EPTWhen playing vs Z styles that don't involve mutas, drops while macroing is such a effective way to increase your push potential. firstly the damage it does directly, but additionally it provides distraction and his multitasking against yours. When playing vs z styles that include mutalisks, dropping with your push is better. first while playing zone control during a push, you'll clear spotting overlords lings and creep, making your drop unexpected, and you can use them for gaining more control: for instance if you were to be pushing a zerg's third, and you drop the mineral line while sieging up at or near the entrance, he react to it, and this is an opportune time o move up tanks, as his lings/ mutas wil be cleaning up or chasing the drop away. This is also a great opportunity to clear a lot of creep, which also makes terran pushes a lot more scary.
How to play Terran v Zerg as Terran atm ? Masters - Page 4
| Forum Index > Closed |
|
KhAmun
United States1005 Posts
When playing vs Z styles that don't involve mutas, drops while macroing is such a effective way to increase your push potential. firstly the damage it does directly, but additionally it provides distraction and his multitasking against yours. When playing vs z styles that include mutalisks, dropping with your push is better. first while playing zone control during a push, you'll clear spotting overlords lings and creep, making your drop unexpected, and you can use them for gaining more control: for instance if you were to be pushing a zerg's third, and you drop the mineral line while sieging up at or near the entrance, he react to it, and this is an opportune time o move up tanks, as his lings/ mutas wil be cleaning up or chasing the drop away. This is also a great opportunity to clear a lot of creep, which also makes terran pushes a lot more scary. | ||
|
lorkac
United States2297 Posts
You do a big push when his 3rd is finished but before he drones up. You do a big push when he starts morphing his lair. The reasons for this are simple and I'm sure you already know. Both are big investments on things that don't shoot back. So what's the hard part? If you attack him while he's making his lair, but he already has a third--you die. If you attack him while he's making a third but he's already in Lair tech--you die. If you attack him before his 3rd base is finished--you won't deal any lasting damage. If you attack him when his lair is more than halfway finished--you won't deal any relevant damage. How do you know when these things are happening and what order it is that they are happening? Scout often, attack often, deny map control from the zerg, apply real and fake pressure constantly to the point that the moment he sees dudes leaving your base he starts making defenses because he is just not sure if an attack is coming or not. These things will delay both the third and the lair. Then you scout! scout! scout! Make sure you check the other bases constantly as well as checking his hatcheries constantly. When you see him start a third/lair--that's when you start gathering your forces and marching across the map. By the time you get there, the zerg player should be at his weakest. What build order should you use? Doesn't really matter. What unit composition should you use? Doesn't really matter. What exact timings should you use? Doesn't really matter. Those are all things that are metagame dependent. If you focus on build order wins then you will immediately start losing once the metagame shifts. If you focus on unit composition wins--you will automatically lose to a smart high level player. If you focus on exact timings then you will lose to the high level players who play mind games with you. Those players who hide tech, does fake pressure, fake expansions, etc... Those players will beat you because they will be better than you. Learn to scout. Learn to harass. Learn to set your timings on what your opponents do--not the clock above your minimap. | ||
|
Dymeter
Macedonia74 Posts
Anyways my go-to tactic vs zerg is a 2rax-Expand (if hatch-first, I bunkerrush when I gather 3 marines at his base, if not, harras with 3+ marines till speed finishes) I tend to transition into dual-factory BFhelions to take back mapcontrol from the zerg and if posible roast some drones. Usually this makes the zerg either go for roaches, or get few spines. I just try not to lose the helions since they can both stop ling-bane all-ins and scout roach allins in time to bunker up maybe get few tanks in time I than transition into marine tank and try to set a position on a map I will deffend, using drops to denie expansions, and scout for hive tech, and controling creep spread. QXC has been using snipe vs brood lords but I still havent addapted to that, so I tend to use more vikings. I tend to use more bio in larger maps, to keep mobile, while