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Ok this is what i do mid late game. Im 800 masters so nothing great, but i think it works.
I open reactor hellion, slightly delayed so you get a faster CC like:
12rax
2 marines total
13 gas
15 OC
16 depot
factory as soon as gas allows
then reactor with your next 50 gas
CC
depot
swap the rax and fact
pump 4 hellions
add another barracks get stim and siege mode and a pretty late starport
at 8:00 get an ebay and turrets if hes going mutas (pretty rare nowadays)
- at finish +1 attack, also get armory for +1 attack
get 3 siege tanks and push and rally your medivac
add CC and try to punish his third,
now add another (4th) baracks and put from now on all your money in additional factories, so your getting increasingly mech heavy as the game processes. Works pretty well, since mech marine medivac (thats right MMM) just owns. You can harras with BFH and marines, and you have a superpowerfull army.
I havent really experienced with heavy ghost play yet, but if your just going to emp you want only
2-3 ghosts, since you cant really emp every fungal out of them anyway, you CAN greatly limit their fungals. But vs Blords so far i just went vikings.
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I just tried a new build and lately beeing really successfull with it.
13rax
14gas
orbital when rax finishes
rax techlab
reaper
2nd rax
then u just go 2rax reaper and try to harass his expansion and maybe get a bunker if not you normally can do enough damage to his economy/reduce ling number/kill queens to make it worth it...
While you harass with your reapers u get ur cc up in your main, add 3 barracks tech stim and combat shields and then do a stim timing push with mass rines.. normally he A) is going T2 for Muta B) is being ultra greedy and think you tech C)Gone for roaches with is pretty bad against stim timing push
But overall in 8 of 10 games he cant hold the stim timing push if you done enough dmg with your reapers...
I know this build is kinda allinnish but i think if the zerg really abuses infestors its kinda freewin for zerg... (Infestors Roach Broodlords abuse..)
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On May 22 2011 06:27 cUree wrote:
I just tried a new build and lately beeing really successfull with it.
13rax
14gas
orbital when rax finishes
rax techlab
reaper
2nd rax
then u just go 2rax reaper and try to harass his expansion and maybe get a bunker if not you normally can do enough damage to his economy/reduce ling number/kill queens to make it worth it...
While you harass with your reapers u get ur cc up in your main, add 3 barracks tech stim and combat shields and then do a stim timing push with mass rines.. normally he A) is going T2 for Muta B) is being ultra greedy and think you tech C)Gone for roaches with is pretty bad against stim timing push
But overall in 8 of 10 games he cant hold the stim timing push if you done enough dmg with your reapers...
I know this build is kinda allinnish but i think if the zerg really abuses infestors its kinda freewin for zerg... (Infestors Roach Broodlords abuse..) Except, vs a spanishwa type build you're going to be hard pressed to do anything after the reapers in my mind. The infestors come WAY too early in the ice fisher.
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Terran according to the zerg is imba...............................................................................................................................................................................................right? i guess its balanced when they fungal your marines and 2/3 of them die then they dont even need lings or blings to kill the tanks.
also its awesome how they can double expand after smashing your 10 minute push w/o the terran being able to punish the zerg at all.
Might as well GG after the 15 minute mark. T_T
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I started playing terran, as I main toss, and I can easily beat zergs around 1200 master. Usually I just go for gasless FE into tanks and well upgraded marines. The key is to split your army well and a good turret positioning. When your marines are like 2-2 and you have thors and like 10 tanks, it's very hard for zerg to compete if you have been actively dropping and denying expansions. I'll upload replays later when I'm home.
EDIT: I forgot to say, as a Toss I find terran to be very fragile, and because of that you have to read your opponent very well with constant scouting. You never want to "test the waters" out of your base and be caught by an army you had no idea existed. If you want to do this the best way would be to slow push out with tanks, but I don't recommend it. A good idea is also to abuse early drop play since mutas come out after medivacs. Keep track of the spire progress and do good damage with drops. Speshal tectics.
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On June 10 2011 02:19 v1n1z1o wrote:
Terran according to the zerg is imba...............................................................................................................................................................................................right? i guess its balanced when they fungal your marines and 2/3 of them die then they dont even need lings or blings to kill the tanks.
also its awesome how they can double expand after smashing your 10 minute push w/o the terran being able to punish the zerg at all.
Might as well GG after the 15 minute mark. T_T
Or you can open a mlg replay pack, download the replays of mma crushing faces of every zerg at the event with ease, and learn how to play properly rather then balance whine.
