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Please keep this thread on topic. It's ok to discuss the professionalism of what happened, but don't turn this thread into personal attacks or it will be closed. |
On December 14 2011 08:08 InvalidID wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 08:06 stokes17 wrote:On December 14 2011 08:01 InvalidID wrote:On December 14 2011 07:58 stokes17 wrote:On December 14 2011 07:56 Tantaburs wrote:On December 14 2011 07:10 Skwid1g wrote:On December 14 2011 07:01 Tantaburs wrote:On December 14 2011 06:50 zhurai wrote:On December 14 2011 06:49 Tantaburs wrote:On December 14 2011 06:37 zhurai wrote:
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"I'm also a nestea fan but he has disappointed me so often lately."
Same, but I mean, he's still trying. also apparently that day/today was his birthday or something from what I understand? idk... -_-
"Its a tournaments of champions so I understand they want all the games to be played. As a player though are you going to care if you win and tie 2nd last or lose and tie for last?"
if you really were _competitive_... you would still want to win.
edit:
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you're calling worker rushing a strategy. um.. worker rushing ...
Worker rushing is a strategey. Not a very good one but a strategey. I remeber when the 12 drone rush was a good build on Steppes. Unless you can find a GSL rule that says you can't worker rush then this thread is pointless 12 drone rush is different, the timings on steppes of war line up that the drones get there before you can get a walloff up random drone rush on random maps in this metagame don't work unless you don't have a brain or don't know that your workers can attack And a probe rush beats a 6 pool. Yes Nani knew he was going to lose but you can't ban someone for doing a build you don't like. As has been said in this thread and tweeted by HuK. Stephano 6 pooled cloud twice when the games mattered Had cloud not won then the standings would have been changed. Stephano got no hate for this because apparently 6 pooling a terran is acceptable but probe rushing warrants a ban. IdrA has walked away for tournament but apparently forfieting is okay but probe rushing isn't. Nani didn't do anything outside of the rules he didn't want to play the game so he probe rushed. If he had gone for a double gateway in nesteas vision would that have been okay. What about 2 expansions before a gateway.where do you draw the line on what you can and can't do in a game. No, a 12 drone rush is infinitely more viable than a probe rush, don't even try and compare the two. Especially since one was done on steppes of war and Idra won games against good players back then doing the 12 drone rush. What Stephano did was wrong, but it wasn't anywhere near as big as what Naniwa did. You also have to remember that Stephano is known as a friendly guy, while Naniwa is a repeat offender and apparently not the easiest person to work with behind the scenes either. If you're talking about MLG I'm pretty sure it got cleared up that Idra was watching Huk's games and didn't realize he was supposed to play, although I could be wrong. How you do you figure that. NaNi's game changed nothing Stephano's changed group results. Also IdrA left the semi finals if the TL Open after losing a game. But Naniwa did it to nestea!...In korea!....... >_> yea exactly, you can't change how you value an offense based on how much you like the perpetrator lol But you can based on the scale of the event. Leaving an online TL open match is different then leaving a major LAN with a paying customer base. DH= GSL no? and Stephano's games affected seeding. So I'm gonna say your argument doesn't hold. Also the whole paying fan base thing, I got 12 games in group B and only 10 in group A, so does that mean i didnt get my money's worth on Monday?... stop harping on the payment. The post I quoted was about Idra leaving an online TL Open map not Stephano's games, that I agree were disrespectful. Its not about the number of games, its about the fact that that was probably the most anticipated match in the tourney. I never said I didn't feel I got my moneys worth, or that I am particularly upset about it, but it is disrespectful to the paying fans, you cannot deny that.
The post references both issues. The Stephano case being more applicable because both NaNi and Stephano played build they knew would probably lose because they didn't want to play
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Has anyone ever actually loss to a 6 probe rush?
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On December 14 2011 09:12 moochu wrote:
Has anyone ever actually loss to a 6 probe rush?
In theory on a map like xel naga i think it might beat a 6 pool. (assuming u hit before he's mined 200 minerals-150 for pool and 50 for lings) you should win 6 probes vs 5 drones.
But that's not really the point is it
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On December 14 2011 09:12 moochu wrote:
Has anyone ever actually loss to a 6 probe rush?
I'll keep trying it until it works later today. It should work by the time I hit bronze.
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I think it's a bit ridiculous that someone like Nani can get flamed for calling Nestea 'bad', but Choya, IM team twitter, etc. can shit talk him publicly and much more harshly without any repercussions.
