used in British society along with the word "football" to describe the game many many years ago. The word subsequently fell out of favor and "football" was later used predominantly.
On January 21 2012 19:52 Starshaped wrote: I didn't realize baseball was a multinational sport, lol. American football and baseball I thought were basically only played/cared about in the states.
Baseball is huge in Japan. But he didn't say football was multinational, he said baseball and basketball, and while both sports are very very minor in most countries, at least you play them, I would be surprised to find any European who didn't play basketball in school during gym class or such.
I wouldn't say basketball is minor in most countries at all. I would imagine it is the most popular indoor sport in Europe by some margin.
Baseball is a whole different matter, I can't really tell why it was put in the same basket (pardon the pun) with basketball in the OP.
Basketball isn't even close to handball, which is far more likely to be the most popular indoor sport in Europe.
Here is a list of the dates of the formation of every country that exists in the world.
The United States is the oldest country in the America's. Older than Brazil, Mexico, Argentina, etc. But most people would say these countries have more culture than the US. Why? Most of their modern day citizens are also descendants from other places, i.e Spain, Africa, etc..
The Unites States of America is also older than the following countries in Europe: Germany, Austria, Belgium, Finland, Hungary, Netherlands, Norway, Sweden, Switzerland to name a few. In fact, the US is actually older than most European countries.
So you see, if you want to base culture on when the country was formed, then the US actually has one of the most cultured countries in the world...
The only reason why people say countries in Europe have more culture is because those countries were formed from people that had customs and cultural identities from many years before.
Excuse me, did you just claim USA is older than Sweden? Sweden became sweden when gustav vasa was crowned king, which was in 1523. Please explain to me how USA is even close?
On January 21 2012 19:52 Starshaped wrote: I didn't realize baseball was a multinational sport, lol. American football and baseball I thought were basically only played/cared about in the states.
Baseball is huge in Japan. But he didn't say football was multinational, he said baseball and basketball, and while both sports are very very minor in most countries, at least you play them, I would be surprised to find any European who didn't play basketball in school during gym class or such.
I wouldn't say basketball is minor in most countries at all. I would imagine it is the most popular indoor sport in Europe by some margin.
Baseball is a whole different matter, I can't really tell why it was put in the same basket (pardon the pun) with basketball in the OP.
Basketball isn't even close to handball, which is far more likely to be the most popular indoor sport in Europe.
There is Europe outside of Scandinavia.
That said, in all honesty I'm actually not sure off the top of my head that basketball is more popular. But intuitively it does seem to be the case considering most of eastern Europe, Russia, Turkey, etc.
On January 21 2012 20:30 ondik wrote: I fail to see how anything -except of jazz- mentioned in OP should be an argument against "americans have no culture". You can argue about semantics (or maybe that's the point of the thread?), but if someone asks about american culture and you mention american football, he will probably think you're joking.
Why is it that I've never seen a Czech say anything neutral or pro American? Only negative. Did we do something to you guys? I'm genuinely curious. I have nothing against your nation, it even has a cool name. It just seems like our nations should have no reason to oppose one another.
On January 21 2012 20:27 Kotreb wrote: @medzo: jeans is debatable being American (Levi Strauss, you know what i mean) but tobacco would be more of an native Americans "thing", unless you count them in modern day understanding of American culture, but that would make any debate/discussion silly and would unfortunately exclude all the things immigrants have done (in a way, i f you know what i mean)
No I dont really follow you. Native Americans play a big part of American culture.
Levi Strauss became an American and then he made Levi jeans in California. Since jeans were produced and made popular in America, I consider it American.
On January 21 2012 20:30 ondik wrote: I fail to see how anything -except of jazz- mentioned in OP should be an argument against "americans have no culture". You can argue about semantics (or maybe that's the point of the thread?), but if someone asks about american culture and you mention american football, he will probably think you're joking.
Why would American Football not be part of American culture?
On January 21 2012 20:30 False_Peace wrote: The Unites States of America is also older than the following countries in Europe: Germany, Austria, Belgium, Finland, Hungary, Netherlands, Norway, Sweden, Switzerland to name a few. In fact, the US is actually older than most European countries.
While obviously not true to begin with, I'd just like to address my own country: 1523-06-06 That's the formation of "Sweden". Even then, Sweden existed before that, in less clear forms.
The fact is that America has no heritage older than about 300 years not counting the Indians.
