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While I understand that there's a need to discuss this matter, this thread has way too many trash posts in it. Please think carefully about what you want to say. Ad hominem attacks on Swedish people in general, calling you fellow Starcraft fans idiots etc etc will be dealt with with harsher punishment from here on out. Keep it civil people.
Page 230: Here's some more stuff that'll get you banned!
- Conspiracy theory mongering about MLG and GOM
- Comparing people to Hitler
- Posting useless one liners of arguments that have already been repeated ad nauseum. |
Well I had considered a new GSL pass with the new foreigners coming in specially Nani. But there is no reason to now I think I'll just go dump all my money on MLG shit now.
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On December 14 2011 23:00 Pwnographics wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 22:59 ReboundEU wrote:On December 14 2011 22:56 Pwnographics wrote:On December 14 2011 22:55 XRaDiiX wrote:On December 14 2011 22:53 DigitalisDestructi wrote:On December 14 2011 22:47 XRaDiiX wrote:On December 14 2011 22:42 baoluvboa wrote:On December 14 2011 22:41 drinkpepsi wrote:On December 14 2011 22:40 baoluvboa wrote:On December 14 2011 22:39 drinkpepsi wrote:
[quote]
The real irony here is that the biggest perpetrator of racism in this instance is GOM. How does this even make sense.. From past precedents, Korean players are treated just as harshly. No, they are not. And here's the thing; Naniwa didn't actually break rules. People have posted tons of incidents in this thread where a Korean actually broke the rules and wasn't punished. Naniwa 6 probe rushed. He used a bad strategy. Are we to ban incontrol from every tournament? There is not one incident where a Korean hasnt been punished. Maybe not by GOM but that is because their teams dealt with it and took them out of GSL before GOM could. Oh really ? On December 14 2011 21:54 zanga wrote:
*Ban MC from all the (seemingly FUNNY, previously that is) things he's done. Including Thumbs down, Dancing outside the booth, Waving his finger at the camera.. and many more.
*Ban Bomber for having such a BM game against MC in some MLG (dont remember which). Putting down tons of command centers in the middle of the map, doing an "orange" with 10+ CC Scans and dropping mules so many times over.
*Ban NesTea since in the Blizzcon finals he so obviously threw his game away and was just trolling around.
*Ban Coca for match-fixing. He didnt get disqualified as far as I know - he simply left the spot because of decisions in their team. I can assume GOM would've cared, but so far had theyve said anything?
..more examples? To be honest, NaNiwa's Code S was revoked more because of the "throwing the game" factor, not "BM" factor. From those examples above, only NeaTea and CoCa have relevance. I don't the Blizzcon was managed by Gom, so only CoCa's example left. CoCa (and Byun) got punished pretty heavily by their teams, and I would imagine that Gom would've done something anyway if the punishments weren't handed out. Probe Rush =/= Throwing Game. Probe rush with one hand and not using your keyboard and 10 APM = throwing the game. So a 1 handed probe rushing = throw game..but a 300APM probe rushing = correct way to play a game? Cool good to know someone really knows how to probe rush correctly on these forums. Btw...does he also need to put each probe in a CTRL group for better micro? or stutter-step? Really interested. http://hydropan.linuxpl.info/naniwa.gifThis is a picture of someone trying to win with a probe rush right?
If he was more enthusiastic or more playful he could probably escaped without punishment but his intent was clearly either apathy or malicious
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EDIT: I'm going to bed. Have fun, guys! 
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to add on, i would like to applaud naniwa and gomtv for making this shitstorm. naniwa for probe rush and gom for their game format
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On December 14 2011 22:57 Zzoram wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 22:54 lichter wrote:
The people who think Naniwa did nothing wrong are pathetic
The people who believe that GOM's decision was deserved are equally pathetic
Naniwa has a poor attitude and seriously needs to grow up. However, he doesn't deserve the boot, only a warning. Naniwa will only grow up when his actions finally have consequences. Now they do. Let's see if Naniwa grows up.
