EPTOn August 25 2011 10:19 prOxi.swAMi wrote:
I don't understand the increase in barracks time 60 to 65... anyone?
I don't understand the increase in barracks time 60 to 65... anyone?
That way I can rush you better
Patch 1.4 PTR Notes (updated 9/8) - Page 204
| Forum Index > Closed |
Since this whole topic degenerated into the usual balance flamefest where every topic ends up if unmoderated it's time for it to clean up. Locking this down for a while. Any posts made after my post [page 233] not addressing the changes in this patch directly and containting flames or general balance whine will get banned for at least a week. ~Nyovne There is way too much flaming in this thread right now. Calm down before you post! (Page 271) ~iamke55 | ||
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frontliner2
Netherlands844 Posts
That way I can rush you better | ||
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dbddbddb
Singapore969 Posts
On August 28 2011 22:02 rohanim41 wrote: I personally think this is the biggest strength of terran and the biggest source of their dominance. Mules mine 30 minerals per trip, wich is equivalent to 6 workers and that is really big early game because you have a big income bonus fast, and on equal number of bases/worker, even on full saturated bases, Mules still give another 6 worker advantage per orbital without hurting SCV mining and in very very late game, they can still mine minerals without having worker supply. Edit: Seems that they are equal to a bit over 3 workers since they have a mining time 2.05 time longer than an SCV. That doubled by the fact that terrans have powerful DPS mineral dumping units (Marines and Hellions mainly) makes them very resilient and powerfull. they can Tech and produce as much as their opponent while dumping additionnal minerals into a truckload of marines which are as effective in small numbers then in a massing fashion. easiest way to fix mules: make them have the same priority on mineral patches as normal scvs. so you cant have 10 mules mining on 1 patch at a time etc | ||
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cilinder007
Slovenia7251 Posts
On August 28 2011 22:10 dbddbddb wrote: easiest way to fix mules: make them have the same priority on mineral patches as normal scvs. so you cant have 10 mules mining on 1 patch at a time etc only 1 mule can mine 1 patch at a time.... | ||
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rohanim41
Canada60 Posts
On August 28 2011 22:10 dbddbddb wrote: easiest way to fix mules: make them have the same priority on mineral patches as normal scvs. so you cant have 10 mules mining on 1 patch at a time etc Easy way to fix Mules, do the same strategys as now with mule at 20~25 mins per trip and see how it goes, would make the mule min 40 mins less per usage and would be equal to between 2.5-3 workers instead of 3+ | ||
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R0YAL
United States1768 Posts
On August 28 2011 22:20 rohanim41 wrote: Easy way to fix Mules, do the same strategys as now with mule at 20~25 mins per trip and see how it goes, would make the mule min 40 mins less per usage and would be equal to between 2.5-3 workers instead of 3+ I think that the mule should mine the same amount of minerals as right now however, over a longer period of time. It makes it that much more susceptible to harass. | ||
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Existor
Russian Federation4295 Posts
Any other Mule nerf will give terrans auto-lose vs zergs and protoss. | ||
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Attilanator
United States154 Posts
I mean really, blizzard. | ||
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Zoric
Sweden14 Posts
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ch4ppi
Germany802 Posts
On August 28 2011 22:27 Attilanator wrote: I'm just surprised there's no bunker change. I mean really, blizzard. bunker jokes are getting old arent they  | ||
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SeaSwift
Scotland4486 Posts
On August 28 2011 19:56 Tef wrote: I have a question. It seems getting colossus isn't viable as you will only get one out in time. But do Protosses focus fire the marines or tanks with the collosus? That should have a significant impact if the above is true. Also, why hasn't any Protoss tried to skip the warpgate and build directly from the gateways. You build faster from those, right? And since you don't want to be offensive anyway I don't see why warp gates are that important. Maybe hallucination could be more useful? Protoss generally focus fire the Marines with the Colossus. Unfortunately, Colossus just plain isn't the answer. If you don't expand Terran just contains you and expands at will. If you try to expand AND go fast Colossus then you will have no Gateway army and Banshees will kill your Colossi before they do anything before moving on to your workers etc. There is also a massive timing window before your Colossus comes out when you have invested 700/600 (assuming thermal lance) into nothing of any use where Terran can just march into your base and kill stuff for free. And no, Protoss does not build faster from Gateways. That is a myth, sorry. Hallucination is useful, but once again not the answer, especially if Terran has a Raven with the army. Hallu costs 100/100 and uses up 100 energy per use on your Sentries which you need for Guardian Shield/Force Field, especially seeing as otherwise Marines will kite you and GS cuts Marine DPS by a third. | ||
Plexa
Aotearoa39261 Posts
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ZaaaaaM
Netherlands1828 Posts
On August 28 2011 22:24 Existor wrote: Easy way to fix Mules - decrease max energy from 200 to 100 in Orbital Command. So terran players will be not able to drop a lot mules, if they haven't used energy for a long time. Any other Mule nerf will give terrans auto-lose vs zergs and protoss. I like that idea quite a bit:o except for your last statement which is just insanely ridiculous | ||
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cilinder007
Slovenia7251 Posts
On August 28 2011 22:32 Plexa wrote: Easiest way to 'fix' mules is to accept that they aren't broken -.-; +1 | ||
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R0YAL
United States1768 Posts
On August 28 2011 19:56 Tef wrote: Also, why hasn't any Protoss tried to skip the warpgate and build directly from the gateways. You build faster from those, right? No, thats how it should be but warpgates produce faster. Zealots, Stalkers, HT, DT, build 10 seconds faster Sentry build 5 seconds faster | ||
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SeaSwift
Scotland4486 Posts