producing off just 1 Factory and focusing more on preassuring with bio while establishing a containing position. I have been using Bunkers and turrets to fortify positions. and use small pushes or drops to denie bases Nomatter the opener, a terran must protect his siegetanks vs Muta builds, and fortify forward positions with turrets and bunkers (ex. Xel'Naga Tower in Xelnaga Cavern, oposite side from gold base) You need to exploit the deffencive aspect of the Terran race to compensate for the mobility of Zerg armies. Also remember that that if the Zerg goes for Infestors-roach to secure his base instead of teching to Mutas, they give up mapcontrol for safety of their current bases, so you can take another base freely and saturate, so you can keep up with zerg on bases, maybe even out-base him aslong as you keep the helions alive As for builds being figured out, good terrans know the zerg builds aswell. - 2rax is great for preasuring or shitting down a hatch-first, but needs to be microed corectlly (above on how I proceed) - Reactor-helion into banshee is great vs speedlings first, forsing roaches hopefully, delaying tech, and hopefully do alot of damage with cloacked banshees. if so the Terran is ahead and free to make a marine-tank push off of 2 base. and take a third behind it. than transition normally into the mid-late game - 1-Rax expand is usually where I do a BFHelion transition after expanding to take mapcontrol, mass-upgrade bio, and either make a marine-helion-thor 2base push with 2/2 or play standard marine-tank like a 2rax, just have faster upgrades for my bio. The thing you have to addapt to with the Infestor play is to not clump up large bio balls, and poke with small groups of marines and spread out, and Bunkers are a Marines best friend. Also you can discover timings when you can attack by watching your replay and seeing when does the Zerg heavy droning. Stim timing pushes, helion-marine pushes, marine-siegetank pushes if properly executed hit in such timings My biggest issue that I have so far is with a baneling bust off of 2 hatch, secound hatch in expo only for larva and to fool the terran that there is a standard hatch with speed first, but thats a scouting issue I have, if I just hide an scv near-by and check if there are drones in the expo after it finishes, I can prepare to it and not try to blind-deffend it every time. Again, I recomend you watch those VoDs, they explain most things alot better than me. Hope this helps you | ||
|
Daniel C
Hong Kong1606 Posts
Both hatch first and gas-pool-hatch first builds can lead to roaches, it's a soft counter to reactor hellion and 1 rax FE but the problem is they can scout YOUR build easily but you can't scout their roaches after 2 lings are out? Help please! (masters T) | ||
|
Skew
United States1020 Posts
| ||
|
Xanczor
United States254 Posts
| ||
|
Raid
United States398 Posts
On May 20 2011 09:11 WinteRR wrote: I'm pretty sure to kill one Broodlord from one ghost you need 12 snipes? I Somehow don't think thats the most efficient way to deal with them. Not even going to consider ultras (EMP is obviously great for infestors though). Atm, I think the best way to win is to harass early, get to 2 bases quickly, then do everything in your power to stop the Z getting their 3rd up. Its when they get a 3 base economy things start to go downhill, fast. I've rarely seen any top T's go for pure mech vs Z since the new patch, infestors just hard-counter it perfectly whilst not even considering NP (which is amazing). The best way to go is for marine/tank/medivac with 1-2 thor support for mutas. It sounded dumb to me at first when idra was talking about it and then I saw it and tested it and approved its now my favorite choice.. Before doubting it I suggest watching the crap I tell you to watch and then voice your opinion because obviously you never tried it. | ||
|
MyZioN
Sweden46 Posts
we have to do just as the Z's, adapt, by adapting I mean cheese the living hell outta that Z! | ||
|
Serge89
Belgium38 Posts
The only counter is infestors with NP. | ||
|
dere
United States153 Posts
On May 20 2011 19:57 Skew wrote: TvZ is about applying enough pressure early so that a follow-up attack can be successful. If you aren't able to, you lose. IMO it's the easiest matchup to understand but the hardest to win. This is possibly the most true post in this thread. | ||
|
Breach_hu
Hungary2431 Posts
On big maps i usually go for 1rax expand into mass marine tank starting with early tanks (if i sniff some chance for highecon banebust) or a fast reactor SP for a dual medivac combatshield+1armor drop. After that im hoping for a good position and i rely on my micro (which fails many many times:D) to fight down the Z. (1.3k masters terran) On May 20 2011 23:26 dere wrote: This is possibly the most true post in this thread. +1 | ||
|
Pixel.