Lastly, the "America has no culture" thing is a jab from Europeans at their ally and friend and counting other former colonies therefore becomes quite silly.
Here is a list of the dates of the formation of every country that exists in the world.
The United States is the oldest country in the America's. Older than Brazil, Mexico, Argentina, etc. But most people would say these countries have more culture than the US. Why? Most of their modern day citizens are also descendants from other places, i.e Spain, Africa, etc..
The Unites States of America is also older than the following countries in Europe: Germany, Austria, Belgium, Finland, Hungary, Netherlands, Norway, Sweden, Switzerland to name a few. In fact, the US is actually older than most European countries.
So you see, if you want to base culture on when the country was formed, then the US actually has one of the most cultured countries in the world...
The only reason why people say countries in Europe have more culture is because those countries were formed from people that had customs and cultural identities from many years before.
stop saying things that are wrong:
Sweden 1523-06-06 Gustav Vasa elected King of Sweden and marking a definite secession from the Kalmar Union. Vatican City 1274 Birth of current form of government the Papal conclave in 1274 Norway 872 King Harald I of Norway unifies the Petty kingdoms of Norway.
And now look at the United States of America :
United States 1787-09-17 Ratification of the United States Constitution replaced the previous Articles of Confederation creating a new system of government.
Here is a list of the dates of the formation of every country that exists in the world.
The United States is the oldest country in the America's. Older than Brazil, Mexico, Argentina, etc. But most people would say these countries have more culture than the US. Why? Most of their modern day citizens are also descendants from other places, i.e Spain, Africa, etc..
The Unites States of America is also older than the following countries in Europe: Germany, Austria, Belgium, Finland, Hungary, Netherlands, Norway, Sweden, Switzerland to name a few. In fact, the US is actually older than most European countries.
So you see, if you want to base culture on when the country was formed, then the US actually has one of the most cultured countries in the world...
The only reason why people say countries in Europe have more culture is because those countries were formed from people that had customs and cultural identities from many years before.
Excuse me, did you just claim USA is older than Sweden? Sweden became sweden when gustav vasa was crowned king, which was in 1523. Please explain to me how USA is even close?
Sorry, the Sweden reference was a mistake. Sweden was in fact created in 1523 as you say, so it is older. However I believe my point is still valid that The United States is an older country than the majority of most European countries and all of North and South America.
On January 21 2012 17:38 Streltsy wrote: I love how prejudiced idiots always point out age as a sort of measure of culture, considering that many countries in Europe only formed ~200 years ago as well. Many of the traditions and practices which cultures now identify themselves by were invented along with the concept of "nation" (which is rather new) during the 19th century. ex. Italy, Germany
Germany as a cultural nation is way older than Germany itself, there have been german countries for hundreds of years which shared a common culture and some of them don't even belong to germany today. Best example: Austria Our cultures are pretty much the same and a little bit lesser extent our history too. Goethe lived in a time where there was no UNIFIED Germany, but when he said German people knew what he ment. Try educating yourself a bit before saying something like that.
Here is a list of the dates of the formation of every country that exists in the world.
The United States is the oldest country in the America's. Older than Brazil, Mexico, Argentina, etc. But most people would say these countries have more culture than the US. Why? Most of their modern day citizens are also descendants from other places, i.e Spain, Africa, etc..
The Unites States of America is also older than the following countries in Europe: Germany, Austria, Belgium, Finland, Hungary, Netherlands, Norway, Sweden, Switzerland to name a few. In fact, the US is actually older than most European countries.
So you see, if you want to base culture on when the country was formed, then the US actually has one of the most cultured countries in the world...
The only reason why people say countries in Europe have more culture is because those countries were formed from people that had customs and cultural identities from many years before.
stop saying things that are wrong:
Sweden 1523-06-06 Gustav Vasa elected King of Sweden and marking a definite secession from the Kalmar Union. Vatican City 1274 Birth of current form of government the Papal conclave in 1274 Norway 872 King Harald I of Norway unifies the Petty kingdoms of Norway.
And now look at the United States of America :
United States 1787-09-17 Ratification of the United States Constitution replaced the previous Articles of Confederation creating a new system of government.
And guess what? Who discover america? European
The natives discovered America about an eternity before Europeans discovered the world wasn't flat. Not Europeans. Europeans were, not ironically, the imperialist jackasses who committed genocide so they could claim land.
Here is a list of the dates of the formation of every country that exists in the world.
