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While I understand that there's a need to discuss this matter, this thread has way too many trash posts in it. Please think carefully about what you want to say. Ad hominem attacks on Swedish people in general, calling you fellow Starcraft fans idiots etc etc will be dealt with with harsher punishment from here on out. Keep it civil people.
Page 230: Here's some more stuff that'll get you banned!
- Conspiracy theory mongering about MLG and GOM
- Comparing people to Hitler
- Posting useless one liners of arguments that have already been repeated ad nauseum. |
On December 15 2011 01:42 poorcloud wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 01:39 Snijjer wrote:
It's sad that some people would be fine with him doing a 4-gate with no chance in winning but feel they have been gravely disrespected because he probe rushed. You are speaking with hindsight now that you know he was going to give it up anyways. If he just did a 4 gate and lost, no one would have thought he was throwing it away. Some may have even pitied him due to frustration. Others would have applauded him for playing his best in the last game. If he just did a 4 gate, and then said he in an interview he didn't bother at all and he just wanted to finish it quickly, i assure you many people would be offended as well.
Two completely different scenarios. Showing a poor game vs. no showing ANY game are fundamentally different things. Its the difference between a football/baseball team not playing its starters vs. a football/baseball team not even trying to stop the other team from scoring. The former is acceptable if disappointing from a fan's perspective. The latter is not.
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On December 15 2011 01:47 ShootingStars wrote:
I don't care if Naniwa offended those Koreans. He is TRUE TO HIMSELF and is honest to both PUBLIC and private. Nestea however... >_>
I'd rather watch an honest player than a player who is all nice and good manner because hes FORCING himself to.
Wait, what about Nestea?
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On December 15 2011 01:47 ShootingStars wrote:
I don't care if Naniwa offended those Koreans. He is TRUE TO HIMSELF and is honest to both PUBLIC and private. Nestea however... >_>
I'd rather watch an honest player than a player who is all nice and good manner because hes FORCING himself to.
see how far that gets you in the world buddy. Acting professional sometimes means doing something you don't want to do.
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ok ppl is this how a progamer should look during a televised match?
professionalism??
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/hh91J.png) ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/ispUu.png)
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On December 15 2011 01:47 ShootingStars wrote:
I don't care if Naniwa offended those Koreans. He is TRUE TO HIMSELF and is honest to both PUBLIC and private. Nestea however... >_>
I'd rather watch an honest player than a player who is all nice and good manner because hes FORCING himself to.
Hitler was true to himself.
User was temp banned for this post.
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United States23455 Posts
"OH GOD WHY IS GOM SO RACIST? THEY HATE FOREIGNERS. WHY ARE THEY HOLDING THE WHITE GUYS DOWN?"
Why are people still saying this? GOM bends backwards to give foreigners GSL spots. Now they're GIVING AWAY Code S spots EVERY SINGLE GSL to two foreigners who don't have to qualify or even play freaking Up-and-Down matches. They've been trying to give away Code A spots so that a foreigner could make Code S, but only Huk out of 10+ foreigners even got to the Up-and-Down matches to make Code S.
Mr. Chae may dislike Naniwa and what he did, but he is trying to get more foreigners to watch by gifting invites to foreigners. Even when the past six months have shown us that the foreigners invited through Code A aren't up to snuff.
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There's been several instances of unprofessionalism during GSL GOM broadcasts has there not? Zenios ceremony where he "bitch slapped" idra? Idras bm in general? Honestly I think Idra is way more bad mannered then Naniwa, and Idra has just gg'd in plenty of situations, but on the same coin, MC had twittered something along the lines of "Naniwa should think of how it felt if I went 3-0 in my bracket and just gg'd him because there "It was a meaningless game" " I like Morrows idea of allowing walk overs, but at the same time, You cannot forget that its your JOB to play this game, your gonna have to do some things you dont want do in any field, even if it is professional gaming. Do I agree with Naniwas behavior? absolutely not. Do I think the shitstorm caused of it is neccessary? Absolutely not.