Netherlands287 Posts
Here is a replay of it http://www.sc2rep.com/replays/download/id/8487 (The terran is a high GM) | ||
|
butchji
Germany1531 Posts
On May 20 2011 08:56 oo inflame oo wrote: only 2 viable ways really (that aren't cheesy) 1) Hyper aggression 2) Turtle Hyper Aggression means 2 rax on medium sized maps, and 1 rax fe into helion, 16 stimmed marine drop, tank push, banshees, etc on large maps. You want to make the zerg scared shitless, and I mean this. You don't want him to even consider the possibility of sending his mutalisks to harrass your base because he may outright lose. You don't want him to have the time to mass broodlords. Drop 2-3 locations at once, while pushing the middle and killing creep tumors, before sieging his natural. Run some blue flame helions to his mineral line. Just make his life hell. For turtling, you want it half map vs half map. Terran on 4 bases can turtle against Zerg on infinity bases. Bunkers, turrets, and Planetary fortresses are your friend. The key to turtling is to always have your army in a good location and to never be caught unseiged. Have vikings in time for his broods. With vikings, Zerg cannot engage a siegetank and bunker position without being extremely cost inefficient. Your deathball > his deathball. After the big battle, he will mass units, probably lings or if he has enough minerals ultras or anything that will counter your army. Set up a contain, siege your tanks, build some bunkers. And even if he remaxes instantly your smaller army will be able to do work. I don't think it's possible to turtle versus a good zerg who makes broodlords. Thors don't do damage to Broodlords Marines get fungaled when approaching the broodlords. Vikings get fungaled when approaching the broodlords. So I guess the only possible way is Ghost snipe versus broodlord? I'm not sure how good it is to be honest and I can't remember seeing it at any pro game. I think most pros agree that the only way to win versus a zerg is to get an advantage with the first push and then denying the Zerg to get a good broodlord/infestor count (maybe comparable to Zerg vs Protoss Ball?). Maybe someone can tell me anything a T can do versus Broodlord/infestor combination. Appreciated. | ||
|
deepfield1
United States373 Posts
It has been rough since the Infestor change. Infestors combined with Broodlords are almost impossible to deal with. I think PainUser summed it up nicely on Inside the Game. He stated that basically you need to have a really sick tank / marine timing push and DO damage. If zerg destroys this first push without taking heavy losses (losing drones) you are pretty much fucked. | ||
|
Pixel.
Netherlands287 Posts
On May 21 2011 00:00 deepfield1 wrote: ~1200 masters. It has been rough since the Infestor change. Infestors combined with Broodlords are almost impossible to deal with. I think PainUser summed it up nicely on Inside the Game. He stated that basically you need to have a really sick tank / marine timing push and DO damage. If zerg destroys this first push without taking heavy losses (losing drones) you are pretty much fucked. U know ghost counter them both, Alot of terran go lately ghost heavy. Snipe for broodlord and emp for infestors. | ||
|
NeonFox
2373 Posts
If the zerg doesn't know what the terran is doing, he can't drone massively and take the eco advantage, the only way to regain map control is to wait until mutas so he has to play safe until then. I'd try to take advantage of that to expand and put production facilities down. | ||
|
Rexar123
Croatia49 Posts
but if oponent goes for broodlords u need to make atleast some vikings | ||
|
starcraft911
Korea (South)1263 Posts
Do economic damage early and often. You can't make scv as fast as a zerg can drone so you need to use your army units to trade for their worker units. It's pretty common sense, but a lot of people seem to forget this. For example, a bunker rush is almost always effective in TvZ. Even if the bunker dies and all the marines die the terran should always do more damage than the losses they incur. Marines can kite the drones very well and if the bunker goes up you're looking at forcing a lot of lings. Additionally, a fake bunker rush works well too. Get them to pull their drones and it only costs you 25 minerals... good trade imo. | ||
|
Ineffability~
84 Posts
| ||
|
BigJoe
United States210 Posts
On May 20 2011 04:52 eXwOn wrote: You need to learn to effectively sim city across the entire map, here's a screenshot of one of my latest games in a TvZ ![[image loading]](http://oi54.tinypic.com/2h5uqa9.jpg) This is simply amazing. I dont know why I never thought of doing a sim city across the entire map. I would def say this is one of the more easier maps to do it on though. What in the world would you din Tal'darim Altar? T_T Do you have success doing this on other maps? | ||
| ||