It actually might help your game to not complain so much and rather find the flaws of your game instead. Odds are there's a lot to work with.
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On June 10 2011 02:23 kaztah wrote:Show nested quote +On June 10 2011 02:19 v1n1z1o wrote:
Terran according to the zerg is imba...............................................................................................................................................................................................right? i guess its balanced when they fungal your marines and 2/3 of them die then they dont even need lings or blings to kill the tanks.
also its awesome how they can double expand after smashing your 10 minute push w/o the terran being able to punish the zerg at all.
Might as well GG after the 15 minute mark. T_T Or you can open a mlg replay pack, download the replays of mma crushing faces of every zerg at the event with ease, and learn how to play properly rather then balance whine. It actually might help your game to not complain so much and rather find the flaws of your game instead. Odds are there's a lot to work with.
Yes, because it's easy to play like MMA. Constant drops in proper positions, push and outmicro the other player. MMA showed what I think every terran knew: if you play 100% amazing, you will win in TvZ.
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On June 10 2011 02:28 manicshock wrote:Show nested quote +On June 10 2011 02:23 kaztah wrote:On June 10 2011 02:19 v1n1z1o wrote:
Terran according to the zerg is imba...............................................................................................................................................................................................right? i guess its balanced when they fungal your marines and 2/3 of them die then they dont even need lings or blings to kill the tanks.
also its awesome how they can double expand after smashing your 10 minute push w/o the terran being able to punish the zerg at all.
Might as well GG after the 15 minute mark. T_T Or you can open a mlg replay pack, download the replays of mma crushing faces of every zerg at the event with ease, and learn how to play properly rather then balance whine. It actually might help your game to not complain so much and rather find the flaws of your game instead. Odds are there's a lot to work with. Yes, because it's easy to play like MMA. Constant drops in proper positions, push and outmicro the other player. MMA showed what I think every terran knew: if you play 100% amazing, you will win in TvZ.
Hehe so true. You literally have to play perfect to win TvZ on large maps: can't push, can't harass, can't macro.... what the fuck am I supposed to do.
Here's what I recommend to all my terran brothers. If you scout x-positions on a map like taldarim, one rax expand into whatever timing push build you like, then send every scv along with it. You're good as dead anyway if a push fails against Z on a big map, might as well send scvs with it and make your push have a somewhat better chance.
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Using MMA is a terrible example. its like saying idra vs drewbie no offense to drewbie, but idra is on another level. MMA is just on another level than Most zerg in the tournament except for losira.
Also I've trained with my team for 2 weeks nonstop tvz just so i wont die to zergs in tournaments or on ladder ect. did me no good.
no matter how much i train all the zerg needs to do is come out ahead in the first push and then he has free map control the terran cant be agressive at all with drops because if his first push gets smashed then he needs to build up another push and save marines to support the tanks. also no to mention mutas snipe the medivacs. There is almost no way to win if you fuck up in the slightest way in tvz. unless the zerg goes afk i dont see many terrans coming back after a food deficit......
im not bitching that its imbalanced really, the match up is really fucking hard. I used to be random masters and I switched to terran in hopes of improving my mechanics. I cant tell you Zerg was BY FAR the easiest race for me to play.You can make so many mistakes with Z mid game and still wint the game. It seems a little unfair that if a zerg tries to baneling bust or flies 8 mutas into missile turrets and 3-4 end up dying when if a terran loses 2 tanks or a a couple of marines he has to play defensive or his push is delayed by a whole two minutes. In those two minutes imagine how much the zerg can drone up off 3 bases?
there is no room for punishment in tvz for terran. but the zerg can play sloppy and still come out ahead. doesnt make sense to me.
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On June 10 2011 02:28 manicshock wrote:Show nested quote +On June 10 2011 02:23 kaztah wrote:On June 10 2011 02:19 v1n1z1o wrote:
Terran according to the zerg is imba...............................................................................................................................................................................................right? i guess its balanced when they fungal your marines and 2/3 of them die then they dont even need lings or blings to kill the tanks.
also its awesome how they can double expand after smashing your 10 minute push w/o the terran being able to punish the zerg at all.
Might as well GG after the 15 minute mark. T_T Or you can open a mlg replay pack, download the replays of mma crushing faces of every zerg at the event with ease, and learn how to play properly rather then balance whine. It actually might help your game to not complain so much and rather find the flaws of your game instead. Odds are there's a lot to work with. Yes, because it's easy to play like MMA. Constant drops in proper positions, push and outmicro the other player. MMA showed what I think every terran knew: if you play 100% amazing, you will win in TvZ.
