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Braavos36390 Posts
On July 14 2005 10:30 tranCe[RaGe] wrote:Show nested quote +On July 14 2005 10:12 fanta[Rn] wrote:On July 14 2005 10:02 tranCe[RaGe] wrote:no joke my g/f's grandma currently 78 years of age was just recently raped by a black man  why do u have to mention "black"? i don't get it, isn't it just a man who raped her? :s Look at miniority crime ratio to white... and we will talk again... its a fact miniorities in this country cause more crime sorry im not racist just a fact. thanks
if that was indeed the intention of your post and if you really think that the issue is as simple as stastics, you're very, very ignorant
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I dunno man, you can't really expect any good advice on how to feel and how to react without giving the particulars of the situation. That is because something like this is completely situational.
To use an example of what I mean: When I was about 18 I was dating a girl and she was on vacation with her family in Costa Rica and got this phone call at like 3am from her telling me she got raped. Anyways, I guess some instructor of some sort at the resort they were at took her out for a "private lesson", got her good and drunk, and had sex with her.
See, the circumstances here are everything. They, in themselves, told me exactly how to react:
1) I was pissed off at her parents. Yes, let your 17 year old daughter go out with a strange man late at night with no supervision. Genius, Einstein. This is after your 14 year old daughter desides not to go cause he's "creepy." Congrats, you just lost points.
2) After hearing that she got drunk, I wasn't 100% sure she was even "raped." This girl used to turn into a real whore when she had too much to drink (fuck, I never complained). But I can imagine she could have consented to it, sobered up, then decided it wasn't a very good idea.
3) Gave my old girlfriend the "Congratuations, You're a Moron Award." You exercised the worst judgement possible. Not to be insensitive, but what did you expect? It's a dirty shame, but it coulda been prevented. The only good decision you ever made was dating me.
So yah, I guess you can see now that your reaction should depend entirely on the finer details. Just try not to be an ass and be supportive.
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You know what, I'm going to go ahead and double post because this:
the a) is quite racist and if that was his intention the word "black" probably shouldn't have been included in his post, but if b) was his intention, it's still slightly bigoted but "black man" won't get you banned but "no joke, grandma raped buy man with large penis" will, and his intent was to show just how severe the event was
is the kind of shit that really pisses me off.
Why can no comment on race ever be dropped without being considered "racist"? If I describe a person as "Chinese, wearing a blue shirt." people will say "oh, you identified him based on race, you dirty racist. No, I simply picked his most distinguishing feature and related it to him. If someone is 8 feet tall, I'll mention "the really tall guy," cause that is how you'll notice him. If someone is Chinese, it just so happens that his most distinguishing physical feature just might be that he "looks Chinese."
It is not racist to say a black man raped somebody. It is racist to say that he raped her because he's black. This is no different than saying that the majority of people in federal prisons are black. This isn't a racist statement, it's a fact. It's like saying that the majority of BW gamers are male. It's a statement of a fact based on a majority. Racism would be saying that these people are in prison because they are black.
Over-sensitive people who are quick to label an argument or a person as racist destroy debate. If a person says to you that over-immigration is hurting the economy, you'll call him a racist. This in fact allows you to sidestep his point and brush him off, no matter how valid his argument may be.
As a side note, those who are quick to label are usually the most racist of all. I'll call someone a dirty Mexican and have no problem with it because it means about as much to me as calling him a dirty Lakers fan. It's completely immaterial.
Yet these other chumps will consciously treat others differently because of race. They'll make a point to be extra nice around black people, or minorities. Why do they do this? Because, they so badly want to distance themselves from those they see as racist that they overcompensate. It's like holding up a sign that says "Hey, look at me... I'm NOT racist, I PROMISE." The ironic part is that they now become the people that are making distinctions based on race. They are now the people basing how they interact with a person on how they look.
They are now the racist.
=)
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lol well said SaNteria, i know people like that who overcompensate and are "over kind" to minorities.
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Braavos36390 Posts
um, my post had a conditional, hence the a) and b), so i don't see how taking part of it out of context makes me a racist
secondly, the fact that there are more black people in prisons is a lot more complicated than them simply being predisposed to do more crimes. the notion that "black people commit more crimes and are more criminal thats just a fact" is prejudiced. there are a number of other factors like history and institutions installed by the white majority in our society that contribute to your "fact"
the truth is many white people fail to take into consideration just how much they contribute to this system that perpetually keeps minorities down. they'd rather believe that it's faults WITHIN the black individual and black race rather than factors many black people have no control over at all. the system will never change unless the ruling majority realizes and takes the initiative. i'm not saying there's no personal responsibility, i'm just sayin it's a lot more complex than your "more black people in jail!!" makes it out to be.
i'd say you're being way too judgmental about my character, you're basically labeling me a racist. if you read my posts around the forum on the topic, you'll see just how far off that is. i never said anything about how i treat black people or whether i have black friends.
