EPTTLDR: Its valuable, just make sure you can keep a balanced life and head, think critically about what you want to apply to your life and your new reality and know your priorities.
The PUA community - Page 133
| Forum Index > Closed |
|
thalim90
United States68 Posts
TLDR: Its valuable, just make sure you can keep a balanced life and head, think critically about what you want to apply to your life and your new reality and know your priorities. | ||
|
WombaT
Northern Ireland23792 Posts
On May 07 2012 11:27 sluggaslamoo wrote: Negging is one of the main reasons PUA gets a bad rep. A lot of nice guys just can't grasp the fact that there are specific times when you are better off being a douche, because often that is actually being yourself. Most "nice guys" I've met often poke fun at other guys (breaking someones self esteem), and then go "just kidding" (the damage control part). Yet when they talk to a girl they completely change into nice guy mode and talk like a robot. They think they are being themselves, but they are really not. And when they see other guys acting "normal", the nice guys think hes being an asshole. Negging is a way to imply closeness, friendliness, cockiness, humor all at once. You can verbally be "meanest" to your closest friends, because you both know that you are just having fun and its all cool. Negging is a conscious way to create catalyze that kind of connection, because some kinds of people can't help switching into uber-boring-nice-guy mode. Of course there are different types of negs, some of them are straight up cocky, others less so. EDIT: Actually there's this really good quote I heard from a girl, on the issue of nice guys vs mean guys, and it was "girls don't want assholes, they want nice guys, who know when to be mean". Pretty much this in a nutshell. Your addendum in the end is close to verbatim what my current girlfriend's attitude is, I'm lovely to her most of the time, but if she's being an idiot I can playfully cut her down to size or whatever. I know too many guys who read about negging or whatever, and their brain somehow assimilates that and reconstitutes it and what comes out the other end is 'If I act like a total dick, with no subtlety or humour I'll get chicks'. It really doesn't work that way. I'm speaking as somebody who is a 'natural' negger, it's one of the few social interactions I have down, and one of the few bits of PUA material that I ever use personally. Body language is a lot more important than what you are saying when you are negging most of the time, there was some good advice posted earlier so I shan't really go back there, other than to reiterate the importance of getting your sarcastic/playful smile down correctly. Anyhow, I recall a few pages back somebody was discussing a fail with a foreign girl, I believe in that instance she was German? What do you folks think about the whole approach to foreign women, assuming they speak your tongue with reasonable proficiency? I'm talking as somebody who's done a lot better with foreign girls than 'natives', generally because of a vast but shallow repository of useless information that I possess. I'll tend to know quite a bit about the country of the individuals and can use that a bit to circumvent small talk/routines (which I don't tend to like). I'm mentioning this not as a boast or anything, as I said I prefer/do better with foreign girls precisely because I avoid small talk and other things which make me feel awkward. Iirc the advice re foreigners always seems to be given with the assumption that there's some kind of linguistic barrier so I'm opening the floor for discussion here, as I feel this has been neglected by much of what I have read 1. Intros are a lot easier, especially if you're awkward like myself, there's already something to be discussed, obviously don't go 'oh you're German' in an awkward manne 2. Foreigners, at least in my country tend to be a sure bet to be a bit more interesting than the average bar/club denizen (in my personal experience). They tend to be there for a reason, often as a post-grad student so they're more likely to be smart and good company. This isn't universally true I'm sure, but over in NI we're a relatively low-immigration nation, and those that do come over are often more skilled.r. 3. In my experience, you'd be amazed at how knowing a little bit about their country of origin can help move things along. I got with a girl from Finland after some bizarre conversations, including the 'Winter War' with Russia and this gentleman in particular Simo Hayha TLDR Perhaps the stuff I've been reading is not good or whatever, but most of what I've read about foreign girls seems to be ignoring that they are foreign and just acting as normal, where in my own anecdotal experience I've had more success playing off it. | ||
|
r.Evo
Germany14079 Posts
On May 09 2012 10:31 thalim90 wrote: I've read The Game and have read/watched a lot of material. Honestly, theres a lot of crazy, obsessive and extremist views and behaviors advocated, but, if you have enough experience/knowledge/life experience on the topic and are pretty centered in what you want/need to be happy - you can get A LOT of good out of it. Just filter out what works (1) and (2) does not make you feel uncomfortable in using/applying. If for you it means objectivity through a scientific view and application of the methods as well as search for "The Truth" at whatever cost, so be it. If it means you get to make some girls smile a few times and that makes you happy, so be it. To each our own. Overall, I believe its a solid source of information if you can (1) control yourself, know your wants and needs and aren't afraid of stepping outside your comfort boundaries to possibly expand or limit your perception of yourself and reality and a heap of other valuable insights and (2) consistently APPLY the information. Unless you like to read this type of information for pure entertainment. TLDR: Its valuable, just make sure you can keep a balanced life and head, think critically about what you want to apply to your life and your new reality and know your priorities. That's a post that should be in the OP for any PUA thread ever created. So true. <3 To the foreigner stuff, I felt this being rather easy in the EU because literally everyone speaks at least okayish English. My experience with girls from Italy/France/Spain(rawrrrrr) is that if they don't speak good english I just have to shift even more than usual to bodylanguage, facial expressions, escalation and it actually feels a bit easier than with native girls. Actually not too sure.. hmm... If I compare myself to other pickupping guys I know, then most of the comfort/rapport/attraction I build is non-verbally initially and gets more verbally the more I escalate with the girl. That concept works pretty well for me, even though I'm having a hard time explaining it. Mhm. Need to look into this, not being able to explain shit sucks. PS: Now that I think of it, the reason I feel it's easier with foreign girls might be because I enjoy being overboard with irony/sarcasm and therefore discard girls who don't get that rather quickly. That type of stuff gets lost or toned down rather easily in a foreign language. =P | ||