On December 14 2011 09:19 anrimayu wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 09:12 moochu wrote:
Has anyone ever actually loss to a 6 probe rush? I'll keep trying it until it works later today. It should work by the time I hit bronze.
my friend (gold) used it for awhile, works until about low gold. Very suprising results I lost $5 because of it T.T
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this is not what a professional gamer should dlo its irresponsible to the fans, organizers and sponsors
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A player's job is not to entertain viewers. A player's job is to win tournaments. Fans getting to enjoy great games between great players is just a side effect, and the tournament benefits from this whole arrangement. I think this is a big difference between Eastern and Western culture. In Eastern culture it's considered professional to always put forth effort. People think the impetus is on the players to create great games. In Western culture, the pressure is on the tournament organizers to create great games by bringing in the best talent (luring them with prize money, prestige, trophies, etc.).
Get over it. The guy didn't want to play another game. He wasn't contractually obligated to finish the game. He could have simply gg'd immediately, or killed his own Nexus, or just refused to play. And you should be fine with that.
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this is like for a soccer league oh i won't win the championship so i am not gonna try to play for the rest of the season
this type of attitude should be banned
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On December 14 2011 09:22 JL_GG wrote:
this is like for a soccer league oh i won't win the championship so i am not gonna try to play for the rest of the season
this type of attitude should be banned
No, the tournament organizers should think of a better incentive system that would encourage the team to keep playing. If an incentive existed, they would keep playing. Since there is none, they won't. It's as simple as that.
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Switzerland2892 Posts
On December 14 2011 09:19 anrimayu wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 09:12 moochu wrote:
Has anyone ever actually loss to a 6 probe rush? I'll keep trying it until it works later today. It should work by the time I hit bronze.
Maybe if you stack your 6 probes. You can almost one shot a drone and he can't focus fire?
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On December 14 2011 09:21 SirKibbleX wrote:
A player's job is not to entertain viewers. A player's job is to win tournaments. Fans getting to enjoy great games between great players is just a side effect, and the tournament benefits from this whole arrangement. I think this is a big difference between Eastern and Western culture. In Eastern culture it's considered professional to always put forth effort. People think the impetus is on the players to create great games. In Western culture, the pressure is on the tournament organizers to create great games by bringing in the best talent (luring them with prize money, prestige, trophies, etc.).
Get over it. The guy didn't want to play another game. He wasn't contractually obligated to finish the game. He could have simply gg'd immediately, or killed his own Nexus, or just refused to play. And you should be fine with that.
Youre rigtn but do understand doing so will result in dissappointed people and start a flame fest. A selfish person would do what naniwa did.
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lol.
Naniwa is such a child. This was the equivalent to a toddlers temper tantrum. I can never cheer for a kid with absolutely no mental fortitude. Even the notorious IdrA has made efforts to become stronger and correct his mental weaknesses to become a better competitor. Even so nothing he ever did was this silly.
What I don't understand is why he just didn't enter the game then gg out immediately. If he can't handle playing a VIDEO GAME for decent money I will trade places with him in a second.....such a baby. You are getting paid to do a job, represent your team and your sponsors properly.
Naniwa i got news for you .. you will NEVER be the best with your attitude ..ever.
I was actually just about to buy a ticket to watch last nights blizzard cups matches since i missed the live show when i saw this on TL. Was looking forward to this matchup the most..I will save my money till i see what GOM's reaction is.
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On December 14 2011 09:21 SirKibbleX wrote:
A player's job is not to entertain viewers. A player's job is to win tournaments. Fans getting to enjoy great games between great players is just a side effect, and the tournament benefits from this whole arrangement. I think this is a big difference between Eastern and Western culture. In Eastern culture it's considered professional to always put forth effort. People think the impetus is on the players to create great games. In Western culture, the pressure is on the tournament organizers to create great games by bringing in the best talent (luring them with prize money, prestige, trophies, etc.).
Get over it. The guy didn't want to play another game. He wasn't contractually obligated to finish the game. He could have simply gg'd immediately, or killed his own Nexus, or just refused to play. And you should be fine with that.
Wait, in Western Culture what is considered professional? Doing the bare minimum that my contract says?_?
And how about the 2nd point?_? Last time I checked when teams play like crap they usually get a lot of backlash from its fans.....And it even happens when they just underperform not as in they gave up just underperform.
But thanks for explaining all of us Western culture....
Although i do agree with the get over it part.
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On December 14 2011 09:19 anrimayu wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 09:12 moochu wrote:
Has anyone ever actually loss to a 6 probe rush? I'll keep trying it until it works later today. It should work by the time I hit bronze.
HDstarcraft did one wayy back then LOL
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On December 13 2011 21:37 shabby wrote:
@FXOChoya: [Can't believe] that kind of bastard is a pro-gamer.
Sums up my feelings quite nicely. The first time I heard of Naniwa was in TSL3. "CHILL GET OUT", or something of the kind. It seemed rude at the time. Then Startale seemed happy to lose Naniwa because of attitude problems, and now this dick move by him. Yes, the result didn't matter, but the tournament as a whole is cheapened as a result of this tantrum.
