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While I understand that there's a need to discuss this matter, this thread has way too many trash posts in it. Please think carefully about what you want to say. Ad hominem attacks on Swedish people in general, calling you fellow Starcraft fans idiots etc etc will be dealt with with harsher punishment from here on out. Keep it civil people.
Page 230: Here's some more stuff that'll get you banned!
- Conspiracy theory mongering about MLG and GOM
- Comparing people to Hitler
- Posting useless one liners of arguments that have already been repeated ad nauseum. |
On December 15 2011 01:48 tree.hugger wrote:
I don't think you're right about the tournament format being the bigger issue; plenty of tournaments have group stages, and group stages almost always produce some meaningless games, but they get played out anyway because that's what professionals do. I think the reason this has blown up is because NesTea, and I think the majority of players would have no problems playing out that game, but NaNiwa did have a problem with it, and that's unacceptable and unprofessional to most people.
This makes sense, but maybe tournament organizers should be more up-front about what they expect from the players. And certainly tone down their reactions if there's a misunderstanding.
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On December 15 2011 01:42 Avril_Lavigne wrote:
Jokes on him, guess Nestea gets the last laugh. Don't know what the big deal is, NaNiWa intentionally did what he did to make a mockery of GOM tv judging by the unprofessional posture and his bored face. not only did he waste his time but the time of spectators who were expecting to see Code S level play, wasting the time of the commentators who go out of their way to do their job who dress in suits as professional as possible. Not some bull shit rebellious crap pulled by an angsty little girl. He's probably given a totally bad name to the Swedish people you all should be angered. Those in other countries including Koreans may even believe that perhaps, Sweden accepts this kind of behavior in their country? Try to see it as a bigger picture, not just amongst the minority of sc2 gamers. For those who think that what naniwa did is acceptable then you need to face the facts that reality is different from ideal. You can say he technically didn't break "any rules" but seriously, the real world doesn't always work like that. Try the NFL and NBA, lets put a team in there who doesn't want to face the other team, have them dance around the entire game to show their rebelliousness, they aren't breaking any rules, or perhaps they are? The bigger picture is is that it's completely disrespectful to the audience and the hosts of the tournament, it's wasting peoples money, the audience and the employees who help set this shit up. Seriously, use your god damn brain, you're dealing with an asian culture who in their perspective find this very offensive.
Well said sir !
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On December 15 2011 01:51 Warent wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 01:37 zala2023 wrote:On December 15 2011 01:34 dawnstone wrote:On December 15 2011 01:29 BlitzerSC wrote:On December 15 2011 01:22 MorroW wrote:On December 15 2011 01:14 Velr wrote:On December 15 2011 01:11 HappyChris wrote:On December 15 2011 01:09 MorroW wrote:On December 15 2011 01:04 HolydaKing wrote:On December 15 2011 01:00 MorroW wrote:
why cant just gsl apologize and be the bigger man here and admit their faults for even having the game played rather than punishing naniwa to play a game that didnt matter
if a game doesnt matter, ask the players if they want or dont want to play the game, if not, then give w.o
its retarded and naniwa is the one taking the blow here for something that wasnt his fault so it would have gone in your mind to play like naniwa? in one of the most prestigious tournaments? just look like how extremely bored he looks. so disrespectful, while he could have gained so much respect. i suppose you have seen the video or even the live game, but go here if you haven't www.fomos.kr/gnuboard4/bbs/board.php?bo_table=talk_gossip&wr_id=394130 you dont ban a player for not having his hands on his keyboard while playing, if that was the case sjow wouldnt be a progamer anymore (:D) also you dont ban someone for looking bored this is a proffecional sports and players play by the rules of the tournament. naniwa did not break any rules. what is there left to say? Hahaha Morrow thats just so mean to sjow. lol Ahm.. If Naniwa would just have done nothing at all, this would also not be ban worthy? Because.. He is in the game, he just did do nothing... Because well... He was 100% throwing that game on behalf, i don't care how it looked.. No one should care how it looked. He did it, he got what you should get for stuff like this. we are progamers, not actors. if you want to watch acting go pay for a movie instead of a sc2 tournament they tournament admins again, must allow players to give walkover in a match that doesnt matter. its the format and the rules that allow stuff like this to happen. situations where players dont want to win, always gets messy. so im not saying what naniwa did was ethical or not, that doesnt matter to me. what matters to me is that gsl fucks up, points the finger at naniwa but not only that, punishes him for not acting a game if i was in naniwas position id request for a walkover, if not id drink 10 cups of coffee and get some food poisioning or some shit. because a player never wants to act serious in a game. because if he loses people think he played bad and serious, and if he wins, people know his build order. its a lose lose situation for a player to get into a situation where he has to play a televised game that doesnt matter You should probably watch some real sports, especially soccer. Do you see players of a team that got eliminated in the champions league that have to play the last match just sits on the field ?? No, they try to play as better as they can even if they are playing against Barcelona/Milan/Inter ecc. No they play with their B-team instead....... Pointless point you are trying to make. Since the players have something to gain from these games they can improve their chances for a spot in the staring line up for the next game, and some of them might even have salaries depending on how many games they play. So dont make retarded arguments please since Naniwa had nothing to gain from that game. sure naniwa had nothing to gain, but what about the people who paid to see the games? gomtv is not going to let naniwa shit on the people who paid to be entertained by their tickets lol You would not get a real game either way, you would only watch a lie - a show for the sake of the show, nothing else.
that is what's the least required for pros to do.