|
sluggaslamoo
Australia4494 Posts
On May 08 2012 17:18 squattincassanova wrote: Shes an HB11. I didn't want to expose her face. I hope you are being sarcastic. Just from her body she looks like a 4-6 at most. If she's a HB11 then the girls I'd be going for are a fucking 101  If not it answers my hypothesis to why you think a lot of PUA techniques don't work. I just looked some of your vods, its cool that you are showing people what you do, but really the girls you go for are low value, its completely different game. I actually thought you knew you were going for low value girls, but then this post came up and now I'm starting to wonder if you actually think you are going for high value girls. I have to say, gaming low value girls is completely different to high value girls. Its even worse if you mistake a low value girl to be a high value girl because then you start teaching people how to use low value girl tactics on high value girls, which often just won't work. Its even worse when you start arguing against some other peoples knowledge with yours, when your knowledge may not even apply in that context. If I go for a low value girl, I will straight up just go up to her and chat her up. Which is what you seem to be suggesting in this whole thread, direct game, direct approach, standard convo, teasing, flirting, whatever. Hell sometimes I will just straight up walk up to them and kiss them. If I go for a high value girl, I have to be a little more cunning. The wrong approach and you can easily be blown out of your set before you open your mouth "Hey um" -> "I don't want to talk to you!". IOI's become a lot more important in calibration (which I guess why you neglect them, because IOI's don't mean shit if you go for below a 7), micro-managing value starts to become important (again worthless if below a 7), negging, witty remarks, stories, flirting is more situational, you gotta act less like you are hitting on them, holding your frame is harder because the hotter they are, the better they can be at finding a way to smash your confidence, etc. Anyway if it was a joke then that's cool, I take everything back.  Call me a keyboard jockey, I don't really care, I'm just worried that the info you are sharing may not be as valuable as you think it is, because the style you use works on completely different girls to what most guys are looking for.************************************************************************ Also something I've been wondering about for a while. A lot of the modern stuff I read I feel like people get it from gaming lower value girls in easier settings as the demographic has gotten a lot larger, you got a lot of school kids wondering what to do about their crush or that "hot" chick on the train, and things like that. Like its way harder to get blown out by chatting up a checkout chick or your crush at school who probably actually isn't that hot, than in a club. Which is why I think the game has become more oriented around inner-game, and direct-game. Originally it required a ton of determination to just get your foot in the door as a PUA, and you went straight into hitting on 9-10s, now obviously I wasn't around back then so this is just my understanding and correct me if I'm wrong. But the way I see it is that back then, that kind of determination would mean that there isn't that much need to focus on inner-game because they are already prepared to get blown out over and over again trying anything, and the type of girls they were going for were always the cream of the crop. Forums now seem to be littered with "that one chick" problems from people who have much less determination to become good at PUA because its so easy to just find a pua forum and post on it and you get like-minded guys posting information back. Often these are in school, checkout, train settings that require less intense game, and requires heavier focus on just being able to approach and talk. To me, club game feels like chess, which is often why I just don't enjoy it that much. Cafe game is my favorite (but also my worst ironically) because its much more relaxed and you can easily jump into the more fun part of actually getting to talk to each other like real people, but there is still that element of game and its probably one of the least understood forms. So then you have "that one chick" or casual game, in which the target often tends to be way overrated in terms of value, the approacher, who barely ever approached a chick before and doesn't know what to do but thinks she likes him, she probably isn't as gregarious as the kind of girl that would go to a club so is less inclined to use a bitch shield or anti-slut defense. So a lot of stuff feels like its become oriented around hitting on a "hot-chick" who actually isn't a 10, working on inner-game, and standard conversation, a naturals haven. The thing is while PUA has evolved a lot, women haven't changed, I still feel like a lot of the weird old shit still works given the right context. I find IOI's, negging, indirect approach, framing, calibration, DHV, and stuff like that to be useful when it comes to actually hitting on a 9-10 in a club which is where it originated. Its also the kind of stuff that you are unlikely to learn off a natural, and for most would need to actually be learned in an academic kind of way, and then mastered through knowledge and practice. The kind of stuff where it actually makes sense to go for knowledge and go "oohhhh I get it, I never knew you could do that", instead of just something that can be learned by just trying to hit on lots of girls. Just my 2c | ||