Wow it must be great to be the christ. Never having done anything that could be percieved as immature by anyone on the entire planet when you came of age. What he did was not immature, what he did anyone could have done. How much stupid shit do you think koreans would have made if they didn't have a coach to talk to? Naniwa had no one to talk to. He did what he felt was the only thing he wanted to do. He couldn't play a straight up game with the risk of showing a strategy he had been saving for an important match. Had he 4 gated 50% of the haters right now would be satisfied because they don't understand the fact that that would be the exact same thing.
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On December 14 2011 22:45 Pwnographics wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 22:44 GodZo wrote:
I disagree with GOM this time.
1) What about "Mules Throws" at the end of game?
2) What about many games thrown in less evident mode.
What about Stephano vs Cloud in DreamHack? Stephano didn't throw his games? This is just an example
Caution! Big money can ruin a game. SC2 is always a game, and that specific match was not important for most people.
I think is much worse when one player lose, simulating to play normally. This happens, this is a game, the other question is:
3) Could be a right of a player, to waste a match? or simply one player could not to play at his best.
I disapproved the rush of Naniwa but really was not important for the tourmanet and it was an entertaining match, very funny.
I hope GOM tolerate more in future, that remains a game. That match was not important, and Naniwa has not done anything serious.
In the end.
Just Naniwa played a bad strategy, that's all. When you pay someone $840 just to show up and play games for a tournament you'd at least expect them to play them out in full.
You make it sound like $840 is alot...o.O they for sure made alot more then that from the games Naniwa played and now for all the talk about it.
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On December 14 2011 23:00 Pwnographics wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 22:59 ReboundEU wrote:On December 14 2011 22:56 Pwnographics wrote:On December 14 2011 22:55 XRaDiiX wrote:On December 14 2011 22:53 DigitalisDestructi wrote:On December 14 2011 22:47 XRaDiiX wrote:On December 14 2011 22:42 baoluvboa wrote:On December 14 2011 22:41 drinkpepsi wrote:On December 14 2011 22:40 baoluvboa wrote:On December 14 2011 22:39 drinkpepsi wrote:
[quote]
The real irony here is that the biggest perpetrator of racism in this instance is GOM. How does this even make sense.. From past precedents, Korean players are treated just as harshly. No, they are not. And here's the thing; Naniwa didn't actually break rules. People have posted tons of incidents in this thread where a Korean actually broke the rules and wasn't punished. Naniwa 6 probe rushed. He used a bad strategy. Are we to ban incontrol from every tournament? There is not one incident where a Korean hasnt been punished. Maybe not by GOM but that is because their teams dealt with it and took them out of GSL before GOM could. Oh really ? On December 14 2011 21:54 zanga wrote:
*Ban MC from all the (seemingly FUNNY, previously that is) things he's done. Including Thumbs down, Dancing outside the booth, Waving his finger at the camera.. and many more.
*Ban Bomber for having such a BM game against MC in some MLG (dont remember which). Putting down tons of command centers in the middle of the map, doing an "orange" with 10+ CC Scans and dropping mules so many times over.
*Ban NesTea since in the Blizzcon finals he so obviously threw his game away and was just trolling around.
*Ban Coca for match-fixing. He didnt get disqualified as far as I know - he simply left the spot because of decisions in their team. I can assume GOM would've cared, but so far had theyve said anything?
..more examples? To be honest, NaNiwa's Code S was revoked more because of the "throwing the game" factor, not "BM" factor. From those examples above, only NeaTea and CoCa have relevance. I don't the Blizzcon was managed by Gom, so only CoCa's example left. CoCa (and Byun) got punished pretty heavily by their teams, and I would imagine that Gom would've done something anyway if the punishments weren't handed out. Probe Rush =/= Throwing Game. Probe rush with one hand and not using your keyboard and 10 APM = throwing the game. So a 1 handed probe rushing = throw game..but a 300APM probe rushing = correct way to play a game? Cool good to know someone really knows how to probe rush correctly on these forums. Btw...does he also need to put each probe in a CTRL group for better micro? or stutter-step? Really interested. http://hydropan.linuxpl.info/naniwa.gifThis is a picture of someone trying to win with a probe rush right?
