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Active: 911 users

A statistical look at map evolution

Forum Index > Closed
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Hassybaby
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United Kingdom10823 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-11-23 14:20:17
November 23 2011 14:11 GMT
#1
We've had significant discussions over the course of this year about how certain maps have distinct advantages for certain races over others, and statistics have been thrown around left and right to reinforce points on either sides. Sometimes we have seen no changes, other times we have seen developers change considerable aspects of a map to compensate. My question is; have these changes worked?

Specifically i want to look at 4 maps that have been at the forefront of balance for significant periods of their lifespan in SC2: Bel'Shir Beach, Antiga Shipyard, Lost/Shattered Temple, and Shakuras Plateau. Hopefully, having looked through the statistics linked to these maps, we an gauge a reasonable conclusion about map fixes,and their affects on the win-rates of races.

A few notes before we start though:

- All data written in this post is taken from TLPD. I know the site is run by a few dedicated guy who update it as much as they can, so some data may be missing at the time of writing this. However, to the best of my knowledge, this data is as accurate as possible at this moment.
- Data of updates are taken from Liquipedia. Again, a few dedicated guys updating the data there, and it is accurate at the time of writing
- For convenience, we are only looking at win-rates based on versions of map. While there are outside factors, the complications of discussing game patches, player ability, location, fatigue etc. will make this outrageously complicated.
- Don't turn this into a balance debate. This has nothing to do with it.


First up, (Wiki)Bel&

[image loading]

Original:
+ Show Spoiler +
[image loading]


1.1
+ Show Spoiler +
[image loading]

Added a fourth base along the top and the bottom of the map
Added Xel'Naga watchtowers in the middle
Added rocks blocking the base of the gold expansion
Removed pathway between the natural and third

1.2
+ Show Spoiler +
[image loading]

Removed high-ground at the choke between main and natural
Removed smaller path into natural
Narrowed path into natural (can now be blocked by three large buildings)
Enlarged the main slightly

Winter
+ Show Spoiler +
[image loading]

Tileset changed to emulate an ice environment.
Gold expansion changed to normal expansion with 8 mineral patches and 2 geysers. Rocks also removed.

The changes in 1.1 were made due to the nature of base trading on the original, as well as the fact that, due to the number of pathways and attack options, it was Zerg favoured. The statistics show the same:

Win vs Terran: 62.5%
Win vs Toss: 54.54%

1.1 implementation showed minor improvements in the match-up vs Terran, but damage the matchup vs protoss:

Win vs Terran: 59.62%
Win vs Toss: 62.96%


1.2 saw more removals of pathways, reductions of the natural's ramp, plus the loss of the high ground at the choke into the main. Arguments stated that Nydus worms were too easy to place on the high ground uncontested, plus the large ramp at the front, coupled with the extra path, made it very difficult to defend

The win rations, however showed a different story:

Win vs Terran: 43.75%
Win vs Protoss: 68.42

So once again, we see an improvement for Terran, but a loss for Protoss

"These guys are mindfucking me into a sex coma" | "Mayonnaise is a must-have lubricant when performing necrophilia"
Hassybaby
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United Kingdom10823 Posts
November 23 2011 14:12 GMT
#2
Reserved for Antiga
"These guys are mindfucking me into a sex coma" | "Mayonnaise is a must-have lubricant when performing necrophilia"
Hassybaby
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United Kingdom10823 Posts
November 23 2011 14:12 GMT
#3
Reserved for LT
"These guys are mindfucking me into a sex coma" | "Mayonnaise is a must-have lubricant when performing necrophilia"
Hassybaby
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United Kingdom10823 Posts
November 23 2011 14:12 GMT
#4
Reserves for Shakuras
"These guys are mindfucking me into a sex coma" | "Mayonnaise is a must-have lubricant when performing necrophilia"
Hassybaby
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United Kingdom10823 Posts
November 23 2011 14:12 GMT
#5
Conclusion
"These guys are mindfucking me into a sex coma" | "Mayonnaise is a must-have lubricant when performing necrophilia"
AcrossFiveJulys
Profile Blog Joined September 2005
United States3612 Posts
November 23 2011 14:15 GMT
#6
Reserved for Epilogue
AcrossFiveJulys
Profile Blog Joined September 2005
United States3612 Posts
November 23 2011 14:15 GMT
#7
Reserved for References
AcrossFiveJulys
Profile Blog Joined September 2005
United States3612 Posts
November 23 2011 14:16 GMT
#8
Reserved for smiling picture of author
Cascade
Profile Blog Joined March 2006
Australia5405 Posts
November 23 2011 14:20 GMT
#9
hmm, this can be interesting data, but why not finish writing before you post? >_>

Now you will waste a lot of views to people that see it now and dont see the data.
ill be back later I guess...
Cascade
Profile Blog Joined March 2006
Australia5405 Posts
November 23 2011 14:23 GMT
#10
Also, pleased add errors to the percentages! A 75% winrate doesnt mean anything if its from 4 games, and a 60% winrate is significant if from 230 games. A normal sqrt(N) will do fine. Let me know if you need help. Cheers.
Hassybaby
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United Kingdom10823 Posts
November 23 2011 14:25 GMT
#11
On November 23 2011 23:20 Cascade wrote:
hmm, this can be interesting data, but why not finish writing before you post? >_>

Now you will waste a lot of views to people that see it now and dont see the data.
ill be back later I guess...


I clicked post instead of preview....may ask a mod to take it down till I get it totally done
"These guys are mindfucking me into a sex coma" | "Mayonnaise is a must-have lubricant when performing necrophilia"
monitor
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
United States2404 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-11-23 14:26:34
November 23 2011 14:25 GMT
#12
On November 23 2011 23:20 Cascade wrote:
hmm, this can be interesting data, but why not finish writing before you post? >_>

Now you will waste a lot of views to people that see it now and dont see the data.
ill be back later I guess...


Agreed... seems strange to make the post but only write 1/4th of it. I'm glad to see this type of thread though, because making small balance changes to maps makes all the difference.

[edit]
On November 23 2011 23:25 Hassybaby wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 23 2011 23:20 Cascade wrote:
hmm, this can be interesting data, but why not finish writing before you post? >_>

Now you will waste a lot of views to people that see it now and dont see the data.
ill be back later I guess...


I clicked post instead of preview....may ask a mod to take it down till I get it totally done


Oh, nevermind then
Mapmaker & TLMC Judge. Amygdala, Frostline, Crimson Court, and Korhal Compound (WoL).
Cascade
Profile Blog Joined March 2006
Australia5405 Posts
November 23 2011 14:27 GMT
#13
On November 23 2011 23:25 Hassybaby wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 23 2011 23:20 Cascade wrote:
hmm, this can be interesting data, but why not finish writing before you post? >_>

Now you will waste a lot of views to people that see it now and dont see the data.
ill be back later I guess...


I clicked post instead of preview....may ask a mod to take it down till I get it totally done


ah, ok. :D I've been close to do that as well a few times. I'll comment more when you're done. gl with writing.
Coriolis
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United States1152 Posts
November 23 2011 14:30 GMT
#14
Why didn't you put Tal Darim altar in?
Descolada in everything not TL/Starcraft
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