|
sluggaslamoo
Australia4494 Posts
On May 09 2012 13:36 Wombat_NI wrote: Pretty much this in a nutshell. Your addendum in the end is close to verbatim what my current girlfriend's attitude is, I'm lovely to her most of the time, but if she's being an idiot I can playfully cut her down to size or whatever. I know too many guys who read about negging or whatever, and their brain somehow assimilates that and reconstitutes it and what comes out the other end is 'If I act like a total dick, with no subtlety or humour I'll get chicks'. It really doesn't work that way. I'm speaking as somebody who is a 'natural' negger, it's one of the few social interactions I have down, and one of the few bits of PUA material that I ever use personally. Body language is a lot more important than what you are saying when you are negging most of the time, there was some good advice posted earlier so I shan't really go back there, other than to reiterate the importance of getting your sarcastic/playful smile down correctly. Anyhow, I recall a few pages back somebody was discussing a fail with a foreign girl, I believe in that instance she was German? What do you folks think about the whole approach to foreign women, assuming they speak your tongue with reasonable proficiency? I'm talking as somebody who's done a lot better with foreign girls than 'natives', generally because of a vast but shallow repository of useless information that I possess. I'll tend to know quite a bit about the country of the individuals and can use that a bit to circumvent small talk/routines (which I don't tend to like). I'm mentioning this not as a boast or anything, as I said I prefer/do better with foreign girls precisely because I avoid small talk and other things which make me feel awkward. Iirc the advice re foreigners always seems to be given with the assumption that there's some kind of linguistic barrier so I'm opening the floor for discussion here, as I feel this has been neglected by much of what I have read 1. Intros are a lot easier, especially if you're awkward like myself, there's already something to be discussed, obviously don't go 'oh you're German' in an awkward manne 2. Foreigners, at least in my country tend to be a sure bet to be a bit more interesting than the average bar/club denizen (in my personal experience). They tend to be there for a reason, often as a post-grad student so they're more likely to be smart and good company. This isn't universally true I'm sure, but over in NI we're a relatively low-immigration nation, and those that do come over are often more skilled.r. 3. In my experience, you'd be amazed at how knowing a little bit about their country of origin can help move things along. I got with a girl from Finland after some bizarre conversations, including the 'Winter War' with Russia and this gentleman in particular Simo Hayha TLDR Perhaps the stuff I've been reading is not good or whatever, but most of what I've read about foreign girls seems to be ignoring that they are foreign and just acting as normal, where in my own anecdotal experience I've had more success playing off it. I totally agree on all 3 points with the foreign issue. If you step a couple of pages back I talk about a blonde british girl who I was having a convo with in a club, and the clicking point was when I started talking about different accents in her own country, but also opening was a lot easier, and thinking of interesting things to say was a lot easier. I think its true for me as well, when a foreigner starts talking about Australia/Japan (I'm half japanese half australian), I tend to get way more into the conversation. The other thing is it hits key fundamentals, differentiating yourself from the rest, as well as compatibility with her "tribe", both are attractive traits. Although I can see why some people think you should talk about something else instead of talk about her country. You are essentially walking a tight rope because you can say something really ignorant (something Americans are stereotyped to be very good at doing), and blow yourself out. So you would need to make sure that you really know what you are talking about, but really I've almost never had a problem with this. Like I can see someone opening with "so are you from Europe", "No I'm from Australia, good bye". Probably the same thing could happen with Canadians/Americans, Irish/Scottish, Wales/English, etc. Its probs best not to open in that specific way. Here it is: Last time at a bar, I was over-hearing a really pretty but short blonde british girl, and so I reversed my seat up to her table, rested my head on my hand, and waited for her to stop talking and look at me. She ignored me and kept talking, I knew then if I would have said something she would have told me to go away, so I went back and started talking to my friends. Later her other friend sits down and I go back to the table, and I ask her friend "me and my friend were wondering what accent she has", and she says she has a british accent. Then the blonde girl intervenes wondering what we are talking about, then I go "we were wondering what accent you have", and she goes british, I'm like, "yeah duh, but like which city?". She told me she used to live in london for a while and that's where her accent came from, I'm like "ohhhh I was guessing it was more of a manchester accent?", she shook her head "nooo way!" in a comical fashion which showed me that she seemed at least interested in the convo, me: "yeah because I know that in england different cities have completely different accents, like liverpool goes 'liverpuddle' and stuff". And she's like "nah liverpool is like LIVERPOOOOOL!!!". Etc. | ||
|
WombaT
Northern Ireland23792 Posts