On August 28 2011 22:32 Plexa wrote: Easiest way to 'fix' mules is to accept that they aren't broken -.-; Hmm. I know you're the admin and all, but unless there's a decent discussion to be had rather than just baseless assertions like "x is broken" "no x is fine" I'd recommend not posting at all, because the thread will just devolve further. I was quite happy with a number of lengthy posts on the previous page, and although I'm not a mod/whatever on this website I think it would be a shame for the posts to turn into what they were earlier again. I feel that if you look at the situation logically, Lurk is absolutely right. MULEs are essentially an extra 3+ workers mining for the whole game per Orbital minus time for Supply cooldown/Scans. If MULEs were replaced by another mechanic which still just helped Terran keep up with P/Z in the economy (like chrono etc) then the problem would still remain with the 1-1-1. If Terran just produced workers faster every so often they would just leave some behind and continue with the attack as normal. The problem is NOT the MULEs, I would say (and yes, I agree with your statement Plexa just not the way you went about it). The problem is the efficiency of the Terran units, particularly the Marine, and the synergy between them all. Protoss has good unit synergy but to compensate for that Protoss units are individually inefficient the vast majority of the time. I think SCVs need slightly less health or Marines need slightly less DPS. I don't understand why Marines became so much more efficient compared to BW in the first place. | ||
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Midgetman101
United States825 Posts
On August 28 2011 22:42 SeaSwift wrote: Hmm. I know you're the admin and all, but unless there's a decent discussion to be had rather than just baseless assertions like "x is broken" "no x is fine" I'd recommend not posting at all, because the thread will just devolve further. I was quite happy with a number of lengthy posts on the previous page, and although I'm not a mod/whatever on this website I think it would be a shame for the posts to turn into what they were earlier again. I feel that if you look at the situation logically, Lurk is absolutely right. MULEs are essentially an extra 3+ workers mining for the whole game per Orbital minus time for Supply cooldown/Scans. If MULEs were replaced by another mechanic which still just helped Terran keep up with P/Z in the economy (like chrono etc) then the problem would still remain with the 1-1-1. If Terran just produced workers faster every so often they would just leave some behind and continue with the attack as normal. The problem is NOT the MULEs, I would say (and yes, I agree with your statement Plexa just not the way you went about it). The problem is the efficiency of the Terran units, particularly the Marine, and the synergy between them all. Protoss has good unit synergy but to compensate for that Protoss units are individually inefficient the vast majority of the time. I think SCVs need slightly less health or Marines need slightly less DPS. I don't understand why Marines became so much more efficient compared to BW in the first place. Actually, there is nothing wrong with the mule so there is no reason to discuss its balance. Without the mule, terran would be destroyed. It is an important aspect of the terran race and nerfing it in any way will destroy the balance of the game. | ||
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rohanim41
Canada60 Posts
On August 28 2011 22:38 R0YAL wrote: No, thats how it should be but warpgates produce faster. Zealots, Stalkers, HT, DT, build 10 seconds faster Sentry build 5 seconds faster That would be a good idea but not as drastic a change, a 3 base protoss with 15+ WG and 3-4 War prism scattered around would flood incredible amounts of gateway units I think, as much as i love doing this 15-20 gate style, it could be too much. Early game it would be miraculous though, but immortals are gonna help a lot i think, they can now kill marauders more efficiently. it didn't make sense that marauders had more range than marines and that immortals had less range than stalkers, now it doesn't need to expose himself to marine fire, just shift+click on the marauders, macro and when you come back your immortal will have 4 kills and still have some shields left ^_^ | ||
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R0YAL
United States1768 Posts
On August 28 2011 22:42 SeaSwift wrote: Hmm. I know you're the admin and all, but unless there's a decent discussion to be had rather than just baseless assertions like "x is broken" "no x is fine" I'd recommend not posting at all, because the thread will just devolve further. I was quite happy with a number of lengthy posts on the previous page, and although I'm not a mod/whatever on this website I think it would be a shame for the posts to turn into what they were earlier again. I feel that if you look at the situation logically, Lurk is absolutely right. MULEs are essentially an extra 3+ workers mining for the whole game per Orbital minus time for Supply cooldown/Scans. If MULEs were replaced by another mechanic which still just helped Terran keep up with P/Z in the economy (like chrono etc) then the problem would still remain with the 1-1-1. If Terran just produced workers faster every so often they would just leave some behind and continue with the attack as normal. The problem is NOT the MULEs, I would say (and yes, I agree with your statement Plexa just not the way you went about it). The problem is the efficiency of the Terran units, particularly the Marine, and the synergy between them all. Protoss has good unit synergy but to compensate for that Protoss units are individually inefficient the vast majority of the time. I think SCVs need slightly less health or Marines need slightly less DPS. I don't understand why Marines became so much more efficient compared to BW in the first place. You and me both. Zerglings got nerfed hard compared to their bw counterpart. Its much harder in the early game for Zergs in sc2, since Zerglings were so much stronger the Terran had to build up more marines or else he would lose everything for basically nothing. Marines in sc2 don't need to research +1 range, they just have it. Also, units in sc2 squeeze together into a ball so that increases marines dps and reduces the surface area, not to mention stutter-step micro is really good and not hard to pull off. And on top of everything Zerg no longer has creep colonies so they cannot build reactive defenses like they could in bw. Spines take a long time to build, much longer than bunkers. | ||
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R0YAL
United States1768 Posts
On August 28 2011 22:50 rohanim41 wrote: That would be a good idea but not as drastic a change, a 3 base protoss with 15+ WG and 3-4 War prism scattered around would flood incredible amounts of gateway units I think, as much as i love doing this 15-20 gate style, it could be too much. No what I said is how the game is right now lol | ||
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rohanim41
Canada60 Posts
On August 28 2011 22:54 R0YAL wrote: No what I said is how the game is right now lol Haaaa lol misunderstood completely | ||
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