plus, he basically confirmed the suspicions in his next post:
On July 14 2005 10:30 tranCe[RaGe] wrote:
Look at miniority crime ratio to white... and we will talk again... its a fact miniorities in this country cause more crime sorry im not racist just a fact. thanks
he's basically saying they cause more crime because they are black. there's no other way around it, he's point at them. so that makes your whole argument void.
so i'm sorry i "pissed you off" because you made some pretty ignorant assumptions about me and you have a pretty limited idea of how the world works
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Braavos36390 Posts
i'll just list a few examples right now before you inevitably ask me for them
- crack cocaine carries higher penalties than pure powder cocaine. there is no reason for this, other than the fact that rich white people use the latter while poor minorities the former?
- the legacy system in universities, which allow offspring of alumni basically easy admission (a system that is hard to break into by minorities)
- housing, redistricting, and educational funding, etc
people invariably point to shit like "oh look at the prisons, there are so many black people!"
really, what have you read and studied on the subject of race relations to make such a great opinion like
"As a side note, those who are quick to label are usually the most racist of all. I'll call someone a dirty Mexican and have no problem with it because it means about as much to me as calling him a dirty Lakers fan. It's completely immaterial."
it's not completely immaterial because race is a historically loaded thing. it's not simply another adjective, it's a description that carries with it the weight of many years of oppression and suffering. only recently have there been slight progress really, think about it: 50 years ago we were still having lynchings and people getting away with murder. i think our society is a long way from being completely okay with "dirty Mexican" being the same as "dirty lakers fan".
you are quite uninformed and i don't fault you for that, but accusing others while having no well-thought out beliefs is just stupid. i can respect people like Excal and IronMentality who have a very concrete social beliefs but you, you're just ignorant but think you know it all, just like that smug little "=)" at the end of your post suggests
i think you should go read some books on the subject before you open your mouth, let alone accuse others of being racist, again.
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Norway28747 Posts
On July 14 2005 10:12 iamke55 wrote:
If Drone knows 3 people who have gotten raped in his country, I don't even want to think about how often it happens here in America.
not to mention that I've known at most 10 girls well enough for them to admit that to me. so 30%+ of my best female friends have been raped
not very cool
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On July 14 2005 11:22 SaNteria wrote:You know what, I'm going to go ahead and double post because this: Show nested quote +the a) is quite racist and if that was his intention the word "black" probably shouldn't have been included in his post, but if b) was his intention, it's still slightly bigoted but "black man" won't get you banned but "no joke, grandma raped buy man with large penis" will, and his intent was to show just how severe the event was is the kind of shit that really pisses me off. Why can no comment on race ever be dropped without being considered "racist"? If I describe a person as "Chinese, wearing a blue shirt." people will say "oh, you identified him based on race, you dirty racist. No, I simply picked his most distinguishing feature and related it to him. If someone is 8 feet tall, I'll mention "the really tall guy," cause that is how you'll notice him. If someone is Chinese, it just so happens that his most distinguishing physical feature just might be that he "looks Chinese." It is not racist to say a black man raped somebody. It is racist to say that he raped her because he's black. This is no different than saying that the majority of people in federal prisons are black. This isn't a racist statement, it's a fact. It's like saying that the majority of BW gamers are male. It's a statement of a fact based on a majority. Racism would be saying that these people are in prison because they are black. Over-sensitive people who are quick to label an argument or a person as racist destroy debate. If a person says to you that over-immigration is hurting the economy, you'll call him a racist. This in fact allows you to sidestep his point and brush him off, no matter how valid his argument may be. As a side note, those who are quick to label are usually the most racist of all. I'll call someone a dirty Mexican and have no problem with it because it means about as much to me as calling him a dirty Lakers fan. It's completely immaterial. Yet these other chumps will consciously treat others differently because of race. They'll make a point to be extra nice around black people, or minorities. Why do they do this? Because, they so badly want to distance themselves from those they see as racist that they overcompensate. It's like holding up a sign that says "Hey, look at me... I'm NOT racist, I PROMISE." The ironic part is that they now become the people that are making distinctions based on race. They are now the people basing how they interact with a person on how they look. They are now the racist. =)
Your an idiot, your post would make alot of sense.. if someone actually overreacted and sucked up to minorties, but that didn't happen. Instead he questioned why the man the other dude used in his joke was black, and the dude gave him such a fucking racist reply that his initial assumption of him being racist was probably dead on -_-, I can't believe that asshole said he used a black guy in his example because the ratio of black to white crime is higher??? that makes no fucking sense.. it's like a pitiful excuse to not look like a racist.. be serious with that dumb shit.. not all black men are rapists or murderers as not all white ones are.. so don't try to throw extra dirt on them faggot
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Braavos36390 Posts
On July 14 2005 11:22 SaNteria wrote:
Over-sensitive people who are quick to label an argument or a person as racist destroy debate. If a person says to you that over-immigration is hurting the economy, you'll call him a racist. This in fact allows you to sidestep his point and brush him off, no matter how valid his argument may be.