On May 09 2012 16:54 sluggaslamoo wrote: I totally agree on all 3 points with the foreign issue. If you step a couple of pages back I talk about a blonde british girl who I was having a convo with in a club, and the clicking point was when I started talking about different accents in her own country, but also opening was a lot easier, and thinking of interesting things to say was a lot easier. I think its true for me as well, when a foreigner starts talking about Australia/Japan (I'm half japanese half australian), I tend to get way more into the conversation. The other thing is it hits key fundamentals, differentiating yourself from the rest, as well as compatibility with her "tribe", both are attractive traits. Although I can see why some people think you should talk about something else instead of talk about her country. You are essentially walking a tight rope because you can say something really ignorant (something Americans are stereotyped to be very good at doing), and blow yourself out. So you would need to make sure that you really know what you are talking about, but really I've almost never had a problem with this. Like I can see someone opening with "so are you from Europe", "No I'm from Australia, good bye". Probably the same thing could happen with Canadians/Americans, Irish/Scottish, Wales/English, etc. Its probs best not to open in that specific way. Here it is: Oh yeah it can backfire if you get things woefully wrong, so stick to little tidbits of thing that they don't expect you to know, without overextending yourself. Or you can deliberately leave out things to be half-correct and have them follow-up, a good example being you forcing engagement by leaving room for her to do the 'LIVERPELLLLL' accent. From personal memory, in addition to the Finnish girl who I ended up dating for a good period of time. -Some chick from Latvia who was genuinely impressed that I knew the capital city was called Riga. Nothing came of this as I had to go home, but was progressing nicely. -A Bulgarian girl who was similarly impressed when I said 'Does it not annoy you that all anyone here probably knows Bulgaria for is Dmitar Berbatov who plays for United, and we don't even pronounce his name right?' -A Dutch girl who I'm still in touch with, I think we discussed the plus points of living in Leiden, of which all I knew was due to an old WC3 clanmate but that went pretty well. There are more but you get the idea. I figure they probably are either vaguely impressed that you know a little bit more than your peers, or are happier to engage you in conversation because you're not constantly asking them asinine questions and you're engaging a bit more of a back-and-forth dynamic. It's certainly not that I've got good game anyhow! | ||
|
SeXyBaCk
Switzerland174 Posts
On May 09 2012 16:44 sluggaslamoo wrote: If I go for a high value girl, I have to be a little more cunning. The wrong approach and you can easily be blown out of your set before you open your mouth "Hey um" -> "I don't want to talk to you!". IOI's become a lot more important in calibration (which I guess why you neglect them, because IOI's don't mean shit if you go for below a 7), micro-managing value starts to become important (again worthless if below a 7), negging, witty remarks, stories, flirting is more situational, you gotta act less like you are hitting on them, holding your frame is harder because the hotter they are, the better they can be at finding a way to smash your confidence, etc. Do you even like women? From what you describe you seem to more regard them as opponents/competitors. I'm with you in regard to: very attractive, intelligent women don't go out alone. They either go with friends or boyfriends. So yes, to get their attention you might have to be a bit of a clown (which I can see Evo being great at with his little skits in response to rejection/total lack of self worth?). Does playing the clown and being an entertainer get you the woman? Nah. It'll just get you some attention from the attractive woman. Maybe you can join their group and get to know them that way, you might as well be the subtle guy who befriends them otherwise. But I guess if you want to be the great entertainer at the club, go for it. But come to terms with just being a good time to them and their friends. Personally I'm no clown. I prefer going out with my friends, laugh, have fun, if I met someone, through mutual friends or just talking at the bar, so be it. But again, in order to that you have to be a social person, build up a social circle, have, make and maintain friendships etc. At the end of the day it comes to down to what a woman wants in the 18-28 age bracket, it's a buyers market mostly and the women are buying. After 30 the tides turn, men become more settled, have money, status and suddenly the man is the eligible bachelor and women are left to chase. Women go out to clubs and bars to hook up and meet men and play. Find those women if casual sex is what you want. But don't succumb to the illusion that you can talk a model-lookalike away from her boyfriend, who quite frankly is just better than you in every respect. That is why "choose your target demographics is the best advice that can be administered. You can't win a woman's affection/heart by making funny conversation. You gotta actually be an attractive guy. If you're not, work on that, instead of wasting your time with neg and other PUA theory. Finally, what is it with asian guys obsession with white blonde women? Why do asian men regard white tall blonde women to have higher value than a short asian woman? Explain it to me. I really think pop culture has hurt asian men the most of all in regard to piling on insecurities. there's half a billion women out there in your age group, all of them unique, a lot of them beautiful, most of them sexually charged. What are you doing walking around saying "oh, you look like you're from sweden". That's pathetic. You're making your own life harder by holding onto some belief that blonde women are somehow better. | ||
|
squattincassanova
United States650 Posts
On May 09 2012 16:44 sluggaslamoo wrote: I hope you are being sarcastic. Just from her body she looks like a 4-6 at most. If she's a HB11 then the girls I'd be going for are a fucking 101 Ouch, you're hurting my inner game bro! right one ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/Xnd3K.jpg) Even if she was a 6, just remember, a 6 in the bed is better than a 10 in the head | ||
|
r.Evo
Germany14079 Posts