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The number of people on here who think it's OK to throw a game, unless it's specifically stated in tournament rules that you shouldn't, really says something about the mindset of SC2 audience... Deliberately losing games is not an acceptable practice in any sport. And NO, teams fielding their B players is NOT the same thing.. They don't do it to lose, they do it to evaluate those players and give them more experience, so that they know who they can use when they need to, they still play to win..
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On December 15 2011 01:42 Avril_Lavigne wrote:
Jokes on him, guess Nestea gets the last laugh. Don't know what the big deal is, NaNiWa intentionally did what he did to make a mockery of GOM tv judging by the unprofessional posture and his bored face. not only did he waste his time but the time of spectators who were expecting to see Code S level play, wasting the time of the commentators who go out of their way to do their job who dress in suits as professional as possible. Not some bull shit rebellious crap pulled by an angsty little girl. He's probably given a totally bad name to the Swedish people you all should be angered. Those in other countries including Koreans may even believe that perhaps, Sweden accepts this kind of behavior in their country? Try to see it as a bigger picture, not just amongst the minority of sc2 gamers. For those who think that what naniwa did is acceptable then you need to face the facts that reality is different from ideal. You can say he technically didn't break "any rules" but seriously, the real world doesn't always work like that. Try the NFL and NBA, lets put a team in there who doesn't want to face the other team, have them dance around the entire game to show their rebelliousness, they aren't breaking any rules, or perhaps they are? The bigger picture is is that it's completely disrespectful to the audience and the hosts of the tournament, it's wasting peoples money, the audience and the employees who help set this shit up. Seriously, use your god damn brain, you're dealing with an asian culture who in their perspective find this very offensive.
Oh wake up. DO YOU HONESTLY think he intentionelly dissed GOM? He knew he wasn´t gonna play his best since he was tilted and the match meant NOTHING to him. If they hyped up the rivalry and had that as an argument for stepping up and play seriously... Then of course he wants REAL games to count towards their scores. There are so many reasons for a very proud and self critical guy like Naniwa to not want to play that game given past history with Nestea on top of just have maybe had the most disapointing pair of matches in his career. If you don´t get that then you probably haven´t excelled in anything or taken pride in anything even compared to what Naniwa feels for SC2.
Swedes doesnt like hypocrites and they don´t like or care for games that aren´t serious for the most part(judging for what I have seen). Would you want an "el classico" friendly be counted towards any real track record for the teams if they didn´t dared to risk injury for their A squad and thus fielded their B squad? No of course not.
You swedes should be proud that you have a player that cares so much for SC2 that he gets absolutely crushed when he thinks he let down himself and the foreign community.
And you sir are american. I would like to see you write this sh.it if idra did it who is an absolute baller also.
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On December 15 2011 01:42 MorroW wrote:
but dont you guys agree in general making a rule where if a game doesnt matter, player should be allowed to request for walkover? or do you prefer them to be forced to play a game that doesnt matter? because this to me is far more important discussion than whatever else happened here
a rule like this to me, makes perfect sense
In a huge tournament with simultaneous games going on such as MLG, I believe walk overs can be seen as acceptable and necessary albeit unpleasant occurrences.
But in a small tournament that has been assembled from invites, with the express intention to show great games between champion players, I think that walkovers might be a bit of an issue.
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On December 15 2011 01:48 Govou wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 01:46 tlin wrote:
I'll be eagerly awaiting NesTea's GSL ban for fucking around in games against HuK.
Because it's not like GOM could ever hold Koreans to dfifferent standards than they do Foreigners, right? if Naniwa did put down as much as nestea on that game, he wouldnt have been kicked out of code S think before you post.
Yeah, let's punish players who don't give it 100% percent all the time.
That sounds so incredibly stupid.
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I like how Naniwa gets punished because the tournament has a terrible format.
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On December 15 2011 01:44 MLG_Adam wrote:
Slasher works for MLG in our video department. He is NOT a representative of the League. Any opinion or discussion from Slasher is solely opinion based.