http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net/c.cgi?u=walmart
it's not the immigrants as your "subtly racist" example implies, but rather the companies run by big rich white businessmen
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Blech, I was really hoping I wouldn't have to revisit this thread and make another response. But I guess we can't always get what we want =(
First off:
um, my post had a conditional, hence the a) and b), so i don't see how taking part of it out of context makes me a racist
and
your post would make alot of sense.. if someone actually overreacted and sucked up to minorties, but that didn't happen
My post was not a direct responce to Hot's words. His words simply triggered a generic rant since I wasn't too thrilled that a topic about rape instantly became about race because someone mentioned a "black man." This topic should still be about the fact that a girl was raped and the events surrounding that. I regret my part in causing it to meander.
i think our society is a long way from being completely okay with "dirty Mexican" being the same as "dirty lakers fan".
Yah, for the most part. If a Mexican was being an asshole, I'd call him an asshole. But the Asian or white friend of mine I'd say this to is Ok with it. So am I. In our world of racial comments carrying no weight, it IS immaterial. This doesn't mean I'd say it on Conan Obrien, cause obviously someone would take offence. My entire point in that analogy was that calling someone black means about as much to me as saying someone has a big nose. That's me, not society.
Your an idiot
And you're an idiotist. Future generations will be embarassed about how bluntly you judged me based on something superficial like my intelligence. WE BOTH BLEED THE SAME COLOR!!!
http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net/c.cgi?u=walmart
it's not the immigrants as your "subtly racist" example implies, but rather the companies run by big rich white businessmen
Please don't quote Maddox to make a point. My example was just that, an example. I was talking about a hypothetical argument and some point it might hypothetically have. I didn't say it was my argument, and I sure as hell didn't say I supported it (I don't).
You know, reading something fully before responding to it is something we can all embrace, regardless of race or creed.
secondly, the fact that there are more black people in prisons is a lot more complicated than them simply being predisposed to do more crimes. the notion that "black people commit more crimes and are more criminal thats just a fact" is prejudiced.
Of course. The why is always much more complicated than the what. But the what is the only part I was stating as fact. FACT: Federal pens are highly populated by African Americans. I feel like I should be repeating this next part in all-caps or in a huge font or something because it is my entire point. Saying that fact is NOT racist. It becomes racist when one implies that they are locked up because they are black.
The question as to why there are so many blacks in prison is obviously more complicated. For the above fact to be true, it doesn't need to disregard the idea that more blacks are porn into poverty, which increases their chances of falling into a life of crime, that we as a society don't do enough of a job opening other opportunities to minorites... etc, etc. Hell, having a higher prison population doesn't even mean they committ more crimes. The fact they get locked up could once again be influenced by the way we behave as an entire society, again not placing blame on the imprisoned, themselves. All of this, while true, has nothing to do with disputing the above FACT.
i'd say you're being way too judgmental about my character, you're basically labeling me a racist. if you read my posts around the forum on the topic, you'll see just how far off that is
I'm sure I already answered this when I mentioned my "generic rant." I should have done a better job of differentiating it from the meaningless catalyst that caused me to write it.
Either way, you seem upset that I presumed to know so much about you despite not knowing you at all yet:
you're just ignorant but think you know it all, just like that smug little "=)" at the end of your post suggests
i think you should go read some books on the subject before you open your mouth, let alone accuse others of being racist, again.
You assume to know so much about me.
For all you know I *am* a minority. You have to admit that knowing I was black or something like that would have caused your above posts to be completely different.
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On July 14 2005 11:38 Hot_Bid wrote:
i'll just list a few examples right now before you inevitably ask me for them
- crack cocaine carries higher penalties than pure powder cocaine. there is no reason for this, other than the fact that rich white people use the latter while poor minorities the former?
- the legacy system in universities, which allow offspring of alumni basically easy admission (a system that is hard to break into by minorities)
- housing, redistricting, and educational funding, etc
people invariably point to shit like "oh look at the prisons, there are so many black people!"
really, what have you read and studied on the subject of race relations to make such a great opinion like
"As a side note, those who are quick to label are usually the most racist of all. I'll call someone a dirty Mexican and have no problem with it because it means about as much to me as calling him a dirty Lakers fan. It's completely immaterial."
it's not completely immaterial because race is a historically loaded thing. it's not simply another adjective, it's a description that carries with it the weight of many years of oppression and suffering. only recently have there been slight progress really, think about it: 50 years ago we were still having lynchings and people getting away with murder. i think our society is a long way from being completely okay with "dirty Mexican" being the same as "dirty lakers fan".
you are quite uninformed and i don't fault you for that, but accusing others while having no well-thought out beliefs is just stupid. i can respect people like Excal and IronMentality who have a very concrete social beliefs but you, you're just ignorant but think you know it all, just like that smug little "=)" at the end of your post suggests
i think you should go read some books on the subject before you open your mouth, let alone accuse others of being racist, again.
on the contrary, i far more lean towards his views than yours. Being that i am a minority, and the most hated minority in the world, i feel that my views should hardly come off as 'ignorant'. And nor should his.
