Since this whole topic degenerated into the usual balance flamefest where every topic ends up if unmoderated it's time for it to clean up. Locking this down for a while. Any posts made after my post [page 233] not addressing the changes in this patch directly and containting flames or general balance whine will get banned for at least a week. ~Nyovne
There is way too much flaming in this thread right now. Calm down before you post! (Page 271) ~iamke55
On August 26 2011 05:13 zarepath wrote: Does getting Blue Flame and the +1 attack end up equaling the original blue flame upgrade?
EDIT: Above post... you just quoted yourself for no reason? EDIT 2: nm
ye fucked somewhat up with editing and yeah I think +1 would equal blue flamers..still zerg makes armor etc..
On August 26 2011 05:15 Zanno wrote:
On August 26 2011 05:13 zarepath wrote: Does getting Blue Flame and the +1 attack end up equaling the original blue flame upgrade?
yes, but carapace (an upgrade that all zergs will eventually get) will cancel it out
Terran Vehicle Weapon upgrades only give +1 damage to Hellions. In Patch 1.4, even with all 3 weapon upgrades and Blue Flame, Hellions will still do 2 less damage to Light targets than they did PRE-1.4 with Blue Flame alone. (And -- Obviously the number of hits required to kill something depends on what you're shooting.)
More specifically (in the case of BF vs workers): Patch 1.4 Blue Flame Hellions will do 19 damage to workers. Getting +1 weapon will make that 20 (and the other player getting +1 armor will offset that, etc.).
At EQUAL upgrades on both sides, it will take 3 hits for a BF Hellion to kill workers. But IF the BF Hellion player has MORE weapon upgrades than the other player's armor upgrades, it will take 2 hits for a BF Hellion to kill a worker.
Edit: Unless I'm reading Liquipedia wrong, in which case Hellions get +2 vs Light from each Vehicle Weapon upg. >_>
This is correct. Hellions get +2 versus light for each weapon upgrade. This means that with blue flame and +1 weapons the Hellion will do 21 damage versus light, two-shotting +0 carapace and +1 carapace drones. At +2 weapons and blue flame, hellions will two shot any drone regardless of upgrades.
On August 26 2011 05:36 Kinetik_Inferno wrote:
On August 26 2011 05:30 ArcticRaven wrote:
If a unit provides power, that power is temporarily transferred to a player using Neural Parasite.
Huh ?
No idea. What came to mind was a pylon, but those can't be NP'd
Warp Prisms provide power and can be NP'd.
Wouldn't it be 3-shotting drones because drone regen 1hp (assuming 1 carapace and hellions doing 21 dmg)? Same as snipe vs infestor. More often than not the flames don't hit simultaneously, I'd say it's in fact quite rare for that to happen.
No it won't regen in time. Regen isn't quite instant, you can even kill infestors with 2 snipes for example, if you're fast enough.
Are you positive? Regen was instant in SC1, and the snipes do have to be simultaneous to kill an infestor... if it's even a half second off it won't kill the infestor as I've found out from trying many, many times...
AFAIK it's not actually possible to literally snipe 2x instantly, so the fact that it can work shows that regen isn't quite instant. It's extremely fast, but so are 3 hellions shooting at the same time (may be instant, not sure if the animation is just for show or not).
It's not possible to do 2 things simultaneously in SC2, the events are processed in sequence. So the instant the drone gets hit by the first hellion, it generates 1 hp, then gets hit by the second hellion and survives with 1 hp.
You can try it out as often as you like, you'll always get to the abovementioned result.
As a terran-biased poster, i dont mind the hellion change much, although if they do keep it at +5 damage, they should reduce the cost. Otherwise, +6 or +7 dmg to light would be fine for the same cost imo.
Also, why the barracks change? Any good explanations so far? the only thing that i can really think of is 2 rax TvP and TvZ? Seems like this throws off a lot of timings as well, becuase now our first mule is 5 seconds later =O
Either way, overal, LOVE the patch notes! ESPICIALLY seeker missle and warp prism buffs!!!
On August 26 2011 06:39 FabledIntegral wrote: New change: "Workers are no longer light."
We could then buff back hellions and reapers into a more anti-unit role, and maybe change up phoenix a bit too^^. And who uses ghosts vs workers. Oh wells.
Phoenix are cooler than hellions and reapers combined, so making them shit wouldn't be worth it sorry!
Phoenix 10 + 10 TO WORKERS! :o
On August 26 2011 06:42 Yaotzin wrote: I'm *fairly* certain I've seen full health infestors die to 2 snipes...too lazy to test though so I'll withdraw the statement :p
They don't in ANY feasible game scenario. You're wrong, so I'm glad you've withdrawn the statement.
On August 26 2011 06:42 Yaotzin wrote: I'm *fairly* certain I've seen full health infestors die to 2 snipes...too lazy to test though so I'll withdraw the statement :p
it can but has to be super planned or lucky timing. I wish snipe was 46 dmg.