Can you tell us if Naniwa EARNED his code S spot, or if he got invited? This is imo an important point
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On December 15 2011 01:37 zala2023 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 01:34 dawnstone wrote:On December 15 2011 01:29 BlitzerSC wrote:On December 15 2011 01:22 MorroW wrote:On December 15 2011 01:14 Velr wrote:On December 15 2011 01:11 HappyChris wrote:On December 15 2011 01:09 MorroW wrote:On December 15 2011 01:04 HolydaKing wrote:On December 15 2011 01:00 MorroW wrote:
why cant just gsl apologize and be the bigger man here and admit their faults for even having the game played rather than punishing naniwa to play a game that didnt matter
if a game doesnt matter, ask the players if they want or dont want to play the game, if not, then give w.o
its retarded and naniwa is the one taking the blow here for something that wasnt his fault so it would have gone in your mind to play like naniwa? in one of the most prestigious tournaments? just look like how extremely bored he looks. so disrespectful, while he could have gained so much respect. i suppose you have seen the video or even the live game, but go here if you haven't www.fomos.kr/gnuboard4/bbs/board.php?bo_table=talk_gossip&wr_id=394130 you dont ban a player for not having his hands on his keyboard while playing, if that was the case sjow wouldnt be a progamer anymore (:D) also you dont ban someone for looking bored this is a proffecional sports and players play by the rules of the tournament. naniwa did not break any rules. what is there left to say? Hahaha Morrow thats just so mean to sjow. lol Ahm.. If Naniwa would just have done nothing at all, this would also not be ban worthy? Because.. He is in the game, he just did do nothing... Because well... He was 100% throwing that game on behalf, i don't care how it looked.. No one should care how it looked. He did it, he got what you should get for stuff like this. we are progamers, not actors. if you want to watch acting go pay for a movie instead of a sc2 tournament they tournament admins again, must allow players to give walkover in a match that doesnt matter. its the format and the rules that allow stuff like this to happen. situations where players dont want to win, always gets messy. so im not saying what naniwa did was ethical or not, that doesnt matter to me. what matters to me is that gsl fucks up, points the finger at naniwa but not only that, punishes him for not acting a game if i was in naniwas position id request for a walkover, if not id drink 10 cups of coffee and get some food poisioning or some shit. because a player never wants to act serious in a game. because if he loses people think he played bad and serious, and if he wins, people know his build order. its a lose lose situation for a player to get into a situation where he has to play a televised game that doesnt matter You should probably watch some real sports, especially soccer. Do you see players of a team that got eliminated in the champions league that have to play the last match just sits on the field ?? No, they try to play as better as they can even if they are playing against Barcelona/Milan/Inter ecc. No they play with their B-team instead....... Pointless point you are trying to make. Since the players have something to gain from these games they can improve their chances for a spot in the staring line up for the next game, and some of them might even have salaries depending on how many games they play. So dont make retarded arguments please since Naniwa had nothing to gain from that game. sure naniwa had nothing to gain, but what about the people who paid to see the games? gomtv is not going to let naniwa shit on the people who paid to be entertained by their tickets lol
does naniwa get paid for exciting moves and nice plays? Does he get paid for being your dancing monkey? No, he gets paid if he wins and for representing his team/sponsors. If Nani looses sponsorship-contracts by doing sth. like this, I can understand it, but if you run a tournament with a bad format and expect a player to reveal strategies, endure stress and basically work for your entertainment without the possibility to gain any money from it, just because you are expecting it, you're not running a tournament, but variety-show and they should payN ani for it if they want him to entertain them.
How can ppl not get this: Progamers PLAY FOR MONEY! If you are entertained by them, good, but you cannot blame them for not entertaining you and not to work for free AND even reveal strategies/playstyles on live TV.
I mean, WTF: In recent history, Millenium has conceded 2 Clanwars in advance without even playing it out, so they could've even won those clanwars, but they didn't even try. What did IPL do? They apologized to the viewers and talked about it without going totally apeshit-crazy and Millenium got called out for it. Very simple and easy.
And to the ppl who payd for it: You didn't see it written somewhere that there was a minimum of games you'd be able to see and that they will at least be 5 minutes long and you can get your money back if you are not entertained, so don't act like little children and accept the fact that stuff like this happens.