On May 09 2012 18:19 SeXyBaCk wrote: I'm with you in regard to: very attractive, intelligent women don't go out alone. They either go with friends or boyfriends. So yes, to get their attention you might have to be a bit of a clown (which I can see Evo being great at with his little skits in response to rejection/total lack of self worth?). Does playing the clown and being an entertainer get you the woman? Nah. It'll just get you some attention from the attractive woman. Maybe you can join their group and get to know them that way, you might as well be the subtle guy who befriends them otherwise. Haha. Yeah, well said. There is very, very fine line between entertaining the girls and entertaining yourself. Usually when I do shit that's over the top it conveys things like "I'm having fun", "I enjoy having fun with you" but also "I can have the same fun with anyone else in this room". For me it is important to properly convey to people who I'd like to hang out with that I'm someone who is "Just a cool guy to hang out with" myself. This allows me to have a solid basis for strong viewpoints, for breaking or deepening rapport just as I see fit at that specific moment. It's also my way of dealing with obstacles, like, they're not gonna be in my way if they don't feel the need to protect their friend from me. Same for shittests. If I'm cool to all the women and a bit flirty with all of them I'm going to get way less shit-tests than someone who is seen as an "intruder" without any other connections. From "Cool guy to hang out with" to "Guy I'm gonna fuck tonight" is a smaller step than most people perceive it to be. Attraction is there, comfort/rapport is there, basic kino is there... all that's missing is isolation, escalation and not letting your frame go boom in case she has some doubts about it. so tl;dr for me is kinda building all the important shit under her radar and following through with frame/escalation. Obviously the longer the "Oh, he's a cool guy" period goes the stronger and more decisive the followthrough has to be. In your typical club/going out setting that time is short enough to have no influence at all, but it's still my preferred method for social circly type of stuff since it keeps your "public image" nice and clean. =P | ||
|
NDDseer
Australia204 Posts
| ||
|
sluggaslamoo
Australia4494 Posts
On May 09 2012 18:19 SeXyBaCk wrote: Do you even like women? From what you describe you seem to more regard them as opponents/competitors. I admit, that kind of environment does cause my competitive side of me to dominate, which is why I don't like gaming in clubs and prefer dates and cafe game. If you've ever tried trying to hit on the hottest girls in the club, often (not all the time), it can feel like you are playing chess. At the end of the day it comes to down to what a woman wants in the 18-28 age bracket, it's a buyers market mostly and the women are buying. After 30 the tides turn, men become more settled, have money, status and suddenly the man is the eligible bachelor and women are left to chase. Women go out to clubs and bars to hook up and meet men and play. Find those women if casual sex is what you want. But don't succumb to the illusion that you can talk a model-lookalike away from her boyfriend, who quite frankly is just better than you in every respect. That is why "choose your target demographics is the best advice that can be administered. I understand the fact you pointed out at the beginning of this, but I'm really confused at what you are trying to get at. I will say this, often the girls who say they have a boyfriend, say it to get rid of you, not because they have a boyfriend. And if you turn out to be better than her boyfriend, she just won't mention it, happened to me quite a few times (without me knowing of course until the end). You can't win a woman's affection/heart by making funny conversation. You gotta actually be an attractive guy. If you're not, work on that, instead of wasting your time with neg and other PUA theory. Not sure if this is specifically targetted at me, do you mean looks? I don't think I have to work on my looks anywhere near as much as other forms, I've even been approached quite a few times, clubs, bars, cafes, you name it. When you are good looking, girls also expect you to be charming, my personality was completely in-congruent with my looks and that was my problem, and DLV can blow off initial attraction really fast, I used to be really good at that. I've seen average looking people get one night stands just by being funny. Also your statement doesn't make a lot of sense when you consider the difference between female and male attraction. Wit is an attraction switch for a girl, where as its not going to be for a guy. Guys don't find women attractive because they are funny, but the opposite is the case for women. Remember, attraction switches for Women come from Survivability value in guys. Physical fitness, Intelligence, Achievements, Goal Setting, Strong Personality, Leadership, are all attractive. Attraction switches for guys come from Replication value in women. Youth (Blonde hair), Clear Eyes, Body Shape (hour glass body), Athletic (having nice legs). There also is the mutual attraction switches which is to do with tribal mentalities. Like girls wanting to have a metal-head boyfriend, this is due to the girl wanting a guy from a tribe she wants to belong to, or liking foreigners. Some people get annoyed when people go all sciency n shit, but I think there is importance in knowing the psychological and biological aspects of attraction. Sometimes there will be some crossover, some girls like effeminate guys, its very rare to have the complete opposite though. For example, the effeminate guy, might also be a pop singer (achievements, leadership, strong personality). Attraction often has little effect when you are the approacher, when a girl uses the "I have a boyfriend card", she doesn't do it because she has a boyfriend, she does it because she doesn't wanna come off like a slut to her friends, and she's so used to doing it, that when you get past it, "Yes" really means "YES FINALLY". Attraction though has an effect in that, sometimes girls will come to you, or just totally eye-fuck you, or beckon you to approach them, but if you are picky, its going to be the same old for everyone. Finally, what is it with asian guys obsession with white blonde women? Why do asian men regard white tall blonde women to have higher value than a short asian woman? Explain it to me. I really think pop culture has hurt asian men the most of all in regard to piling on insecurities. there's half a billion women out there in your age group, all of them unique, a lot of them beautiful, most of them sexually charged. What are you doing walking around saying "oh, you look like you're from sweden". That's