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If GOM changes the structure of their tournaments from now on so there are no useless matches, then we will all owe Naniwa a debt of gratitude.
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On December 15 2011 01:50 BarbieHsu wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 01:47 ShootingStars wrote:
I don't care if Naniwa offended those Koreans. He is TRUE TO HIMSELF and is honest to both PUBLIC and private. Nestea however... >_>
I'd rather watch an honest player than a player who is all nice and good manner because hes FORCING himself to. Hitler was true to himself.
AAAAAAND thats /thread. Hitler has arrived.
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GSL has been getting worse and for me this is another reason to stop buying the seasons.
It's not professional behaviour from nani but far from "abusive behaviour". Maybe GOMtv should consider their own behaviour and planning of tournaments before becoming so judgemental.
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On December 15 2011 01:51 schI2ler wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 01:44 MLG_Adam wrote:
Slasher works for MLG in our video department. He is NOT a representative of the League. Any opinion or discussion from Slasher is solely opinion based. Can you tell us if Naniwa EARNED his code S spot, or if he got invited? This is imo an important point
His invitation was discretionary. He just made the choice a hell of a lot easier. He's not being punished, in the sense that he violated a rule. But he's being punished for acting rudely [understatement]
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On December 15 2011 01:45 Govou wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 01:42 MorroW wrote:
but dont you guys agree in general making a rule where if a game doesnt matter, player should be allowed to request for walkover? or do you prefer them to be forced to play a game that doesnt matter? because this to me is far more important discussion than whatever else happened here
a rule like this to me, makes perfect sense when the money and sponsors are involved you dont get to chose which games you dont want to play as a player. if it is scheduled, and if you are paid, you should play. and at least make in plausible. do you watch world cup? I guess you dont
well as a player, again, i would never want to act a game for my fans. would make me feel like a fraud.
plus i would never want to watch or hear that flash (who i am fan of) would be forced to act a game that doesnt matter
but if you sign the contract and make it clear with the tournament admins that you HAVE to play ALL games, then this was wrong by naniwa. but we get into these iffy situations at times because of the tournament organisation, and their format doesnt make it clear to the players what they have to do when they sign up for the tournament.
if gsl said in beforehand "naniwa, even if you lose 0-3 and some other guy lose 0-3, you still have to play your game against him even if the game doesnt matter at all, try to make the game look good okok?". so agreeing to these things in beforehand is the orgas responsibility, not the players
if naniwa knew this would revoke his code S, im 110% sure he wouldnt probe rush. but the orga failed to "warn" him or make it clear to him about the conditions which is the reason all this happened in the first place. that is why i think it was wrong for gsl to point the finger at naniwa and punish him. that is why i think its the tournament orgas to blame, not the player
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On December 15 2011 01:42 MorroW wrote:
but dont you guys agree in general making a rule where if a game doesnt matter, player should be allowed to request for walkover? or do you prefer them to be forced to play a game that doesnt matter? because this to me is far more important discussion than whatever else happened here
a rule like this to me, makes perfect sense
I agree with this. I think just forfeiting is fine. What Nani did in-game is what's unacceptable.
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On December 15 2011 01:52 aderum wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 01:50 BarbieHsu wrote:On December 15 2011 01:47 ShootingStars wrote:
I don't care if Naniwa offended those Koreans. He is TRUE TO HIMSELF and is honest to both PUBLIC and private. Nestea however... >_>
I'd rather watch an honest player than a player who is all nice and good manner because hes FORCING himself to. Hitler was true to himself. AAAAAAND thats /thread. Hitler has arrived.
He always does!
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On December 15 2011 01:46 iky43210 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 01:45 Fjodorov wrote:
The main point here is that Naniwa is being punished for breaking a rule that doesnt exist. Its simply unprofessional practice by GOM. match fixing is a rule that doesn't exist now?
Don't talk about terms you obviously have no idea about what they mean.
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On December 15 2011 01:47 ShootingStars wrote:
I don't care if Naniwa offended those Koreans. He is TRUE TO HIMSELF and is honest to both PUBLIC and private. Nestea however... >_>
I'd rather watch an honest player than a player who is all nice and good manner because hes FORCING himself to.