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On December 15 2011 01:47 Condor Hero wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 01:42 LeopoldStotch wrote:On December 15 2011 01:40 Lonyo wrote:On December 15 2011 01:38 zala2023 wrote:On December 15 2011 01:37 Lonyo wrote:Poll: Should Idra be banned from MOST competitions?I think neither deserves to be punished (60) 51% I think only Naniwa deserves to be punished (31) 26% I think Naniwa and Idra should be punished (15) 13% I think only Idra deserves to be punished (12) 10% 118 total votes Your vote: Should Idra be banned from MOST competitions? (Vote): I think Naniwa and Idra should be punished
(Vote): I think only Naniwa deserves to be punished
(Vote): I think only Idra deserves to be punished
(Vote): I think neither deserves to be punished
Given that Idra has been shown to be BM in many competitions (MLG, NASL etc), and has shown abusive and unprofessional behaviour at various points in his career, should he also be punished? Is it right to punish Naniwa for what he did simply because it's in Korea, or should Idra also be punished by various leagues (per league) for his actions in each league? You can agree with either point of view, neither, or both. used by ALL competitions, both Korean and foreigner. why does this have to do the idra? idra tries his best and starts bming and complaining about protoss imba after he loses naniwa derped in a major gsl game and got called out for that pretty different bro BM is BM. Idra is abusive towards opponents and often doesn't GG. How is that better than Naniwa throwing a game by not bothering to play? The rule that has been cited relates to abusive behaviour, Idra has shown examples of that, so he';s an obvious candidate to pick. It's unprofessional behaviour in both instances, you can't really dispute that... Either unprofessional behaviour should always be punished, or it shouldn't. You can't say Idra hasn't gone over the line at the very least due to frequency... once is excusable, but he does it all the time in "professional" situations. Idra has GG'd every tournament that has required him to do so. GSL was one of them. Not true, he told Mana to fuck himself after losing IPL2.
Are you sure IPL requires you to GG after a game? Idra may be a dick, but he's not stupid.
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On December 15 2011 01:47 zeru wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 01:45 lightsentry wrote:On December 15 2011 01:41 zeru wrote:On December 15 2011 01:41 LeopoldStotch wrote:On December 15 2011 01:33 zeru wrote:On December 15 2011 01:31 iky43210 wrote:On December 15 2011 01:30 MorroW wrote:On December 15 2011 01:28 iky43210 wrote:On December 15 2011 01:25 MorroW wrote:On December 15 2011 01:23 iky43210 wrote:
[quote]
and if you don't agree with GOM rule, you can not participate, or face the consequences thinking and acting you are bigger than the organizer
there is no such thing as match doesn't matter in GSL. every match matters to them, despite how you feel otherwise but to my understanding he didnt break any rule that was existing at the moment? the OP talks about abuse but that is a very veig rule that can be very missinturpirated lol again, how is match making not breaking any rules? match making is only relevant if the game has any impact what so ever in the actual tournament. this is not match making match making is match making. Just because the game isn't important doesn't mean its not match making. so cella should be banned for doing a bunch of silly shit on ladder which have 0% win chance for match making even though it doesnt matter at all? What does ladder have to do with GSL tournaments? ask gom when they banned choya after he rock paper scissored for ladder points? the thing about that is that ladder points were(are?) part of gomtv's system for getting into code b (i remember watching project a and seeing that yellow had to get 500+ points in master's or something to register for code b). As for cella doing stupid shit that's his business whereas choya just wanted to mass up points really quickly without playing i believe. its still "not caring about winning in games that dont matter" - aka match making according to that guy i quoted.
who says match fixingis ok on ladder? it isn't, but it isn't up to GSL to decide the punishment. Choya was a different scenario because it was during a time when ladder points actually matters in GSL.
match fixing on tourney is always ban worthy, and it is up to individual tourneys to establish their standards and punishments
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This is bullshit by both MLG and GOM. There were clearly tweets congratulating Naniwa on obtaining Code S from Providence after he reached the final. Even if they didnt state in an announcement if Mr.Chae or the official MLG twitter proclaims something of this magnitude it should be treated equally as an official announcement.