and again if he had both hands on the keyboard..and doing 300APM would that mean he wants to win the game? Again..gtfo
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On December 14 2011 23:00 Pwnographics wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 22:59 ReboundEU wrote:On December 14 2011 22:56 Pwnographics wrote:On December 14 2011 22:55 XRaDiiX wrote:On December 14 2011 22:53 DigitalisDestructi wrote:On December 14 2011 22:47 XRaDiiX wrote:On December 14 2011 22:42 baoluvboa wrote:On December 14 2011 22:41 drinkpepsi wrote:On December 14 2011 22:40 baoluvboa wrote:On December 14 2011 22:39 drinkpepsi wrote:
[quote]
The real irony here is that the biggest perpetrator of racism in this instance is GOM. How does this even make sense.. From past precedents, Korean players are treated just as harshly. No, they are not. And here's the thing; Naniwa didn't actually break rules. People have posted tons of incidents in this thread where a Korean actually broke the rules and wasn't punished. Naniwa 6 probe rushed. He used a bad strategy. Are we to ban incontrol from every tournament? There is not one incident where a Korean hasnt been punished. Maybe not by GOM but that is because their teams dealt with it and took them out of GSL before GOM could. Oh really ? On December 14 2011 21:54 zanga wrote:
*Ban MC from all the (seemingly FUNNY, previously that is) things he's done. Including Thumbs down, Dancing outside the booth, Waving his finger at the camera.. and many more.
*Ban Bomber for having such a BM game against MC in some MLG (dont remember which). Putting down tons of command centers in the middle of the map, doing an "orange" with 10+ CC Scans and dropping mules so many times over.
*Ban NesTea since in the Blizzcon finals he so obviously threw his game away and was just trolling around.
*Ban Coca for match-fixing. He didnt get disqualified as far as I know - he simply left the spot because of decisions in their team. I can assume GOM would've cared, but so far had theyve said anything?
..more examples? To be honest, NaNiwa's Code S was revoked more because of the "throwing the game" factor, not "BM" factor. From those examples above, only NeaTea and CoCa have relevance. I don't the Blizzcon was managed by Gom, so only CoCa's example left. CoCa (and Byun) got punished pretty heavily by their teams, and I would imagine that Gom would've done something anyway if the punishments weren't handed out. Probe Rush =/= Throwing Game. Probe rush with one hand and not using your keyboard and 10 APM = throwing the game. So a 1 handed probe rushing = throw game..but a 300APM probe rushing = correct way to play a game? Cool good to know someone really knows how to probe rush correctly on these forums. Btw...does he also need to put each probe in a CTRL group for better micro? or stutter-step? Really interested. http://hydropan.linuxpl.info/naniwa.gifThis is a picture of someone trying to win with a probe rush right?
If Probe rush was a viable strat then yes you would look like that at the very beginning of the game.
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Are you fucking kidding me >_< When will calm minds prevail and knee-jerk reactions stop.
Also why Sen? Sure Sen is an amazing player but they at least could have given it to Sase, Huk or another Korea player.
Well the good news is, Naniwa isn't banned from the GSL, but all this drama can't be good for the mans mind. Naniwa must be broken by all this 
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United Kingdom14464 Posts
The more I think about this, the more pissed off I'm getting.
GOM really fucked up, a warning, a changing of the rules as a result, then if someone does it again, you punish them. What they did was completely scummy, Nani may be stupid and immature, but he doesn't deserve to messed around like this.