The United States is the oldest country in the America's. Older than Brazil, Mexico, Argentina, etc. But most people would say these countries have more culture than the US. Why? Most of their modern day citizens are also descendants from other places, i.e Spain, Africa, etc..
The Unites States of America is also older than the following countries in Europe: Germany, Austria, Belgium, Finland, Hungary, Netherlands, Norway, Sweden, Switzerland to name a few. In fact, the US is actually older than most European countries.
So you see, if you want to base culture on when the country was formed, then the US actually has one of the most cultured countries in the world...
The only reason why people say countries in Europe have more culture is because those countries were formed from people that had customs and cultural identities from many years before.
Here is a link for the people who make fun of Americans who use the word "soccer." The term was in fact used in British society along with the word "football" to describe the game many many years ago. The word subsequently fell out of favor and "football" was later used predominantly.
You link to a wiki article that says the Netherlands was formed in 1578, then you say the U.S. is older than the Netherlands.
Here is a list of the dates of the formation of every country that exists in the world.
The United States is the oldest country in the America's. Older than Brazil, Mexico, Argentina, etc. But most people would say these countries have more culture than the US. Why? Most of their modern day citizens are also descendants from other places, i.e Spain, Africa, etc..
The Unites States of America is also older than the following countries in Europe: Germany, Austria, Belgium, Finland, Hungary, Netherlands, Norway, Sweden, Switzerland to name a few. In fact, the US is actually older than most European countries.
So you see, if you want to base culture on when the country was formed, then the US actually has one of the most cultured countries in the world...
The only reason why people say countries in Europe have more culture is because those countries were formed from people that had customs and cultural identities from many years before.
Excuse me, did you just claim USA is older than Sweden? Sweden became sweden when gustav vasa was crowned king, which was in 1523. Please explain to me how USA is even close?
Sorry, the Sweden reference was a mistake. Sweden was in fact created in 1523 as you say, so it is older. However I believe my point is still valid that The United States is an older country than the majority of most European countries and all of North and South America.
Thing is, even if USA is an older country by technicallity than, say, Germany and Finland, it doesn't have any relevance. The group of people who formed Germany had been "germans" for many hundreds of years before the current modern country of Germany was formed. Finish people had their culture separate from Russians before they became autonomous. The same can't be said for USA, since before USA was formally formed, it was just angry englishmen.
On January 21 2012 20:30 False_Peace wrote: The Unites States of America is also older than the following countries in Europe: Germany, Austria, Belgium, Finland, Hungary, Netherlands, Norway, Sweden, Switzerland to name a few. In fact, the US is actually older than most European countries.
While obviously not true to begin with, I'd just like to address my own country: 1523-06-06 That's the formation of "Sweden". Even then, Sweden existed before that, in less clear forms.
The fact is that America has no heritage older than about 300 years not counting the Indians.
Lastly, the "America has no culture" thing is a jab from Europeans at their ally and friend and counting other former colonies therefore becomes quite silly.
"The actual age of the kingdom of Sweden is unknown. It depends mostly on whether Sweden should be considered a nation when the Svear (Sweonas) ruled Svealand or if the emergence of the nation started with the Svear and the Götar (Geats) of Götaland being united under one ruler. In the first case, Sweden was first mentioned as having one single ruler in the year 98 by Tacitus, but it is almost impossible to know for how long it had been this way. However, historians usually start the line of Swedish monarchs from when Svealand and Götaland were ruled under the same king, namely Erik the Victorious (Geat) and his son Olof Skötkonung in the 10th century. These events are often described as the consolidation of Sweden, although substantial areas were conquered and incorporated later."
Here is a list of the dates of the formation of every country that exists in the world.
The United States is the oldest country in the America's. Older than Brazil, Mexico, Argentina, etc. But most people would say these countries have more culture than the US. Why? Most of their modern day citizens are also descendants from other places, i.e Spain, Africa, etc..
The Unites States of America is also older than the following countries in Europe: Germany, Austria, Belgium, Finland, Hungary, Netherlands, Norway, Sweden, Switzerland to name a few. In fact, the US is actually older than most European countries.
So you see, if you want to base culture on when the country was formed, then the US actually has one of the most cultured countries in the world...
The only reason why people say countries in Europe have more culture is because those countries were formed from people that had customs and cultural identities from many years before.
Your post is kind of true. But I think the statement is meant as in US as a society is new, not necessarily as a political entity. Creation of Germany was not like creation of US, there was no sudden emergence of a whole new society on the ashes of aboriginal societies.
