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While I understand that there's a need to discuss this matter, this thread has way too many trash posts in it. Please think carefully about what you want to say. Ad hominem attacks on Swedish people in general, calling you fellow Starcraft fans idiots etc etc will be dealt with with harsher punishment from here on out. Keep it civil people.
Page 230: Here's some more stuff that'll get you banned!
- Conspiracy theory mongering about MLG and GOM
- Comparing people to Hitler
- Posting useless one liners of arguments that have already been repeated ad nauseum. |
It was just a matter of time until NaNi's antics got him punished, and he deserves it. I agree people defending him... but he's shown himself to be a very rude, disrespectful person.
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On December 14 2011 22:46 bkrow wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 22:42 Mirror0423 wrote:On December 14 2011 22:37 bkrow wrote:
What an outrageous and ridiculous decision from GOM. Way to react to the knee-jerk responses from an online community. Naniwa said he was not in a position to play his best, so did a strategy that he thought would be quick and easy. The worst part is now GOM has set a precedent that allows them to decide how much effort a player must put in to avoid getting banned.
Was Nani's build "unethical"? Yes. Was it wrong? No. I feel that players should be able to play the way the wish - no matter if it is cheesing, probe rushing or a long macro game. As long as Nani isn't actually cheating then why should he get punished for what he did? This is a pretty stupid infringement on Nani's rights as a player Then you would approve of a player who's "mad" not leaving the game, and just building pylons all over the map delaying the inevitable since that's how he 'wants to play"? Where do you draw the line? It's better to have a vague line than no line at all imo. I don't want Naniwa staying in a game after his main is trashed and his opponent has 12 bases, while naniwa just runs around the map building pylons all over the place untill he's eliminated. If a player gets mad and builds pylons all over the map are they going to lose their Code S seed? What a ridiculous idea! The players should be able to play any way that they like; if it impacts the players image negatively he will suffer the consequences. It is not necessary for GOM to get involved.. at all.
This.
The issue is that GOM made the decision of letting this situation arise in the first place. It's so easy to have some value to all matches that I'm left wondering what logic is behind the decision of intentionally letting a tournament - with many of the best players in the world - have a structure with certain matches being for neither seating, nor money. This, alone, regardless of Naniwa throwing a game or not, has to be changed. There is absolutely no reason to ever put a progamer in a situation in which he is forced to play a game for nothing, allowing for the possibility of him not being motivated to do so, yet forced to play the game to partly hide his lack of motivation.
This calls for yet another question: Can you fault a progamer for not being fully motivated to play a game for nothing other than "the game itself"?
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Hes still eligable to play the qualifiers right? It's just the Code S spot that is being revoked.
Personally I think it's a bit harsh as it's the same punishment that CoCa got for throwing his game to Byun in ESV.
In essence they are telling us that throwing a meaningless game for all parts in the tournament (Nestea couldn't affect the outcome of their group either) is just as bad as deliberately cheating the system to help a friend get Code A instead of someone else who deserved it more.
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On December 14 2011 22:55 XRaDiiX wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 22:53 DigitalisDestructi wrote:On December 14 2011 22:47 XRaDiiX wrote:On December 14 2011 22:42 baoluvboa wrote:On December 14 2011 22:41 drinkpepsi wrote:On December 14 2011 22:40 baoluvboa wrote:On December 14 2011 22:39 drinkpepsi wrote:On December 14 2011 22:35 Hubris wrote:
Am I the only one reading some the racist, ignorant, and BM posts by people "boycotting" GOM's events feeling happy that these sort of people aren't going to be in the audience? I think I'm more inclined to buy tickets knowing that the fan base should be more mature than usual. I find it ironic many people here acting a fool are just as BM as Naniwa's actions at that, and previous tournies. The real irony here is that the biggest perpetrator of racism in this instance is GOM. How does this even make sense.. From past precedents, Korean players are treated just as harshly. No, they are not. And here's the thing; Naniwa didn't actually break rules. People have posted tons of incidents in this thread where a Korean actually broke the rules and wasn't punished. Naniwa 6 probe rushed. He used a bad strategy. Are we to ban incontrol from every tournament? There is not one incident where a Korean hasnt been punished. Maybe not by GOM but that is because their teams dealt with it and took them out of GSL before GOM could. Oh really ? On December 14 2011 21:54 zanga wrote:
*Ban MC from all the (seemingly FUNNY, previously that is) things he's done. Including Thumbs down, Dancing outside the booth, Waving his finger at the camera.. and many more.