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On December 14 2011 23:00 Pwnographics wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 22:59 ReboundEU wrote:On December 14 2011 22:56 Pwnographics wrote:On December 14 2011 22:55 XRaDiiX wrote:On December 14 2011 22:53 DigitalisDestructi wrote:On December 14 2011 22:47 XRaDiiX wrote:On December 14 2011 22:42 baoluvboa wrote:On December 14 2011 22:41 drinkpepsi wrote:On December 14 2011 22:40 baoluvboa wrote:On December 14 2011 22:39 drinkpepsi wrote:
[quote]
The real irony here is that the biggest perpetrator of racism in this instance is GOM. How does this even make sense.. From past precedents, Korean players are treated just as harshly. No, they are not. And here's the thing; Naniwa didn't actually break rules. People have posted tons of incidents in this thread where a Korean actually broke the rules and wasn't punished. Naniwa 6 probe rushed. He used a bad strategy. Are we to ban incontrol from every tournament? There is not one incident where a Korean hasnt been punished. Maybe not by GOM but that is because their teams dealt with it and took them out of GSL before GOM could. Oh really ? On December 14 2011 21:54 zanga wrote:
*Ban MC from all the (seemingly FUNNY, previously that is) things he's done. Including Thumbs down, Dancing outside the booth, Waving his finger at the camera.. and many more.
*Ban Bomber for having such a BM game against MC in some MLG (dont remember which). Putting down tons of command centers in the middle of the map, doing an "orange" with 10+ CC Scans and dropping mules so many times over.
*Ban NesTea since in the Blizzcon finals he so obviously threw his game away and was just trolling around.
*Ban Coca for match-fixing. He didnt get disqualified as far as I know - he simply left the spot because of decisions in their team. I can assume GOM would've cared, but so far had theyve said anything?
..more examples? To be honest, NaNiwa's Code S was revoked more because of the "throwing the game" factor, not "BM" factor. From those examples above, only NeaTea and CoCa have relevance. I don't the Blizzcon was managed by Gom, so only CoCa's example left. CoCa (and Byun) got punished pretty heavily by their teams, and I would imagine that Gom would've done something anyway if the punishments weren't handed out. Probe Rush =/= Throwing Game. Probe rush with one hand and not using your keyboard and 10 APM = throwing the game. So a 1 handed probe rushing = throw game..but a 300APM probe rushing = correct way to play a game? Cool good to know someone really knows how to probe rush correctly on these forums. Btw...does he also need to put each probe in a CTRL group for better micro? or stutter-step? Really interested. http://hydropan.linuxpl.info/naniwa.gifThis is a picture of someone trying to win with a probe rush right?
That's not relevant. Had he tried to win with a probe rush, which still has a 0% chance of succeed, would people not complain?
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Seriously ?
Since when do we have to please the public ?
This is so wrong ...
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On December 14 2011 22:44 creepcolony wrote:
lol that poll..
TL is unbelievably conservative. That is something that REALLY blows my mind.
How can young people be like that ? And probably im even older than most people here..
Now, for real, if you think GOM is right, you should change something in your life. I dont know what, but something. And fast.
Actually I think most younger people on TL voted for naniwa as they are kiddies with no responsibility in life and don't know shit about life.
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On December 14 2011 23:00 Mycl wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 22:59 Vardant wrote:On December 14 2011 22:59 Pwnographics wrote:On December 14 2011 22:58 TiTanIum_ wrote:
I´m impressed that Bit-by-Bit never got banned from the GSL... At least he won, Naniwa is 0-10 in the GSL. MC went from Code S to Code A to Code B. Did he not deserve his Code S seed from MLG too? What does that have to do with the guy your quoting?
That it doesn't matter how you play your games, if you earn your Code S, you have the right to play there.
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On December 14 2011 23:01 Xdivine wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 22:55 dolvlo wrote:On December 14 2011 22:54 Xdivine wrote:
From what I hear, Naniwa got paid around $900 to play his games. He didn't play one of the games, basically getting paid for doing 3/4 of what he was supposed to. What if he simply probe rushed every game? He'd be getting $900 for showing up and putting 6~ minutes of.. effort? Something had to be done.
Think of it like if you were supposed to have a football game played live and one team simply decided to put 1 person on the field that simply runs back and forth like their head is chopped off. The network that they're on would be FURIOUS. You can't expect people to stay tuned in for something completely ridiculous. At least if the team came out and played a game people would have something to watch for their 1-2 hours of the game instead of switching channels. No, no NO. He was paid $900 to compete in this tournament. Not to play all 4 games. He could have conceded his last match and still gotten paid. You don't know what you're talking about. He was payed $900 to PLAY in the tournament. Playing 3/4 of the tournament doesn't exactly sound like what he's being paid for. If I paid you to build me a house and you built me 3/4 of a house I'd be pissed too. Either play all the games or don't go at all.