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On December 15 2011 01:49 BLinD-RawR wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 01:48 tree.hugger wrote:On December 15 2011 01:42 MorroW wrote:
but dont you guys agree in general making a rule where if a game doesnt matter, player should be allowed to request for walkover? or do you prefer them to be forced to play a game that doesnt matter? because this to me is far more important discussion than whatever else happened here
a rule like this to me, makes perfect sense It's a fine rule to think about, but for a tournament like Blizzard Cup, where you've invited ten of the top players in the world, you have a strong interest in every game being played, because every game is a marquee match-up. So I doubt GOM would've done anything different. I don't think you're right about the tournament format being the bigger issue; plenty of tournaments have group stages, and group stages almost always produce some meaningless games, but they get played out anyway because that's what professionals do. I think the reason this has blown up is because NesTea, and I think the majority of players would have no problems playing out that game, but NaNiwa did have a problem with it, and that's unacceptable and unprofessional to most people. finally! I've been saying the same thing too!
yeah, totally agree... why'd they want less games showed at such important event. great post tree.hugger
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On December 15 2011 01:37 zala2023 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 01:34 dawnstone wrote:On December 15 2011 01:29 BlitzerSC wrote:On December 15 2011 01:22 MorroW wrote:On December 15 2011 01:14 Velr wrote:On December 15 2011 01:11 HappyChris wrote:On December 15 2011 01:09 MorroW wrote:On December 15 2011 01:04 HolydaKing wrote:On December 15 2011 01:00 MorroW wrote:
why cant just gsl apologize and be the bigger man here and admit their faults for even having the game played rather than punishing naniwa to play a game that didnt matter
if a game doesnt matter, ask the players if they want or dont want to play the game, if not, then give w.o
its retarded and naniwa is the one taking the blow here for something that wasnt his fault so it would have gone in your mind to play like naniwa? in one of the most prestigious tournaments? just look like how extremely bored he looks. so disrespectful, while he could have gained so much respect. i suppose you have seen the video or even the live game, but go here if you haven't www.fomos.kr/gnuboard4/bbs/board.php?bo_table=talk_gossip&wr_id=394130 you dont ban a player for not having his hands on his keyboard while playing, if that was the case sjow wouldnt be a progamer anymore (:D) also you dont ban someone for looking bored this is a proffecional sports and players play by the rules of the tournament. naniwa did not break any rules. what is there left to say? Hahaha Morrow thats just so mean to sjow. lol Ahm.. If Naniwa would just have done nothing at all, this would also not be ban worthy? Because.. He is in the game, he just did do nothing... Because well... He was 100% throwing that game on behalf, i don't care how it looked.. No one should care how it looked. He did it, he got what you should get for stuff like this. we are progamers, not actors. if you want to watch acting go pay for a movie instead of a sc2 tournament they tournament admins again, must allow players to give walkover in a match that doesnt matter. its the format and the rules that allow stuff like this to happen. situations where players dont want to win, always gets messy. so im not saying what naniwa did was ethical or not, that doesnt matter to me. what matters to me is that gsl fucks up, points the finger at naniwa but not only that, punishes him for not acting a game if i was in naniwas position id request for a walkover, if not id drink 10 cups of coffee and get some food poisioning or some shit. because a player never wants to act serious in a game. because if he loses people think he played bad and serious, and if he wins, people know his build order. its a lose lose situation for a player to get into a situation where he has to play a televised game that doesnt matter You should probably watch some real sports, especially soccer. Do you see players of a team that got eliminated in the champions league that have to play the last match just sits on the field ?? No, they try to play as better as they can even if they are playing against Barcelona/Milan/Inter ecc. No they play with their B-team instead....... Pointless point you are trying to make. Since the players have something to gain from these games they can improve their chances for a spot in the staring line up for the next game, and some of them might even have salaries depending on how many games they play. So dont make retarded arguments please since Naniwa had nothing to gain from that game. sure naniwa had nothing to gain, but what about the people who paid to see the games? gomtv is not going to let naniwa shit on the people who paid to be entertained by their tickets lol
You would not get a real game either way, you would only watch a lie - a show for the sake of the show, nothing else.
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EPT
