Ok, so a few people in the live report thread already know about this, but we just witnessed a game between Strelok and TSL's Revival on a rigged version of shakuras plateau, where marines had range seven and were dealing double damage. a regame has already been called, but this actually brings up a much much bigger issue:
does IEM need to check ALL the games that have been played thus far to ensure all the victories were fair? My sentiment is ABSOLUTELY. they have been hosting all the games on the chinese client, and if there have been any discrepancies that would be a pretty big problem.
if a mod could add a poll (sorry, im a bit noob at this) just asking whether or not TL thinks this is necessary hopefully the IEM organizers will get a look at it.
EDIT:
could a mod please change the title to something a little less......controversial i guess? apparently it is too strongly worded for the purpose i intended- in no way do i mean to make any harsh accusations, i merely wanted to inform/discuss.
EDIT 2: Mr. Bitter and Rotterdam just confirmed on their stream that it was a concentrated incident, apparently only the second game between strelok and revival was a problem. Feel free to close this thread, change it, whatever. the issue has been taken care of :D
This seems to be a pretty big issue, I feel as if someone is going to make it far in the tournament who isn't meant to be there because of these map issues
7 range and double damage on marines?!? Good thing the max supply was shown to be greater than 200 otherwise these other things may not have been noticed as easily
Also what's with that title? It was only ONE game and only ONE map. Not games and maps ... learn to write properly before creating threads.
apparently you didn't read the OP at all....
the issue is we dont KNOW FOR SURE if it was only 1 game and 1 map. that is the WHOLE reason the thread is titled as such.
learn to read before posting hostile replies.
EDIT: i guess if the admins/mods see it fitting, add a -? to the end of the OP. i am not accusing all maps of being rigged but merely raising the question that they may or may not be.
Replays should be checked regardless, but this was likely just a mistake due to the language barrier. I'm not sure why Strelok was hosting the map though, since I went to get food and missed this spectacle.
Also what's with that title? It was only ONE game and only ONE map. Not games and maps ... learn to write properly before creating threads.
apparently you didn't read the OP at all....
the issue is we dont KNOW FOR SURE if it was only 1 game and 1 map. that is the WHOLE reason the thread is titled as such.
learn to read before posting hostile replies.
Apparently you didn't read his post at all.... Though he probably didn't need to be hostile. If you look at the link he posted its to download ALL of the replays from the games so you can even check for yourself if they played on rigged maps or not....
Also what's with that title? It was only ONE game and only ONE map. Not games and maps ... learn to write properly before creating threads.
apparently you didn't read the OP at all....
the issue is we dont KNOW FOR SURE if it was only 1 game and 1 map. that is the WHOLE reason the thread is titled as such.
learn to read before posting hostile replies.
You try to make it worse than it is to get more attention. How about you go check all the replays and then make the thread? Do you think the IEM admins need this thread in order to check the replays? It was said by many that Strelok hosted this map and not the IEM admins (who hosted the other maps), so it's almost sure that the other games are fine.
Also what's with that title? It was only ONE game and only ONE map. Not games and maps ... learn to write properly before creating threads.
apparently you didn't read the OP at all....
the issue is we dont KNOW FOR SURE if it was only 1 game and 1 map. that is the WHOLE reason the thread is titled as such.
learn to read before posting hostile replies.
Apparently you didn't read his post at all.... Though he probably didn't need to be hostile. If you look at the link he posted its to download ALL of the replays from the games so you can even check for yourself if they played on rigged maps or not....
yes, i see that, but at the time that viewers see any discrepancy the tournament is over. what then? the tournament organizers need their referees to check them NOW. counting on "releasing the replays to the public" for them to verify is NOT the same.
On October 02 2011 13:40 Zooper31 wrote: Well all the replays IEM has submitted from Day1 are completely mis-labeled. Wrong races and wrong maps for all the replays I've tried to view. Guess I'm not gonna see if other maps are rigged too.
The problem is all the maps are in Chinese character. Foreign hosts/players cant read it ... they just simply choose the top one, unfortunately, the map is some one made for fun ...