pathetic. You're making your own life harder by holding onto some belief that blonde women are somehow better. Pop culture has almost nothing to do with it. Attraction is biological, if asians like blondes, then its because of biological factors that are inherent in asian genes, not because of TV shows. Which makes sense when you realise people are more likely to be attracted to foreigners. Television can't make me like a certain type of girl, it can only advertise a certain girl to me, which makes me like her for her attractive qualities. Also most hot asians only come from asia, and I don't live in asia, so I'm unlikely going to get into a situation where I can hit on them, or I just don't speak their language anyway . Seriously have you ever seen anyone remotely close to as hot as Lee Eun Hye or Hwang Mi Hee in a western district? Maybe once in my whole life.If this is specifically targetted at me. Well I did have sex with a Japanese exchange student in my car like a few weeks ago but anyway . I'm gonna brag a bit but just to make a point. I really don't learn anything from gaming asian girls because I'm half, and asian girls have this odd fetish for halfies.Google Lee Min Ho, that's what I look like, when I went to a Japanese high school, no shit, I had girls staring at me from outside the classroom and then screaming at me when I looked at them. I don't have to try very hard, so there is no point talking about what I learned when I hit on an asian chick because its not gonna work for anyone else. Unless I wanna make my own label "halfie game" ./brag | ||
|
sluggaslamoo
Australia4494 Posts
On May 09 2012 20:16 NDDseer wrote: Has anybody ever heard of NLP, and/or knows any good (free) resources for finding out more about it? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k_oUDev1rME http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Selv87dLX2k&feature=related This is something I've always wanted to learn about. r.Evo knows a bit about it, I'm sure he can answer that. | ||
|
TheKwas
Iceland372 Posts
Pop culture has almost nothing to do with it. Attraction is biological, if asians like blondes, then its because of biological factors that are inherent in asian genes, not because of TV shows. Which makes sense when you realise people are more likely to be attracted to foreigners. Television can't make me like a certain type of girl, it can only advertise a certain girl to me, which makes me like her for her attractive qualities. You undermine your entire credibility as a knowledgeable person with this statement. Attraction is a combination of hardwired factors and cultural influence. You can see the evolution of different standards of beauty throughout history (look at any renaissance painting), and that was all influenced by culture. Asian preference for many white features is certainly heavily influenced by their pop-culture. | ||
|
sluggaslamoo
Australia4494 Posts
On May 09 2012 20:43 TheKwas wrote: You undermine your entire credibility as a knowledgeable person with this statement. Attraction is a combination of hardwired factors and cultural influence. You can see the evolution of different standards of beauty throughout history (look at any renaissance painting), and that was all influenced by culture. Asian preference for many white features is certainly heavily influenced by their pop-culture. Maybe my credibility in this area. I'm more likely to listen to an asian person (or me) on this than a white person. But if there is a study to prove me wrong then please let me know, I'd be happy to concede that point. The statement came across as telling me why I like something, do I like it because of pop culture, or because its hard-wired? I would say my interest in certain kinds of women has almost nothing to do with pop-culture, just like it doesn't determine what foods I like. Not to sound racist, but I will never ever be attracted to african-american women, but TV has a lot of african-american women. Tall and blonde is seen as universally attractive, because they are both attractive traits in general, which we are all hard-wired to be attracted to. I'm pretty sure if we got Britney Spears and warped her back into the 18th century, she would also be hot there too. A lot of people think that women have gotten better looking as time has gone on. In the renaissance era, maybe that was the best they had. I think pop culture follows what people like, pop culture doesn't force people to like it. | ||
|
r.Evo
Germany14079 Posts
The big, big problem with NLP is that there really is no good common educational standard when it comes to what material is solid or not. This in return results in a lot of bullshit that's being spread around for profit. Personally I recommend doublechecking what material you're reading and finding out if it's really applicable in practice. For me NLP is an awesome and great toolkit, the people I met who see it as a way of life or religion are, while sometimes competent, usually not the people you want to learn the general mindset from. I would recommend making an official course at one point (pick a trainer/organisation you like. I wouldn't say that a "formal" training is really required unless you want to turn it into a job, personally I learned most of it during practice and a lot of the concepts I learned from NLP were more like "Oh, I already know that but I would have never explained it that way" so I kinda did it more to get that piece of paper. =P If you want to hear it in a nutshell, then NLP deals with making unconscious communicational processes consciously available. Whether this includes speech patterns, bodylanguage, facial expressions or anything really that gives us little clues as to what is really going on when interacting with ourselves or other human beings doesn't really matter. In a specific pickup context I found that the actual "techniques" are mostly icing on the cake. Kind of like the way it is awesome to know about acupuncture if you do martial arts, but it won't help you a lot if you're just starting out. I honestly wouldn't bother because even the simple stuff (e.g. basic anchoring. reframing or eye-clues) is more likely to confuse or irritate instead of help you in the beginning. Also keep in mind that the basis of NLP is pretty much "Let's find out WHY some people can do xy with other people better than others", so pretty much all of