*Ban Bomber for having such a BM game against MC in some MLG (dont remember which). Putting down tons of command centers in the middle of the map, doing an "orange" with 10+ CC Scans and dropping mules so many times over.
*Ban NesTea since in the Blizzcon finals he so obviously threw his game away and was just trolling around.
*Ban Coca for match-fixing. He didnt get disqualified as far as I know - he simply left the spot because of decisions in their team. I can assume GOM would've cared, but so far had theyve said anything?
..more examples? To be honest, NaNiwa's Code S was revoked more because of the "throwing the game" factor, not "BM" factor. From those examples above, only NeaTea and CoCa have relevance. I don't the Blizzcon was managed by Gom, so only CoCa's example left. CoCa (and Byun) got punished pretty heavily by their teams, and I would imagine that Gom would've done something anyway if the punishments weren't handed out. Probe Rush =/= Throwing Game.
Probe Rush = Throwing Game.
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Probe rush in BW against terran was viable since probes had more range and could be micro'd, there were also less workers at the beginning.
Probe rush in SC2 is useless, there is NO possible way to win the game unless your opponent is bronze, playing for the first time and doesn't know how to box his workers and a move.
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Naniwa is an asshole who has no professional pride BUT...
this is fucking stupid. Completely unnecessary and wayy too much.
This sets a horrible precedence.
User was warned for this post
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That probe rush is something CatZ would have probably done, being fully serious about it.
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On December 14 2011 22:54 lichter wrote:
The people who think Naniwa did nothing wrong are pathetic
The people who believe that GOM's decision was deserved are equally pathetic
Naniwa has a poor attitude and seriously needs to grow up. However, he doesn't deserve the boot, only a warning.
He did nothing wrong, if they wanted him to play the game serious fucking state that clear to him instead of kicking without a warning or any sign that his behavior wasn't appropriate.. The consequences of him skipping that game is way to high, and according to the rules he did nothing wrong. Fact still remains is that GOM can kick him out anyways which has been stated several times in this thread.
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I´m impressed that Bit-by-Bit never got banned from the GSL...
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If I read everything correctly now:
1. He will not receive the "random" invitation to code S he informally "earned" from Providence.
2. He is still allowed to qualify for Code A January.
If that is the way it is. Perfect "punishment" Gom. Spot on. If he is not being nice to you, no reason to be nice back. That invitation would have been given in good faith, as a gesture.
I was vehemently against the punishment as it looked when he had a Code S spot earned from the exchange. I would even be ok with him being barred from GSL Jan, now that he does not have a seeded spot.
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Everyone burning gomtv to the ground over this needs to calm down, its honestly not that big of a deal. Jesus christ people, so many obtuse overreactions in this thread.
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On December 14 2011 22:57 Starcraftmazter wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 22:22 Frankon wrote:
No koreans invited to MLG Providence = no Code A and S seeds for foreigners. Simple as that. That is not what the GSL-MLG partnership rules say. And we all know that GOMTV is big on rules - right? Right?
Read MLG-GSL exchange rule.
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What a fucking joke, this is fucking disgusting.
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Australia8532 Posts
On December 14 2011 22:54 Excomm wrote:
"It wasn't Naniwa, it was the tournament format."
"It wasn't Naniwa, it was GOM."
"It wasn't Naniwa, it was the build he used."
"It wasn't Naniwa, he didn't break any rules."
"It's not just Naniwa, everyone else does the same thing."
At what point does a player need to take responsibility for their actions, ever?
This generation is in for a shock when they get fired from their job for misconduct or poor performance and they complain, "but we didn't break any rules!"
If any other player had done the same thing, they would have gotten the same punishment (possibly worse for a player on a Korean team) so there is no discrimination here. You can argue the penalty is too harsh, but stop blaming everyone else for this decision. Naniwa has no one to blame but himself.