^^^^ thats my exact point you have to play 100% to win tvz....zergs dont really need to do much. just smash attacks and expand while denying bases... ez pz.
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It's easy. Combine Nada's macro, Marinekingprime's micro, MVP's starsense, and MMA's multitasking and you can easily beat any Zerg you face.
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Hey, just by reading your op I think your a little narrow minded as in not going Bellini because they adapt. What I see is you can go blue flame into tanks marine fairly easily. You can expand behind blue flame aswell. 2 rax bunker a hatch first it cause direct and indirect damage to Zerg. Also committing to a time push is very effective because you can catch them droneing. Try going at like 10 as zergs drone around this time for their 3rd.
Just some little tips hope it helps 
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On June 10 2011 02:40 lorkac wrote:
It's easy. Combine Nada's macro, Marinekingprime's micro, MVP's starsense, and MMA's multitasking and you can easily beat any Zerg you face.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^Flash Incoming???? 
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On June 10 2011 02:53 v1n1z1o wrote:Show nested quote +On June 10 2011 02:40 lorkac wrote:
It's easy. Combine Nada's macro, Marinekingprime's micro, MVP's starsense, and MMA's multitasking and you can easily beat any Zerg you face. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^Flash Incoming????
Hehe good to know I need to be flash to beat average pub zergs
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no actually you need to be better than flash to beat an averga zerg ^.^
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I personally don't believe that TvZ is my strongest matchup atm, I'm kinda failing in all three to be honest, with around a 50/50 win rate in all matchups, losing due to really horrible decision making or lettings lings into my base, however my TvZ isn't too bad, and I feel that I know how I'm supposed to play the matchup, even if i can't execute it perfectly every time.
Basically the idea of playing a marine tank style in TvZ is that you can protect your marines from roaches banelings infestors and zerglings, so maintaining a high tank count is key, best accomplished by leap frogging slowly, only pushing when you have the scarier army, and expanding behind your pushes. Basically the easiest way to play TvZ is to just go for a super scary 2 base timing while taking a third. A very solid build vs the heavy muta ling play that is becoming more popular, is to go for a double +2 attack tank marine thor with a couple medivacs and a raven, you hit with 2 thors, 8-10 tanks, and a ton of marines with stim combat sheilds and 3-5 medivacs. It is a very solid 3 factory build.
The most solid opener is to open with a 2 rax, there are a ton of variations of this build, but my 2 favorites are 11/12 on small maps, and 12/14 on large maps, both allow for lots of pressure, force lots of lings, and threaten an all-in at any moment in the early game against hatch first. You can safely expand and tech behind it, and force enough units to the front that you can get a good read on the zerg's opening, allowing you to take a fast third if zerg is playing the spine/queen game, or prep for a kyrix bust with hellions or tanks.
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After reading some posts above, I do have to say that I agree with you that if the zerg doesn't screw up their drone timings and just plays a good safe game with lots of scouting and expanding, then they will win without much effort, and if the terran makes a mistake with micro, macro, positioning, sim city, scouting, expansion timing, it's super easy for zerg to abuse it and get wayyyy ahead or come back, however the flipside is that if you deny scouting and do a scary timing push, you have the chance to catch the zerg offguard in the early-mid game. If you manage to go into the mid game in TvZ without being behind, then it's fairly easy to win with marine tank (read: doable). If you go into the midgame with a disadvantage, then you will most likely lose due to the extreme mechanics of zerg (they can make 20 drones at once if you lose your army advantage, or make 8 infestors and crush any marine based army you send at them, or both at once).
Anyways, good luck with your TvZ, try out some of these strats, copy some pro builds, and let us know how it goes (read: replays).
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I think all of us T's have a hard time. I am also around 1000 master and yes its a hard matchup. One point I will make is that there is no way around taking big risks. If you watch MMA's play, many of those drops were very risky, and many of them got shot down. He looked very far behind many times and finally one of those drops killed 20 drones and a hatch, and he got back in it.
Basically, if you cant multitask very well and are not willing to take risks that can lose you the game, I dont think you can win. There is no "safe" TvZ, at least not one that can win the game.
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i also have tons of trouble vs zerg but im trying a hellion thor marauder scv all in where i hit before broodlords and its given me some success!
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Post some replays of you losing so we can help you improve. As a Diamond Zerg, I lose alot to Terran drop harass. But posting replays will allow us to point your mistakes.
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EPT