it's basic assumptions, theories and techniques are "stolen" from people who do well in certain areas. Where I see it being useful is when you have someone around who is experienced with it and uses it to push you out of your comfort zone / to reframe certain things and stuff like that, but from experience, once again, it won't help you getting to know hot girls quickly. It's definitly no short-cut as e.g. the whole speed seduction crap suggests. ("Crap" as in "It doesn't work as easy as it seems" not as in "It doesn't work at all") As for resources I could give you some books and videos in German (for the regular German lurkers: Alexa Mohl - Der Zauberlehrling I+II / videos from Chris Mulzer) I'd suggest but that won't really be helpful. When it comes to NLP especially I'd always recommend reading / watching stuff in your mothertongue since a lot of it can be hard to translate. From what I've read so far I am NOT a big fanboy of the original works from Bandler/Grinder, but more of the books from their students or the books from the people they based their things on. Something that helped me a fuckload for coaching (and pickup when it comes to story telling) is "Seminars, Workshops and Lectures of Milton H. Erickson" Volume 1-4, but I'm a big sucker for Ericksons work in general. His stuff won't be of much interest to you if you're just in it for pickup. =P tl;dr: It's a great toolset once youre solid at pickup and want to refine yourself further in some specific areas, but not that great for beginners. For your personal life it can help you a lot, but you have to be aware of the nutcases you might meet in the process. =P Also big thing to note is that everything NLP teaches comes from observing what happens between people when they communicate, it just sometimes looks like "magic" (hint: Mr Brown) because it's mostly about unconscious things no one ever asks questions about. | ||
|
NDDseer
Australia204 Posts
On May 09 2012 20:51 r.Evo wrote: As a "formal" education I got my NLP master from kikidan and I'm obviously using most of the stuff on a daily basis, both personally and for my coachings. The big, big problem with NLP is that there really is no good common educational standard when it comes to what material is solid or not. This in return results in a lot of bullshit that's being spread around for profit. Personally I recommend doublechecking what material you're reading and finding out if it's really applicable in practice. For me NLP is an awesome and great toolkit, the people I met who see it as a way of life or religion are, while sometimes competent, usually not the people you want to learn the general mindset from. I would recommend making an official course at one point (pick a trainer/organisation you like. I wouldn't say that a "formal" training is really required unless you want to turn it into a job, personally I learned most of it during practice and a lot of the concepts I learned from NLP were more like "Oh, I already know that but I would have never explained it that way" so I kinda did it more to get that piece of paper. =P If it's so useful that you use it on a daily basis, and if most of the core concepts are more of a "oh, I never would have said it that way, now I'm consciously aware of that I can apply it" realization than a "Wow, I'd never thought of that", could you give a very brief description of a couple of the core concepts, with an example or two as to its potential use. Here's my attempt at what I'm asking for, using my own interpretation of the videos I linked above. Anchoring: Making an emphatic gesture while saying something, so that that concept/emotion/idea becomes linked with the gesture. That gesture can later be used to recall the concept/emotion/idea. Especially note, later use of the gestures can be linked togethor to create a chain of ideas (a transition). For example, Derren indicates with his right hand to the right side when he says "Now" and right hand to the left side when he says "Past" (1:58), and later recalls this to indicate (5:30) the movement of this "line" the girl heard in the past, to what he is about to say (... they are "the same") Also can be applied with contact with a person, for example touching someone on the arm right as they burst into laughter associates your touch with the positive feelings they just experienced. Close enough? | ||
|
SeXyBaCk
Switzerland174 Posts
[B]On May 09 2012 20:32 sluggaslamoo wrote: Wit is an attraction switch for a girl, where as its not going to be for a guy. Guys don't find women attractive because they are funny, but the opposite is the case for women. Remember, attraction switches for Women come from Survivability value in guys. Physical fitness, Intelligence, Achievements, Goal Setting, Strong Personality, Leadership, are all attractive. Attraction switches for guys come from Replication value in women. Youth (Blonde hair), Clear Eyes, Body Shape (hour glass body), Athletic (having nice legs). There also is the mutual attraction switches which is to do with tribal mentalities. Like girls wanting to have a metal-head boyfriend, this is due to the girl wanting a guy from a tribe she wants to belong to, or liking foreigners. Some people get annoyed when people go all sciency n shit, but I think there is importance in knowing the psychological and biological aspects of attraction. My comments weren't addressed to you in particular, bar the first one. To clarify...I meant the marriage material girls that actually do have serious boyfriends ... you're going to have a hard time even getting them to see you as another sexual human being. Yes, women often claim to have boyfriends to get rid of you, but honestly, when that comes out, they're not interested anymore, so you might as well take it for it's worth, unless it's clearly said in a flirting manner. I've had attractive girlfriends all my life and never once has one left me because they met some hilarious guy in a club. I didn't advise to just improve your looks, but certainly, everyone should make the best out of what they have when it comes to dating. I meant work on becoming an attractive person all round, someone that has goals and direction, passion - be it for their career or something else - style, takes good care of themself, have a large social circle, experience stuff so you actually have something to talk about etc. It just comes down