The player is free to be punished by his team. It has nothing to do with GOM since he has not broken any of their rules. The rule they are applying is ridiculous and is being inconsistently applied across the board.
GOM doesn't get to decide the standard of games that players put out;
Don't talk down to "this generation" because it makes you sound like a pompous ass.
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On December 14 2011 22:58 TiTanIum_ wrote:
I´m impressed that Bit-by-Bit never got banned from the GSL...
At least he won, Naniwa is 0-10 in the GSL.
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On December 14 2011 22:57 Kfish wrote:
Probe rush in BW against terran was viable since probes had more range and could be micro'd, there were also less workers at the beginning.
Probe rush in SC2 is useless, there is NO possible way to win the game unless your opponent is bronze, playing for the first time and doesn't know how to box his workers and a move.
And probes are also the worst workers to rush with lol, even drones are better
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i dunno to laugh or "not want to live on this planet anymore" when ppl call gom rascist. if it was a korean player who did that in dat match, we would probably never see that guy in any gom organised tournament
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On December 14 2011 22:48 GeNeSiDe wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 22:45 Pwnographics wrote:On December 14 2011 22:44 GodZo wrote:
I disagree with GOM this time.
1) What about "Mules Throws" at the end of game?
2) What about many games thrown in less evident mode.
What about Stephano vs Cloud in DreamHack? Stephano didn't throw his games? This is just an example
Caution! Big money can ruin a game. SC2 is always a game, and that specific match was not important for most people.
I think is much worse when one player lose, simulating to play normally. This happens, this is a game, the other question is:
3) Could be a right of a player, to waste a match? or simply one player could not to play at his best.
I disapproved the rush of Naniwa but really was not important for the tourmanet and it was an entertaining match, very funny.
I hope GOM tolerate more in future, that remains a game. That match was not important, and Naniwa has not done anything serious.
In the end.
Just Naniwa played a bad strategy, that's all. When you pay someone $840 just to show up and play games for a tournament you'd at least expect them to play them out in full. QFT
You misunderstand. This was not some invitation he received that could be arbitrarily revoked, it was a spot he earned and a had a right to. The only way for GomTV to legally revoke that would be if he broke the rules. According to them, he did, but the rule they cite is not one that has been followed in the past, so now GomTV finds themselves either having to revoke a lot Code A and Code S players' right to play in their leagues, or they have acted illegally.
Or they could just give NaNiWa his seed back, apologize for their actions, fix their rules and tournament structure and go on with life losing only a minimal amount of revenue from their customers, and perhaps not risk being sued--like any real professional company would do, if they ever put themselves in such a situation in the first place.
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On December 14 2011 22:56 Pwnographics wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 22:55 XRaDiiX wrote:On December 14 2011 22:53 DigitalisDestructi wrote:On December 14 2011 22:47 XRaDiiX wrote:On December 14 2011 22:42 baoluvboa wrote:On December 14 2011 22:41 drinkpepsi wrote:On December 14 2011 22:40 baoluvboa wrote:On December 14 2011 22:39 drinkpepsi wrote:On December 14 2011 22:35 Hubris wrote:
Am I the only one reading some the racist, ignorant, and BM posts by people "boycotting" GOM's events feeling happy that these sort of people aren't going to be in the audience? I think I'm more inclined to buy tickets knowing that the fan base should be more mature than usual. I find it ironic many people here acting a fool are just as BM as Naniwa's actions at that, and previous tournies. The real irony here is that the biggest perpetrator of racism in this instance is GOM. How does this even make sense.. From past precedents, Korean players are treated just as harshly. No, they are not. And here's the thing; Naniwa didn't actually break rules. People have posted tons of incidents in this thread where a Korean actually broke the rules and wasn't punished. Naniwa 6 probe rushed. He used a bad strategy. Are we to ban incontrol from every tournament? There is not one incident where a Korean hasnt been punished. Maybe not by GOM but that is because their teams dealt with it and took them out of GSL before GOM could. Oh really ? On December 14 2011 21:54 zanga wrote:
*Ban MC from all the (seemingly FUNNY, previously that is) things he's done. Including Thumbs down, Dancing outside the booth, Waving his finger at the camera.. and many more.