Also what's with that title? It was only ONE game and only ONE map. Not games and maps ... learn to write properly before creating threads.
apparently you didn't read the OP at all....
the issue is we dont KNOW FOR SURE if it was only 1 game and 1 map. that is the WHOLE reason the thread is titled as such.
learn to read before posting hostile replies.
Apparently you didn't read his post at all.... Though he probably didn't need to be hostile. If you look at the link he posted its to download ALL of the replays from the games so you can even check for yourself if they played on rigged maps or not....
yes, i see that, but at the time that viewers see any discrepancy the tournament is over. what then? the tournament organizers need their referees to check them NOW. counting on "releasing the replays to the public" for them to verify is NOT the same.
Well my bad, I thought they were releasing them right away for some reason(Foolish to think they could be that awesome I know.) And apparently people are saying day 1's replays are all mislabelled etc. So thats not good. And I would assume the refs are checking them right now, would be stupid if they didn't I was merely saying you can(Eventually) check them yourself too.
I'm pretty sure they will check all games. This is most likely the only instance of this happening because as far as we know it was the only game hosted by a player.
On October 02 2011 13:42 eleaf wrote: The problem is all the maps are in Chinese character. Foreign hosts/players cant read it ... they just simply choose the top one, unfortunately, the map is some one made for fun ...
¨The admins chinese admins/casters hosted all the other game. Expect this one who Strelok hosted.
On October 02 2011 13:40 Zooper31 wrote: Well all the replays IEM has submitted from Day1 are completely mis-labeled. Wrong races and wrong maps for all the replays I've tried to view. Guess I'm not gonna see if other maps are rigged too.
From the other thread. This is concerning.
Ya I was simply gonna see if that rigged Shakuras map popped up earlier for some reason yesterday. Tried viewing 3 replays.
None of them were played on Shakuras as they were listed to be and only 1 game actually had a Terran as listed to be.
On October 02 2011 13:42 eleaf wrote: The problem is all the maps are in Chinese character. Foreign hosts/players cant read it ... they just simply choose the top one, unfortunately, the map is some one made for fun ...
¨The admins chinese admins/casters hosted all the other game. Expect this one who Strelok hosted.
well if it really comes down to this then that is good to hear. still, i think it is necessary that they double check- but without something like this happening i dont see anything compelling them to go back through the replays and make sure.
unless it is customary for tournament organizers to go back and watch the replays of all the games played after they are played?
Oh come on.. You don't want to make drama out of this do you? Do you really think Strelok, of all people, the nicest guy in E-sports (Along with WhiteRa and Jinro) did this on purpose?
If you were a Diablo unique, you would be the Drama Queen of Doom
On October 02 2011 13:51 ELA wrote: Oh come on.. You don't want to make drama out of this do you? Do you really think Strelok, of all people, the nicest guy in E-sports (Along with WhiteRa and Jinro) did this on purpose?
If you were a Diablo unique, you would be the Drama Queen of Doom
I don't think anyone actually said that he did it on purpose... the only thing people have been saying is that they should go back and check all the replays(Not just Streloks) so really, you are the only one talkin about any kind of drama....
On October 02 2011 13:51 ELA wrote: Oh come on.. You don't want to make drama out of this do you? Do you really think Strelok, of all people, the nicest guy in E-sports (Along with WhiteRa and Jinro) did this on purpose?
If you were a Diablo unique, you would be the Drama Queen of Doom
absolutely not. no where do i accuse strelok of doing this on purpose. i don't believe that at all. but if maps like this on the chinese client exists and it is uncertain where and when maps were made during the tourney, wouldn't you agree that it is important that they are checked?
i merely did this to inform. don't you think it would be a bit of a problem if someone potentially won a tourney competing for thousands of dollars while playing on a potentially rigged map?
On October 02 2011 13:51 ELA wrote: Oh come on.. You don't want to make drama out of this do you? Do you really think Strelok, of all people, the nicest guy in E-sports (Along with WhiteRa and Jinro) did this on purpose?