Except by that logic he played in the entire tournament and then probe rushed the game that just happened to be played after the results of the tournament were decided.
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On December 14 2011 22:55 kazie wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 22:47 drinkpepsi wrote:On December 14 2011 22:46 Pwnographics wrote:On December 14 2011 22:45 ChowChillaCharlie wrote:I think suspending was taking it waaay too far, a warning would've been sufficient for something as trivial as not wanting to play a game that had absolutely no meaning to it. But this is what pisses me off the most: "Mr.Chae has announced that they made Code S seeds for a professional minded pro-gamer not for an amateur prize money hunter. It is official that Naniwa is given a punishment" Talk about shooting yourself in the foot, kicking out NaNi cuz he ain't proffesional enough and then lower yourself to trash talking and lying.... Nice move GOM. It has meaning when you paid him $840 just to show up and play games to please viewers. Nobody was displeased at the 6 probe rush. I would gather most people who don't irrationally hate Naniwa found it funny, while others, like Idra; understood the rationale for his behavior. I can't even begin to imagine the "offended" mindset, I really can't. i was looking forward to this grudge match, esp after the interview event. i dont get how anyone can think throwing a game in a prestigious all star tournament is funny...
I dont get how people can expect the very best from two players that have lost 3 straight matches and are already out of the tournament.
I would also like to see a rematch, but prefferably when both have something to play for.
And Mr Chaes comments seem about as unproffesional as you can get. I hope he gets some sort of flack for that.
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How would you feel if you were at the biggest chess championship of the world, and two highly anticipated players were facing off only to have them suicide every one of their pieces 1 move at a time until a checkmate was inevitable? You'd be just as angry!
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On December 14 2011 22:56 drinkpepsi wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 22:55 kazie wrote:On December 14 2011 22:47 drinkpepsi wrote:On December 14 2011 22:46 Pwnographics wrote:On December 14 2011 22:45 ChowChillaCharlie wrote:I think suspending was taking it waaay too far, a warning would've been sufficient for something as trivial as not wanting to play a game that had absolutely no meaning to it. But this is what pisses me off the most: "Mr.Chae has announced that they made Code S seeds for a professional minded pro-gamer not for an amateur prize money hunter. It is official that Naniwa is given a punishment" Talk about shooting yourself in the foot, kicking out NaNi cuz he ain't proffesional enough and then lower yourself to trash talking and lying.... Nice move GOM. It has meaning when you paid him $840 just to show up and play games to please viewers. Nobody was displeased at the 6 probe rush. I would gather most people who don't irrationally hate Naniwa found it funny, while others, like Idra; understood the rationale for his behavior. I can't even begin to imagine the "offended" mindset, I really can't. i was looking forward to this grudge match, esp after the interview event. i dont get how anyone can think throwing a game in a prestigious all star tournament is funny... Sorry, my friend, but professional players don't exist as your personal play things. The kid was dejected, and was playing a match that meant NOTHING. It was a ladder match. 6 probe rushing a ladder match isn't offensive; it's hilarious.
we're fucking paying him $$ (well not me, hehe...) to play a game, and he should play it.
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On December 14 2011 22:57 Starcraftmazter wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 22:22 Frankon wrote:
No koreans invited to MLG Providence = no Code A and S seeds for foreigners. Simple as that. That is not what the GSL-MLG partnership rules say. And we all know that GOMTV is big on rules - right? Right? Show nested quote +Tehcnically you already started using the package. You got HQ and vods for Blizzard Cup as part of it. Technically, this one-week long joke of a tournament is not worth $140. I also like how you ignored everything else I said. Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 22:25 -Archangel- wrote:
Lol man, you have no clue. There is no valid arguments in this letter. Your text is obviously biased and your examples bad.
