EPTEG launch $10,000 Master's Cup Series League - Page 20
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hinnolinn
212 Posts
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dtz
5834 Posts
On May 02 2011 17:20 Liquid`Jinro wrote: Wait, why do we have an advantage in ace matches? Why is there more lag? There is not more lag, the lag is just distributed between more players. OK so theres 8 teams, so we would have played 7 matches. Lets say we use one kor player per game. So every week we have 1 laggy bo3, and KOR player has played 7 laggy series, lets say they all ended 2-0 in whatever favor, so 14 games. If we do the 50/50 solution, the KOR player has still played 7 laggy series, but only 7 laggy games. From each team we played, they will have had 1 player who had to play 1 laggy game. For the viewer the quality is unchanged. The advantage in ace matches is because no one knows before hand who will play against who. So no telling what server it will be played on. That's why every NA player from your opposition need to practice for all 3 server while from liquid, only 2 maximum. NA + home country. Lets say liquid vs dignitas. If it comes to ace, Select needs to prepare na kr eu because he doesnt know who he will play against. if its ret, he plays na eu. if tyler na only. if haypro/huk / you then its na kr. so he has to train all 3 server. Whereas for Tyler , he only need to train for 2 region ( na eu) because dignitas only has na + eu players. It does not affect EU player because he only need to train 2 region ( NA , EU) while KR player only need to train KR , NA. Small thing of course but still there nonetheless | ||
Liquid`Jinro
Sweden33719 Posts
On May 02 2011 17:18 Hatorade wrote: How would you determine the server for the 3rd game in the bo3 or the 3 bo1s? Also with 2v2s being thrown into the mix you could potentially have players from all 3 regions playing at once. Implementing the TSL server rules into this type of league would definitely be tough to do. I honestly dont care how you determine the 3rd set - if you want to give a homecourt advantage, that is fine (maybe you could figure out some way to make it so each team has 50% home-court games), if you want to flip a coin thats fine, if you want to give it to the NA player at all times that is also fine, because even though "thats not fair" its still less unfair than the original situation. On May 02 2011 17:28 dtz wrote: The advantage in ace matches is because no one knows before hand who will play against who. So no telling what server it will be played on. That's why every NA player from your opposition need to practice for all 3 server while from liquid, only 2 maximum. NA + home country. Lets say liquid vs dignitas. If it comes to ace, Select needs to prepare na kr eu because he doesnt know who he will play against. if its ret, he plays na eu. if tyler na only. if haypro/huk / you then its na kr. so he has to train all 3 server. Whereas for Tyler , he only need to train for 2 region ( na eu) because dignitas only has na + eu players. You make it sound like you have to train for it hard or something, just play a few games so its not the first time you play on the server =.= I play games on NA, KR and China, all 3 have different delays and it does not throw me off that badly nowadays. | ||
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nihlon
Sweden5581 Posts
On May 02 2011 17:26 firehand101 wrote: 2v2 is somewhat entertaining, and i'm sure it is very exciting for many people. But trying to get blizzard to balance that is just plain impossible. Maybe it does have a place in tourneys, but not as a main event. Maybe as fun for the spectators pre-tourney they could have random pros teaming up to showcase crazy tactics! eg. MC and Julyzerg vs Idra and HuK ! lol I think 2v2 can be reasonable balanced with the right kind of maps. Unfortunatly most of blizzard maps sucks and the community 2v2 maps haven't yet reached that level yet generally. | ||
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Skipton
United States707 Posts
On May 02 2011 17:26 dAPhREAk wrote: not sure how that even relates. how are you going to do a ffa in a team league? i am also ignoring the fact that ffa games don't reflect skill as it has more to do with luck than anything else. 2v2 is entertaining, involves well developed skills and strategies, and fits with a team league. The concept is the same. The skill required in a 1v1 situation is based solely on yourself. 2v2 has to many variables to incorporate it into a competitive environment successfully. 1v1 leagues have always been the most successful and benefits both the spectator and the player more. | ||
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utyske
Denmark185 Posts
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hinnolinn
212 Posts
