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On January 22 2012 03:02 Talin wrote:Show nested quote +On January 22 2012 02:45 domovoi wrote:On January 22 2012 02:44 Seraphone wrote:On January 22 2012 02:38 domovoi wrote:
People who say the US lacks culture or even "refined culture" or try to imply the short history of the US somehow means it's culture is inferior are insecure nationalistic fucks, and their tribalistic attitude is the very reason why Europe was such a hellhole for such a long time following the sack of Rome. What a bizzare and ridiculous thing to say. America is run by European migrants. We are the same people as of the sacking of Rome. Not that the sacking of Rome as anything at all to do with American culture. I'm saying having the attitude that "My culture is superior to yours" is what led to a millennia of European in-fighting following the break up of Rome. It's unhealthy and, frankly, quite stupid, though to be sure Americans (or Chinese or Koreans or anyone else in the world) are no stranger to such a thing. It's easy to look at history and say that something is "stupid" (or illogical, irrational, inefficient, etc). The same can be said for present day as well. Even though we have the technology to do it (and we've had it for a while now), we are still split into different countries, we do not share a common language, we bicker over obsolete concepts like religion and outdated social and economic ideologies, we fail to even acknowledge, let alone attempt to solve, a myriad of problems on a global level that are necessary for the advancement (or even long term survival) of humanity. You could say that all of that is stupid, irrational and a direct consequence of "my culture is superior to yours" attitude as well. And in a way it is - and looking at it that way is extremely frustrating when you realize how much of our planet's resources are essentially being wasted on completely meaningless concepts that don't lead anywhere. But that's simply how humans are, and all those faults are a consequence of us not being perfectly rational. The exact same thing is happening today, only on a larger scale and with more variables. In fact, it is causing a lot more damage now than it did during the millennia of in-fighthing in Europe.
At a macro, human species level, I pretty much agree with your attitude that "it is what it is." At an individual level, though, feelings of cultural superiority should be discouraged.
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Didnt read the whole thing, but i hope the OP and everyone else are well aware that basketball was invented by a canadian...not saying usa have no culture, just saying it was a canadian who invented basketball.
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On January 22 2012 02:59 zalz wrote:Show nested quote +On January 22 2012 02:52 domovoi wrote:On January 22 2012 02:43 HoldenR wrote:On January 22 2012 02:24 False_Peace wrote:On January 22 2012 02:17 HoldenR wrote:On January 22 2012 01:58 xrapture wrote:
The US has the most millionares and billionares by a mile, as well as the most companies in the fortune 500. You consider that culture? That's something to be ashamed of considering the absolute horrid wealth gap in your country. You know what U.S. also has? Nearly 50 million people living below the poverty line. Should we consider that culture, too? Honestly, this entire arrogance of "we are the best ever everyone else jelly lets intervene in the rest of the world's business and tell them we know better" is why people hate you. It's why 9/11 happened. This attitude is the most adverse to America's success that you could possibly imagine and you're actually proud of it. Even if America was the #1 nation in the world, you can proudly proclaim that people like yourself are the ones preventing it from reaching it's potential of becoming even better. You're officially a drag on your own country. Congratulations. Oh I see how it is. As soon as we start to defend ourselves by stating some achievement we have had we drag our country down?? So we should just sit there and let people like you bash us to no end... Let me guess, you have never been to America and are speaking entirely based on things you have heard or read? Not only is it not a prerequisite to have been to a country to understand it's affairs considering the internet puts us in touch with people around the globe on a daily basis, but I have been to the U.S. in fact. I've been to Washington D.C., Miami, New York City and Los Angeles. Also, this isn't "defending yourself", it's scrambling to put down an argument and then just insulting your opponent. That's not self defense, that's portruding the exact stereotype that people claim they dislike about your attitude toward the rest of them. Why on earth would you prove them right? How about saying "Hey guys, I know America isn't really the best place in the world. It is for some and it isn't for others. In fact, lots of countries are great to live. I know I wouldn't mind living somewhere else, because I appreciate a great amount of cultures!" Because you know what? You'll be hard pressed to find a EU inhabitant that wouldn't be willing to say this. We don't hate eachother's countries, and we aren't as disgustingly nationalistic in every aspect. All we're asking is "tone down the goddamn nationalism by about 20 levels because it's getting ridiculous", and your response is to tone it up some more. To prove us wrong, do the opposite of what we expect you to, and we will respect you for it. It's odd that you describe this as an American stereotype. If I started a thread that said "The French have no culture," you can be damn sure there will be plenty of people giving me examples of French culture, especially the aspects that most people find superior (food comes to mind). But if an American does it, now he's just being stereotypically nationalistic? And you claim Americans are too closed-minded? Ironic. To maybe bridge the gap between cultures, it's important to understand how Dutch people tend to look at succes. If you draw a nice picture and get a compliment you are almost obligated to talk it down or you are will already seem to be braging. If you are good at playing an instrument you can show it, but you can't talk about how good you are, even if you do you have to constantly be modest about it or you will appear arrogant. Talking about your achievements and succes is almost in itself considered braging in the Netherlands. Even slightly hinting at having a lot of money means you are braging. If you let slip how succesful your parents are, you are braging. I think such a low tolerance for even the smallest display of achievements can clash with American culture which is a lot more geared towards competition. If you had to put it in a slide then Holland would be among the lower countries to care for competition whilst countries in asia like Japan would be on the end of the spectrum. America being somewhere in between.