On August 26 2011 06:41 Haegr9599 wrote: As a terran-biased poster, i dont mind the hellion change much, although if they do keep it at +5 damage, they should reduce the cost. Otherwise, +6 or +7 dmg to light would be fine for the same cost imo.
Also, why the barracks change? Any good explanations so far? the only thing that i can really think of is 2 rax TvP and TvZ? Seems like this throws off a lot of timings as well, becuase now our first mule is 5 seconds later =O
Either way, overal, LOVE the patch notes! ESPICIALLY seeker missle and warp prism buffs!!!
They CANNOT change BF's cost because even with the nerf BF hellions relationship to lings/banelings/marines are unchanged. Reducing BF cost would result in a buffer hellion in those instances. The changes are fine other than the zealot.
Rax change will also be really really bad. Hope it doesn't roll out int he actual patch.
On August 26 2011 06:44 Like a Boss wrote: Rax needed the build time increase, Terran has so many early game pushes that kills the opponent.
Overseers should have gotten this cost decrease months ago.
WHAT early pushes? Any mass bio push 4-8mins into the game will be unaffected by this. Only 2rax will be affected and Zergs (competent ones at least) have learned to deal with 2rax pushes which only work on certain maps and puts the terran quite far behind if it fails.
I'm going to hate playing against proxy gates and just simply chronoed zeal/stalkers now. Don't remind of my OCs either.
When can we expect them to release this patch? Give or take? Is it like a week or maybe a month? Never really knew about a patch before it came before...
On August 26 2011 06:41 Haegr9599 wrote: As a terran-biased poster, i dont mind the hellion change much, although if they do keep it at +5 damage, they should reduce the cost. Otherwise, +6 or +7 dmg to light would be fine for the same cost imo.
Also, why the barracks change? Any good explanations so far? the only thing that i can really think of is 2 rax TvP and TvZ? Seems like this throws off a lot of timings as well, becuase now our first mule is 5 seconds later =O
Either way, overal, LOVE the patch notes! ESPICIALLY seeker missle and warp prism buffs!!!
They CANNOT change BF's cost because even with the nerf BF hellions relationship to lings/banelings/marines are unchanged. Reducing BF cost would result in a buffer hellion in those instances. The changes are fine other than the zealot.
On August 26 2011 06:44 Like a Boss wrote: Rax needed the build time increase, Terran has so many early game pushes that kills the opponent.
Overseers should have gotten this cost decrease months ago.
WHAT early pushes? Any mass bio push 4-8mins into the game will be unaffected by this. Only 2rax will be affected and Zergs (competent ones at least) have learned to deal with 2rax pushes which only work on certain maps and puts the terran quite far behind if it fails.
I'm going to hate playing against proxy gates and just simply chronoed zeal/stalkers now.
Which isn't even remotely feasible. Notice in every single video of it taking two snipes, they've been lined up, move commanded to the same area, then shift queued? If you don't use shift queue move -> snipes it's not humanly possible, I'd like to see someone prove me wrong. At the same time, you can't even use shift commands because you're going to get fungaled before you get htat close, which COMPLETLEY fucks it up.
The 5 seconds added to the rax time is very bad, on Zelnaga terran COULD get 6 pooled now. and it also messes up the OC build timing, now terrans are going to have to wait awile after the 15th scv is done to make a OC, like is this a 2 rax nerf?
blink stalkers wins against 1 rax fe every game on any map.
On August 26 2011 06:50 Marcuz wrote: The 5 seconds added to the rax time is very bad, on Zelnaga terran COULD get 6 pooled now. and it also messes up the OC build timing, now terrans are going to have to wait awile after the 15th scv is done to make a OC, like is this a 2 rax nerf?
blink stalkers wins against 1 rax fe every game on any map.
On August 26 2011 06:50 Marcuz wrote: The 5 seconds added to the rax time is very bad, on Zelnaga terran COULD get 6 pooled now. and it also messes up the OC build timing, now terrans are going to have to wait awile after the 15th scv is done to make a OC, like is this a 2 rax nerf?
1) Protoss can get 6pooled on Xel'Naga, why shouldn't Terran be scared of very early game cheeses?
2) Protoss has to wait a bit for 9pylon, 12gate or 13gate if you pylonscouted.
3) Yes, it helps nerf 2rax. 5 seconds isn't going to destroy a Terran macro game.
On August 26 2011 06:50 Marcuz wrote:blink stalkers wins against 1 rax fe every game on any map.
If you are talking about a 4gate Blink Stalker all-in, yes it should, as should all all-ins which hit at the same time as your opponent doing the greediest thing possible in a standard game.
Essentially the ONLY way to do it, which is the reason why they made this video.
Not saying you should attempt to do that, I was only mentioning it in regard to whether a drone would regen 1hp before 3 hellion shots killed it. Since you can 2 snipe an infestor, clearly damage can be dealt before regen occurs in SC2, unlike in BW. So doing exactly 40hp with 3 hellions *should* kill them, if they fire at once.
EPT
and yeah I think +1 would equal blue flamers..still zerg makes armor etc..
Obviously you'll want to queue up a 3rd snipe in case, but if you get lucky cool!