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I should also point out that in my arguments I don't define racist as having to be a negative reaction based on race, but rather someone who allows their behavior in any way to be influenced for no reason at all based only on a person's race.
The fact is that if you are altering the way you act because of a person's race, alone, then race is something you are consciously thinking about. To be completely free of racially based actions, you'd have to be just as willing to call a black asshole a jerk, as to call a white asshole a jerk =p
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Black asshole just sounds so much meaner though.
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On July 14 2005 10:13 Teroru wrote:Show nested quote +On July 14 2005 08:52 TrainingMacro wrote:On July 14 2005 00:57 Manifesto7 wrote:
... There's multiple ways of dealing with a story such as rape. One is taking it serious and dieing of an heart attack and the other is joking about it a bit and laughing yourself to death. I find neither truely disrespectfull and note that noone really is making jokes about lightman himself or his girlfriend. i hope your mother gets hit by a bus.
What does my mom have to do with this?
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Braavos36390 Posts
On July 14 2005 12:56 SaNteria wrote:
I should also point out that in my arguments I don't define racist as having to be a negative reaction based on race, but rather someone who allows their behavior in any way to be influenced for no reason at all based only on a person's race.
The fact is that if you are altering the way you act because of a person's race, alone, then race is something you are consciously thinking about. To be completely free of racially based actions, you'd have to be just as willing to call a black asshole a jerk, as to call a white asshole a jerk =p
my response to you was a little heated because it seemed that by quoting my post you were directly making a personal attack, and thus i did so as well, in response. if you didn't intend it towards me, then i would've done a better job of addressing your points only; i'm sorry about my own assumptions about you, but again they were in anger.
anyway, your view of a "racist" is a little unrealistic. in theory, it'd be great if everyone could ignore race completely and act as if everyone was the same color. however, what usually ends up happening is a lot of supressed racism, ie people dancing around issues and being extra nice etc (what you also disagree with). all this leads to latent hatred that will come out eventually. in my opinion, racial awareness, acknowledgment and discussion is something that is a lot better than simply ignoring it, because ignoring does not equal making it go away.
as for your being a minority, so am i. it doesn't change my view that your initial post was misguided. the statement of "more black people in jail, thats a fact" is a loaded one. taken literally, it's true, of course. but you and i both know that it's almost never interpreted or meant that way, and those implications are what i'm taking issue with. simply being a minority does not mean you have a free pass to say whatever you want. if anything, you should be even more aware than others.
as for your example of white or black person being a jerk, i don't really see how that applies, i didn't say anything to suggest that i wouldn't call someone a jerk because of their race?
edit: also, sorry everyone for diverting this off topic, my fault... san, if you want to continue discussion PM me
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to everybody: Way to turn this into a debate on racism.
edit:: i realized half what i said was decently hypocritical of myself, so ill just leave it at-everybody shut the fuck up and stop ruining this poor guy's thread.
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Jesus is the answer. You are doing the right thing by supporting her going to church.
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I was under the impression that hiv can only be detected 3 months after you are infected, after your body has begun antybody production.
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On July 14 2005 13:55 icabot wrote:
Jesus is the answer. You are doing the right thing by supporting her going to church.
I don't think believing into something silly thought up god humbug and child molesting priests are going to help though.
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Osaka27166 Posts
On July 14 2005 08:52 TrainingMacro wrote:There's multiple ways of dealing with a story such as rape. One is taking it serious and dieing of an heart attack and the other is joking about it a bit and laughing yourself to death. I find neither truely disrespectfull and note that noone really is making jokes about lightman himself or his girlfriend.
I agree that people affected by something such as this will react in different ways. However, the sense of the posts in this thread are not those of people "dealing" with a situation. These people don't have an emotional investment in the situation and I don't think that it is apporpriate to make those comments towards someone who is feeling real pain. Lightman seems to be pretty level headed, but someone else might react very differently to it. (As I would have had it been my story)
About the problem in Japan, it is an extension of a culture which has always valued the young and nubile. My fiance never spoke out against this guy because it happened when she was quite a bit younger. Should it happen to her now I think she would bite the guy's nose off and tie his fingers into knots. This may be a result of her having lived in a different country for almost 5 years, but she is surely not a woman to be triffled with.
/me unknots my fingers.
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EPT