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Liquid`Jinro
Sweden33719 Posts
On May 02 2011 17:27 hinnolinn wrote: Will this apply to future TLOpens and the like? If a US player enters the EU Open can they expect to play the even numbered games against an EU opponent on the US server? I dont think its realistic for an open tournament, until Blizzard lets you switch between servers. In an open tournament you will have too many players without US/EU accounts, whereas in a smaller, invitational league like this we can easily accomodate anyyone without one. | ||
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dAPhREAk
Nauru12397 Posts
On May 02 2011 17:26 firehand101 wrote: 2v2 is somewhat entertaining, and i'm sure it is very exciting for many people. But trying to get blizzard to balance that is just plain impossible. Maybe it does have a place in tourneys, but not as a main event. Maybe as fun for the spectators pre-tourney they could have random pros teaming up to showcase crazy tactics! eg. MC and Julyzerg vs Idra and HuK ! lol well, blizzard is never going to balance the game around 2v2. there may be some perceived overpowered strategies, but both teams can put up the same races for those strats, which takes the imbalance away. people enjoy watching 2v2 and adding one game in a team league isn't going to break the system. there are dozens of tournaments for 1v1, some of us would like to see 2v2 once in awhile. also, if you put it as a pre-show, it takes the competitive edge away, and people stop taking it seriously. | ||
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nihlon
Sweden5581 Posts
On May 02 2011 17:27 hinnolinn wrote: Will this apply to future TLOpens and the like? If a US player enters the EU Open can they expect to play the even numbered games against an EU opponent on the US server? Having a 1000 player open qualifier is a little bit different no? They had both EU and NA qualifiers to make it more fair. Please think a little. | ||
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dtz
5834 Posts
On May 02 2011 17:31 hinnolinn wrote: You have one player from each team in the FFA. The winner gets an additional point towards their score for that week :D. That's how you do a team league FFA. Oo yeahh this is good idea. Approved. Maybe not a point but some sort of tiebreaker if some teams end up with the same score =D. Better than flipping a coin | ||
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Naniwa
Sweden477 Posts
:< | ||
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Aphasie
Norway474 Posts
This the maxim i seem to hear more and more, especially at Sotg, and i think its a dangerous path to take. The belief fosters and leans to the same kind of unobtainable optimism that any dogma "of universal fairness, international brotherhood of all men, etc." It clearly doesnt take into consideration the regional interests, not only in marketing (i.e. prize pool) but also for a reason as simple as timezones. Any match scheduled on any continent has a high chance to mess up a whole day or the sleep of a progamer. I think it works for now, but over time most people wont get up at 5 in the morning to play a game 10+ weeks in a row. And if people truly want esports to succeed worldwide, each region has to be able to sustain it own market. Its only natural that NA should have bias towards NA and so on. We clearly see this in KR where even though foreigners can hold their own, unlike bw, its market is clearly autonomous and self-sustaining. My impression is at least that all participation by KRs internationally is viewed as a bonus (prizes), rather than hopes for a "truly international esports". I might be mistaken though. This affects my stance on this issue. I truly commend TL for taking a stand on the principle and sticking with it. It shows character, and the argument from both players and mods has been an argument for perfection, rather than feeling badly treated. However i feel the way EG (and associated projects) caters their domestic market and needs is the right way to approach the issue. They're basically saying "We're doing this thing this way, we'd be very happy if you'd join us." TL with its 3 players, declined. Sixjax (artosis) and fnatic (sen) agreed. I also have to agree with drewbies notion that (harder) global participation is an evil that comes with the benefits that KR gives. EU players constantly play at a disadvantage too (seeing that almost all major EU events are offline, so every participant plays with the same latency.) If your stance is that Sc2 should only/prioritize being truly international TL has the right idea. If you think its regional EG has made the right decision. And lets face it, korea in general will most certainly choose the latter. So a region thats centered around the domestic market will give a comparative benefit when it comes to tourneys if the other markets are trying to accommodate everyone. So in my eyes three separate regions that still open up to the others is the way to approach things. Yes the "home team" will have an advantage, but so does every home team on average in every other sport. Its a part of the game. I mean, we'er all ready seeing so many big competitions that it cant house every good player/players simply doesnt have the time. | ||