Well if you play an instrument greatly you won't have to tell somebody how awesome you are, they should know it when they hear you play.
And when they know that you play an instrument but never hear you play they probably don't care so why should you tell em about it?
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Americans have a culture. If you can't understand that or you believe Americans don't, take an anthropology class.
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American culture is the art of trolling.
Separation of church of state - yet all 13 years of public school I attended all stundents were forced to stand and recite "The pledge of Alligience"...[quote]"One nation under God" Also, every note/coin has "In God we trust" written on them.
*FREEDOM*
Television - Jersey Shore and MTV, edited/censored media in general really
But the best trolling comes from the news and that show Cops, both of which are used primarily to scare and keep white americans in their houses because America is O so scary with all the black americans commiting violent crimes.
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On January 22 2012 03:05 Nders wrote:
Didnt read the whole thing, but i hope the OP and everyone else are well aware that basketball was invented by a canadian...not saying usa have no culture, just saying it was a canadian who invented basketball.
It was a Canadian living in the US who invented it. It was popularized in the US and exported from there and is currently a much bigger part of US culture than it is a part of Canadian culture. Sort of like how soccer/football is a big part of a lot of cultures, but it was invented in Britain.
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On January 22 2012 03:05 SilentchiLL wrote:Show nested quote +On January 22 2012 02:59 zalz wrote:On January 22 2012 02:52 domovoi wrote:On January 22 2012 02:43 HoldenR wrote:On January 22 2012 02:24 False_Peace wrote:On January 22 2012 02:17 HoldenR wrote:On January 22 2012 01:58 xrapture wrote:
The US has the most millionares and billionares by a mile, as well as the most companies in the fortune 500. You consider that culture? That's something to be ashamed of considering the absolute horrid wealth gap in your country. You know what U.S. also has? Nearly 50 million people living below the poverty line. Should we consider that culture, too? Honestly, this entire arrogance of "we are the best ever everyone else jelly lets intervene in the rest of the world's business and tell them we know better" is why people hate you. It's why 9/11 happened. This attitude is the most adverse to America's success that you could possibly imagine and you're actually proud of it. Even if America was the #1 nation in the world, you can proudly proclaim that people like yourself are the ones preventing it from reaching it's potential of becoming even better. You're officially a drag on your own country. Congratulations. Oh I see how it is. As soon as we start to defend ourselves by stating some achievement we have had we drag our country down?? So we should just sit there and let people like you bash us to no end... Let me guess, you have never been to America and are speaking entirely based on things you have heard or read? Not only is it not a prerequisite to have been to a country to understand it's affairs considering the internet puts us in touch with people around the globe on a daily basis, but I have been to the U.S. in fact. I've been to Washington D.C., Miami, New York City and Los Angeles. Also, this isn't "defending yourself", it's scrambling to put down an argument and then just insulting your opponent. That's not self defense, that's portruding the exact stereotype that people claim they dislike about your attitude toward the rest of them. Why on earth would you prove them right? How about saying "Hey guys, I know America isn't really the best place in the world. It is for some and it isn't for others. In fact, lots of countries are great to live. I know I wouldn't mind living somewhere else, because I appreciate a great amount of cultures!" Because you know what? You'll be hard pressed to find a EU inhabitant that wouldn't be willing to say this. We don't hate eachother's countries, and we aren't as disgustingly nationalistic in every aspect. All we're asking is "tone down the goddamn nationalism by about 20 levels because it's getting ridiculous", and your response is to tone it up some more. To prove us wrong, do the opposite of what we expect you to, and we will respect you for it. It's odd that you describe this as an American stereotype. If I started a thread that said "The French have no culture," you can be damn sure there will be plenty of people giving me examples of French culture, especially the aspects that most people find superior (food comes to mind). But if an American does it, now he's just being stereotypically nationalistic? And you claim Americans are too closed-minded? Ironic. To maybe bridge the gap between cultures, it's important to understand how Dutch people tend to look at succes. If you draw a nice picture and get a compliment you are almost obligated to talk it down or you are will already seem to be braging. If you are good at playing an instrument you can show it, but you can't talk about how good you are, even if you do you have to constantly be modest about it or you will appear arrogant. Talking about your achievements and succes is almost in itself considered braging in the Netherlands. Even slightly hinting at having a lot of money means you are braging. If you let slip how succesful your parents are, you are braging. I think such a low tolerance for even the smallest display of achievements can clash with American culture which is a lot more geared towards competition. If you had to put it in a slide then Holland would be among the lower countries to care for competition whilst countries in asia like Japan would be on the end of the spectrum. America being somewhere in between. Well if you play an instrument greatly you won't have to tell somebody how awesome you are, they should know it when they hear you play. And when they know that you play an instrument but never hear you play they probably don't care so why should you tell em about it?