to it's really hard to fake being a cool and attractive person for longer than 10-15 minutes, and it's nigh impossible to fake it for more than a week. I don't know about you but I find women that make me laugh attractive. Am I right to understand the attraction switch as a switch that can be flipped and switches attraction on? that doesn't sound like a very 'sciency' term to me. Actually it just sounds like something from a PUA book, the whole paragraph that you quoted. It's not in Gray's anatomy is it (the book, not the show), I don't recall seeing any switches in a woman's body or mind? I'm not trying to mock you but I find it staggering how deep you're into the PUA that you rattle down glorified PUA theory as scientific facts without even noticing. Most of it is common sense of course, yes we're all attracted to beautiful people - shocker. But honestly, it seems pretty obvious that we all attracted to a number different character traits. We men are not innately/genetically encoded to be attracted to this this and that, nor are women. I rarely doubt asian/indian men are genetically attracted to blondes. For thousands of years they didn't see any, in evolutionary terms it makes no sense. Personally I know I'm not physically attracted to black women unless they have physical frame is more like that of asian or european women. From all the women I've been with, I know they weren't particularly interested in dating outside of their race. I wasn't claiming it was all down to pop culture for asian men, I'm just curious why this would be. Every time I read anything related to PUA there's some indian or asian guy there who has racial insecurities and for some reason just wants to get with a blonde woman no matter what. It's like there are two classes of women for them, blonde and other women. I wasn't suggesting you Slug felt this way about blonde women, it was just something I wanted to put out there for everyone to give their ideas on. | ||
|
NDDseer
Australia204 Posts
| ||
|
sunprince
United States2258 Posts
On May 09 2012 20:51 r.Evo wrote: It's a great toolset once youre solid at pickup and want to refine yourself further in some specific areas, but not that great for beginners. For your personal life it can help you a lot, but you have to be aware of the nutcases you might meet in the process. =P Also big thing to note is that everything NLP teaches comes from observing what happens between people when they communicate, it just sometimes looks like "magic" (hint: Mr Brown) because it's mostly about unconscious things no one ever asks questions about. NLP is a joke. It's based on pseudoscience that was debunked decades ago. It "works" just like hypnosis does: it uses social compliance and trickery to allow you to manipulate easily suggestible people, and only those gullible people. NLP is about as effective as bad Internet ads that put random words in ALL CAPS to try to get you to buy into a scam. If NLP works on a girl, then you should be embarassed from a Darwninan perspective to be having sex with someone that gullible, and you didn't need to study a pseudoscience to seduce her anyway. Stick to studying real game concepts that are actually validated by science. On May 09 2012 20:51 r.Evo wrote: Kind of like the way it is awesome to know about acupuncture if you do martial arts, but it won't help you a lot if you're just starting out. As an amateur mixed martial artist, I'd also like to point out that this is complete bullshido. Any effect that acupuncture has is due to the placebo effect; empirical studies have found that sham acupuncture (sticking needles into random places) has the same effect as acupuncture that is "properly" performed. I train at multiple world-class MMA gyms, and I don't know any serious fighter who uses acupuncture, because it's worthless. Nor will you find acupuncture use among any of the top fighters in legitimate competitive martial arts (MMA, wrestling, BJJ, judo, Muay Thai, etc) or serious military systems (Army combatives, MCMAP, Krav Maga, Sambo, etc). Acupuncture has absolutely nothing to do with martial arts, except in bad movies. | ||
|
RageBot
Israel1530 Posts
On May 07 2012 12:59 squattincassanova wrote: X2 Mystery Method / Venutian Arts was written by Mystery 1. For people like Mystery (autistic; he uses IOIs and DHVs as rules because he cant function like a normal person) 2. For venues where Mystery goes (Exclusive Hollywood clubs with people / celebrities who dress weird) 3. For girls that Mystery likes (HB10 hot club girls) This is why people don't realize that certain elements of game are CONTEXT dependent. This is why you don't fucking go to a mall with mascara and a TOP HAT, negging average bitches, being all weird and shit. Thats the problem with PUA lairs. Its weird people leading weird people. The LINES, TACTICS, ROUTINES don't override being normal, funny, and not weird. Being WEIRD is the single handedly the biggest factor in killing your changes with women. And these guys run around with routines and tactics but over an aura of weirdness. This is why hanging out with naturals is SO important. These guys have been around for thousands of years and basically, they get laid and they are shown and proven to work. Why is it important? Because you can mirror them and you learn their sub communication and mentality that you just can't learn by only hanging with other PUAs. Why do you think naturals can break so many rules that are dogmatic in PU yet they still get laid? They have very good fundamentals and it over rides a lot of rules. A natural can lean in, hold their drinks in front of their chest, tell self deprecating stories and still pull. You learn basically the following when hanging out with naturals: 1. humor 2. good body language 3. its okay to hit on girls mentality. "No shame in the game!" haha 4. how to be chill 5. how to be normal and not weird 6. dominance 7. teasing Now, you shouldn't only hang with naturals because they won't be able to break down a lot of principles in game such as qualification, and comfort, and blah blah blah. You should still read materials and hang out with other PUAs better than you. You basically need both. But if you NEVER hang out with naturals, you are missing out a lot because there is just no where else to mirror and imitate their behaviors. Dude, Mystery isn't autistic, he's narcissistic. | ||
| ||