If you were a Diablo unique, you would be the Drama Queen of Doom
No one is accusing of Strelok of cheating. We just want the replays to be released with the correct information and want IEM to acknowledge the problem and that they are looking into it.
Maybe Blizzard should put a warning on the map description when things like this aren't standard, if the map is in the melee category or something? That wouldn't help prevent terrain rigging, but it would stop this stuff from happening... particularly when it's more subtle than 7 range, 15 damage marines.
... although I imagine Blizzard would just suggest tournaments only play on Blizzard maps to prevent this... :p
This seems to be not that big of deal...the game got coincidentally hosted on the wrong map and they called a regame. Sounds like everything is fine in sc2 land.
I don't see any problems with this in the future. I mean, if someone would be using these maps on purpose, either it would get spotted or just avoided by simply referees/admins hosting the map themselves or checking the map out beforehand.
Apparently Strelok hosted this map by himself, not the IEM admins/referees. So i guess mistakes happen, especially if the maps are in Chinese?
Strelok hosted the second game between him and revival and he hosted it on a botched map. All the other games were hosted by IEM admins and were on proper maps.
So if anything you should question Strelok if he wanted to sneak an easy win there.
This was a completely isolated incident. It was silly, it was a mistake, but it was fixed.
Due to China server, Chinese clients (no English clients here at all t.t), and some unfortunate communication errors, we allowed the game to be hosted by a player who accidentally picked a rigged map.
Hmm really? One could argue that this has nothing really to do with rigged maps being used. An accident was made, during the first Stars War tournament with SC2 in China before they had the Chinese client the Chinese hosts accidentally selected the novice version of a map and they just did a re-game. I did not see a thread about rigging maps then. This thread is pretty much blown out of proportion. I know the OP had the best intentions with this thread, but it really isn't needed.
This was a completely isolated incident. It was silly, it was a mistake, but it was fixed.
Due to China server, Chinese clients (no English clients here at all t.t), and some unfortunate communication errors, we allowed the game to be hosted by a player who accidentally picked a rigged map.
It won't happen again.
The game was replayed, and all is well.
Please close this thread. Its just inflammatory.
mistakes happen and personally im over it and i do think this was obviously isolated but asking to close this is like covering things up
Would it be possible for someone to publish ballsed up versions of maps with the exact same name as the unballsed versions or are they appended automatically to avoid this?
I'm more concerned about that rigged map than the whole tournament itself... Why would someone make a map like this ? Even worse, rename it to IEM (sorry if that isn't the case, haven't verified if they really renamed it) ? Reminds me of a map created by a player in order to have a slight advantage over a different race... It was on BW. And it was renamed exactly like some legit ladder map or something.
Hope we won't see another incident like this T___________T
On October 02 2011 17:56 RaiZ wrote: I'm more concerned about that rigged map than the whole tournament itself... Why would someone make a map like this ? Even worse, rename it to IEM (sorry if that isn't the case, haven't verified if they really renamed it) ? Reminds me of a map created by a player in order to have a slight advantage over a different race... It was on BW. And it was renamed exactly like some legit ladder map or something.
Hope we won't see another incident like this T___________T
More subtle versions of this would have been to change mana regeneration since they aren't shown. A slight change from 0.565x to 0.60 would be less noticeable (not listed during the game). Sight range could be modified without anyone knowing (not listed during the game). Unit acceleration is also hidden (not listed during the game). Movement speeds are also rounded/doesn't show actual value ( could be increased by 0.001 to 0.009 since 2.805 and 2.809 = 2.81 )
This was a completely isolated incident. It was silly, it was a mistake, but it was fixed.
Due to China server, Chinese clients (no English clients here at all t.t), and some unfortunate communication errors, we allowed the game to be hosted by a player who accidentally picked a rigged map.
It won't happen again.
The game was replayed, and all is well.
Please close this thread. Its just inflammatory.
Quoting because nobody is reading the thread, mods should close.