You don't seem to grasp that one isn't better then the other. They are simply different ways of looking at it.
The self flagellation can just as easily be incredibly annoying.
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America has its own modern culture but it is still very young. I like some american music and movies. I have no problem with American people (I have problem with your stupid government thou O_O). But I would never want to be born in America (p.s. I love Canada)
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The fact that almost everybody in the world learns English at some time in their life is a testament to American culture. That and America is the world's #1 exporter of music, movies, has some of the world's premier sports leagues, and a ton of monuments. To say America has no culture is just silly.
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On January 22 2012 02:52 domovoi wrote:Show nested quote +On January 22 2012 02:43 HoldenR wrote:On January 22 2012 02:24 False_Peace wrote:On January 22 2012 02:17 HoldenR wrote:On January 22 2012 01:58 xrapture wrote:
The US has the most millionares and billionares by a mile, as well as the most companies in the fortune 500. You consider that culture? That's something to be ashamed of considering the absolute horrid wealth gap in your country. You know what U.S. also has? Nearly 50 million people living below the poverty line. Should we consider that culture, too? Honestly, this entire arrogance of "we are the best ever everyone else jelly lets intervene in the rest of the world's business and tell them we know better" is why people hate you. It's why 9/11 happened. This attitude is the most adverse to America's success that you could possibly imagine and you're actually proud of it. Even if America was the #1 nation in the world, you can proudly proclaim that people like yourself are the ones preventing it from reaching it's potential of becoming even better. You're officially a drag on your own country. Congratulations. Oh I see how it is. As soon as we start to defend ourselves by stating some achievement we have had we drag our country down?? So we should just sit there and let people like you bash us to no end... Let me guess, you have never been to America and are speaking entirely based on things you have heard or read? Not only is it not a prerequisite to have been to a country to understand it's affairs considering the internet puts us in touch with people around the globe on a daily basis, but I have been to the U.S. in fact. I've been to Washington D.C., Miami, New York City and Los Angeles. Also, this isn't "defending yourself", it's scrambling to put down an argument and then just insulting your opponent. That's not self defense, that's portruding the exact stereotype that people claim they dislike about your attitude toward the rest of them. Why on earth would you prove them right? How about saying "Hey guys, I know America isn't really the best place in the world. It is for some and it isn't for others. In fact, lots of countries are great to live. I know I wouldn't mind living somewhere else, because I appreciate a great amount of cultures!" Because you know what? You'll be hard pressed to find a EU inhabitant that wouldn't be willing to say this. We don't hate eachother's countries, and we aren't as disgustingly nationalistic in every aspect. All we're asking is "tone down the goddamn nationalism by about 20 levels because it's getting ridiculous", and your response is to tone it up some more. To prove us wrong, do the opposite of what we expect you to, and we will respect you for it. It's odd that you describe this as an American stereotype. If I started a thread that said "The French have no culture," you can be damn sure there will be plenty of people giving me examples of French culture, especially the aspects that most people find superior (food comes to mind). But if an American does it, now he's just being stereotypically nationalistic? And you claim Americans are too closed-minded? Ironic.
The "defense" of saying "EVERYONE ELSE IS JUST JEALOUS OF OUR SUCCESS" is baseless nationalism. First you have to realize that we don't even view "success" in the same sense you do. We don't view success in individual successes (i.e. we have the most millionaires), we view a nation's success as the happiness, wellbeing and success of the entire nation as these parameters. With all of these, the U.S. scores far lower than many European nations. But I'm not going to say "GREATEST CONTINENT IN THE WORLD(?)", because I realize that to some people the opportunity and reward for individual success that America offers could be more valuable.
Our cultures differ. I recognize this. I will not recognize that this makes me better than you or vice versa, but the entire American attitude that suggests "anyone who disagrees with us being the best is JEALOUS" simply shows that you don't understand that culture is relative and a disgusting cultural trait inherent in a large majority of your nation that says "no matter what, being from the U.S. makes you better than others". It's about looking down on others as much as it's about bragging about your own approach being superior. This isn't supposed to be what culture is like. Different, but equal, yeah? What's more, if someone from another nation disagrees with that, you are unwilling to accept the idea that they can rationally justify their disagreeing. They MUST be jealous. Because no one could have a different culture than yours.