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Skipton
United States707 Posts
On May 02 2011 17:31 dAPhREAk wrote: well, blizzard is never going to balance the game around 2v2. there may be some perceived overpowered strategies, but both teams can put up the same races for those strats, which takes the imbalance away. people enjoy watching 2v2 and adding one game in a team league isn't going to break the system. there are dozens of tournaments for 1v1, some of us would like to see 2v2 once in awhile. also, if you put it as a pre-show, it takes the competitive edge away, and people stop taking it seriously. The format is not built around competition so it's hard to say if it has a competitive edge in the first place. It is highly possible for the majority of the games in the league to end on the 2v2 match, instead of the ace match. This will cause more harm than good to the league. | ||
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hinnolinn
212 Posts
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Shana
Indonesia1814 Posts
On topic: I think switching server is a lot better than playing on US only. If you take poll from other EU teams I'm sure they'll be happy to switching servers vs NA players. | ||
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Hatorade
299 Posts
On May 02 2011 17:31 hinnolinn wrote: You have one player from each team in the FFA. The winner gets an additional point towards their score for that week :D. That's how you do a team league FFA. Yeah but everyone would kill the player from the first place team first  I like the 2v2s W3CL was awesome for wc3 and had 2v2 in their format. Maybe if 2v2 is played at a higher level it will encourage blizzard or other map creators to create stronger maps for it to help out with the balance. I think its fun and refreshing to watch from a viewer standpoint and ultimately gets a broader range of people interested in the league. I have plenty of friends that are too afraid to solo but loooove playing team games and I'm sure they'd enjoy watching some pro players play 2v2. | ||
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infinity2k9
United Kingdom2397 Posts
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hinnolinn
212 Posts
On May 02 2011 17:40 Hatorade wrote: Yeah but everyone would kill the player from the first place team first I like the 2v2s W3CL was awesome for wc3 and had 2v2 in their format. Maybe if 2v2 is played at a higher level it will encourage blizzard or other map creators to create stronger maps for it to help out with the balance. I think its fun and refreshing to watch from a viewer standpoint and ultimately gets a broader range of people interested in the league. I have plenty of friends that are too afraid to solo but loooove playing team games and I'm sure they'd enjoy watching some pro players play 2v2. Have each team own an account with a common name, so you have 8 ESPORTS playing in the FFA, and don't allow in game chat except for asking for pause. I'm not really advocating for an FFA, just trying to find solutions. | ||
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dAPhREAk
Nauru12397 Posts
On May 02 2011 17:36 Skipton wrote: The format is not built around competition so it's hard to say if it has a competitive edge in the first place. It is highly possible for the majority of the games in the league to end on the 2v2 match, instead of the ace match. This will cause more harm than good to the league. On May 02 2011 17:29 Skipton wrote: The concept is the same. The skill required in a 1v1 situation is based solely on yourself. 2v2 has to many variables to incorporate it into a competitive environment successfully. 1v1 leagues have always been the most successful and benefits both the spectator and the player more. I am not exactly sure what you are saying. 2v2 is very competitive and there are top level players consistently on the top of the master's league who play each other and refine their builds. i have even played eg's axslav and strifecro in 2v2. it is obviously not the same as 1v1 because it relies on team play, but just because its not the same as 1v1 doesn't mean its not somehow a competitive part of sc2. also, 2v2 has recently got a lot of attention because of day9's showcase this last week. watching 2v2 is an untapped resource for leagues in my opinion. | ||
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