*Ban Bomber for having such a BM game against MC in some MLG (dont remember which). Putting down tons of command centers in the middle of the map, doing an "orange" with 10+ CC Scans and dropping mules so many times over.
*Ban NesTea since in the Blizzcon finals he so obviously threw his game away and was just trolling around.
*Ban Coca for match-fixing. He didnt get disqualified as far as I know - he simply left the spot because of decisions in their team. I can assume GOM would've cared, but so far had theyve said anything?
..more examples? To be honest, NaNiwa's Code S was revoked more because of the "throwing the game" factor, not "BM" factor. From those examples above, only NeaTea and CoCa have relevance. I don't the Blizzcon was managed by Gom, so only CoCa's example left. CoCa (and Byun) got punished pretty heavily by their teams, and I would imagine that Gom would've done something anyway if the punishments weren't handed out. Probe Rush =/= Throwing Game. Probe rush with one hand and not using your keyboard and 10 APM = throwing the game.
No it doesn't constitute throwing the game he was using his mouse you don't need his keyboard hand for probe rush FFS
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On December 14 2011 22:56 Pwnographics wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 22:55 XRaDiiX wrote:On December 14 2011 22:53 DigitalisDestructi wrote:On December 14 2011 22:47 XRaDiiX wrote:On December 14 2011 22:42 baoluvboa wrote:On December 14 2011 22:41 drinkpepsi wrote:On December 14 2011 22:40 baoluvboa wrote:On December 14 2011 22:39 drinkpepsi wrote:On December 14 2011 22:35 Hubris wrote:
Am I the only one reading some the racist, ignorant, and BM posts by people "boycotting" GOM's events feeling happy that these sort of people aren't going to be in the audience? I think I'm more inclined to buy tickets knowing that the fan base should be more mature than usual. I find it ironic many people here acting a fool are just as BM as Naniwa's actions at that, and previous tournies. The real irony here is that the biggest perpetrator of racism in this instance is GOM. How does this even make sense.. From past precedents, Korean players are treated just as harshly. No, they are not. And here's the thing; Naniwa didn't actually break rules. People have posted tons of incidents in this thread where a Korean actually broke the rules and wasn't punished. Naniwa 6 probe rushed. He used a bad strategy. Are we to ban incontrol from every tournament? There is not one incident where a Korean hasnt been punished. Maybe not by GOM but that is because their teams dealt with it and took them out of GSL before GOM could. Oh really ? On December 14 2011 21:54 zanga wrote:
*Ban MC from all the (seemingly FUNNY, previously that is) things he's done. Including Thumbs down, Dancing outside the booth, Waving his finger at the camera.. and many more.
*Ban Bomber for having such a BM game against MC in some MLG (dont remember which). Putting down tons of command centers in the middle of the map, doing an "orange" with 10+ CC Scans and dropping mules so many times over.
*Ban NesTea since in the Blizzcon finals he so obviously threw his game away and was just trolling around.
*Ban Coca for match-fixing. He didnt get disqualified as far as I know - he simply left the spot because of decisions in their team. I can assume GOM would've cared, but so far had theyve said anything?
..more examples? To be honest, NaNiwa's Code S was revoked more because of the "throwing the game" factor, not "BM" factor. From those examples above, only NeaTea and CoCa have relevance. I don't the Blizzcon was managed by Gom, so only CoCa's example left. CoCa (and Byun) got punished pretty heavily by their teams, and I would imagine that Gom would've done something anyway if the punishments weren't handed out. Probe Rush =/= Throwing Game. Probe rush with one hand and not using your keyboard and 10 APM = throwing the game.
So a 1 handed probe rushing = throw game..but a 300APM probe rushing = correct way to play a game? Cool good to know someone really knows how to probe rush correctly on these forums.
Btw...does he also need to put each probe in a CTRL group for better micro? or stutter-step? Really interested. I think if he did that the croud and gom would have been pleased enough to not give him any penalty...
Seriously...gtfo..
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EPT