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America has no history, now that is true.
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On January 22 2012 02:33 jj33 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 22 2012 02:29 RetroAspect wrote:On January 22 2012 02:25 jj33 wrote:
from a anthrological point of view american "culture" is the same as any modern country that gets their food in the supermarket.
We are classified the same as say Korea, Japan, France etc. WE all get our food the same way.
That's just 'food" culture, only a small segment of culture as a whole... shortminded much? Also, i dare to point out that the percentage of agraric and artisanal food is a LOT bigger in Europe and most other countries.. not shortminded at all. ask any anthropologist.
the way any culture or group of people get their food is what forms that culture. nothing is more important that how you get your food.
everything else is superficial.France and any modern day european country is classified the same as the USA from an anthropological view. So what i digest in form of nutrients determines how i think and how great people in my culture come to their peaks on intelligence? Not values or social-economics or history, just to name a few?? And "ask ANY..." for god's sake man... don't even start with such things as a form of argument. And even if your feeble statement held true, did you fail to read what i wrote about artisanal food in europa vs us? and when you said that's just "food culture" once again how you get your food is the most important and beefiest part of culture. and maybe you should stop with the insults if you're wrong.
Edit: wrong form, heh. the quote is only till "blablabla ... anthropological view"
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On January 22 2012 03:12 Mondieu wrote:
America has no history, now that is true.
Trying to think of something that Romania is known for...
..
...
....
....still trying
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We fight with everyone over what the word "football means".
In your football, there is no ball, and hardly any kicking. There is nothing to fight about.
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On January 22 2012 03:15 Hikko wrote:Show nested quote +On January 22 2012 03:12 Mondieu wrote:
America has no history, now that is true. Trying to think of something that Romania is known for... .. ... .... ....still trying
Your own ignorance is not a testimony to anything but your own ignorance. Why would you think telling people you don't know something about X proves a point about X? All it proves is how little you know and how proud you are of it.
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On January 22 2012 03:12 HoldenR wrote:
The "defense" of saying "EVERYONE ELSE IS JUST JEALOUS OF OUR SUCCESS" is baseless nationalism.
Agreed, but it's odd you consider this an American stereotype when pretty much everyone does this (look at the "French bashing" thread for example).
Our cultures differ. I recognize this. I will not recognize that this makes me better than you or vice versa, but the entire American attitude that suggests "anyone who disagrees with us being the best is JEALOUS" simply shows that you don't understand that culture is relative and a disgusting cultural trait inherent in a large majority of your nation that says "no matter what, being from the U.S. makes you better than others". It's about looking down on others as much as it's about bragging about your own approach being superior. This isn't supposed to be what culture is like. Different, but equal, yeah? What's more, if someone from another nation disagrees with that, you are unwilling to accept the idea that they can rationally justify their disagreeing. They MUST be jealous. Because no one could have a different culture than yours.
I mostly agree with you and have been saying similar things in this thread. But if someone (not you) is going to make the trollish and ignorant claim that X country lacks culture or even "refined" (whatever the fuck that means) culture, then the expected response would be people giving examples of where X country is "superior." Personally, I didn't get the sense that he was being all "America, FUCK YEAH," but I'm only going by what you quoted.
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On January 22 2012 03:15 TheAntZ wrote:In your football, there is no ball, and hardly any kicking. There is nothing to fight about.
Such ignorance, but I will start a separate thread on the etymology and origins of football.
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I think the reason people say that is that America has many different cultures. Take for example the Southeast and compare it to the Northeast. Although both share basic holidays like Christmas and Thanksgiving, the two have different cultures. However, I do feel that California lacks culture, especially in the area I live in. I think that California is so ethnically diverse there has been no single dominating culture that runs society. This also means that minorities have a hard time finding others of their race to celebrate.
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On January 22 2012 03:22 domovoi wrote:Show nested quote +On January 22 2012 03:15 TheAntZ wrote:We fight with everyone over what the word "football means". In your football, there is no ball, and hardly any kicking. There is nothing to fight about. Such ignorance, but I will start a separate thread on the etymology and origins of football.
I dont see how its ignorant to state facts.
One game has a ball that you kick around with your feet.
Another has an egg you toss around and run with.
What am i missing here?
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Calling americans cultureless is an extremely common thing here in Brasil, one usual thing we often hear is that americans are so inane that they can't spot the region they live in on their own country's map and that we most likely know more about their history than they do, again, that's what he hear around here, and then there are the jokes regarding fat people, e.g most americans eat so much that they get to places by rolling, etc.
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EPT