I don't care if GundamWeRRa molested one of his players at least he was true to himself! See how stupid that statement sounds?
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Very disappointing decision by the GSL.
I understand if they didn't like Naniwa's play, but to deny him a Code S spot he rightly earned is way WAY overboard in my opinion. Give him a lecture, tell him he will not be getting a second chance, etc.
This situation makes it hard for me to support GOMTV. You can see it in polls in different thread, the opinion is about 50/50. A bunch of people are speaking out against GSL and saying they won't be buying tickets anymore.
At the end of the day, they lost viewers because of something quite ridiculous. He is getting essentially the same punishment as CoCa who "fixed" a match (and even then I felt it was too harsh because it definitely did not look pre-meditated and he looked like he just didn't think much about what he did --- although I think it was more Slayers' involvement that made him quite Code S and all).
At the end of the day, some dude probe rushed in a pointless match. He didn't go in a verbal tirade in a live game; he didn't fix matches with other players; he didn't do anything note worthy. But he's losing a Code S spot he earned.
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On December 15 2011 01:42 Avril_Lavigne wrote:
Jokes on him, guess Nestea gets the last laugh. Don't know what the big deal is, NaNiWa intentionally did what he did to make a mockery of GOM tv judging by the unprofessional posture and his bored face. not only did he waste his time but the time of spectators who were expecting to see Code S level play, wasting the time of the commentators who go out of their way to do their job who dress in suits as professional as possible. Not some bull shit rebellious crap pulled by an angsty little girl. He's probably given a totally bad name to the Swedish people you all should be angered. Those in other countries including Koreans may even believe that perhaps, Sweden accepts this kind of behavior in their country? Try to see it as a bigger picture, not just amongst the minority of sc2 gamers. For those who think that what naniwa did is acceptable then you need to face the facts that reality is different from ideal. You can say he technically didn't break "any rules" but seriously, the real world doesn't always work like that. Try the NFL and NBA, lets put a team in there who doesn't want to face the other team, have them dance around the entire game to show their rebelliousness, they aren't breaking any rules, or perhaps they are? The bigger picture is is that it's completely disrespectful to the audience and the hosts of the tournament, it's wasting peoples money, the audience and the employees who help set this shit up. Seriously, use your god damn brain, you're dealing with an asian culture who in their perspective find this very offensive.
This "behavior" is accepted in Sweden, so i dont see your point.
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On December 15 2011 01:42 poorcloud wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 01:39 Snijjer wrote:
It's sad that some people would be fine with him doing a 4-gate with no chance in winning but feel they have been gravely disrespected because he probe rushed. You are speaking with hindsight now that you know he was going to give it up anyways. If he just did a 4 gate and lost, no one would have thought he was throwing it away. Some may have even pitied him due to frustration. Others would have applauded him for playing his best in the last game. If he just did a 4 gate, and then said he in an interview he didn't bother at all and he just wanted to finish it quickly, i assure you many people would be offended as well.
It's a known fact that some players playing in a tournament with nothing at stake do not generally try their hardest to win. If that is acceptable than what Naniwa did should be as well.
Gom is taking offense because Naniwa pointed out in a very blunt manner that the game doesn't matter (which is true).
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Well this is. . .unfortunate.
Reasonable decision from GOM. Sucks for Naniwa, but it's his own fault completely.
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On December 15 2011 01:50 BarbieHsu wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 01:47 ShootingStars wrote:
I don't care if Naniwa offended those Koreans. He is TRUE TO HIMSELF and is honest to both PUBLIC and private. Nestea however... >_>
I'd rather watch an honest player than a player who is all nice and good manner because hes FORCING himself to. Hitler was true to himself.
wow it only took 200 pages for someone to compare nani to hitler.
im surprised it took this long.
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On December 15 2011 01:50 BarbieHsu wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 01:47 ShootingStars wrote:
I don't care if Naniwa offended those Koreans. He is TRUE TO HIMSELF and is honest to both PUBLIC and private. Nestea however... >_>
I'd rather watch an honest player than a player who is all nice and good manner because hes FORCING himself to. Hitler was true to himself.
So was Mother Teresa, whats your point?
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What's up with these people blaming GOM for not inviting NaNiwa to participate in Code S!! Even without the rule this is well deserved punishment for nani. Besides Nani still can participate Code A!!
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On December 15 2011 01:53 Sablar wrote:
GSL has been getting worse and for me this is another reason to stop buying the seasons.
It's not professional behaviour from nani but far from "abusive behaviour". Maybe GOMtv should consider their own behaviour and planning of tournaments before becoming so judgemental.
Think about the whole production crew, who is there almost every day. Think about the audience that came to the studio to watch good games between the best players in the world. Naniwa acted as if he were a selfish little kid. Even though he is in his in his twenties he still has a lot of growing up to do..
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EPT