And to nitpick, Netherlands, Hungary, Norway, Sweden and Switzerland are much older than US even politically. You can even make case for Germany and even Austria. Only Finland and Belgium actually fit your statement.
As for the OP. I think saying that US has no culture is strange, but I agree that their culture feels bland and somewhat artificial. Maybe it is how there are no fixed points in there, I don't know , I did not go much deeper into that other than the feeling that I (and I think many other) have. For example architecture of buildings for habitation in US is, from my point of view, terrible. Industrial/business one is fine. But houses are the worst kind of kitsch imaginable. They just do not fit their surroundings at all and I think it has something to do with a lack of historical precedent as I see the same phenomena showing up in Europe recently.
On January 21 2012 20:30 False_Peace wrote: The Unites States of America is also older than the following countries in Europe: Germany, Austria, Belgium, Finland, Hungary, Netherlands, Norway, Sweden, Switzerland to name a few. In fact, the US is actually older than most European countries.
Please... Do not confuse the date of latest sovereignty with actual age of the country. You must also take into account the fact that most countries in Europe were losing and regaining their sovereignty numerous times over the years. It's not like when you lose sovereignty and then get it back you're suddenly a different country with new culture and everything.
Take Poland for example, since 960 (first date it appears as a sovereign country, not just a bunch of tribes) Poland has not only shifted its borders many times, it has also been taken apart by foreign countries at least 3 times, one of them resulting in Poland disappearing from the maps of the world entirely. Does it mean that the country is younger than USA? I don't think so.
USA didn't have to go through all the wars, dynastic politics and what not that European countries did. Check this out:
On January 21 2012 20:27 Kotreb wrote: @medzo: jeans is debatable being American (Levi Strauss, you know what i mean) but tobacco would be more of an native Americans "thing", unless you count them in modern day understanding of American culture, but that would make any debate/discussion silly and would unfortunately exclude all the things immigrants have done (in a way, i f you know what i mean)
No I dont really follow you. Native Americans play a big part of American culture.
Levi Strauss became an American and then he made Levi jeans in California. Since jeans were produced and made popular in America, I consider it American.
As in continent culture, than sure, but in terms of American culture as in people than you have to differentiate it because although they were defeated/enslaved/call it whatever you like i can't see any part of their culture incorporated into american culture after the arrival if immigrants. Correct me if i'm wrong please. The way i see it you can either use term culture and link it either towards indians or since the arrival of immigrants because these two cultures never really melted into one like what happened before the "conqured nations"...
edit: Croatia has been here since the beginning of the 7th century, and as a kingdom since the beginning of the 10th/late 9th century.
Here is a list of the dates of the formation of every country that exists in the world.
The United States is the oldest country in the America's. Older than Brazil, Mexico, Argentina, etc. But most people would say these countries have more culture than the US. Why? Most of their modern day citizens are also descendants from other places, i.e Spain, Africa, etc..
The Unites States of America is also older than the following countries in Europe: Germany, Austria, Belgium, Finland, Hungary, Netherlands, Norway, Sweden, Switzerland to name a few. In fact, the US is actually older than most European countries.
So you see, if you want to base culture on when the country was formed, then the US actually has one of the most cultured countries in the world...
The only reason why people say countries in Europe have more culture is because those countries were formed from people that had customs and cultural identities from many years before.
Here is a link for the people who make fun of Americans who use the word "soccer." The term was in fact used in British society along with the word "football" to describe the game many many years ago. The word subsequently fell out of favor and "football" was later used predominantly.
You sir have no idea what you talk about and just for you, I'm going to quote myself here:
On January 21 2012 20:42 SilentchiLL wrote:
Germany as a cultural nation is way older than Germany itself, there have been german countries for hundreds of years which shared a common culture and some of them don't even belong to germany today. Best example: Austria Our cultures are pretty much the same and a little bit lesser extent our history too. Goethe lived in a time where there was no UNIFIED Germany, but when he said German people knew what he ment. Try educating yourself a bit before saying something like that.
On January 21 2012 17:54 pavement ist rad wrote: Look at pop culture (music, movies, shows etc) in every single other country in the world and tell me they're not trying to be more like America. Culture is America's #1 export.
Quantity = Quality assumption....
Assumption two is that pop music, TV shows and movies = culture
I see this way too often in this thread. (Not that it's not a form of culture, but I wouldn't compare it to certain other things and feel good about myself afterwards)
EPT