I hope GSL imposes some form of penalty on Naniwa for this unsportsmanlike behavior, because this is the kind of thing that hurts eSPORTS.
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On December 14 2011 09:21 SirKibbleX wrote:
A player's job is not to entertain viewers. A player's job is to win tournaments. Fans getting to enjoy great games between great players is just a side effect, and the tournament benefits from this whole arrangement. I think this is a big difference between Eastern and Western culture. In Eastern culture it's considered professional to always put forth effort. People think the impetus is on the players to create great games. In Western culture, the pressure is on the tournament organizers to create great games by bringing in the best talent (luring them with prize money, prestige, trophies, etc.).
Get over it. The guy didn't want to play another game. He wasn't contractually obligated to finish the game. He could have simply gg'd immediately, or killed his own Nexus, or just refused to play. And you should be fine with that.
A pro-gamer's job is to entertain viewers. A pro gamer's job is not only restricted to winning tournaments. Fans getting to enjoy great games between great players is not a side effect but what drives tournaments/sponsorships. I think it has nothing to do with Eastern and Western culture. In Eastern culture it's not always considered professional to always put forth effort. People do not think the impetus is on the players to create great games. In Western culture, the pressure is on the tournament organizers to get funds by bringing in more viewership and mass appeal (luring them with great games, prestige, etc).
Just screwing with you lol but you are so wrong.
viewership/focus group/appeal ---> sponsorships/tournament prize money ---> pro players
It's not
pro players ---> sponsorships ---> viewership
There wouldn't be pro gamers if there weren't fans/enthusiasts.
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On December 14 2011 08:36 Therg wrote:
Pretty stupid by GomTV making them play a game that didn't matter. In a lot of sports such a game would never be played, since it is kinda pointless.
Soccer?
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The comments on this thread are out of hand and ridiculous.
First of all, I think it's really retarded that people are saying "Oh! I didn't get my moneys worth" Who can honestly admit they bought a blizzcup ticket for the sole purpose of ONLY watching Naniwa vs Nestea? NOBODY! And to say you didn't get your moneys worth after watching Leenock, Naniwa, Nestea, MMA, Polt, MVP, Stephano, Hero, DRG, and MC vs each other is a slap in the face to all of those players. If somebody can pull out a rule book for Blizzcup and show me where it says "you can't worker rush" then I'll shut up. Fact is, there was no rule stating he couldn't do it. Naniwa was already out of the tournament, regardless if he won or lost and had nothing to prove. Also to the post above, if there's a "rule" for throwing games in SC2, please link me to the rule book. This is not Pro League where you have an established committee and board (Kespa) where the players sign contracts and are (licensed) as pro-gamers. This is a tournament where NONE of the players are licensed (unless MVP still has is which I doubt). Therefore, there's no crime in what Naniwa did. What he did however, was disrespectful to everybody who had high expectations and anticipation for the match. But, he should in no way be "banned from GSL" or "banned from a GSL seeding" or "blizzard event" when there's no contract, licensing, rule book, or committee stating such action could not be performed.
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Even if teams can't make the playoffs, they still play the games before hand as best as they can. And don't forfeit. Naniwa is just a professional QQ'er, not a professional sc2, or a professional at all.
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On December 14 2011 09:56 ThePurist wrote:
A pro-gamer's job is to entertain viewers. A pro gamer's job is not only restricted to winning tournaments. Fans getting to enjoy great games between great players is not a side effect but what drives tournaments/sponsorships. I think it has nothing to do with Eastern and Western culture. In Eastern culture it's not always considered professional to always put forth effort. People do not think the impetus is on the players to create great games. In Western culture, the pressure is on the tournament organizers to get funds by bringing in more viewership and mass appeal (luring them with great games, prestige, etc).
pro players ---> sponsorships ---> viewership
That's your opinion of a pro-gamer's job. IMO, it depends on the situation and where the pro-gamer is getting their income. Someone like Destiny, I would argue his job is to entertain viewers. That's because (I assume) his income is from streaming, moreso than winning tournaments or sponsorships, or team salary. Naniwa has said he left Complexity, at least in significant part, because they focused less on tournament winnings and more on streaming and publicity than he was comfortable with. He specifically mentioned the contrast between his MLG results to Catz' stream viewership. He said Complexity saw them comparably and Naniwa disagreed. So, it's clear Naniwa is not concerned with that side of the business, which is fine. He wants to win tournaments. That's what he wants. He is a pro-gamer because he earns his living playing Starcraft 2. If viewers find his play entertaining, that's a bonus, but it's not his job. Winning is. For others, they have other priorities, and they can all find themselves under the umbrella of the "pro-gamer" moniker.
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EPT