On October 02 2011 18:16 nalgene wrote: More subtle versions of this would have been to change mana regeneration since they aren't shown. A slight change from 0.565x to 0.60 would be less noticeable (not listed during the game). Sight range could be modified without anyone knowing (not listed during the game). Unit acceleration is also hidden (not listed during the game). Movement speeds are also rounded/doesn't show actual value ( could be increased by 0.001 to 0.009 since 2.805 and 2.809 = 2.81 )
hm is there any way to even check maps which are "protected" (so can't be opened in editor) for such changes? I mean except for checking it manually by timing it (which can be very hard when it is subtle changes)
If there isn't... it's just a matter of time before some ugly stuff might happen like there was in WC3.
I highly doubt anyone would have used a map like that intentionally to cheat. The difference was too noticeable and easily detected. Strelok just chose a map with a label he could not read.
Even with the English client it is so freaking hard to find the right map. The search function is so bad because it ORs the search keywords rather than ANDs them. Moreover, character names can be used more than once, so what would happen, if someone created rigged maps under the name "GOMTV"? Only Blizzard maps are somewhat distinguishable from the rest.
I like the comfort that maps are hosted by Battle.net. In WC3 you had to make folders for every tournament and download (sometimes just rename) the maps but with the current system something like this was bound to happen sooner or later because it is hard to check the author/rule modifications of the map.
I did not see this game but that is MESSED UP. I hope in the future they can be more official with these kind of things, I can't believe this would happen in a tournament with such a huge prize pool.
But then again, just another step towards making sc2 more legitimate. Even though no one meant it, everyone will be making sure this doesn't happen again I'm sure.
Not the first time Strelok has done something like this. In game one of Slush vs Strelok at EG's masters cup he used blizz's Shattered temple which allowed him to get close spawns against slush. The map was supposed to be MLG shattered temple.
The game starts at 2:30. You can see the map was supposed to be MLG shattered temple during the commentary beforehand.
It obviously isn't as extreme as the fiasco at IEM, however I lost a lot of respect for Strelok after watching EG Masters Cup. Never really liked him since.
Not accusing him of purposely cheating at IEM, but it does seem rather fishy considering what happened at EG Masters Cup.
On October 02 2011 19:03 markin wrote: Not the first time Strelok has done something like this. In game one of Slush vs Strelok at EG's masters cup he used blizz's Shattered temple which allowed him to get close spawns against slush. The map was supposed to be MLG shattered temple.
On October 02 2011 18:29 SinCitta wrote: Even with the English client it is so freaking hard to find the right map. The search function is so bad because it ORs the search keywords rather than ANDs them. Moreover, character names can be used more than once, so what would happen, if someone created rigged maps under the name "GOMTV"? Only Blizzard maps are somewhat distinguishable from the rest.
I like the comfort that maps are hosted by Battle.net. In WC3 you had to make folders for every tournament and download (sometimes just rename) the maps but with the current system something like this was bound to happen sooner or later because it is hard to check the author/rule modifications of the map.
You could even add the crc32 to the file names in Wc3... and compare them if it's the same one or not...( attempt to delete file while in lobby to check if that version is being used )
On October 02 2011 19:03 markin wrote: Not the first time Strelok has done something like this. In game one of Slush vs Strelok at EG's masters cup he used blizz's Shattered temple which allowed him to get close spawns against slush. The map was supposed to be MLG shattered temple.
The game starts at 2:30. You can see the map was supposed to be MLG shattered temple during the commentary beforehand.
It obviously isn't as extreme as the fiasco at IEM, however I lost a lot of respect for Strelok after watching EG Masters Cup. Never really liked him since.
Not accusing him of purposely cheating at IEM, but it does seem rather fishy considering what happened at EG Masters Cup.
Read Mr. Bitter's post. The pick was an accidental mistake using a SC2 client in an unfamiliar circumstance. Don't bring accusatory shit in here, Strelok has been a good player and gm since BW. Cut out the speculation and bad-mouthing.
EPT