You can either expect no answer or a very polite "you got no clue" answer.
Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 22:27 Squeegy wrote:
That email made me facepalm. It is that full of stupid. Particularly on those parts about bias against foreigners and PayPal refund. Good luck with the latter (it actually made me chuckle a little). Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 22:27 buzzkill568 wrote:
The sad part is. I read all of that. The even sadder part is that you didn't. Because you are a complete idiot if you did. Gomtv HAD to do something. Please just stfu and read your own shitty wall of text next time.
Do any of you actually have any counter-arguments or do you just go around herping and derping? Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 22:48 Scrubby-onE wrote:
Are you serious? Do you even know the rules? Or are you just spouting nonsense out of your ass? It's a HUGE rule that you cannot throw a match, and any match deemed suspicious gets thoroughly investigated. Naniwa 7 worker rushed, took his hands off his keyboard and everything. He unquestionably threw that match. 1. If you have a problem with matching-throwing, then perhaps you should consider all the other matches that have been thrown, instead of singling this one out based on how it was done. 2. This match did not matter at all. Not even one single bit. None. What GomTV is doing, is highly unethical. There are many matches that get thrown - and they do not ever even get a mention. Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 22:48 Scrubby-onE wrote:You think just because he's a foreigner he should be an exception? People pay money and spend their time traveling to the studio to watch great games. I don't even know why you Naniwa fans aren't even upset about it. I am not a Naniwa fan, I do not care for Naniwa. What I see, is a significant problem with the integrity of GomTV. Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 22:48 Scrubby-onE wrote: Just throwing a game like that is pretty much a slap in the face for anyone who supports Naniwa, it means he doesn't give a fuck about showing you awesome games, he just cares about himself and his time. Of course, that is why he practices harder than any other foreigner. Because he doesn't care about showing awesome games, and he just cares about his time. It's all clear now. Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 22:48 Scrubby-onE wrote:It's not worth to show you guys a game because he doesn't get anything out of it. If you want to be like that, then there is a vast array of players you should be taking issue with, and it needs to be discussed and dealt with as the broader issue which it is - not by singling out one player as a scapegoat. Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 22:48 Scrubby-onE wrote:GOM being biased against? /facepalm, Oh god.. If ANYTHING, GOM is biased towards foreigners to improve their international base. How many foreigners actually legitimately qualified for Code A? As in going through Code B tournament, the ridiculous tough tournament that Hero, Dongraegu, theStC, etc failed many times before finally getting through? Like pretty much only Jinro, and IdrA? Everyone else failed. Yet we see so many foreigners being let in simply because theyre foreigners, SeleCT, Sheth, Naniwa, SaSe, the list goes on. They have spots where better Korean players should be, yet cannot because of how hard code B is. GOM even built foreigners a fuckin place to live for christ sake. This has nothing to do with code B being hard, but rather the format of the GSL. Nobody wants to come out to Korea for months and try their hand at getting to code S which is the only place they can have a chance at decent prize money, when there are frequent foreign tournaments on every continent.
You keep bringing up the fact that other players do the same thing.... They didn't do it in GSL. They did it on Stream #128444240 of Dreamhack or "Generic EU Online Cup". Those leagues didn't do anything about it, GOM did. How you're even trying to use that as an argument is beyond me.....
It did matter to people, the main reason I bought the Blizz Cup ticket was cause i saw Naniwa and Nestea in the same group and wanted to see them play(aswell as see MVP roll another tournament), I got duped out of that, because Naniwa decided to attack with probes.
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On December 14 2011 23:01 Rad wrote:
Question, does probe rush beat 6 pool? I've never tried it before but seems like it might if the probes are microed perfectly (and pulled here and there to regen shields).
I know he was just throwing the game but I wonder if this situation would be COMPLETELY different if somehow he pulled off a miraculous win (and the only win I can think of is if nestea went 6 pool and only had 5 drones vs 6 probes).
Pool is cancelled. Then you make 3 drones and run away until they hatch. Then it's over.
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EPT
